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Are you still excited about Evgeny Grachev?

View Poll Results: Are you still high on Grachev?
Yes: He's going to develop, just give him time.. 101 62.35%
No: He's looking like a player drafted 75th overall.. 43 26.54%
I never was high on him 18 11.11%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:41 PM
  #51
Beacon
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They need to let him run around and try to score. Developing offense is more important at this age than defense.

There are many players who are bad defensively until they are 23-24, and tremendous when they are 28-29. Think Brian Leetch. He was a disaster defensively as a youth, and later in his career his defense was at least as good, maybe better than his offense.

Scoring would also give him some self-confidence. If he has a bad year now, it might ruin him for a while. I'm almost thinking he should go to the ECHL to get his confidence up, score, defend, etc., and then get back up after a couple of weeks.


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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I answered yes but it's kind of a mix between the yes and no descriptions. He should develop in time but he looks more like a mid to late 2nd rounder. He kind of makes me think of Mike Knuble who took quite a while to get going. If it takes Evgeni a similar amount of time he'll probably have moved on to some other team.

I don't expect him to get into fights but he's going to have to start using his size more. 14 pm's in 80 games last year. 1 point in his last 30 or so. A scorer who isn't scoring from my experience gets pissed about it. He has the size and strength to claim territory in front of opposition goals. He's got to use it.

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:45 PM
  #52
KreiMeARiver
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Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
If i recall correctly this was only the second training camp that he participated in. AND he was also one of the last cuts from camp in his first training camp. Where are you getting that he had another bad camp? This year he didnt standout the way he was hoping to, but then again, hes still young. 20 years old. people need to really chill out. Yes Del Zotto and Stepan have made the NHL at either a younger age or the same age but that happens all over the NHL. Grachev needs time, I'm not sure what kind of game hes being told to play in hartford but he might need to be put in a better offensive situation and to be given the freedom to just go and not concentrate solely on defense. It seems that the organization always emphasizes defense in Hartford but when you have offensive players such as MZA and Grachev the organization really just has to let the reigns loose and let them play offense.
from this thread, for one:

http://hfboards.ca/showthread.php?p=27985078

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:45 PM
  #53
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Not for nothing, but if Grachev was to develop further i can see him being a similar player to a Johan Franzen. Able to play a lot better but still scores around 20-25 goals a year while being a big body on the ice. Franzen has topped out at 59 points, but his first year he had 27 goals 11 assists.

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10-21-2010, 03:46 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
did he really have that bad of a camp last year?

i thought i remeber him looking decent in preseason and everyone bugging out when he was sent to the pack

then he had a dissapointing season, krieder became the new boy wonder, and now grachev is tossed into trade proposals as the new "expendable" prospect

i think more time is needed...he's young, and it will be HUGE for this franchise if he ends being pretty good
i think he looked less prepared this year. and now he started this season very slowly which is a concern.

sometimes, and im not saying this is the case here, young players think all they have to do is show up and they earn a spot their 2nd camp. he didnt earn a spot this year and i wonder if his slow start is the disappointment of being back in hartford again.

if so, and hes able to regroup and focus, he needs to be hartfords best player. when he does that, hell get his call up.

until then, ill be waiting for him to make the next move.

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:52 PM
  #55
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Your taking that he had a second bad camp because people forgot that Grachev and Weise were actually two of the final cuts from camp? and they played in most of the Preseason games last year? Grachev didn't contribute in scoring that preseason but he didn't look out of place on the ice. The only thing that shocked people after the camp he had last year was the fact that he didn't dominate the AHL. It came as a shock because again he just missed making the team and then he played in the AHL and was far from competent offensively. I guess one can contribute this to the fact that some players just dont like working on their defensive hockey. It worked with Anisimov, Dubinsky, Callahan but it definetly did not work with some of the players we've had down there in the past. Some players development get thrown out of whack when the team demands them to be extremely conscience of their defensive play, when in reality that player is not a defensive player whatsoever. Certain players need to be given the freedom to play offense and score. i feel grachev is one of them. time will tell if he ever does fully develop.

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Old
10-21-2010, 03:55 PM
  #56
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Frolov, Anisimov and Grachev for Brad Richards..... CYALATERBYE

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:01 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Frolov, Anisimov and Grachev for Brad Richards..... CYALATERBYE
absolutely not...r u a stars fan

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:01 PM
  #58
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from what i saw of him in preseason he reminded me a lot Hugh Jessiman. meaning he showed a big body and not much else.

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:39 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Puckface Avery View Post
absolutely not...r u a stars fan
No, I'm a fan of good players that make plays and show up every single night. I'd move those 3 in a NY minute for Richards. I'd pack their bags....

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:49 PM
  #60
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He has shown nothing.

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:51 PM
  #61
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He doesn't have the same trade value as he did last year. Sure he might pan out but it's looking good at the moment. Hopefully for our sake, that changes in a hurry!

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10-21-2010, 04:59 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
No, I'm a fan of good players that make plays and show up every single night. I'd move those 3 in a NY minute for Richards. I'd pack their bags....
Two words for you: Salary Cap.

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Old
10-21-2010, 04:59 PM
  #63
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He's a work in progress.

It's called patience, which is something most 17 year olds don't possess.

Relax, and look at things like this: If Grachev becomes what we hope, boom. We have a top-6 forward with size, speed and skill.

If he doesn't pan out, we're in the same situation we're in now.

If he develops halfway, then we have a two-way third-liner.

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10-21-2010, 05:05 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
did he really have that bad of a camp last year?

i thought i remeber him looking decent in preseason and everyone bugging out when he was sent to the pack

then he had a dissapointing season, krieder became the new boy wonder, and now grachev is tossed into trade proposals as the new "expendable" prospect

i think more time is needed...he's young, and it will be HUGE for this franchise if he ends being pretty good
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
If i recall correctly this was only the second training camp that he participated in. AND he was also one of the last cuts from camp in his first training camp. Where are you getting that he had another bad camp? This year he didnt standout the way he was hoping to, but then again, hes still young. 20 years old. people need to really chill out. Yes Del Zotto and Stepan have made the NHL at either a younger age or the same age but that happens all over the NHL. Grachev needs time, I'm not sure what kind of game hes being told to play in hartford but he might need to be put in a better offensive situation and to be given the freedom to just go and not concentrate solely on defense. It seems that the organization always emphasizes defense in Hartford but when you have offensive players such as MZA and Grachev the organization really just has to let the reigns loose and let them play offense.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
They need to let him run around and try to score. Developing offense is more important at this age than defense.

There are many players who are bad defensively until they are 23-24, and tremendous when they are 28-29. Think Brian Leetch. He was a disaster defensively as a youth, and later in his career his defense was at least as good, maybe better than his offense.

Scoring would also give him some self-confidence. If he has a bad year now, it might ruin him for a while. I'm almost thinking he should go to the ECHL to get his confidence up, score, defend, etc., and then get back up after a couple of weeks.
And especially this.

Grachev has obviously been a favorite of mine for a while. The reason is that I watched hours of video of him at Brampton. Now, this was not because I had just arbitrarily decided that he would be my favorite prospect that I would champion from the early days, but rather because I watched some of him play, became intrigued, watched more, etc. - it basically became a self fulfilling cycle.

What I loved about him there was not that he was just bigger and stronger than everyone else - obviously I knew that some of that aspect is simply due to the fact that you have 16 year olds playing in the OHL (although even in the AHL he's bigger than almost everyone on the ice). No, what I loved about him was his attacking game. He was a monster on offense - on the rush, getting the puck into open space, passing, sniping from the faceoff circle... The only things he didn't really do that you might expect a player of his size to do was a) crush people and b) camp out in front of the net for garbage goals. He was also good on defense. But again, it wasn't perhaps the physical defense that you would expect, but more the positional and speed defense that you see from a player like Gabby, for instance.

When I watch him now, I don't know what the hell is going on. He lacks that attacking, aggressive mentality. He looks to be thinking the game, playing conservative, trying to work the boards, tentatively trying to hit guys. Whatever it is, he certainly isn't doing what he used to do, which was to take the puck and look to make a play on offense.

Personally, and I know I've said this before, I blame Gernander. I am terrified that Gernander is the type of ex-heart-and-soul player that never really made it to the pros, who deep down resents the guys who had more talent, but didn't work as hard and were able to ride that talent to successful big league careers while he languished in the minors despite the fact that he "deserved" it more than they did. So, now as a coach, he insists that every player learn to play how HE played. We've heard from Leslie that they were trying to coach him to play a grinding game (are you ****ing kidding me?) and we've witnessed that when he plays in his system, he looks terrible. Grachev needs to play somewhere else, or more precisely for someONE else.

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:10 PM
  #65
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20 years old.

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10-21-2010, 05:12 PM
  #66
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Pros
- He's 20...
- Posted great numbers in OHL and has shown skill that is not dependent of his team mates although still works well with others.
- He's in his second season of AHL play and finally has firepower to work with (MZA/Kennedy)
- He's 20...
- In his first season in the AHL (1st Season of Professional US Hockey) on a beaten team, posted marginal numbers.
- Good size
- He's 20...

Cons
- Consecutive poor camps
- Iffy stats for his first Pro season
- Slow start to second season
- Has lost "Shiny New Toy" status and looks worse in comparison to himself 2 seasons ago (Which shouldn't discount the fact that he still put up those numbers) when in fact he is probably technically a better player.

Overall

I don't feel that it's as clear cut as people are saying... I don't believe that he's either a bust or boom prospect. In the OHL he displayed his skillset and proved it to be deadly, beyond a doubt. The problems that I have seen in camp (I haven't been able to catch Wolfpack games so PLEASE tell me if you disagree) Is that he is such a big guy he is finding hard to get open to utilize his shot.

The space on the ice is scarce with bigger bodies, faster skaters, quicker reflexes and reactions from better competition. He is finding it hard to get open with out drawing a player to him and hes not quite a shifty enough player to be able to weasel himself to being open. He's fast enough to get out of coverage but hes not slick enough to stay out of coverage. Until he figures out that careful balance he's going to have a hard time getting the space to pull off his shots and find ice to finish plays.

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:21 PM
  #67
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Pretty funny that a lot of people are seemingly so down on Grachev. Its really kinda unfair. He is only 20, as has been stated numerous times. There is definitely plenty of time for him to develop a niche as a power forward in the NHL. If he goes to the front of the net with, a player with his frame could easily dominate in those areas. Grachev could be exactly what this team is desperate for. A power forward that goes to the net and wreaks havoc there.

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:23 PM
  #68
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People were way too high on him to begin with. After one over-age season people were proclaiming him a lock for 30-30.

He's still a very nice prospect.

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:31 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
They need to let him run around and try to score. Developing offense is more important at this age than defense.

There are many players who are bad defensively until they are 23-24, and tremendous when they are 28-29. Think Brian Leetch. He was a disaster defensively as a youth, and later in his career his defense was at least as good, maybe better than his offense.

Scoring would also give him some self-confidence. If he has a bad year now, it might ruin him for a while. I'm almost thinking he should go to the ECHL to get his confidence up, score, defend, etc., and then get back up after a couple of weeks.
I absolutely agree. You've got a young player with size who could be a scorer--you let him take chances. You want him battling hard though and that also means taking some penalties. That's what power forwards do. So far he's holding back and I'm wondering if Gernander is part of the reason. Gernander as a player was a decent point producer at the AHL level but he was a safe player more than anything else and I'm wondering if he doesn't emphasize that too much as a coach. The other thing is Hartford really doesn't have that playmaker that Grachev would seem to need. Evgeni can bring the puck up the ice but he doesn't strike me as a play creator in the offensive end. The best fit for him would be using his size and finishing plays.

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:32 PM
  #70
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Just to set the record straight: I don't know where this "second straight bad camp" stuff is coming from. Grachev's first camp was excellent - although he didn't score, he was the last forward cut. If I were to categorize his performances so far, they would be:

Excellent:
- in junior 2 years ago
- at last year's camp
- at this year's rookie camp
- at this year's TC tournament

Just okay:
- at the WJC two years ago
- at last year's rookie camp
- at last year's TC tourney (IIRC)
- at the beginning of last year's AHL season
- at this year's training camp (started out well in scrimmages, faded badly in preseason games)

Bad:
- in the second half of last year's AHL season
- so far this AHL season

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:40 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Skills of a 3rd rounder? What the hell does that even mean? He wasn't drafted in the 3rd because of his skill. He was drafted there because he's a project, and there was also no guarantee that he would come to North America. He was ranked in the top 20 by ISS in April of 2008.

All he's showing that he's not on the super-star development curve that many YouTube surfers thought he was. The kid has skill with the puck, great speed, and a lethal shot, all wrapped up in a monstrous frame. He just needs to wrap his head around the pro game.

Since when did two years after their draft year become the "start freaking out" point? If you're not excited about a kid that was drafted in the 3rd round and could play in the NHL and score 25 goals, then I dunno what to tell ya.
Well said. I agree with this entire post. Let's give the kid a shot... Im still excited.

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:40 PM
  #72
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Can we let the kid develop and get a second full year of pro level hockey? He's only 20 for crying out loud.

The kid could go on a tear in 2 weeks, and we'll be talking about how great he is again for all we know.

I'm still excited for him and looking forward to seeing how he develops.

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Old
10-21-2010, 05:46 PM
  #73
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"OMG He's 20!" isn't a very convincing argument. There are 18 year olds in this league playing well.

I'm not saying he's a bust or anything, but if he has another underwhelming year, and a bad camp next year will the new argument be, "OMG he's only 21!"

Stick to the stats and empirical evidence of his gameplay.

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10-21-2010, 05:48 PM
  #74
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Certain types of players take longer to develop. Defensemen, goalies and power forwards. Grachev projects to hopefully be a Johan Franzen type of forward if he can put it all together. They take longer to develop and hone their strengths. People need to relax and stop micro-managing.

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10-21-2010, 06:01 PM
  #75
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Why is everyone saying "overage season"? He was older for winning the rookie of the year, but if he was still playing in the OHL now it would be his overage season.

He was the average age, much more players older then him then younger....Not to mention it was his first season in NA.

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