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Moves that will get Calgary to the next level

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Old
01-18-2005, 04:41 PM
  #301
HuskyFlames
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
From watching both I'd say that Wiemer's hands and skills are several notches below Simon's. Wiemer IMO shouldn't be any higher than the 4th line. Of course I'm judging Wiemer from his prior stint here, perhaps he's improved.
You are bang on. If his hands were better he would not have been a "waiver guy" last year. The difference between Simon and Wiemer are quite large. Wiemer is a 4th liner.

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01-18-2005, 04:43 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Regehr-Leopold
Phaneuf-Warrener
Lydman-Commodore/Montador

Anybody coming up with D combos should realize that Warrener, Montador and Commodore are the only right shooting defensemen on the team. I think the D is pretty hard to predict as well. These pairings came out of the thought that Regehr and Leo would continue to build on their chemistry and that Phaneuf would be paired with the most experienced right shooter instead of the relatively young Montador and Commodore. However if Playfair and Sutter decide to break up Regehr and Leopold then the combinations are endless.

I do believe that Phaneuf will not be babied into the lineup as the 6th/7th guy like some have suggested. I see him as running with a #4/#5 role relatively quickly.
No Ference???

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01-18-2005, 04:46 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
No Ference???
Oops

How quickly some players fade from memory when they're not playing...

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01-18-2005, 04:50 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
No Ference???
then there's the mystery man Anders "27 points" Eriksson

still interested to see what role if any he is expected to have with this team

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01-18-2005, 05:15 PM
  #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Actually both are natural RW'ers and have played only that position since being on the Flames.
Well Clark's only played for the Flames in pro hockey, so it seems fine to me.

I kept Donovan at his natural RW position.

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01-18-2005, 05:31 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Well Clark's only played for the Flames in pro hockey, so it seems fine to me.

I kept Donovan at his natural RW position.
So what are you saying? The guy has ONLY played RW for PRO hockey. Now, how can he so easily switch and be nearly as effective after playing so many years at one position. Clark has learnt the game as a RW, keep him there.

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01-18-2005, 06:07 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
So what are you saying? The guy has ONLY played RW for PRO hockey.
Which has been 6 years?

If he can play there, I really don't see what the big deal is.

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01-18-2005, 06:14 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Which has been 6 years?

If he can play there, I really don't see what the big deal is.
Clark plays well on the RW side. Why start making guys play on their off wing when we do not need to. I am not sure if you played hockey, but playing on your off wing isn't nearly as easy. Taking break out passes are harder, giving passes is harder, etc. The onyl thing easier is 1 timers but Clark is not there for offense.

While we are at it, lets put Iginla as center and Kobasew as LW.

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Old
01-18-2005, 06:19 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Which has been 6 years?

If he can play there, I really don't see what the big deal is.
I don't see him playing anywhere but RW personally.

Nieminen and Nilson probably both have far more experience playing the off-wing because of their development in Europe. Nieminen has played both wings for Calgary. And Nilson has played more of his off wing (LW) than RW. And based on a Sutter quote it sounds like he is favoured to play at LW next season.

Clark and Donovan are two of the only wingers who have exclusively played one position. Safe to say it's likely they'll both stay at RW.

I'd say Kobasew, Iginla, Gelinas, Nieminen, and Nilson are all far more likely to play the off wing.

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01-18-2005, 06:33 PM
  #310
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Chris Clark works his butt off night in and night out, but I don't think that you'd get much argument from most serious Flames fans that he's the worst player on the team.

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01-18-2005, 07:06 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
I'd say Kobasew, Iginla, Gelinas, Nieminen, and Nilson are all far more likely to play the off wing.
Kobasew was tried on LW (with Iginla) and failed miserably. Ditto Iginla who tried the LW (with Kobasew on the RW) and that failed miserably.

RE Clark: Here I was thinking that Clark couldn't pass or take passes at all

Just wondering, FDW, when was the last time he played on the LW? I think it was just the season before, on the 3rd line.

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01-18-2005, 07:11 PM
  #312
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he played LW in 2003 last, fourth line


the guy is a grinder but clearly wouldn't be missed

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01-18-2005, 07:14 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Clark plays well on the RW side. Why start making guys play on their off wing when we do not need to. I am not sure if you played hockey, but playing on your off wing isn't nearly as easy. Taking break out passes are harder, giving passes is harder, etc. The onyl thing easier is 1 timers but Clark is not there for offense.

While we are at it, lets put Iginla as center and Kobasew as LW.
Talk about making mountains out of molehills

I take one 4th line player, switch him to the other wing (which he has played before) and suddenly, I'm changing positions all over the place and putting Iginla at center? Ok...

You still have yet to justify why
- you think Lombardi will be a-ok after another knock to the noggin, just like any other player.
- why you keep on saying Sutter will ONLY play healthy players, when clearly he was pressuring Lydman into the lineup.
- why you pushed the idea of "team concept" when you thought it would be a bad idea to stick big guys with Lombardi and Kobasew, but suddenly its "ok" to forsake young Lombardi's career just to keep the Niemenen-Nilson-Donovan line together.

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01-18-2005, 07:18 PM
  #314
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It should be noted that Sutter "pressured Lydman" to get into the lineup when it was do or die time late in the playoffs and we were playing some guy named Brennan Evans.

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01-18-2005, 07:41 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrods Son
It should be noted that Sutter "pressured Lydman" to get into the lineup when it was do or die time late in the playoffs and we were playing some guy named Brennan Evans.
... and what a 31s shift he had!

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Old
01-18-2005, 07:42 PM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
You still have yet to justify why
- you think Lombardi will be a-ok after another knock to the noggin, just like any other player.
- why you keep on saying Sutter will ONLY play healthy players, when clearly he was pressuring Lydman into the lineup.
- why you pushed the idea of "team concept" when you thought it would be a bad idea to stick big guys with Lombardi and Kobasew, but suddenly its "ok" to forsake young Lombardi's career just to keep the Niemenen-Nilson-Donovan line together.
#1 - Like the post before me says, it was a crucial time during playoffs and it was win or lose situation and we needed some help.

#2 - I never said don't put Simon with the yougn guns. I have said it MANy times it was okay BUT not for Wiemer to be our #2 LW.

#3 - Lombardi is going to start skating with Lowell VERY soon. He is almsot ready to play. A concussion to ANY player is threatening and it can happen to any player. If Lombradi has to be babied then he is better off used as trade bait the way you are moving the lines around to protect him.

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01-18-2005, 07:46 PM
  #317
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The way I see it, and have said before:

Rhino - Langkow - Iginla
Simon - Lombardi - Kobasew
Nemo - Nilson - Donovan
Wiemer - Yelle - Clark

Extras: Ritchie, Lyons

This is assuming Gelinas is gone.

Now, if you look any playoff team, they have a very solid top line. The Flames finally have a top line that can contribute offensively, and more than 1 guy. Now, last season Sutter had high hopes for Kobasew. If he cannot deliver after another year of maturing then changes will have to be made. The FLames will most likely package 2 players togetehr for a top line guy.

IE - Clark and Lydman for a #2 RW and Kobasew gets put down to the #4 RW spot. Now I am not saying this is the player to get but if we need to make a trade, a guy who puts up similar numbers to David Vborny for the #2 RW spot is what the Flames will need if Kobasew cannot deliver.

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01-18-2005, 08:25 PM
  #318
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Chris Clark is far from garbage or the worst player on our team. His speed alone will keep him on a Sutter team. He creates chances on the 4th line hes a energy guy, but he does a good job getting the team going with his 10 goals a season. Its these types of players that win titles, when Jarome Iginla is being beaten down, its this guy on the checking line that come sin hits hard uses speed and scores the key goals like they did in Game 6.

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01-18-2005, 08:43 PM
  #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
#1 - Like the post before me says, it was a crucial time during playoffs and it was win or lose situation and we needed some help.

#2 - I never said don't put Simon with the yougn guns. I have said it MANy times it was okay BUT not for Wiemer to be our #2 LW.

#3 - Lombardi is going to start skating with Lowell VERY soon. He is almsot ready to play. A concussion to ANY player is threatening and it can happen to any player. If Lombradi has to be babied then he is better off used as trade bait the way you are moving the lines around to protect him.
1. But that aside, Sutter will NOT force an injured player (specifically concussion) to play, right?
2. But still doesn't address the comment where you didn't see a problem in Lombardi getting another concussion.
3. Yes, 8 months later and he is almost ready to start practising with the minor league affiliate. That must mean he's a-ok and is ready to take some pounding to the noggin!

A concussion can happen to any player yadda yadda yadda, but you keep on missing the fact that Lombardi's is more serious then the brush-off-shoulder you insinuate. Again, just 3 months ago, it was feared by many hockey analysts that Lombardi's career might be over. Of coarse, that means to you that when he's alright, play him with another relitively small forward and throw him to the wolves. Yeah, Simon can offer some muscle to the line, but the less physical punishment Lombardi has to take, the better.

As for "babying him" well... I really don't think its a smart idea to play him with a another young player, thats all. I really don't see why playing him with a couple vet's is such a bad idea. Personally, I think it would be only common sense to let Lombardi get the legs under him for a little bit and let him fill out a bit more before throwing him out with another player still filling out.

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Old
01-18-2005, 08:48 PM
  #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Now, if you look any playoff team, they have a very solid top line. The Flames finally have a top line that can contribute offensively, and more than 1 guy. Now, last season Sutter had high hopes for Kobasew. If he cannot deliver after another year of maturing then changes will have to be made. The FLames will most likely package 2 players togetehr for a top line guy.
Really?

Montreal and Nashville are two examples of teams teams that didn't have to load up their front line (forget the Flames). Comparing the teams that xxx(Nilson)-Rhineprecht/Langkow-Iginla, I'd say the Flames have very solid line that could match any of the playoff teams last year.

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Old
01-18-2005, 09:08 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatman Phanutier
Really?

Montreal and Nashville are two examples of teams teams that didn't have to load up their front line (forget the Flames). Comparing the teams that xxx(Nilson)-Rhineprecht/Langkow-Iginla, I'd say the Flames have very solid line that could match any of the playoff teams last year.
And neither team are solid playoff teams. Nashville finally made it and and Montreal is a bubble team.

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01-18-2005, 09:10 PM
  #322
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OMG, once AGAIN Lombradi will ONLY play when he is ready. He will not be forced into playing realy. Playing him with 2 veterans or 1 veteran and a rookie needing top 6 icetime will make NO difference in whether or not someone guy will want to run him. Next time Hatcher comes, do you think he wills top and say "hey you play with 2 veterans, so I should not hit you"? Hell no. I can't believe how you can't understand it. If someone wants to hit Lombradi, THEY WILL.

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01-18-2005, 09:42 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
And neither team are solid playoff teams. Nashville finally made it and and Montreal is a bubble team.
And I quote,

"Now, if you look any playoff team, they have a very solid top line."

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01-18-2005, 09:46 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
OMG, once AGAIN Lombradi will ONLY play when he is ready. He will not be forced into playing realy. Playing him with 2 veterans or 1 veteran and a rookie needing top 6 icetime will make NO difference in whether or not someone guy will want to run him. Next time Hatcher comes, do you think he wills top and say "hey you play with 2 veterans, so I should not hit you"? Hell no. I can't believe how you can't understand it. If someone wants to hit Lombradi, THEY WILL.
You state that like its a fact? Well I already disproved your little theory there that Sutter ONLY dresses healthy players. Sorry to burst your bubble, but your opinions arn't a fact.

Playing him with Simon will make no difference when (eg Hatcher) runs at him? Ok then...

Oh, and just for you once again, since you missed it (again): The point of putting physical wingers with Lombardi (and 2 physical players with Kobasew) was to alliviate physical pounding in the corners and such. It was to create open space for Lombardi and Kobasew. This isn't rocket science, Patrick. (Although maybe you might understand rocket science better? I understand quantum mechanics better then your attempts to try and convince me that past history has no bearing on a concussion...)

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01-18-2005, 10:40 PM
  #325
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For the guy that says Clark is not the worst player on the team, who is then? Name someone, anyone, who is worse than Clark (please don't say brennan evans or lynn loyns, I'm talking guys with one way contracts who are in the lineup every night like Clark is)

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