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Fire Howson Thread

View Poll Results: Should Scott Howson be fired?
Yes 85 59.03%
No 59 40.97%
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Old
10-25-2010, 10:43 AM
  #76
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by kshymkiw View Post
No. But then again that would cause huge turmoil and other issues. I also don't go looking around the net for Nash bashing articles.

I have been critical of him for years now.
Yes, you've been consistent in that and have every right to your opinion. I haven't searched for any negatives on Nash, either, I just stated what I have seen, heard, and read.

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10-25-2010, 10:43 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Again, I'm not defending Howson here; I'm just trying to sift out the "throw the bum out" folks from those who actually have a realistic candidate in mind who they feel would right the ship. It's one thing to scream "Fire Howson"; it's another to say "Fire Howson and replace him with "Alternative GM #1". Emphasis on realistic; for example, Scotty Bowman ain't coming to Columbus.
Yeah, figured.

To be clear, that is not a requirement to think Howson is not doing a good job and should be terminated. Nor is that a consideration if you choose to remove Howson as a franchise.

I won't put for a candidate, because I don't know them nor have I interviewed them. It's fun to throw out names, but it comes from a place of ignorance. Much like Hitch is not the only coach that was available that could take us to the playoffs, Howson certainly isn't the only GM available that can do the same.

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10-25-2010, 10:47 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Yes, you've been consistent in that and have every right to your opinion. I haven't searched for any negatives on Nash, either, I just stated what I have seen, heard, and read.
From what I feel, most Hockey players are much too professional, and have too much respect for each other to say something like that. I think even if someone thought that of another player, they would never say it.

Football players on the other hand, are just looking for Media Attention.

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10-25-2010, 10:54 AM
  #79
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Having played in Semi-Pro Sports before, I don't care what your accomplishments are or have been. If you don't go out and compete and have the "I am better than this, because of X" type of attitude, no one will respect you
To be clear, I know that Nash isn't perfect. I'm not even arguing if he's a good leader or not or should be captain. In the past I've questioned that myself. But this is also the wrong thread. I can also say you can find clips from nearly all games for nearly all players in which they had a "lazy" moment. So I'm not in the least bit surprised you easily found one that met your criteria. Especially when I've been clear, in the past, that I think Nash takes nights off.

However, I was talking about one part of your post. Of which you have talked about everything but.

However, if you think his current line mates don't respect him and the vast majority of the team (and the NHL for that matter), it's certainly not supported by anything that has ever been reported. Or show by international selection and use by the respective coaching staffs. You don't have a hint or a whisper to support your analysis.

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10-25-2010, 11:11 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Thanks for posting!

You did notice that a lot of people were wanting to fire him, or were on the fence, before the season started right?

Please don't confuse knee jerk fans with those that have formed their opinion over a long period of time. When you not careful, you may get reactions you may not like. People who have a long list of issues with Howson may not like being called silly.
Yes I did notice that some people wanted to see him fired last year, but especially those on the fence jumping after a 7 game sample on to the fire him list; how is that not the very definition of kneejerk?

And I believe anyone who thinks they've seen enough of Howson at this point to know he should be moved is wrong. He has two things tying his hands: a budget and a majority of free agents who still think Columbus is a dying ground for careers. They may not like being called silly, but sometimes the truth hurts. He's made some great moves, he's made some lame ones. He's at least a middle of the road GM, and he's only in his 3rd season in that role. To me, he's a smart patient guy, and that's the kind of guy I want running my team. It's like the stock market.

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10-25-2010, 11:14 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Neill99 View Post
Scott howson needs to make this team better beacause I don't think he gives a crap about his team guys like Brassard should be the AHL or traded Voracek should be in the AHL Nash should being a acting like a ture leader what happened to him this season so far.Its time this makes some moves they lots of young prospects like young defenceman that they can trade.
And what exactly do you expect them to get for these young defensemen who have yet to prove anything even in the AHL? Superstar forwards do not grow on trees to be given away cheaply.

Further, Voracek in the AHL? you must be joking.

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10-25-2010, 11:18 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
It's not in better shape then it was two years ago. It's pretty much the same it was last year.

And what happened two years ago?

Is this team as good as it was then? maybe.

Is it as bad as it was last year? maybe not.

The key thing is it's too early to tell. Inconsistency like we've seen has a tendancy to iron itself out. Either they're learning how to win, and some nights they get killed when they arent putting the effort into playing the way their system requires. Or the wins where they eek out 3-2 or 2-1 are them at their absolute best, and we'll see less and less of that as the season wears on and injuries mount.

My guess? We're a team on the cusp of winning. All that confidence from 09 got whiped out by mason's slump in 10, and will take a little time to rebuild. Arniel has a better approach than Hitch when it comes to his younger players, so hopefully, we're about to have a fruitful November and December at the expense of some leasons learned in October.

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10-25-2010, 11:52 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by CBJFan#1 View Post
Yes I did notice that some people wanted to see him fired last year, but especially those on the fence jumping after a 7 game sample on to the fire him list; how is that not the very definition of kneejerk?

And I believe anyone who thinks they've seen enough of Howson at this point to know he should be moved is wrong. He has two things tying his hands: a budget and a majority of free agents who still think Columbus is a dying ground for careers. They may not like being called silly, but sometimes the truth hurts. He's made some great moves, he's made some lame ones. He's at least a middle of the road GM, and he's only in his 3rd season in that role. To me, he's a smart patient guy, and that's the kind of guy I want running my team. It's like the stock market.
Howson's handling of said budget is what most want me fired for. When you have very limited funds, the last thing you want to do is give Mike Commodore $3.75m for 5 years. Most FA's think its a dying grounds for careers is because we've showed them no reason to think otherwise. Howson has yet to show he has the ability to evaluate talent. Hejda doesnt count as he's, a. Average and b. I dont think Howson would have ever found him if he wasnt in the Oilers organization. Dougie got grilled for his PEI connection, Howson has shown he's no different with his Oilers connection. Granted, it happens everywhere and is good when it works, but bad when it doesnt....so far, I dont see it working

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10-25-2010, 11:54 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Howson's handling of said budget is what most want me fired for. When you have very limited funds, the last thing you want to do is give Mike Commodore $3.75m for 5 years. Most FA's think its a dying grounds for careers is because we've showed them no reason to think otherwise. Howson has yet to show he has the ability to evaluate talent. Hejda doesnt count as he's, a. Average and b. I dont think Howson would have ever found him if he wasnt in the Oilers organization. Dougie got grilled for his PEI connection, Howson has shown he's no different with his Oilers connection. Granted, it happens everywhere and is good when it works, but bad when it doesnt....so far, I dont see it working
So Howson doesn't get credit for a signing because he's an Ex-Oiler, but you're decrying him for signing ex-Oilers? Who can argue with that?

Because the ex-Oilers are certainly what's killing the team.

Name me 2 bad ex-Oilers that Howson's gotten. I'll give you one: Dick Tarnstrom. Can you name the other one?

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10-25-2010, 12:15 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BluejacketNut View Post
Howson's handling of said budget is what most want me fired for. When you have very limited funds, the last thing you want to do is give Mike Commodore $3.75m for 5 years. Most FA's think its a dying grounds for careers is because we've showed them no reason to think otherwise. Howson has yet to show he has the ability to evaluate talent. Hejda doesnt count as he's, a. Average and b. I dont think Howson would have ever found him if he wasnt in the Oilers organization. Dougie got grilled for his PEI connection, Howson has shown he's no different with his Oilers connection. Granted, it happens everywhere and is good when it works, but bad when it doesnt....so far, I dont see it working
Commodore in Hitch's system with correct offseason conditioning turned out well in 2009. 2010 less so because of failed offseason. He's not a fit for this coaches system, but Howson was playing with the cards he was dealt at the time. I still think Commie is our 4th or 5th best defenseman. he's just not 100% and that's likely a big part of the problems with his play that got him benched.

It's one thing to reach to REI for inexperienced staff to run your franchise. It's quite another to know the players very well from a previous organization and want them with yours because of specific skill sets you think will fit your team. Relationships are a big part of trades, and Howson obviously has a good relationship remaining in Edmonton. Plus, we simply dont have the pieces to give that other teams want. the ones we have we cant pass on to someone else because we're still building depth. We have it at D, another season of building offensive depth through draft, trade of a D prospect for an O prospect, and hopefully a playoff berth will entice a couple more free agents once we buy out commie.

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10-25-2010, 12:23 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by CBJFan#1 View Post
And what happened two years ago?
Seriously?

Pretty well documented. Our roster depth decreased considerably. You could not remove Manny, JW, and Peca from a roster that backed into the playoffs and expect the same results.

I don't have a lot of desire to go through 3 years and 4 off seasons off issues I've had with Howson. Again. And defend them. Again. For about the 20th time. You're just recycling the same things that have been stated and responded to. Not your fault, but don't expect much hunger from me to revisit. Although I could have sworn you were around for some it. But it's hard to tell with that name, I could be thinking of 3 or 4 people.

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My guess? We're a team on the cusp of winning.
And the same thing is said every year. Even if you are right, the roster is still not a serious Cup contender baring a performance from Mason like we've never seen before. And by definition, that isn't "serious".


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10-25-2010, 12:34 PM
  #87
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Seriously?

Pretty well documented. Our roster depth decreased considerably. You could not remove Manny, JW, and Peca from a roster that backed into the playoffs and expect the same results.

I don't have a lot of desire to go through 3 years and 4 off seasons off issues I've had with Howson. Again. And defend them. Again. For about the 20th time. You're just recycling the same things that have been stated and responded to. Not your fault, but don't expect much hunger from me to revisit. Although I could have sworn you were around for some it. But it's hard to tell with that name, I could be thinking of 3 or 4 people.
I lurk occasionally. I do wish I had chosen a different handle now knowing others have similar ones. I agree that the loss of those players was difficult to make up for, but expecting talented youngsters to have progressed enough to cover all buy Pecas in room leadership and Mannys high faceoff percentage was not out of the realm of possibility.

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10-25-2010, 12:36 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by CBJFan#1 View Post
Yes I did notice that some people wanted to see him fired last year, but especially those on the fence jumping after a 7 game sample on to the fire him list; how is that not the very definition of kneejerk?

And I believe anyone who thinks they've seen enough of Howson at this point to know he should be moved is wrong. He has two things tying his hands: a budget and a majority of free agents who still think Columbus is a dying ground for careers. They may not like being called silly, but sometimes the truth hurts. He's made some great moves, he's made some lame ones. He's at least a middle of the road GM, and he's only in his 3rd season in that role. To me, he's a smart patient guy, and that's the kind of guy I want running my team. It's like the stock market.
I love that people want to pretend that this is a decision based on a small sample size when the only changes made to this team from last year are (1) the coach and (2) the loss of some depth and addition of a guy currently on IR.

Let us look at Howson's history as GM.

2007-did very little in the off-season other than acquiring Jan Hejda and Jiri Novotny. One worked, the other didn't. Team made moderate gains under full season of Hitchcock, but missed playoffs.

Summer 2008. Howson's big splurge. Picked up Huselius and Commie as free agents. At the time the hockey media was shocked by the Commie contract. Made trades that netted him Umberger, Torres, Tyutin. During the season he would acquire Jason Williams and Antoinne Vermette. Team made the playoffs, but was swept in 4 games.

Summer 2009. Acquired Stralman. Replaced Manny Malhotra with Sammy Pahlsson. Let Peca go (leaving a hole at 4th line center). Otherwise hoped that improvement of young players would be enough to carry the team back to the playoffs. Traded Chimera for Clark in desperation to add leadership. Traded Torres for a late round pick. Traded Modin for...nothing. Gave stupid contracts to Brassard and Klesla. Ended badly. Very badly.

Summer 2010. Traded for Ethan Moreau. Again hoped that improvement of young players would be enough to not only do as well as the prior season, but this time to do better than the prior season.

The guy has had 4 off-seasons to do something, and chose to sit on his hand 3 of the 4.

You can't talk to me about a budget when this guy consistently overpays players. Commodore, Brassard, Klesla, etc. Then goes out and acquires overpaid 3rd/4th liners like Clark, Moreau and, much as I love the guy, Sammy Pahlsson. You want to overpay for third, fourth line talent, at least get me some guys that can put up points like a Bill Guerin, Doug Weight, Mark Recchi.

And, I'd have a bit more faith in his "patience" if his draft selections weren't so darn questionable so far. Filatov is obvious. But, let's be honest, John Moore hasn't exactly lived up the hype now finding himself down the depth chart below a kid like David Savard. Johansen may be a fine prospect...in another 2-3 years. Unfortunately for us, we may kick ourselves that we didn't take other more NHL-ready players at positions of need (i.e. center or defense--Jeff Skinner, Cam Fowler, etc.).

And for those that are worried we can't do better than him, I offer the following potential replacements: Jim Nill, Ron Hextall and the obligatory Collin Campbell reference.

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10-25-2010, 12:39 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by CBJFan#1 View Post
I lurk occasionally. I do wish I had chosen a different handle now knowing others have similar ones. I agree that the loss of those players was difficult to make up for, but expecting talented youngsters to have progressed enough to cover all buy Pecas in room leadership and Mannys high faceoff percentage was not out of the realm of possibility.
You know, we had another GM who stupidly assumed every prospect we had would progress to fill our needs and he was rightly run out of town too.

Even for good teams, not every prospect is a winner. If you need evidence of that, look at the track record of the Detroit Red Wings. The problem with this GM is he puts all of his eggs in that basket.

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10-25-2010, 12:41 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by CBJFan#1 View Post
I lurk occasionally. I do wish I had chosen a different handle now knowing others have similar ones. I agree that the loss of those players was difficult to make up for, but expecting talented youngsters to have progressed enough to cover all buy Pecas in room leadership and Mannys high faceoff percentage was not out of the realm of possibility.
Thank you for diminishing Manny's contribution in the playoff year. So the possibility of hope from kids, one coming off a major injury, precludes Howson from planning for the possible failure of said kids?

Good plan. It was crap at the time, I said it was crap at the time. It backfired. The players paid for it and the fans paid for it. The owners are paying for it now with the attendance issues. The only one that didn't was the architect.

That didn't even address the fact that we needed to upgrade our D and Stralman was it for the last two years. Our D in that playoff year was stretched and it was obvious they were having an issue with the minutes and responsibilities.

Your just stirring the pot now.... Intentional or not...

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10-25-2010, 12:41 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by CapnCornelius View Post
You know, we had another GM who stupidly assumed every prospect we had would progress to fill our needs and he was rightly run out of town too.

Even for good teams, not every prospect is a winner. If you need evidence of that, look at the track record of the Detroit Red Wings. The problem with this GM is he puts all of his eggs in that basket.
He also got 7 years and was working from scratch. Howson's had 3 and didn't exactly inherit a great team.

I'll ask you this question. How long should a GM get?

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10-25-2010, 12:44 PM
  #92
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And for those that are worried we can't do better than him, I offer the following potential replacements: Jim Nill, Ron Hextall and the obligatory Collin Campbell reference.
http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2007...o_intervi.html

I don't really see what's happened between then and now that the Wings would allow the Jackets to talk to Nill this time around. For that reason, I don't consider him to be a realistic option.

Hextall, perhaps. He'd be an intriguing option if it came to that.

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10-25-2010, 12:45 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Thank you for diminishing Manny's contribution in the playoff year. So the possibility of hope from kids, one coming off a major injury, precludes Howson from planning for the possible failure of said kids?

Good plan. It was crap at the time, I said it was crap at the time.

That didn't even address the fact that we needed to upgrade our D and Stralman was it for the last two years. Our D in that playoff year was stretched and it was obvious they were having an issue with the minutes and responsibilities.

Your just stirring the pot now.... Intentional or not...
Manny for Pahlsson, on-ice at least, is an improvement for what this team was going to run. Off-ice, you've got a point but I'll argue that he's made moves to fix that. I can't say that it will or won't work, but 7 games into the season, can anyone?

This question should be shelved until the end of the season. If we're going to get another off-season of hope based on a 20 game-stretch when the team was out of contention for a playoff spot, I'll say he's got to go. But let's not jump to conclusions 7 games into the season.


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10-25-2010, 12:47 PM
  #94
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He also got 7 years and was working from scratch. Howson's had 3 and didn't exactly inherit a great team.

I'll ask you this question. How long should a GM get?
I know you didn't ask me. However. There has been little to no progress over two years. Some would say that we've regressed. There are serious question marks about a few of his questions. Not 20/20 either, they were asked at the time.

I would say that if we're still making progress and improving every year, I would be less upset.

I would also say that it fixing the farm system will continue to go on for another few years. It would appear, at this point, that he is doing fairly well there.

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10-25-2010, 12:48 PM
  #95
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Manny for Pahlsson, on-ice at least, is an improvement for what this team was going to run.
For the last time, Phalsson was the replacement for Peca.

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This question should be shelved until the end of the season.
Hell no it shouldn't. And I'm rather offended, on principle. that you would say that. Your image is even more offensive. Mainly because I've been saying this for over 2 years now. Where the hell have you been?

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10-25-2010, 12:53 PM
  #96
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He also got 7 years and was working from scratch. Howson's had 3 and didn't exactly inherit a great team.

I'll ask you this question. How long should a GM get?
You can make an argument that it varies by situation. But when you manage to get to the playoffs and then fail replicate that again, that suggests to me that your team is regressing and I don't have patience for someone that sits on their hands and allows that to happen.

How much longer do you think a GM in the above-described situation should get to rest on his only "success"?

Doug should have never been given 7 years either. I felt he should have been fired at least 2 years before he finally got the ax.

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10-25-2010, 12:54 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
For the last time, Phalsson was the replacement for Peca.



Hell no it shouldn't. And I'm rather offended, on principle. that you would say that. Your image is even more offensive. Mainly because I've been saying this for over 2 years now. Where the hell have you been?
Arguing that 3 seasons, 2.75 of which he was stuck with the inherited coach isn't enough of a sample size to warrant firing him.

Once again, if we're saying that:

1. Brassard and Voracek looked good at the end of the season!
2. Klesla was hurt!
3. Mason finished the season strong!
4. Etc.

Or the same things in May 2011 that we were saying in May 2010, my answer will change. But right now, one quiet off-season isn't enough to warrant a pink-slip.

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10-25-2010, 12:56 PM
  #98
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But right now, one off-season quiet off-season isn't enough to warrant a pink-slip.
Umm...except he has had 3 out of 4 "quiet off-seasons." He only seemed to attempt to improve his team in the off-season once in his whole tenure. The other 3 years he seemed to be on autopilot.

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10-25-2010, 12:59 PM
  #99
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For the last time, Phalsson was the replacement for Peca.
Maybe to you, but not to too many others (if any) when the signing went down.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=658120

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10-25-2010, 01:01 PM
  #100
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Arguing that 3 seasons, 2.75 of which he was stuck with the inherited coach isn't enough of a sample size to warrant firing him.
The odor of enablement of failure is pungent.

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