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hf top 50 nhl prospects and some observations.

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Old
10-21-2010, 12:06 PM
  #26
Beacon
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At the end of his "great success" in the juniors, I posted that it was nothing special, that it's not as if he scored 100 points on his own, that 80 points with great linemates can be had. I got yelled at by the whole without anyone siding with me.


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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Honestly, I have never seen the appeal of Grachev.

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10-21-2010, 12:07 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
yeah... you know what, you're right. what does a site called "hockeys future" know about nhl prospects... good call.

make sure you let leslie treff know how much you appreciate what she does because you just called out the staff at hf for knowing nothing....

shes on the hf staff, along with others who watch each team individually. do you really believe these people know nothing about their respective teams prospects and that the top 50 list, unless developed by "pro scouts", is just made up without merit ?

if you listened to leslie for even 5 minutes, you would know that shes about as sharp and informed as anyone on the prospects at hartford. im sure she had alot of input on the 3 ranger players.

so that alone makes your argument pretty much, well.... bogus.

then again, sounds like you prefer to get your prospect info standing around the koolaide kegger hosted by the msg network.
I appreciate what Leslie and the rest of the HF Staff does here, but that does not mean that I value their opinions on players and prospects more than I value a scouts opinion.

Most scouts have been involved with NHL calibre players for YEARS longer than HF has been around. Alot of them are former players that understand what it takes to be players in the NHL. What to look for in players beyond just their ability to play the game.

Again, if I spoke ot Leslie for 15 minutes about the kids on the farm, and then spoke to an actual scout for 15 minutes on those same people, I have no doubt that I would gain great knowledge from both, I just also have no doubt that I would gain more from the scout.

But, you can drink the HF koolaide. That's cool. I'll trust actual scouts, you can trust the fans that work here.

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Old
10-21-2010, 12:14 PM
  #28
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Grachev was certainly over-hyped, but he certainly wasn't a product of his teammates either. Plenty of his success was a direct result of his own skill level.

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10-21-2010, 12:18 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
McIlrath is very raw overall. That said, he has tremendous upside. Not being on the list doesn't surprise me.
This.

The Wrath of Dylan may or may not pan out, but it's exactly the kind of player we need on defense. He's a punisher, he clears the crease, he lets the offensive guy player. Paging Jeff Beukeboom.

If Del Zotto knows anything about the Leetch-Beuk pairing, he should re-watch the Rangers drafting The Wrath and salivate every time.

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10-21-2010, 01:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I appreciate what Leslie and the rest of the HF Staff does here, but that does not mean that I value their opinions on players and prospects more than I value a scouts opinion.

Most scouts have been involved with NHL calibre players for YEARS longer than HF has been around. Alot of them are former players that understand what it takes to be players in the NHL. What to look for in players beyond just their ability to play the game.

Again, if I spoke ot Leslie for 15 minutes about the kids on the farm, and then spoke to an actual scout for 15 minutes on those same people, I have no doubt that I would gain great knowledge from both, I just also have no doubt that I would gain more from the scout.

But, you can drink the HF koolaide. That's cool. I'll trust actual scouts, you can trust the fans that work here.
agree on some points, but then again players arent always the best evaluators of talent either (just look at all the players that have failed miserably as GM's, coaches, etc. and this goes for ALL sports)

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Old
10-21-2010, 01:03 PM
  #31
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I cannot believe they would put Grabner in the top-50 a few days after he was waived. What a joke! Top-50 prospects do not get waived.

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10-21-2010, 01:10 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
I don't get why saying McIlraith has more to prove than Fowler is negative. McIlraith was known to be a reach who, with his physical attributes, may develop into something special if his game develops. And he may not if it doesn't.

That means he has something to prove.

Sounds like you have negativity toward Fowler, however. 11 other teams saw something they didn't like in Fowler? That's ridiculous. Edmonton drafted Taylor Hall because they didn't like Fowler? Boston drafted Tyler Seguin because they didn't like Fowler? And so on?
Please. Even you know how silly that is.
To be fair you are nitpicking the hell outta that statement. We all know Fowler fell and was thought to be the most likely to go at 3. When he says 11 he's in error he should have said 9 but you should be able to recognize he made a simple error saying 11 instead of 9.

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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
At the end of his "great success" in the juniors, I posted that it was nothing special, that it's not as if he scored 100 points on his own, that 80 points with great linemates can be had. I got yelled at by the whole without anyone siding with me.
At the same time that you were smart enough to be tempered with grachev's big season you shoulda also been smart enough to realize the type of backlash you would get at that point. Depends how exactly you said it too. Until you actually post the exact quote you said I can't make a judgement about whether you were right or wrong at the time. Maybe you said it in such a jerk way that you earned the "venom of the boards". I of course have no clue, I wasn't there about what you said so I am not calling you a jerk at all.

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10-21-2010, 01:17 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
At the same time that you were smart enough to be tempered with grachev's big season you shoulda also been smart enough to realize the type of backlash you would get at that point. Depends how exactly you said it too. Until you actually post the exact quote you said I can't make a judgement about whether you were right or wrong at the time. Maybe you said it in such a jerk way that you earned the "venom of the boards". I of course have no clue, I wasn't there about what you said so I am not calling you a jerk at all.
No offense, but why comment in that case? Pointless.

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10-21-2010, 01:19 PM
  #34
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Grachev needs time to develop, the big guys usually take a little longer. How old is this kid 20? And every other person here wants to call bust? Pathetic.

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Old
10-21-2010, 01:21 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
At the end of his "great success" in the juniors, I posted that it was nothing special, that it's not as if he scored 100 points on his own, that 80 points with great linemates can be had. I got yelled at by the whole without anyone siding with me.
I think I remember when you were posting that about Grachev.. but at that time, the Grachev hype machine was in full force. He was very shiny back then.

I still believe Grachev has the potential to make it in the NHL.. He has great size and is a real good skater. It is up to Grachev now to do whatever it takes to make it and stick in the NHL.

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
Grachev needs time to develop, the big guys usually take a little longer. How old is this kid 20? And every other person here wants to call bust? Pathetic.
To be in the top 50 prospects--you've got to be pretty much on the cusp or within a year or so of making it. At the moment Grachev's progress appears to have stalled. With his size--we should be looking at a budding power forward. 1 point in his last 30 or so games last year and hardly off to a big start this year. On the few occasions that I watched the Pack last year he was pretty much invisible or seemed lost. He wasn't using his size--which is a major asset for him. And a big guy is not going to be a power forward unless he does. The 14 pm in 80 games is telling. Playing the power game is simplifying things in a way. Charging into the corners. Crashing the net. He could finesse it more in the OHL. He's not getting away with it as a pro.

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10-21-2010, 03:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by allstar3970 View Post
agree on some points, but then again players arent always the best evaluators of talent either (just look at all the players that have failed miserably as GM's, coaches, etc. and this goes for ALL sports)
Understood, but the point remains that I would trust the opinions shared by the folks that have spent the better part of their lives around the game to the point of being hired as a pro scout for an NHL franchise than fans/writers that populate a website.

Now, I do not mean that to knock what those fans/writers do here as I fully enjoy the content, but it's taken with a huge grain fo salt.

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:27 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by deriik2020 View Post
To be fair you are nitpicking the hell outta that statement. We all know Fowler fell and was thought to be the most likely to go at 3. When he says 11 he's in error he should have said 9 but you should be able to recognize he made a simple error saying 11 instead of 9.
Not sure why you're going in this direction. 11...9...whatever.

When the Islanders chose Taveras it does not mean they did not think Hedman, Duchesne, Kane, or anyone else they passed on would not be great players. They could only choose one, and they decided that Taveras was their best option.

But he's trying to imply that every team that passed on Cam Fowler did so because they did not think he would amount to anything, and that's not based in reality.

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10-21-2010, 04:41 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Not sure why you're going in this direction. 11...9...whatever.

When the Islanders chose Taveras it does not mean they did not think Hedman, Duchesne, Kane, or anyone else they passed on would not be great players. They could only choose one, and they decided that Taveras was their best option.

But he's trying to imply that every team that passed on Cam Fowler did so because they did not think he would amount to anything, and that's not based in reality.
Pretty sure that's not what he said...he's saying that the Rangers weren't the only team that SHOULD'VE according to "rankings" picked Fowler and didn't. It's been said Clark was high on Fowler, which obviously shows the Rangers scouts didn't think he was a bad player at all.

They decided D-Mac would be better for the club in the long term, and that's that- for better or for worse. (Hopefully, better.)

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:48 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
Not sure why you're going in this direction. 11...9...whatever.

When the Islanders chose Taveras it does not mean they did not think Hedman, Duchesne, Kane, or anyone else they passed on would not be great players. They could only choose one, and they decided that Taveras was their best option.

But he's trying to imply that every team that passed on Cam Fowler did so because they did not think he would amount to anything, and that's not based in reality.
Wow! What? When did I say that? And you're the one throwing about words like "misrepresenting"? I said teams passed on him because there were things they didn't like about him. Not that "he wouldn't amount to anything".

I could say that Lundqvist is great, but I don't like his glove hand high. Does that mean I'd have drafted Montoya ahead of Lundqvist because I think his glove needs work? Do I really have to spell this out for you in this amount of detail?

Obviously, teams passed on Fowler because they didn't fit what their team needed, they thought he wasn't NHL ready, wasn't physical enough, needed a wing, needed a physical D, needed a goalie, didn't like Fowler's shot, didn't like his foot speed, didn't like his size, *WHATEVER*. That certainly doesn't translate to me saying he sucks. Jeezus.

You're high on Fowler. Great. I hope he does well. He's not a Ranger.

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Wow! What? When did I say that? And you're the one throwing about words like "misrepresenting"? I said teams passed on him because there were things they didn't like about him. Not that "he wouldn't amount to anything".
This is what I fundamentally disagree with. Just because a team decided to choose someone besides Fowler does not mean there are things they didn't like about him. They may have liked him just fine, but decided to go elsewhere for whatever reason.

You cannot assume that not drafting a player means there were things teams did not like about him. You can only draft one guy at a time, even if you like two or more.

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10-21-2010, 05:08 PM
  #42
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Old
10-21-2010, 05:10 PM
  #43
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Stepan is underrated and should be higher.
Kreider is overrated and should be lower.
Grachev is overrated and borderline whether he should be on the list.
McDonagh could possibly crack the top 50.
McIlrath has proven nothing yet at this point to be on the list.

We have some good prospects but people around here get way out of control with the hype machine!
Stay off the kool-aid!

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:52 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
This is what I fundamentally disagree with. Just because a team decided to choose someone besides Fowler does not mean there are things they didn't like about him. They may have liked him just fine, but decided to go elsewhere for whatever reason.

You cannot assume that not drafting a player means there were things teams did not like about him. You can only draft one guy at a time, even if you like two or more.
Okay, if we're going to parse words like this then let me rephrase the statement:

Teams that drafted ahead of Anaheim liked the player that they drafted better than Cam Fowler for _________ reason(s).

I don't want to hurt Cam's feelings.

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