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The Brassard/Filatov/Voracek line thread

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Old
10-26-2010, 02:36 PM
  #151
blahblah
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Arniel hates Filatov.
lol, and I accused of stirring the pot?

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10-26-2010, 02:37 PM
  #152
mt-svk
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Originally Posted by anteater90 View Post
I would say trust Arneil. His decison has led to Jake and Derek starting to break out and get it going. When the move yields results it is hard to argue. I like Filitov and I want him to do well but I kind of like the way Arneil is currently running things.
I want to know an explaining Arniels logic.

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10-26-2010, 02:40 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I do not know but probably do not understand my messages.

1. Brassard and Voráček played bad. Reaction of Arniel? Put him to the first line.
2. Filatov played bad (but better than both of them, mostly). Reaction of Arniel? Put him to fourth line.

Conceive an example, you should problems in the job. Your chief would would take a part of money. Your colleague should whorse problems and your chief would increase salary so that he would motivate him. It is the same.

Is it fair or unfair? It is not whether I am his fan or not. If Arniel would make it Brass or Voráček or another player I would write the same.
As blahblah said, Brassard is a center. His ice-time doesn't have very much of an effect on Filatov's ice time.

You may have a point on Voracek, but it's not like Filatov out played Voracek by any margin. In the end, it comes down to the coach's decision. Based on the play of the Nash-Voracek-Brassard line recently, Arniel seems to have made the correct choice.

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10-26-2010, 02:41 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I want to know an explaining Arniels logic.
This seems relevant:

Quote:
Commenting on top lines…
"If you are a goal scorer and you are not scoring, you better make sure you defend. We are getting an awful lot of mileage out of our grit players and we need more from some of our top people.”
http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=541347

Title is wrong it is post game comments after Calgary game.

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Old
10-26-2010, 02:41 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
So, why did not Filatov with Vermette and Umberger or Huselius (when Umby played in the third line)? He understand with him. Why did Arniel put him to fourth line? Explain me this logic.
I've already said I can't. I was actually for having Filatov on a line with Vermette and Juice. I mean it's not like we suddenly have a dangerous second line now. After the top line, it's back on the Clark line again for secondary scoring chances. I'd say it's partially a numbers game, no matter how distasteful that is to you. I mean are we really doing to demote Juice to the forth line, for example? The guys playing on the third line are playing well.

This is Arniel's call. I'm not opposed to what he's doing. I'm not sure if I'm for it either. I'm remaining neutral until I see how it plays out. However, I do find it very interesting.

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10-26-2010, 02:41 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
lol, and I accused of stirring the pot?
I'm trying to get the pot to stop stirring. While others ask questions, I offer potential answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I want to know an explaining Arniels logic.
We don't know.

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Old
10-26-2010, 02:47 PM
  #157
mt-svk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I've already said I can't. I was actually for having Filatov on a line with Vermette and Juice. I mean it's not like we suddenly have a dangerous second line now. After the top line, it's back on the Clark line again for secondary scoring chances. I'd say it's partially a numbers game, no matter how distasteful that is to you. I mean are we really doing to demote Juice to the forth line, for example? The guys playing on the third line are playing well.

This is Arniel's call. I'm not opposed to what he's doing. I'm not sure if I'm for it either. I'm remaining neutral until I see how it plays out. However, I do find it very interesting.
The massage here belongs to another thread.


Last edited by mt-svk: 10-26-2010 at 02:57 PM.
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10-26-2010, 02:52 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
I want to know an explaining Arniels logic.
I believe the biggest part is that Jake and Derek were willing to be in the minors until they were ready to be brought up. Unfortunately it seems as if Nikki played a card to get out early and therefore is having to get up to speed. If it was as you said to picture earlier a job situation. I would have terminated him for insubordination previously. This is pro-sports folks. It is not suppose to be beautiful for everyone. Competition is a good thing. Hell Nash was not on the top 2 lines his first year either. I believe he was a regular third liner. But he was big enough to check and score.

Caught self rambling. Done now.

PS Arneill does not have to tell us what he is thinking.

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10-26-2010, 02:55 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by anteater90 View Post


I believe the biggest part is that Jake and Derek were willing to be in the minors until they were ready to be brought up. Unfortunately it seems as if Nikki played a card to get out early and therefore is having to get up to speed. If it was as you said to picture earlier a job situation. I would have terminated him for insubordination previously. This is pro-sports folks. It is not suppose to be beautiful for everyone. Competition is a good thing. Hell Nash was not on the top 2 lines his first year either. I believe he was a regular third liner. But he was big enough to check and score.

Caught self rambling. Done now.

PS Arneill does not have to tell us what he is thinking.
Achievments or deserts? It is not important how many times you play in AHL, CHL or where. Important are achievments. FOR EVERYONE not for only some players.

I know Arniel do not say us his ideas .

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Old
10-26-2010, 02:56 PM
  #160
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how can you say what he's doing isn't developing...as DSL said there was a coach talking to him and keeping Nikki engaged during the game last night...Philly has a lot of bruising players, they like to hit. Nikki's 190 lbs could get thrown around vs them. I don't see the issue that many of you are trying to make.

As was said, think about how Jake hit the wall during his rookie year, that's all this is, a wall, as shown on just about every level from him, once he gets it and starts putting it together, he'll be just fine.

I have faith in Boogs and HCSA to show the young kids how to compete

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10-26-2010, 03:00 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Fro View Post
how can you say what he's doing isn't developing...as DSL said there was a coach talking to him and keeping Nikki engaged during the game last night...Philly has a lot of bruising players, they like to hit. Nikki's 190 lbs could get thrown around vs them. I don't see the issue that many of you are trying to make.

As was said, think about how Jake hit the wall during his rookie year, that's all this is, a wall, as shown on just about every level from him, once he gets it and starts putting it together, he'll be just fine.

I have faith in Boogs and HCSA to show the young kids how to compete
Philla today in son Burkes Philla or Philla still 5 years ago, Fro.

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Old
10-26-2010, 03:02 PM
  #162
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no but shelley, powe, carcillo, briere, hartnell...all lay the lumber and aren't afraid to mix it up...we have boll and dorsett...a huge difference

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10-26-2010, 03:05 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Fro View Post
no but shelley, powe, carcillo, briere, hartnell...all lay the lumber and aren't afraid to mix it up...we have boll and dorsett...a huge difference
Filatov played against Richards, Giroux, Powe, Zherdev, Van Riemsdyk and Carter.
By the way other teams has similar players too. Does it mean that Filatov will play minimum ice-time for it?

EDIT: By the way, Briere is typical second Bobby Clarke (not Burke, sorry )

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10-26-2010, 03:22 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Filatov played against Richards, Giroux, Powe, Zherdev, Van Riemsdyk and Carter.
By the way other teams has similar players too. Does it mean that Filatov will play minimum ice-time for it?

EDIT: By the way, Briere is typical second Bobby Clarke (not Burke, sorry )
The biggest question right now is how Filatov will respond to decreased ice time, debating the demotion is no longer an issue-he's been demoted.

If he responds as hoped he will tough it out; play as the coach requests and work his way back into the top lines. I don't think he will be sent down to the minors or scratched, also, if there are several injuries to our top wingers he will get another chance that way.

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10-26-2010, 03:54 PM
  #165
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It's hard to argue thus far (albeit only two games in) with the new top line. Brassard looks like a different player with the space that Nash creates for him, as does Jake thus far (his goals will come, IMHO). No need to tinker there just yet.

I find myself in the weird limbo of agreeing with Arniel that Filatov needs to earn his way back up, and yet paradoxically wondering how he's going to do that playing 4th line shifts/minutes every night, especially when the fourth line will potentially see a lot of time against the big uglies we're trying to keep Filly away from.

I think I like--back lack the conviction to really get behind--the idea of putting Filly on the Vermette--Umberger line. Those guys play enough D to mask Filly's short-comings a bit as he learns, and if playing on a line with RJ every shift doesn't get your fire lit, then the problem is deeper than maybe we thought.

I recognize this puts us in an interesting spot re: Juice. Hence my lack of conviction.

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10-26-2010, 03:54 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Fro View Post
no but shelley, powe, carcillo, briere, hartnell...all lay the lumber and aren't afraid to mix it up...we have boll and dorsett...a huge difference
Yeah, that's it... We were afraid of Filatov dying by the big nasty Flyers.

The think, the "a lot" in your previous post, is one person. I'm sure not making a big deal of out it. I'm certainly not going to dismiss it as quickly and easily as you have either.

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10-26-2010, 03:59 PM
  #167
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i guess the comment was made along the lines about nikki getting pushed off the puck...i see those players being ones that do that a lot. that's all, if i'm wrong, i'm wrong...i guess we'll see on thursday if anything changes

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10-26-2010, 04:04 PM
  #168
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i guess the comment was made along the lines about nikki getting pushed off the puck...i see those players being ones that do that a lot. that's all, if i'm wrong, i'm wrong...i guess we'll see on thursday if anything changes
True, but I think that's a risk he runs against every team.

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10-26-2010, 04:27 PM
  #169
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True, but I think that's a risk he runs against every team.
in a way...absolutely...but there are more skilled teams vs teams that are set up "weighty" if you will...I don't see New Jersey, for example, being a team that is going to push a lot of teams around, they are set up to be more skilled (IMO). Detroit is another. If those make sense as examples...there are different levels to strength vs skill for teams...and philly, pitt, rags, canucks, etc those teams, at least historically have been known as hitters and punishing teams ones that nikki would be more easily pushed around on...

hopefully that makes some sense, it does in my head anyways

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10-26-2010, 04:32 PM
  #170
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Sounds fine to me.

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10-26-2010, 06:53 PM
  #171
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I really like Filatov with RJ and Verms. That would be a great second line, and very conducive for Nikita to get it going.

Nash/Brass/Jakub
Filatov/Vermette/RJ
Wilson/Pahlsson/Clark
Huselius/Mackenzie/Dorsett

Juice's spot does become an issue with Nikky + RJ on L2... but Juice is out, for now... and I'd love love lovee to see Nik-Fil-A with those two for Thursday's game vs. EDM.

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10-26-2010, 08:40 PM
  #172
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If his time doesn't go up versus Edmonton, I'd be surprised.

If the coaching staff is concerned about his play versus "rough" opponents, I can see why they didn't put him out much versus Philadelphia and Calgary (not looking up the numbers to back up my point - I may be wrong).

Edmonton doesn't have the same reputation.

We didn't really roll 4 lines that much last night either. Whether that was due to Boll just getting back in the line-up or Filatov being in the dog house or some combo, I don't know.
This.

I really have no idea what the relationship is between Arniel and Filatov is at this point. I sat behind the CBJ bench last night and was trying to see if Filatov showed hints of being discouraged at being stapled to the bench but couldn't detect any. He seemed engaged in the game, talking to the other players. I didn't see him talking much to the coaches, though - a couple of times to Boughner that I saw - but I may have missed it.

A game against Edmonton at home seems to be a good one to let loose the leash a bit. If he is still down around 5 min or less in playing time, I suspect it's going to be awhile before we see Filatov getting significant minutes.

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10-27-2010, 03:11 AM
  #173
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We have centers who played better than Brass (when played bad), for example MacKenzie. But as I say we have two task-masters, one for Filatov and second for ther players.

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10-27-2010, 09:57 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
We have centers who played better than Brass (when played bad), for example MacKenzie. But as I say we have two task-masters, one for Filatov and second for ther players.
I think you need to take into account the fact that there are other variables that we are not privy to. Even if the on-ice performance were the only factor, the players have different roles, even among the centers, and it doesn't make sense to compare their games in an attempt to justify something, anything, about Filatov.

Life's not fair, Filatov's play dictates what happens to Filatov. What Brassard does is irrelevant, for the most part.

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10-27-2010, 10:21 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
We have centers who played better than Brass (when played bad), for example MacKenzie. But as I say we have two task-masters, one for Filatov and second for ther players.
The success of this team, long term, has nothing to do with MacKenzie at center on the second line. We have options on 2nd line wing that we really don't for center.

I'd worry less about Filatov and more about the team.

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