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The Brassard/Filatov/Voracek line thread

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Old
10-26-2010, 11:41 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Is it unfair, though, to ask why Filatov isn't getting time on the PP? Especially considering his powerplay production in the preseason and in the games against the Sharks?
No, it's not.

As I said about 3 posts ago I'm no longer sure what Arniel's issue is. Now the PP was very ineffective, bordering on a liability. Arniel switched things up and we have some very odd PP lines. As it has seemed to become more effective, it could simply be that he's sticking with what has been more effective.

But this Filatov .vs. Jake/Brass thing is just weird.

I don't know what the whole story is, but Arniel has picked Filatov out for some reason. He's being harder on him that Hitch was. Not that I'm necessarily bothered by it. But at some point it has to be productive. We're probably bordering on the point where it's not productive.

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10-26-2010, 11:47 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I don't know what the whole story is, but Arniel has picked Filatov out for some reason. He's being harder on him that Hitch was. Not that I'm necessarily bothered by it. But at some point it has to be productive. We're probably bordering on the point where it's not productive.
I would say he's being equally as tough on the kid as Hitch, and probably - although I can't know for sure - for the same reason(s).

Not sure what you mean by "has to be productive" and "bordering on the point where it's not productive". I'm not sure how we can know this. As I said in the GDT, the staff is spending time during the game talking to and diagramming things for Filatov - I suggested the possibility this is to keep him as engaged as possible while his ice time is down. Nikki hasn't been a healthy scratch, so presumably the coached have determined it's better for him to play some and watch some from ice level than from the press box.

We won't know if it's productive or not until either Nikki gets more ice time and is either better or not, or until the player is quoted questioning his playing time or some personnel decision is made.

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Old
10-26-2010, 11:57 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
blahblah, according logic bad achievments=fourth line Brass and Jake will not play in the first line! But I see that this logic is only with Filatov.
Please, quit comparing Filatov and Brassard. One is a wing, the other is a center. If you want to compare Brassard and Vermette, go for it.

Arniel made a choice between Jake and Filatov. For his own reasons he picked Jake to be on the opposite wing of Nash. He chose Jake. Just get over it already. There are numerous logical reasons to choose Jake. There were 88 of the most obvious of them over the last two years. 50 last year alone.

Jake is hitting the point of being a veteran and they generally get more time to get out of an early season funk then players coming back from playing in the KHL the previous season, who have never proved anything at the NHL level. Crazy I know.


Last edited by blahblah: 10-26-2010 at 12:37 PM.
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10-26-2010, 12:15 PM
  #129
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Correct me if I am wrong please. (Memory not what it used to be) Didn't both Brass and Jake spend time on the fourth line learning what it means to play at a NHL level ? Didn't Stamkos and just about every young dynamo have some period of adjustment. (Note I said just about, not every)

I am having a hard time understanding what it is about this that is such an issue. He is a young and very talented and at some point in time he will either get it or he won't. It isn't really any different than any other high level prospect.

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10-26-2010, 12:16 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
I would say he's being equally as tough on the kid as Hitch, and probably - although I can't know for sure - for the same reason(s).
I don't know, this feels different to me.

Quote:
Not sure what you mean by "has to be productive" and "bordering on the point where it's not productive". I'm not sure how we can know this.
Remember how people were saying last year that the message might be confusing to the player? Same thing might apply here. We don't know the conversations that are going on and how Nikki is reacting to them.

But at what point when does the message being sent no longer have value?

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10-26-2010, 12:25 PM
  #131
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Deserved or not Hitch had a reputation for being difficult for youger player to handle. Arniel has a reputation for good skills with young developing player, probably a factor in why he is here.

To this point there have been no indications that there are any problems. It will play out to whatever end it is going to. I for for one have a better feeling with HCSA managing the situation.

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10-26-2010, 12:42 PM
  #132
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When you go from 10 minutes to 6 minutes, but the coach says he liked your play more. Then you go to 5 minutes?

Simple observation tells me that something could very well be amiss. Something more then is being advertised.

Perhaps it was the game situation, but what I saw on the ice didn't really fully explain it to me.

Just saying, at this point, 2+2 doesn't look like it equally 4.

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10-26-2010, 12:44 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
When you go from 10 minutes to 6 minutes, but the coach says he liked your play more. Then you go to 5 minutes?

Simple observation tells me that something could very well be amiss. Something more then is being advertised.

Perhaps it was the game situation, but what I saw on the ice didn't really fully explain it to me.

Just saying, at this point, 2+2 doesn't look like it equally 4.
Or perhaps the first 3 lines were playing really well?

This entire debate reeks of manufactured controversy.

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10-26-2010, 12:52 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Or perhaps the first 3 lines were playing really well?

This entire debate reeks of manufactured controversy.
And as usual you haven't followed the thread.

I am at a place where what I am seeing on the ice no longer matches what I would expect to see. It's only logical that it raise an eyebrow or two until things sort it out. I can no longer explain it. Your answer might be true, but I saw no reason to exclude the 4th line based on how they were performing on ice.

Big deal. There is no drama in it. In this case I see reasonable questions. Nikki didn't play that bad from what I saw last night.

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10-26-2010, 12:59 PM
  #135
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If his time doesn't go up versus Edmonton, I'd be surprised.

If the coaching staff is concerned about his play versus "rough" opponents, I can see why they didn't put him out much versus Philadelphia and Calgary (not looking up the numbers to back up my point - I may be wrong).

Edmonton doesn't have the same reputation.

We didn't really roll 4 lines that much last night either. Whether that was due to Boll just getting back in the line-up or Filatov being in the dog house or some combo, I don't know.

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10-26-2010, 01:03 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I don't know, this feels different to me.
Arniel hates young players.

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10-26-2010, 01:04 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
And as usual you haven't followed the thread.

I am at a place where what I am seeing on the ice no longer matches what I would expect to see. It's only logical that it raise an eyebrow or two until things sort it out. I can no longer explain it. Your answer might be true, but I saw no reason to exclude the 4th line based on how they were performing on ice.

Big deal. There is no drama in it. In this case I see reasonable questions. Nikki didn't play that bad from what I saw last night.
What's there to follow? You're trying to stir the pot by stating that Arniel could be mad at Filatov. You may or may not be right, but I don't see enough evidence to support that, especially given the events of the last 2 games.

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10-26-2010, 01:05 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Or perhaps the first 3 lines were playing really well?

This entire debate reeks of manufactured controversy.
I tend to agree with this, and will admit that I haven't been following the debate all that closely.

I like the public nature of Arniel's handling of the situation. In fact, I like his public stature quite a bit in regards to his handling of the team very much.

It's early. It's 8 games. Let's give Filatov 10 or so more and remember that he's still a rookie in the NHL, far from home. Jake hit a wall his rookie season too - not this early, but still. There's no reason not to take Arniel's word for it at this point.

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10-26-2010, 01:09 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Please, quit comparing Filatov and Brassard. One is a wing, the other is a center. If you want to compare Brassard and Vermette, go for it.

Arniel made a choice between Jake and Filatov. For his own reasons he picked Jake to be on the opposite wing of Nash. He chose Jake. Just get over it already. There are numerous logical reasons to choose Jake. There were 88 of the most obvious of them over the last two years. 50 last year alone.

Jake is hitting the point of being a veteran and they generally get more time to get out of an early season funk then players coming back from playing in the KHL the previous season, who have never proved anything at the NHL level. Crazy I know.
So, why did not Filatov with Vermette and Umberger or Huselius (when Umby played in the third line)? He understand with him. Why did Arniel put him to fourth line? Explain me this logic.

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10-26-2010, 01:10 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Arniel hates young players.
IMO it is not right.

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10-26-2010, 01:13 PM
  #141
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Did everyone else notice that the line that really got blown up was the first? None of those players are still together. (light weight floaters that they can be). I'm starting to think that Vermette can be a chameleon. If you put him with floaters, he floats. If you put him with hitters, he hits.

Filatov being on the 4th may truly have less to do with his play, but more to do with the team as a whole.

However, the ice time stat is all on him (and the coaching staff).

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10-26-2010, 01:14 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
IMO it is not right.
Arniel hates Filatov?

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10-26-2010, 01:17 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Arniel hates Filatov?
Filatov is not only one young player.

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10-26-2010, 01:18 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
So, why did not Filatov with Vermette and Umberger or Huselius (when Umby played in the third line)? He understand with him. Why did Arniel put him to fourth line? Explain me this logic.
First things first, remove Vermette from the equation. He's a center, whereas the others are Wingers.

Umberger has been the best Jacket forward so far in the season. No way should he be demoted to the 4th line. Huselius has also had a strong start to the regular season, and he's undeserving of the demotion.

I understand that you're a Filatov fan, but I think you (and others) are overreacting. I take Filatov's recent ice time to be more as a result of the excellent play that the first 3 lines have shown recently then a sign that Arniel has a personal issue with Filatov.

Remember, it's only 2 games. Injuries and ineffective play are going to take their toll and if Filatov works hard and listens to Arniel, I have no doubts that he'll get much more ice time.

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10-26-2010, 01:25 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Filatov is not only one young player.
Just trying to figure it all out - you know, why Nikki's ice time is down and he's skating with scrubs. As blahblah said, Nikki seems to be playing better. And as you've said, other young players have not been forced to play on the fourth line. So this must be the reason.

Arniel hates Filatov.

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10-26-2010, 01:26 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
First things first, remove Vermette from the equation. He's a center, whereas the others are Wingers.

Umberger has been the best Jacket forward so far in the season. No way should he be demoted to the 4th line. Huselius has also had a strong start to the regular season, and he's undeserving of the demotion.

I understand that you're a Filatov fan, but I think you (and others) are overreacting. I take Filatov's recent ice time to be more as a result of the excellent play that the first 3 lines have shown recently then a sign that Arniel has a personal issue with Filatov.

Remember, it's only 2 games. Injuries and ineffective play are going to take their toll and if Filatov works hard and listens to Arniel, I have no doubts that he'll get much more ice time.
I do not know but probably do not understand my messages.

1. Brassard and Voráček played bad. Reaction of Arniel? Put him to the first line.
2. Filatov played bad (but better than both of them, mostly). Reaction of Arniel? Put him to fourth line.

Conceive an example, you should problems in the job. Your chief would would take a part of money. Your colleague should whorse problems and your chief would increase salary so that he would motivate him. It is the same.

Is it fair or unfair? It is not whether I am his fan or not. If Arniel would make it Brass or Voráček or another player I would write the same.

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10-26-2010, 01:28 PM
  #147
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What's there to follow? You're trying to stir the pot by stating that Arniel could be mad at Filatov. You may or may not be right, but I don't see enough evidence to support that, especially given the events of the last 2 games.
Which events are those exactly? You mean wins in which the team looked better?

I am not, in any way, attempting to stir anything.

Arniel already indicated he wasn't happy with Filatov's play (including others). I didn't have to invent that. There was no consideration of "could". He was not happy and admitted it. So he rewarded him with 4 less minutes in a game in which he was more competitive (according to Arniel). Once again, no invention on my part. Then one minute less the next game. You usually don't reward improved play with less ice time.

Does that sound like to you that he's suddenly happy? Maybe. I suppose it's possible he could be.

Arniel stirred this pot, I didn't have to do a thing. I'm not even upset or all that concerned about it. Like I really care all that much about Filatov's ice time. Curious is the best word. And when I find something curious I talk about it.

I'm not sure it's simply an issue with the 4th line or an issue with Nikki. But there were chances to give Nikki a few shifts over the last two periods that Arniel and the staff didn't take advantage of. What it tells me is that it was not a priority for him to get some additional minutes for Filatov. Special teams play, after a PP or PK, for example give you the opportunity to play the 4th line or mix in someone from another line as the normal line mate rests. Arniel didn't do it. So it can not be simply explained away with "OMG, the top three lines rocked!".

It's all to be noted as part of the body of work. I try and note everything so that I can be more educated on future "isms" and get a better understanding of what Arniel actually means when he says or does something. Not cause some additional drama on a freakin forum.


Last edited by blahblah: 10-26-2010 at 01:33 PM.
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10-26-2010, 01:33 PM
  #148
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By the way Samkow, I did not write that Vermette should play in another line or Umby to the fourt line. I wrote Filatov should (according a logic put Brass and Jake to Nash) play in the line with Vermette and Umby or Vermette and Huselius, when Umby still PLAYED in the line with Pahlsson.

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10-26-2010, 01:33 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I do not know but probably do not understand my messages.

1. Brassard and Voráček played bad. Reaction of Arniel? Put him to the first line.
2. Filatov played bad (but better than both of them, mostly). Reaction of Arniel? Put him to fourth line.

Conceive an example, you should problems in the job. Your chief would would take a part of money. Your colleague should whorse problems and your chief would increase salary so that he would motivate him. It is the same.

Is it fair or unfair? It is not whether I am his fan or not. If Arniel would make it Brass or Voráček or another player I would write the same.
I would say trust Arneil. His decison has led to Jake and Derek starting to break out and get it going. When the move yields results it is hard to argue. I like Filitov and I want him to do well but I kind of like the way Arneil is currently running things.

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10-26-2010, 01:35 PM
  #150
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I'm not worried about what line Filatov is on right now, just his ice time. I think it makes sense to blow up the lines, and I think it makes sense to put Filatov with Mackenzie and Wilson as a possible 3rd skill line.

What I'm worried about is 5:00 TOI, and specifically whether or not Filatov will "buy in" to this concept of having to impress his coach. He didn't with Hitch, he didn't during the WJC with Russia, but maybe he will with Arniel...

Also, as to the "transition period" argument, I'm going to say that last year was Filatov's 1st year in the league. Brass and Jake didn't take 3 years to get up and going once they transferred to Pro. For better or for worse they were seeing 2nd line minutes by their 2nd years.

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