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Canucks will move Bieksa ASAP

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Old
10-24-2010, 02:51 PM
  #251
Canucker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walgrove View Post
What about this trade which I think will help all teams involved:
3 way Vcr-Mtl-Philly

1)Montreal gets Luongo and Bieksa (cap hit around 9 million). Bieksa adds grit they need and Luongo would only waive his no trade/movement to his hometown where his parents live

2)Philly gets: Hamrlik,Rypien, Hodgson, Mtl first 2011,Vcr 1st round 2011 and choice of prospect in Mtl organization and benefits from some cap relief they really need. Cap hit around $6M and Hamrlik off books end of year. Gives them room at trade deadline to accept cap heavy contract

3) Vancouver gets Carter, Price and Carcillo Cap hit around 8.5M

Sedin-Sedin- Burrows
Raymond-Carter-Kesler
Torres-Malhotra-Samuelsson
Hansen-Tambellini/Bolduc-Carcillo

We add grit, youth at goalie position for years and best top 6 in the league IMO...
Hell no...While I like Carter, I'm definitely not a big Price fan and Carcillo is a big no thanks. So giving up Luongo (which i have no problem with for the right price), Hodgson, Bieksa, Rypien AND a 1st round pick for that package ain't even close.

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Old
10-24-2010, 03:04 PM
  #252
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I guess ASAP is really really long....

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10-24-2010, 03:06 PM
  #253
Winroba
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Originally Posted by lundy30 View Post
I guess ASAP is really really long....
Well it's as soon as POSSIBLE and we're currently missing three of our top 4 defenceman. So it's not exactly possible as of yet...

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10-24-2010, 03:21 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
Hell no...While I like Carter, I'm definitely not a big Price fan and Carcillo is a big no thanks. So giving up Luongo (which i have no problem with for the right price), Hodgson, Bieksa, Rypien AND a 1st round pick for that package ain't even close.
You have to remember, we get two high first round picks (Carter and Price) backs and some grit on on easy contract and we get rid of a near $4M albatross in Bieksa. The draft picks we'll have for next 3-5 years are likely high 20 something picks in the first round and we want to win now not in 3-5 years...
Impact of Carter>Luongo (assuming we have Price and Scneider to push each other)
Impact of Price>Hodgson based on who we already have (plus if he doesnt find a spot this year he likely wont be a center for us next year anyways (he will never be happy as a 4th liner )
Impact of Carcillo> Rypien
Bieksa goes when salo is back anyways and we lose his salary cap burden...
Impact of Carcillo>

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10-24-2010, 03:22 PM
  #255
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The problem with Bieksa is how he is managed. He is given far too much responsibility and ice time (especially on special teams) by the coaching staff. I think Bieksa's problem is that he's too over confident in his somewhat limited abilities and nobody has been able to, or been willing to address this. He can be a decent offensive defenseman when paired with a stay at home guy who will cover up for his brain farts. Even though he is undersized he can provide an element of toughness, even though I think that he thinks he's "too important" to get involved. His defensive play is currently very sub par, he wasn't this bad when he first broke into the league. He's always had issues but they were never this pronounced. So IMO Bieksa isn't as offensively skilled as MA Bergeron but he's not as bad defensively (this in no way implies that Bieksa is leaps and bounds ahead of Bergeron). I think under a new coaching regime, if Bieksa could tone down the overconfidence/ego he could actually get better unstead of regressing. Under AV's influence he's not going to be a benefit to this team and it's more likely to see Bieksa gone than AV at this point.

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10-24-2010, 03:23 PM
  #256
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how many months does ASAP last for?

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Old
10-24-2010, 03:37 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walgrove View Post
You have to remember, we get two high first round picks (Carter and Price) backs and some grit on on easy contract and we get rid of a near $4M albatross in Bieksa. The draft picks we'll have for next 3-5 years are likely high 20 something picks in the first round and we want to win now not in 3-5 years...
Impact of Carter>Luongo (assuming we have Price and Scneider to push each other)
Impact of Price>Hodgson based on who we already have (plus if he doesnt find a spot this year he likely wont be a center for us next year anyways (he will never be happy as a 4th liner )
Impact of Carcillo> Rypien
Bieksa goes when salo is back anyways and we lose his salary cap burden...
Impact of Carcillo>
I'm not a big Bieksa fan...at all, but his contract is over after this season and at a $3.75m/year cap hit it's hardly an albatross. Especially since there are teams that have been rumored to be interested in him.
Like I said, I like Carter but after this year he's an rfa and who knows what he's going to make. I also don't agree that Carter is guaranteed to have a bigger impact on this team than Luongo could. There are also no guarantees that Price won't get boo'ed out of Vancouver too and as much as I like Corey Schneider it's a little much to expect him to carry a team with Cup aspirations.
I think Hodgson is a tradeable piece but I wouldn't trade him right now unless it was an overpayment, I think he's going to be more valuable once he gets his legs and timing back in the AHL and will prove to be a very good NHL'er.
I'm not a fan of Carcillo so I'll leave that alone.
So all in all I'm not in favour of the trade even if the draft pick wasn't involved.

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Old
10-24-2010, 03:44 PM
  #258
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Is Bieksa the new Kaberle. Months of speculation, with no trade?

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10-24-2010, 05:04 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by bonzaibondra12 View Post
Is Bieksa the new Kaberle. Months of speculation, with no trade?
Not really... Vancouver never said they were ever even thinking about trading Bieksa.

When Gillis was signing free agents, he specifically said "Bieksa isn't going anywhere"

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10-24-2010, 05:45 PM
  #260
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Is Beika to Gillis like DW and Wallin?


Because if so. You guys have my condolences. No fan base should be put through that.

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Old
10-24-2010, 07:22 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Is Beika to Gillis like DW and Wallin?


Because if so. You guys have my condolences. No fan base should be put through that.
I don't think Gillis has any strong feelings towards Bieksa one way or another. It's mostly Vineault the coach's doing. He gets top line minutes with Hamhuis because he had his best season with Mitchell and Hamhuis & Mitchell are both very aware defensively so Kevin could do his thing. At the very least, it pads his stats so that he'll look better for trading.

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10-24-2010, 08:17 PM
  #262
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Meh, he's getting traded, there's no way around it. Unless the Canucks are planning to keep Salo on LTIR the whole year or circumvent the cap...

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Old
10-24-2010, 08:32 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
I don't think Gillis has any strong feelings towards Bieksa one way or another.
The buck stops with Gillis and he's had many opportunities to trade him. He's stated many times teams have called to ask about Bieksa but he's always turned them down.

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10-24-2010, 08:52 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
The buck stops with Gillis and he's had many opportunities to trade him. He's stated many times teams have called to ask about Bieksa but he's always turned them down.
Yeah but why trade him if our depth is depleated and he's getting terrible offers?

Making a trade just to make a trade is stupid and despite what everyone on HF thinks, he's worth far more than what people anticipate.

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10-24-2010, 09:13 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walgrove View Post
What about this trade which I think will help all teams involved:
3 way Vcr-Mtl-Philly

1)Montreal gets Luongo and Bieksa (cap hit around 9 million). Bieksa adds grit they need and Luongo would only waive his no trade/movement to his hometown where his parents live

2)Philly gets: Hamrlik,Rypien, Hodgson, Mtl first 2011,Vcr 1st round 2011 and choice of prospect in Mtl organization and benefits from some cap relief they really need. Cap hit around $6M and Hamrlik off books end of year. Gives them room at trade deadline to accept cap heavy contract

3) Vancouver gets Carter, Price and Carcillo Cap hit around 8.5M

Sedin-Sedin- Burrows
Raymond-Carter-Kesler
Torres-Malhotra-Samuelsson
Hansen-Tambellini/Bolduc-Carcillo

We add grit, youth at goalie position for years and best top 6 in the league IMO...
Philly fan or what...

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:22 PM
  #266
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Bieksa lifetime Stats: 29 yrs old, 6'1" 198 lbs., .42 PPG / +4 lifetime,
3.5 M cap hit, UFA (willing to resign with new team)
Ballard lifetime Stats: 27 yrs old, 5'11", 208 lbs., .37 PPG / -12 lifetime, 4 more yrs @ 4.2 M cap hit.
Canucks / Gillis will not and can not trade Bieksa until he (extends his contract at a lower cap hit) is offered something in the range of what they gave up for Ballard ~ a 1st round pick, a good prospect and a roster player (the way Bieksa's playing now not very likely). If Gillis can't get those assets for Bieksa then Vigneault will continue giving him top pairing and PP minutes to pad his stats trying to get what he wants in trade otherwise they'll just keep him.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:25 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
Bieksa lifetime Stats: 29 yrs old, 6'1" 198 lbs., .42 PPG / +4 lifetime,
3.5 M cap hit, UFA (willing to resign with new team)
Ballard lifetime Stats: 27 yrs old, 5'11", 208 lbs., .37 PPG / -12 lifetime, 4 more yrs @ 4.2 M cap hit.
Canucks / Gillis will not and can not trade Bieksa until he (extends his contract at a lower cap hit) is offered something in the range of what they gave up for Ballard ~ a 1st round pick, a good prospect and a roster player (the way Bieksa's playing now not very likely). If Gillis can't get those assets for Bieksa then Vigneault will continue giving him top pairing and PP minutes to pad his stats trying to get what he wants in trade otherwise they'll just keep him.
actually no, we cant keep him when salo comes back

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:27 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBeautiful View Post
Bieksa lifetime Stats: 29 yrs old, 6'1" 198 lbs., .42 PPG / +4 lifetime,
3.5 M cap hit, UFA (willing to resign with new team)
Ballard lifetime Stats: 27 yrs old, 5'11", 208 lbs., .37 PPG / -12 lifetime, 4 more yrs @ 4.2 M cap hit.
Canucks / Gillis will not and can not trade Bieksa until he (extends his contract at a lower cap hit) is offered something in the range of what they gave up for Ballard ~ a 1st round pick, a good prospect and a roster player (the way Bieksa's playing now not very likely). If Gillis can't get those assets for Bieksa then Vigneault will continue giving him top pairing and PP minutes to pad his stats trying to get what he wants in trade otherwise they'll just keep him.
Lifetime stats means very little.
Bieksa may have been a good player in the past, but currently he isn't worth what the Canucks gave up for Ballard.

Also, Ballard has been playing on non-playoff teams for his whole career and plays more of a defensive game than Bieksa.

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10-24-2010, 10:28 PM
  #269
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If Salo comes back, when Salo comes back

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10-25-2010, 12:33 AM
  #270
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Isn't it better to keep Bieksa giving him bottom pair time when Hamhuis and Ballard comes back, than bumping someone else down for Salo to log minutes? He's most likely gonna break again, and after all a Bieksa surely must be better to have than a Rome or Alberts when Salo is out. Both are off the books soon, why gamble with the injured one.

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10-25-2010, 12:38 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Isn't it better to keep Bieksa giving him bottom pair time when Hamhuis and Ballard comes back, than bumping someone else down for Salo to log minutes? He's most likely gonna break again, and after all a Bieksa surely must be better to have than a Rome or Alberts when Salo is out. Both are off the books soon, why gamble with the injured one.
Can't have a $3.75 million dollar defenceman playing 14 minutes a game... if anyone over $3 million on the Canucks is playing sheltered minutes, it's going to be Salo, since the man is literally grafted from sand.

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10-25-2010, 12:46 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Isn't it better to keep Bieksa giving him bottom pair time when Hamhuis and Ballard comes back, than bumping someone else down for Salo to log minutes? He's most likely gonna break again, and after all a Bieksa surely must be better to have than a Rome or Alberts when Salo is out. Both are off the books soon, why gamble with the injured one.
You don't understand our coach.

If Bieksa is in the lineup he is getting 20 minutes + in game time. He'll get PK time on top of that. AV has no clue how to use Bieksa properly and seems to think by giving him more responsibility he'll break out, this has not been the case. Alberts and Rome have both out played him by far this season, and Ryan Parent has been decent as well. In a salary cap world you just can't have a 3.75M Dman that is a depth 3rd pairing guy.

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10-25-2010, 12:51 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Saren View Post
Can't have a $3.75 million dollar defenceman playing 14 minutes a game... if anyone over $3 million on the Canucks is playing sheltered minutes, it's going to be Salo, since the man is literally grafted from sand.
One way or another, a $3.5M+ defenceman will play reduced minutes, which is what I'm saying. I just thought Bieksa would be a more logical choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
You don't understand our coach.

If Bieksa is in the lineup he is getting 20 minutes + in game time. He'll get PK time on top of that. AV has no clue how to use Bieksa properly and seems to think by giving him more responsibility he'll break out, this has not been the case. Alberts and Rome have both out played him by far this season, and Ryan Parent has been decent as well. In a salary cap world you just can't have a 3.75M Dman that is a depth 3rd pairing guy.
Fair enough. But with Bieksa gone and Salo in, there will be a a depth guy making 3.5+ anyways. And if Salo remains on LTIR there will be no use of that money anyways, expect for a deadline move. It's a one season move going for a cup.

Also if Bieksa would log 20+ with Ehroff, Edler, Hamhuis, Ballard in who the hell would be demoted? The backbone of the D last year and two fresh signings right there..

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10-25-2010, 12:54 AM
  #274
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One way or another, a $3.5M+ defenceman will play reduced minutes, which is what I'm saying. I just thought Bieksa would be a more logical choice.
Bieksa is never the choice, nevermind the logical one. He is never the answer, or the substitute. If we have to make a choice between keeping Salo or Bieksa, it's going to be Salo 11/10 times.

That's just me, though.

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10-25-2010, 01:00 AM
  #275
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Bieksa is never the choice, nevermind the logical one. He is never the answer, or the substitute. If we have to make a choice between keeping Salo or Bieksa, it's going to be Salo 11/10 times.

That's just me, though.
Trust me, Salo is a 11/10 times decision for me too if it wasn't that he is injury riddled and that it's one year. Or will Salo be re-signed? Would you be fine going with say Rome and Alberts then for a season AND playoffs if Salo remains injured.. or would you wait and see with happens with Salo and make yet another move at the deadline? Because I think it's pretty clear that Canucks are making a legit push for Stanley Cup.

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