HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Are you still excited about Evgeny Grachev?

View Poll Results: Are you still high on Grachev?
Yes: He's going to develop, just give him time.. 101 62.35%
No: He's looking like a player drafted 75th overall.. 43 26.54%
I never was high on him 18 11.11%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-21-2010, 02:08 PM
  #26
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Is this the Hugh Jessiman thread all over again. I hope he does not go down the same path!
self-fulfilling prophecy?

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:17 PM
  #27
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 16,401
vCash: 500
It's shocking that we have oh my god the sky is falling threads over 20 year old prospects. He was not a top 3 pick...must we be so impatient?

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:18 PM
  #28
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
I am trying to stay positive on Grachev. But every day he's making it more difficult. He succeeded when surrounded by good players. He may need a shot at the NHL level to see if he can produce before concluding that he is never going to be who we hoped. Although if he fails at the NHL level, he will no trade value. I'm pulling for ya Evgeny.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:23 PM
  #29
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
It's shocking that we have oh my god the sky is falling threads over 20 year old prospects. He was not a top 3 pick...must we be so impatient?
It's not shocking because we haven't produced a decent offensive prospect since the carter administration.

The sky isn't falling, I was simply trying to gauge the excitement level of our fan base. Is that so wrong?

Has he done anything to make us MORE excited about him since he hit the AHL??

I think his brilliant OHL season unfairly elevated our expectations, so some level of disappointment seemed inevitable.

get it?

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:28 PM
  #30
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I meant that he didn't fall to the 3rd because of his skill set. Sorry if that was confusing. The OP implied that he had the skill set of a 3rd rounder.. whatever that means.

you know exactly what I was trying to say... my apologies for not being as eloquent as I could have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaromir Jagr View Post
It's stupid.

Anisimov is a highly touted player around these boards and for Ranger fans, and he didn't make his way onto the team until after 2 full seasons in the Pack. One was successful, and then one was highly successful.

Grachev has played one season for the Pack. It wasn't impressive. If he impresses this year, he'll be on the same track that Anisimov is.

How could you put the guy down after one pro season? It's ridiculous. Yes, I understand he disappointed in training camp, but the guy's nowhere near a bust.

I'd say if he puts up 40 points or less in Hartford again this year, then it's time to worry slightly.
What track is that? The 3rd line center that everyone ferociously overrates, track?

championship, here we come...


Last edited by KreiMeARiver*: 10-21-2010 at 02:37 PM.
KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:33 PM
  #31
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,269
vCash: 500
It's stupid.

Anisimov is a highly touted player around these boards and for Ranger fans, and he didn't make his way onto the team until after 2 full seasons in the Pack. One was successful, and then one was highly successful.

Grachev has played one season for the Pack. It wasn't impressive. If he impresses this year, he'll be on the same track that Anisimov is.

How could you put the guy down after one pro season? It's ridiculous. Yes, I understand he disappointed in training camp, but the guy's nowhere near a bust.

I'd say if he puts up 40 points or less in Hartford again this year, then it's time to worry slightly.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:39 PM
  #32
ColonialsHockey10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
I didn't pick the wrong draft? ....That was the graft Grachev came from and my point wasnt that the players from the 08' draft are going to suck....my point was that most of the players from that draft (specifically first round) are not even in the NHL yet or, if they are, are not yet established, hence, still developing.

He was only drafted two years ago, then had a pretty good season and became a sensation on these boards and a potential saviour for this team. We always tend to overrate our prospects and this is no different.

Will he be the next Messier, no, but i still have a strong belief that he will be a good 2nd and 3rd liner on this squad for years to come.
All I was saying is that the insane amount of talent coming from 2008 doesn't help Grachev's case. For example if he was drafted in 2007 he would look like an awesome pick even in the 1st round.

This preseason taught me some important things about Grachev. He is insanely talented and has an incredible frame to work with. When he had the puck you could see that "it" factor that people get excited about with Russians. That type of talent can't be taught, but work ethic most certainly can.

I am still very excited about Grachev.

ColonialsHockey10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:41 PM
  #33
dccuse
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 319
vCash: 500
dccuse

Yes; excited.

Grachev willl never be a 3rd line grinder - at least not on this team, theres no room for him in that role.

therefore, he'll either be a top line talent or a nothing. His development curve and the potential he flashed in juniors suggests there is a chance, albeit dissipating one, that he amounts to a top line threat.

The mere thought of having someone like that in the system excites me.

More excited for:

Thomas Anisimov Gaborik
Kreider Stepan Horak
Dubinsky Werek Callahan
Hagelin Avery Weise

Would love for Grachev to earnedly displace one of these guys on my "dream lines for 2011". Dont expect it but still excited about the prospects (npi)

dccuse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:43 PM
  #34
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post

you know exactly what I was trying to say... my apologies for not being as eloquent as I could have.



What track is that? The 3rd line center that everyone ferociously overrates, track?

championship, here we come...
I don't know who's speaking the word championship around here but it certainly isn't me. Realism is a different word though. And should be used in this context.

You expect us to grow a crop of a half-dozen elite forwards? Anisimov has the chance to be good, and so does Grachev. What's your point?

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:47 PM
  #35
mm11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I am trying to stay positive on Grachev. But every day he's making it more difficult. He succeeded when surrounded by good players. He may need a shot at the NHL level to see if he can produce before concluding that he is never going to be who we hoped. Although if he fails at the NHL level, he will no trade value. I'm pulling for ya Evgeny.
some guys click when the competition and teammates are the highest. This may be the case for this young talented big russian tank when he gets his chance in the NHL becuase there is no doubt the ranger brass will atleast give him a cup of coffee one day to try to catch lightning in a bottle

Kovalev in 94 playing for Keenan and co just clicked with Mess, Leetch, graves and the rest of the guys. It was watching magic, Lovy , Leetch and Mess were the best during the cup run. Kovy after that showed glimpses throughout his career but was never 100% consistant. Grachev just may be this type of player (albeit differant skill set b/c with that size and Kovy's skills forgettttbouuut it)

mm11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:52 PM
  #36
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
It's not shocking because we haven't produced a decent offensive prospect since the carter administration.

The sky isn't falling, I was simply trying to gauge the excitement level of our fan base. Is that so wrong?

Has he done anything to make us MORE excited about him since he hit the AHL??

I think his brilliant OHL season unfairly elevated our expectations, so some level of disappointment seemed inevitable.

get it?
No necessarily true.

There's Leetch of course, even though he's a defenseman.
James Patrick, defenseman
Zubov, defenseman
Tomas Sandstrom
Dave Gagner
Ulf Dahlen
Darren Turcotte
Tony Amonte
Doug Weight
Alexei Kovalev
Marc Savard

All of the forwards averaged 0.647 (Turcotte) to 0.890 (Savard) points per game over their careers. The defensemen 0.499 (Patrick) to 0.853 (Leetch).

Now, that's not a large amount of players, and there's a huge gap in there from the 1995 draft (when Savard was drafted) until recently. A lot of these guys didn't enjoy their success with the Rangers, or at least not the majority of it. However, some were good players with the Rangers, were traded and made good careers for themselves elsewhere.

However, I think the more accurate statement would be that the Rangers haven't drafted/produced a decent offensive prospect since the first term of the Clinton Administration and surely haven't drafted any big time stars since 1986 (Reagan Administration) at any position (except Lundqvist I guess).

As of now, we can only hope that MDZ, Stepan, Dubinsky, Anismov, etc can break that.


Last edited by WhipNash27: 10-21-2010 at 03:03 PM.
WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:59 PM
  #37
Florida Ranger
Bring back Torts!
 
Florida Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa, FLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,097
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Is this the Hugh Jessiman thread all over again. I hope he does not go down the same path!
It's different when you're drafted in the 1st round compared to being drafted in the 3rd.

Florida Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 02:59 PM
  #38
Ollie Queen
After 5 years...
 
Ollie Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 10,391
vCash: 500
I didn't vote because none of the options express how I feel.

I was pretty high on Grachev. I still think he has plenty of time to become the player we are hoping he will be, so I'm not going to say "No, I'm no longer high on him", but given his preseason performance (not bad, but not very... visible?) I do have to admit I feel he is not the sure thing I had convinced myself he would be.

He WILL be an NHL player. And he does have talent. But he may end up being a guy who ends up being a 50 point player in his prime and nothing more. Given our current roster, that's not actually something to sneeze at, but it would be disappointing for a guy we thought could be a bigger threat.

And he still could pan out to our expectations. I've been high on Grachev and I still like him as a player, but I no longer have the same sense of confidence about his future.

Ollie Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:02 PM
  #39
KreiMeARiver*
Have Confidence
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,621
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
No necessarily true.

There's Leetch of course, even though he's a defenseman.
James Patrick, defenseman
Zubov, defenseman
Tomas Sandstrom
Dave Gagner
Ulf Dahlen
Darren Turcotte
Tony Amonte
Doug Weight
Alexei Kovalev
Marc Savard

All of the forwards averaged 0.647 (Turcotte) to 0.890 (Savard) points per game over their careers. The defensemen 0.499 (Patrick) to 0.853 (Leetch).

Now, that's not a large amount of players, and there's a huge gap in there from the 1995 draft (when Savard was drafted) until recently. A lot of these guys didn't enjoy their success with the Rangers, or at least not the majority of it. However, some were good players with the Rangers, were traded and made good careers for themselves elsewhere.

However, I think the more accurate statement would be that the Rangers haven't drafted a decent offensive prospect since the first term of the Clinton Administration and surely haven't drafted any big time stars since 1986 (Reagan Administration) at any position

As of now, we can only hope that MDZ, Dubinsky, Anismov, etc can break that.
hahaha I knew someone was going to take "Carter Administration" literally, and call out the good drafts.... good post, though. When I posted it, I compiled the exact same list in my head.

Don't forget about Mattias Norstrom...

KreiMeARiver* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:06 PM
  #40
WhipNash27
Quattro!!
 
WhipNash27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Westchester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 16,525
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
hahaha I knew someone was going to take "Carter Administration" literally, and call out the good drafts.... good post, though. When I posted it, I compiled the exact same list in my head.

Don't forget about Mattias Norstrom...
Well Norstrom wasn't much of an offensive player .

Unfortunately, the problem is that like 1/2 of those guys played the majority of their careers elsewhere. That's the Ranger way I guess.

WhipNash27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:09 PM
  #41
rmcg11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 300
vCash: 500
grachev is projected as a power forward correct? power forwards take longer to develop simple as that....don't give up on the kid who is probably still adapting to his last growth spurt. there are things about his game that you've seen that can't be taught its now just waiting for him to put all of the small aspects of his game together..

rmcg11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:10 PM
  #42
DubiDubiDoo
Registered User
 
DubiDubiDoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Garden City, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,927
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to DubiDubiDoo
I'll start to worry about him when if were having this conversation next yr

DubiDubiDoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:12 PM
  #43
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,558
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
you know exactly what I was trying to say... my apologies for not being as eloquent as I could have.
I still don't know what "the skill set of a 3rd rounder" is. Players are ranked on far more things beyond the "skill" they have.

Quote:
What track is that? The 3rd line center that everyone ferociously overrates, track?

championship, here we come...
Good to know that he's topped out developmentally already. Kid isn't an all-star by the age of 21? Time to trade him away.

Glen Sather, circa 2002, is that you?

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:16 PM
  #44
terrrrrible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dccuse View Post

More excited for:

Thomas Anisimov Gaborik
Kreider Stepan Horak
Dubinsky Werek Callahan
Hagelin Avery Weise

Would love for Grachev to earnedly displace one of these guys on my "dream lines for 2011". Dont expect it but still excited about the prospects (npi)
Not really trying to start something but, this can't be 2011's lineup because Drury, Avery, Boogaard, Christensen and Prust are still signed next year. Also, is it realistic that Thomas, Kreider, Horak, Werek and Hagelin are all ready for the big club by next year? Going further than that, will Avery really get another contract after next year, with what we've got coming in? No faith in MZA either I take it?

In that lineup, without Avery, why not throw Grachev in at 4C?

terrrrrible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:22 PM
  #45
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 14,168
vCash: 500
I answered yes but it's kind of a mix between the yes and no descriptions. He should develop in time but he looks more like a mid to late 2nd rounder. He kind of makes me think of Mike Knuble who took quite a while to get going. If it takes Evgeni a similar amount of time he'll probably have moved on to some other team.

I don't expect him to get into fights but he's going to have to start using his size more. 14 pm's in 80 games last year. 1 point in his last 30 or so. A scorer who isn't scoring from my experience gets pissed about it. He has the size and strength to claim territory in front of opposition goals. He's got to use it.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:31 PM
  #46
offdacrossbar
with the 10th pick..
 
offdacrossbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: da cuse
Country: Tuvalu
Posts: 9,369
vCash: 500
this is a big year for evgeny. his second as a pro. his second traverse city. his second nhl camp. his second ahl season.

all you really need to know about him so far is this....

gaby is hurt. prospal is out for months and now drury is hurt again for 6 more weeks. what a perfect time for grachev to make a statement. so what happens, no call ups. he stays in hartford. we play todd freekin white and ec instead.

pretty much all you need to hear right there peeps. he really needed to step up in camp but he took 2 steps back.

last year when i saw him live twice, he was a non factor in both games. i havent seen him this year yet, but according to hartford watchers, hes been pretty bad.

when your this guy- a hulking, fleet, 6'3 monster, you cant afford to have games where your are invisible save for a few shifts. .

dude has a great opportunity to be called up due to injuries to 3 forwards- a huge chance to step in and make a statement and never wear a hartford jersey again but hes been so bad, he didnt get the call.

that right there folks is the reality of ev grachev.

offdacrossbar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:33 PM
  #47
mullichicken25
Registered User
 
mullichicken25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,603
vCash: 500
did he really have that bad of a camp last year?

i thought i remeber him looking decent in preseason and everyone bugging out when he was sent to the pack

then he had a dissapointing season, krieder became the new boy wonder, and now grachev is tossed into trade proposals as the new "expendable" prospect

i think more time is needed...he's young, and it will be HUGE for this franchise if he ends being pretty good

mullichicken25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:38 PM
  #48
Hockey2000nyr
Registered User
 
Hockey2000nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
He had another bad camp, and didn't impress anyone at all. Now, he only has 2 points through 6 games. I realize it's still early, but is anyone still excited about this guy? I have to say, honestly, that I'm not. After his year with the Battalion, people were drooling. Now, I think he's starting to show skills evident of a 3rd rounder, and not a first rounder as people were saying. It doesn't really look like we got "the steal" of the draft, anymore.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I expected more out of a player in camp who people were calling our top prospect.
If i recall correctly this was only the second training camp that he participated in. AND he was also one of the last cuts from camp in his first training camp. Where are you getting that he had another bad camp? This year he didnt standout the way he was hoping to, but then again, hes still young. 20 years old. people need to really chill out. Yes Del Zotto and Stepan have made the NHL at either a younger age or the same age but that happens all over the NHL. Grachev needs time, I'm not sure what kind of game hes being told to play in hartford but he might need to be put in a better offensive situation and to be given the freedom to just go and not concentrate solely on defense. It seems that the organization always emphasizes defense in Hartford but when you have offensive players such as MZA and Grachev the organization really just has to let the reigns loose and let them play offense.

Hockey2000nyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:39 PM
  #49
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
What track is that? The 3rd line center that everyone ferociously overrates, track?

championship, here we come...
This is just a plain stupid comment that deserves no response.

Quote:
I think his brilliant OHL season unfairly elevated our expectations, so some level of disappointment seemed inevitable.
It didn't unfairly elevate some of our expectations because we realize what it means to have success in the OHL, also while playing there Grachev was older than many of the kids in the league.

As i said above average 3rd liner/ decent 2nd liner is all i have ever expected of him from the beginning. If we get that out of him this pick is a success considering he was drafted in the 3rd round

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-21-2010, 03:40 PM
  #50
BroadwayBlues
oxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxo
 
BroadwayBlues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York City
Country: United States
Posts: 9,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dccuse View Post
Yes; excited.

Grachev willl never be a 3rd line grinder - at least not on this team, theres no room for him in that role.

therefore, he'll either be a top line talent or a nothing. His development curve and the potential he flashed in juniors suggests there is a chance, albeit dissipating one, that he amounts to a top line threat.

The mere thought of having someone like that in the system excites me.

More excited for:

Thomas Anisimov Gaborik
Kreider Stepan Horak
Dubinsky Werek Callahan
Hagelin Avery Weise


Would love for Grachev to earnedly displace one of these guys on my "dream lines for 2011". Dont expect it but still excited about the prospects (npi)
You forgot to throw in our lottery pick for this year.

BroadwayBlues is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.