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Fire Howson Thread

View Poll Results: Should Scott Howson be fired?
Yes 85 59.03%
No 59 40.97%
Voters: 144. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-24-2010, 03:25 PM
  #51
Crede777
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Perhaps they will succeed under a different owner in a new city. That's the most likely scenario unless major changes take place.
No way the NHL allows the Jackets to relocate. Columbus draws pretty big tv ratings and attendance numbers considering its proximity to Chicago, Detroit, and Pittsburgh.

Columbus (and Ohio) are too large of a market to remain untapped. Sure we aren't great, but then there are teams with bigger problems. For example, Phoenix, Florida, and Atlanta.

Aside from that, no way Nationwide allows for the Jackets to leave. They aren't going to be left sitting empty handed with a building in the middle of downtown Columbus.

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10-24-2010, 04:21 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
No way the NHL allows the Jackets to relocate. Columbus draws pretty big tv ratings and attendance numbers considering its proximity to Chicago, Detroit, and Pittsburgh.

Columbus (and Ohio) are too large of a market to remain untapped. Sure we aren't great, but then there are teams with bigger problems. For example, Phoenix, Florida, and Atlanta.

Aside from that, no way Nationwide allows for the Jackets to leave. They aren't going to be left sitting empty handed with a building in the middle of downtown Columbus.
If the fans stay away the losses will deepen. An average NHL franchise needs to generate $30-35 million above their player payroll to break even. According to NHLnumbers.com, the CBJ have a current payroll of $57.1 million.

http://nhlnumbers.com/teams/CLB?year=2011

That means they need to generate $87-$92 million in annual revenues. If the CBJ average say 14,000 fans @ $50/ticket (not likely right now), that's $700,000 per game for 41 home games or $28.7 million. If you want I can dissect their entire revenue stream. I've done it before. Bottom line, this team can easily lose $25 million annually with attendance averaging in the 11-12,000 range. Now Mac McConnell can't sustain that. According to public records, his TOTAL net worth is in the $200 million range.

If the CBJ begin to lose more money than the current ownership group can handle, who will buy them and keep them here?

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10-24-2010, 04:53 PM
  #53
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That's obviously only one source of revenue, leek. Media, concessions, merchandise, revenue sharing, for example, are still on the table. But point taken.

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10-24-2010, 05:03 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
That's obviously only one source of revenue, leek. Media, concessions, merchandise, revenue sharing, for example, are still on the table. But point taken.
I didn't want to bore everyone with a complete pro-forma, but I've actually done it. The Jackets with higher attendance (15,000 average) but no playoff revenues take in revenues in the $70-75 million range. I can post a complete breakout. I have their media rights fees, actual revenue sharing numbers etc. There is a plethora of financial data out there on NHL franchise costs and revenues.

I also have actual numbers from court filings for Phoenix and Nashville.

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10-24-2010, 07:07 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
I didn't want to bore everyone with a complete pro-forma, but I've actually done it. The Jackets with higher attendance (15,000 average) but no playoff revenues take in revenues in the $70-75 million range. I can post a complete breakout. I have their media rights fees, actual revenue sharing numbers etc. There is a plethora of financial data out there on NHL franchise costs and revenues.

I also have actual numbers from court filings for Phoenix and Nashville.
Wow. Are you stalking this franchise? LOL

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10-24-2010, 09:32 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
I didn't want to bore everyone with a complete pro-forma, but I've actually done it.
Not sure if I believe you have all that information, but frankly I don't care either. The NHLPA claims that don't have that type of information for CBA negotiations so I don't think it's a matter of public record. The point is, the Jackets revenue stream is not even completive with other NHL franchises even before we consider a reduced STH base.

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10-24-2010, 10:45 PM
  #57
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As many questions and complaints I have, I'm giving then until December before I go balastik. Last night's win v. Chicago showed me something I didn't think they had.

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10-24-2010, 11:51 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
If the fans stay away the losses will deepen. An average NHL franchise needs to generate $30-35 million above their player payroll to break even. According to NHLnumbers.com, the CBJ have a current payroll of $57.1 million.

http://nhlnumbers.com/teams/CLB?year=2011

That means they need to generate $87-$92 million in annual revenues. If the CBJ average say 14,000 fans @ $50/ticket (not likely right now), that's $700,000 per game for 41 home games or $28.7 million. If you want I can dissect their entire revenue stream. I've done it before. Bottom line, this team can easily lose $25 million annually with attendance averaging in the 11-12,000 range. Now Mac McConnell can't sustain that. According to public records, his TOTAL net worth is in the $200 million range.

If the CBJ begin to lose more money than the current ownership group can handle, who will buy them and keep them here?
You're completely ignoring the precedent set by the Phoenix case. The team will not be moved, even if it is sold, as the NHL does not allow for owners to buy a team with the explicit intent of moving the franchise.

Instead, the league will hold onto the team until a buyer is brought forth who is willing to keep the team in the city it currently resides in.

Bettman has made it known on numerous occasions that, if there is to be a team in Hamilton, Quebec City, or anywhere else, it will be an expansion team and not a relocation. If it is a relocation, it'll be from Phoenix or Florida.

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10-25-2010, 07:15 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RBarRegular View Post

Of our defensemen, how many would play for other teams in the league? Russell? Hejda? Klesla? Oh, and as I recall GMSH threw a lot of cash at Wade Redden in the summer of 08. Plus, and maybe I'm unfair, I just can't stand watching Fedor Tyutin play hockey anymore.

I just don't get not making a play on Souray. What are we afraid of? What are we waiting for? In fairness, I'm not in the room. Maybe we did try and it just didn't work out.

The culture here seems so bad that no one can thrive. Brassard would be better elsewhere. Filatov, Huselius, hell even Nash could probably go somewhere like Pittsburgh or Philly and win the Richard again. Fire Howson.
All of them would play on any other team. As far as Tyutin....you must not be watching the same thing I am.

You guys harp the **** out of him, but praise Methot/Hejda/Klesla/Stralman who make those weak little flip passes. That 2 on 1 against Calgary..Stralman didn't commit to either player and left Mase out to dry. You either take away the passing lane, or take the puck....anyone who has played hockey can you tell you that. You don't just sit back.

I don't think Souray would have solved any issues on this team. In fact, I am glad they didn't go after him. The guy has minor upsides, and a lot of downsides. You think Commie is bad and slow...just wait until you see Souray.

I agree, I think the culture/heart/drive/desire is not in the room. I think Nash is a horrible leader. How can any of the young guys look up to a guy who cherry picks the blue line, doesn't finish his checks, and in general doesn't say more than 2 words.

I am also still not sold on Brassard. He has started looking up, but my god, to throw 3.5 million at the kid, after seeing him play 30 games was a mistake and a half.

In general I agree, Howson should be fired.

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10-25-2010, 07:57 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
I agree, I think the culture/heart/drive/desire is not in the room. I think Nash is a horrible leader. How can any of the young guys look up to a guy who cherry picks the blue line,
lol, ok.

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10-25-2010, 08:10 AM
  #61
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lol, ok.
You disagree? I think the lack of heart is quite evident.

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10-25-2010, 08:45 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
You disagree? I think the lack of heart is quite evident.
I think he's inconsistent.

But the part I was laughing at was the cherry picking part. Even if what you said is true, which I don't agree with, the young players aren't going to not respect someone who has reached the 40 goal mark. Twice. And has 230 goals already in his career. One who also has a reputation as a pretty good two way player and was used in such a way in the Olympics.

Just saying.

And I still want to fire Howson.

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10-25-2010, 09:01 AM
  #63
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Not defending Howson here, but for those who want to see him fired, who should replace him? Feel free to fill me in on who could turn this team around.

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10-25-2010, 09:06 AM
  #64
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I don't post regularly because in part of a want to avoid most of the fray, but a thread like this so early in a season is pretty silly for a team that even after the Chicago loss was at .500.

I recognize the point that this is the 3rd season Mr. Howson has been with the club. I also recognize the point that the team made very few changes coming out of last years 14th place debacle. With that said, I think some people overlook that a similar roster was in the playoffs the year before with a boatload of rookies.

People might say it's "hooey", but last year we saw a "Sophomore Season" out of a majority of the young jackets, specifically Mason and Brassard. Voracek had a good season overall, but he had long stretches without scoring as well. Sophomore Slumps are a very oversimplified attempt to describe players adaptation to the NHL game, but it's a very real phenomenon. Players come in with skills and moves that worked before, and they work in a rookie season because no one knows what to expect out of you. No matter how much film you've studied, it's not until you play against someone that you really know their tendancies. Plus, I think players in the NHL have a predilection to underestimate newcomers to the league. During that second season, other teams know your tricks (Remember Zherdev and his toe drag turnovers in his second season?), so it's harder to get by and you have to adapt. Some manage it sooner than others. Some don't get a chance to really make the changes until the offseason.

As for what Howson did and didn't do during the offseason, my guess is that financially the team is up against its budget due to attendance woes. The only major deal out there for this team was to acquire Souray, and frankly I'm not terribly disappointed that we didn't. Sure, Commodore hasn't done much for the club yet, but Commie is known to be a good locker room guy, and when healthy is not the worst defenseman in the league. His offensive upside is limited and he isn't a strong fit for Arniels system. That said, what we gain from Souray in offense, we give up in defense, and if things don't go well, he's toxic in the room.

Sure, Howson hasn't performed a lot of magic yet, and there's been some status quo. I think letting Malhotra go was a mistake, but our third line has done well this year prior to Moreaus' freak injury which no one could have predicted.

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10-25-2010, 09:32 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Not defending Howson here, but for those who want to see him fired, who should replace him? Feel free to fill me in on who could turn this team around.
<sifts through my resume of potential GM's>

Yeah, not sure what that has to do with anything unless you just looking to discuss the long list of other potential (mostly retread) GM's out there. I don't expect Howson's termination this year. Hopefully I never see it, no matter how much I would like it to happen.

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10-25-2010, 09:35 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by CBJFan#1 View Post
I don't post regularly because in part of a want to avoid most of the fray, but a thread like this so early in a season is pretty silly for a team that even after the Chicago loss was at .500.
Thanks for posting!

You did notice that a lot of people were wanting to fire him, or were on the fence, before the season started right?

Please don't confuse knee jerk fans with those that have formed their opinion over a long period of time. When you not careful, you may get reactions you may not like. People who have a long list of issues with Howson may not like being called silly.

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10-25-2010, 09:38 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
<sifts through my resume of potential GM's>

Yeah, not sure what that has to do with anything unless you just looking to discuss the long list of other potential (mostly retread) GM's out there.
I'm not - but presumably if Howson is fired, he'll be replaced. I mean, I'm not CBJ ownership or management, so I can't say for certain...

Although I get your point that, if someone has done a poor enough job to get fired, the replacement will likely be an improvement regardless of who it is.

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10-25-2010, 09:45 AM
  #68
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Columbus Blue Jackets

Scott howson needs to make this team better beacause I don't think he gives a crap about his team guys like Brassard should be the AHL or traded Voracek should be in the AHL Nash should being a acting like a ture leader what happened to him this season so far.Its time this makes some moves they lots of young prospects like young defenceman that they can trade.

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10-25-2010, 09:56 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassť View Post
Although I get your point that, if someone has done a poor enough job to get fired, the replacement will likely be an improvement regardless of who it is.
No, I was mainly just saying we'll revisit the same retread discussion we've had before. This feels like a stir the pot moment. May not be, but it feels like it.

Let's evaluate Howson on his performance and not try and muddy the water with a grass may not be greener approach. We are certainly aware that is a possibility.

It could also simply be that the poster isn't aware of who might be available, as well, and be totally harmless. That's kind of why I left it open ended with the hope of clarification.

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10-25-2010, 10:05 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I think he's inconsistent.

But the part I was laughing at was the cherry picking part. Even if what you said is true, which I don't agree with, the young players aren't going to not respect someone who has reached the 40 goal mark. Twice. And has 230 goals already in his career. One who also has a reputation as a pretty good two way player and was used in such a way in the Olympics.

Just saying.

And I still want to fire Howson.
Having played in Semi-Pro Sports before, I don't care what your accomplishments are or have been. If you don't go out and compete and have the "I am better than this, because of X" type of attitude, no one will respect you.

The perfect example of Nash being lazy comes on Friday night the Rene Bourque SHG. Nash makes 1 lazy attempt to stick check Bourque, and then stops skating. While Antoine Vermette is skating with him and trying to take the puck, Nash gave up. Your own Captain GIVES UP on a play.

Watch the highlight if you don't believe me:

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...3&event=CBJ264

I have been saying this for years now. Nash is a lazy player, who has an attitude that he is better than his teammates. If Nash had 1/10 the intensity Alex Ovechkin or Sidney Crosby had, he would be one hell of a player...but he doesn't.

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10-25-2010, 10:09 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
No, I was mainly just saying we'll revisit the same retread discussion we've had before. This feels like a stir the pot moment. May not be, but it feels like it.

Let's evaluate Howson on his performance and not try and muddy the water with a grass may not be greener approach. We are certainly aware that is a possibility.

It could also simply be that the poster isn't aware of who might be available, as well, and be totally harmless. That's kind of why I left it open ended with the hope of clarification.
Of course we're evaluating Howson on his performance, but this isn't the "evaluate Howson on his performance" thread. So there's a presumption that, if he ought to be fired, he'll have to be replaced. And he should be replaced by someone who can do a better job (or who it is thought can do a better job). If not, why fire? So either a) that someone should be identified or b) we don't need to identify that someone because, well, how could they not be better regardless.

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10-25-2010, 10:15 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
No, I was mainly just saying we'll revisit the same retread discussion we've had before. This feels like a stir the pot moment. May not be, but it feels like it.

Let's evaluate Howson on his performance and not try and muddy the water with a grass may not be greener approach. We are certainly aware that is a possibility.

It could also simply be that the poster isn't aware of who might be available, as well, and be totally harmless. That's kind of why I left it open ended with the hope of clarification.
I'll be clear; I'm stirring the pot here.

Again, I'm not defending Howson here; I'm just trying to sift out the "throw the bum out" folks from those who actually have a realistic candidate in mind who they feel would right the ship. It's one thing to scream "Fire Howson"; it's another to say "Fire Howson and replace him with "Alternative GM #1". Emphasis on realistic; for example, Scotty Bowman ain't coming to Columbus.

The other thing here is: Do we really want to be in the awkward position again of firing a GM and having Priest tell the prospective new GM's that they can't hire their own guy and instead work with the coaching staff already in place? Doesn't it make more sense to give Howson both this season and next to get the team on the right track and if he doesn't, completely clean house after 2011-12?

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10-25-2010, 10:27 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
Having played in Semi-Pro Sports before, I don't care what your accomplishments are or have been. If you don't go out and compete and have the "I am better than this, because of X" type of attitude, no one will respect you.
Have you ever seen anything from anyone in the NHL - current or former Jacket, opponent, coach, anyone - indicating a lack of respect for Nash? I can't recall any indication that anyone other than fans or the occasional blogger holds him in less than high regard. He's far from perfect and he's neither Crosby or Ovie, but he's clearly respected throughout the league.

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10-25-2010, 10:29 AM
  #74
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Have you ever seen anything from anyone in the NHL - current or former Jacket, opponent, coach, anyone - indicating a lack of respect for Nash? I can't recall any indication that anyone other than fans or the occasional blogger holds him in less than high regard. He's far from perfect and he's neither Crosby or Ovie, but he's clearly respected throughout the league.
No. But then again that would cause huge turmoil and other issues. I also don't go looking around the net for Nash bashing articles.

I have been critical of him for years now.

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10-25-2010, 10:40 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post

The other thing here is: Do we really want to be in the awkward position again of firing a GM and having Priest tell the prospective new GM's that they can't hire their own guy and instead work with the coaching staff already in place? Doesn't it make more sense to give Howson both this season and next to get the team on the right track and if he doesn't, completely clean house after 2011-12?
Good point. Not only would a new GM again be asked to work with a coach not of his choosing, it would be with an entire staff that has been on the job for all of 7 NHL games! At this time, thinking that Howson should/would be fired is silly (and consequenses be damned, blahblah!). Not saying it can't be discussed or that people shouldn't feel negative about the job done by the GM, just that it makes no sense to drop the ax at this point of the season. At the risk of sounding like one of the Scotties, we still really don't know what kind of team we've got here, yet. 8 out of 14 points is not terrible. I think all of us have been so disgusted by the turds dropped on the last two Fridays that we are all too ready to declare this another season of "same old Jackets." Maybe, but maybe not. Blowing it all up and starting over after seven games doesn't strike me as the best way to go. Obviously, I'm more patient than many here, but I still have seen some encouraging signs and I'm willing to string along with Howson and Arniel for a bit longer.

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