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Fire Howson Thread

View Poll Results: Should Scott Howson be fired?
Yes 85 59.03%
No 59 40.97%
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Old
10-28-2010, 08:12 AM
  #151
blahblah
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
I began to realize Howson had stocked a team full of players who had little resiliency. Even that year, when things went against them you could see their shoulders sag. I will never forget the when the arena was packed that playoff year, and the team would start out weakly in a game and just quit when things didn't go their way.
I assume it wasn't lost on you that when we had injuries in our playoff year that the guys will called up from the AHL seemed to be more engaged and determined then some of the guys we had on the roster. We actually seemed to play better with less skilled players. Now obviously we've reached tipping points in other years where the loss in talent from numerous injuries would overwhelm the team. But it spoke volumes about the character of some of our players. Some of which are still on this team, obviously.

You are certainly correct in that they are creating an expectation of cheaper tickets and not incenting the STH'ers to remain STH'ers. The main carrot is that you have access to playoff tickets before the rest of the population. Not exactly a huge selling point ATM.

I've talked to 5 or 6 ex STH sales reps and they all have the same story about how they are encouraged to not spend time on STH retention. It explains why I really only get a call when I hadn't sent my money to them yet. They weren't customer rep's, they were tax collectors. Two of them were told they could not come to games to mingle with some of their customers, except on specific dates (and then it was you who had to find where they were stationed). Might have been all, but I let them do most of the talking. Didn't want to lead them. Most of that were appalled, to some extent, by the orders coming from above. Now I temper this with the realization that most of these people were bitter and venting, but their stories were similar enough to make me think they weren't exaggerating. It can also be debated if their strategy is the right one. Personally I don't, but that's me.

They pretty much lost any real loyalty when I switched locations and they made me pay the PSL cost again while moving to a cheaper section. It was a small amount, so I didn't get worked up about it and fight it. But it bugged me on principle that they would even try it.

They've got a lot of issues internally.

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10-28-2010, 09:38 AM
  #152
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Great posts by leek and blahblah.

I feel compelled to clarify that any posts I make about Howson are only related to player movement. I live a long way from Columbus so none of the other issues affect me directly. Sounds pretty messed up.

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Old
10-28-2010, 10:29 AM
  #153
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And, in full disclosure, my question post about Howson has nothing to do with STHs and their mistreatment. To me, that's (legitimately) complaining about a brain tumor in a thread about a hernia. In other words, both are legitimate issues, but talking about your brain tumor when I'm asking about your hernia doesn't do much to answer my questions about how your stomach was feeling last year.

Now that I've kicked that metaphor to death, back to the hernia... oops, sorry!

I can't say for certain whether or not Howson really examines every opportunity to make this team better. To wit, do I believe he seriously considered trying to bring in Kovalchuk this off-season? Probably not. Would it have made our team better? Probably. Do I hold it against Howson that he probably didn't pursue it? Nope. So, to me, there are shades of gray there.

One of my biggest pet peeves in the online sports world (and as a writer for a pretty large Cleveland Sports Blog, we see this in spades every day) is the half-truth that: if a team makes a certain move over another move, it means they must not have even explored the move not made. The "shouldas" always piss me off. "I can't believe we didn't trade for [player x]! He would be perfect! Typical [GM]!" This isn't Playstation: you can't make every move you want because it takes two to tango.

To be honest, I'm neither high nor low on Howson. For every Commodore, there's a Pazzy-for-Vermette. To me, the roster is in better shape than it was three years ago. Is it perfect? Nope. Not even close. When I look to last year, when the Thanksgiving Road Trip Massacre happened, it was clear that the team had no answers from top down. I get that. There clearly wasn't someone in the room that was able to get the guys focused; there wasn't the right leadership. You can pin that on Howson for not recognizing the potential vacuum there and having a back-up plan, or you can choose to think that if he'd made a move for someone like Clark before the season and sold it as: "we're going to need some leadership in the room, so consider this my insurance policy" that many of the same people complaining now would have panned the move as ridiculous, the same way many panned the Moreau pick-up. I know I would have. But, through the first five games it looked like the Moreau pick-up was effective based on what it was intended to do.

Summary: hindsight is 20/20.

So, the reason I asked the question was from an organic place: even with the perceived shortcomings--and I take you all at your word and believe that you're not one-game knee-jerking here--after (an albeit fruitless) trip to the playoffs and a decent 20-game start, were there honestly people trumpeting these weaknesses and forecasting doom last year before the plop hit the fan?

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10-28-2010, 10:34 AM
  #154
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Is there any chance Ryan Johansen gets called up this season?

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10-28-2010, 10:40 AM
  #155
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Is there any chance Ryan Johansen gets called up this season?
No, pending catastrophic injury to our forward corps.

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10-28-2010, 10:48 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
No, pending catastrophic injury to our forward corps.
Okay, cuz we had a hockey pool draft. And everybody had to draft a rookie. One of the guys who doesn't know anything about hockey picked him. lmao

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10-28-2010, 10:50 AM
  #157
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Okay, cuz we had a hockey pool draft. And everybody had to draft a rookie. One of the guys who doesn't know anything about hockey picked him. lmao
uh-huh

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10-28-2010, 11:33 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by blarneylad View Post
Okay, cuz we had a hockey pool draft. And everybody had to draft a rookie. One of the guys who doesn't know anything about hockey picked him. lmao
Sorry about your luck blarney!

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10-28-2010, 12:16 PM
  #159
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blarney wants to fire Howson for ruining his fantasy team!

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10-28-2010, 12:43 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by WFNY5Hole View Post
And, in full disclosure, my question post about Howson has nothing to do with STHs and their mistreatment.
Much like DC, we don't care about original intent.

Quote:
To me, the roster is in better shape than it was three years ago
Nothing like being content to beat the snail to the finish line eh?

Quote:
When the club was 12-6-2 through its first 20 in 2009, were the questions about Howson's off-season performance and forecasts of doom prevalent then? Or, did it take the complete collapse to decide that his "inactivity" had cost the team last year?
Now that you've forced me to go back and actually get past the first 3 paragraphs to your actual question...

Frankly, I find the question insulting in a way. But I'll assume you weren't trying to frame the question to make people look like cliff jumping, knee-jerk, irrational Howson haters and give you a real answer.

There were a few that expressed dismay in the off season. There were even fewer that pointed out that while the team was winning, they weren't playing all that well. Those individuals were hoping the team could get it together before the losses started to happen.

However, I don't think anyone saw a collapse in the scale that we saw.


Last edited by blahblah: 10-28-2010 at 01:03 PM.
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10-28-2010, 01:13 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by WFNY5Hole View Post
So, the reason I asked the question was from an organic place: even with the perceived shortcomings--and I take you all at your word and believe that you're not one-game knee-jerking here--after (an albeit fruitless) trip to the playoffs and a decent 20-game start, were there honestly people trumpeting these weaknesses and forecasting doom last year before the plop hit the fan?
My totally unscientific sampling of vague memories of posts from last year says that many of the people complaining about Howson now have been complaining for a long time. If anything, they're driving the point home more earnestly now. One of the basic complaints is that the big gaps -- #1/2 Offensive D-man + #1 Center -- are ten-year problems, and Howson hasn't addressed them. This is a strong complaint, and has been there since Howson's Day 1. Others will point out that key point-earning secondary scorers, such as Torres, were not replaced with comparable players. I think some are uncomfortable that whereas Dougie was too chaotic (and too full of ****), Scottie has been way too conservative and deliberate in his moves. People will cite the lack of "splashes," which, of course, has led to long debates about the value of making a splash.

I think a lot of people were on the fence about Scottie, because even with one playoff appearance, the team's growth was not convincing, and last year's performance looked like confirmation that the conservative approach was not working. Couple that with the lack of visible action over the summer, and I think more people ran out of patience. Bottom line -- I don't think the fire Howson discussion is as much of a knee-jerk as it might appear to be, and I think many of the views of Howson have been consistent over time. Just IMHO.

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Old
10-28-2010, 01:30 PM
  #162
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String smart... He makes us go...











(If you catch the reference, you'll know I'm not being sarcastic or insulting)

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10-28-2010, 02:09 PM
  #163
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Frankly, I find the question insulting in a way. But I'll assume you weren't trying to frame the question to make people look like cliff jumping, knee-jerk, irrational Howson haters and give you a real answer.
Just as I reiterated that I take you all at your word that it's not a knee-jerk reaction--which is seemingly being confirmed by many sources--I would hope you take me at mine that I'm not trying to play "Gotcha!" with anyone here. It was a legitimate question I had as a relative noob to the guts of this forum, and I thank everyone for treating it as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
There were a few that expressed dismay in the off season. There were even fewer that pointed out that while the team was winning, they weren't playing all that well. Those individuals were hoping the team could get it together before the losses started to happen.

However, I don't think anyone saw a collapse in the scale that we saw.
That's understandable, and I appreciate what you're saying.

Quote:
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Quote:
To me, the roster is in better shape than it was three years ago
Nothing like being content to beat the snail to the finish line eh?
Don't misconstrue my completely-devoid-of-greater-context assessment of the roster as "contentment". In fact, if my memory serves, the very next sentences after that were:
Quote:
Is it perfect? Nope. Not even close.
But, perhaps because the four other sports teams I follow with great passion/regularity are all--save maybe the Cavaliers, though they may be about ready to start one--in the midst of decade-long "rebuilding" phases, I have had any sense of urgency/lack-of-patience beaten out of me. For whatever that's all worth...



And Buzz, I think you know how I feel. We've had a great many discussions about the team not in the land of message board (you know, like as two actual humans in person and stuff), so I believe you can vouch that I'm not a staunch Scott supporter by any stretch. That said, I'm not completely fed up by any stretch, either, because I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Whether it's sunlight or vehicular, well, that I'm none too sure of yet.

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10-28-2010, 02:12 PM
  #164
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(If you catch the reference, you'll know I'm not being sarcastic or insulting)
For those of us who don't catch the reference (probably just me), please tell us the origin (or not). Thanks.

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10-28-2010, 02:32 PM
  #165
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For those of us who don't catch the reference (probably just me), please tell us the origin (or not). Thanks.
Nerd moment, sorry. Google search Pakled. Honestly I would be surprised if many got it.

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10-28-2010, 03:48 PM
  #166
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Is there any chance Ryan Johansen gets called up this season?
No chance at all actually, as he's in juniors. If he were in the AHL, another matter but they sent Johansen down to develop and so that's what he'll do. And I'm fine for this, particularly on the night we'll be facing Gilbert Brule whom they didn't allow to develop.

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10-28-2010, 04:48 PM
  #167
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Nerd moment, sorry. Google search Pakled. Honestly I would be surprised if many got it.
Thanks

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10-28-2010, 05:36 PM
  #168
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No chance at all actually, as he's in juniors. If he were in the AHL, another matter but they sent Johansen down to develop and so that's what he'll do. And I'm fine for this, particularly on the night we'll be facing Gilbert Brule whom they didn't allow to develop.
If I recall correctly, there may be a clause which allows for "sent down" players to be called up on an emergency basis. That may have been changed, though. For all intents and purposes, a player cannot be sent back up.

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10-29-2010, 03:06 PM
  #169
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Howson should have been removed from the GM's job when he chose to appease a player instead of backing his head coach. Hitch isn't all happy faces by any means but he got that team playing well enough to get into the playoffs and playing some solid hockey.

To me that is his biggest failure, while Filatov may someday reach his potential, getting banged around in the NHL isn't the way to do it, he needs big time AHL minutes to learn the NA game

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10-29-2010, 03:08 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealkoho View Post
Howson should have been removed from the GM's job when he chose to appease a player instead of backing his head coach. Hitch isn't all happy faces by any means but he got that team playing well enough to get into the playoffs and playing some solid hockey.

To me that is his biggest failure, while Filatov may someday reach his potential, getting banged around in the NHL isn't the way to do it, he needs big time AHL minutes to learn the NA game
No offense, but did you even read this thread?

Goes way beyond that. And the Filatov thing belongs in another thread.

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10-29-2010, 03:24 PM
  #171
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No offense, but did you even read this thread?

Goes way beyond that. And the Filatov thing belongs in another thread.
He listed it as a reason to fire Howson. So have I. It's extremely OT.

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10-29-2010, 03:33 PM
  #172
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No offense, but did you even read this thread?

Goes way beyond that. And the Filatov thing belongs in another thread.
That was his opinion for why Howson should have been fired. And Filatov has already been brought up in this thread. As has several other players. Someone posted just wondering if Johansen will play with the club this season. But now is when you decide to stand up?
I must be missing something....

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10-29-2010, 03:48 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hip check View Post
That was his opinion for why Howson should have been fired. And Filatov has already been brought up in this thread. As has several other players. Someone posted just wondering if Johansen will play with the club this season. But now is when you decide to stand up?
I must be missing something....
I'm missing how
a. It's that black and white
b. How keeping Filatov in that situation would be good for anyone
and C. Why some Jackets fans are so obsessed with punishment and revenge even if it shoots the Jackets in the foot long-term.

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10-29-2010, 06:26 PM
  #174
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He listed it as a reason to fire Howson. So have I. It's extremely OT.
I would argue that If I were in Howsons shoes and it came to keeping Filatov, or Keeping Hitch, I would definately choose Filatov, appears thats what he chose. Hitch was never the right fit for how our team was being built, just brought some respectibility to the cbj for his past success.

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:51 AM
  #175
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There's a thread on the Pens page assessing whether Shero or Bylsma is to blame for th eteam's slow start. Shero is taking a lot of heat for his continued failure to adress his team's most glaring needs.

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