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Old
04-01-2011, 02:12 PM
  #201
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Only -5? I'm surprised he hasn't been worse. Daley was doing so well with Fistric to start the season and now he's playing like ass next to Witka. Please scratch him Crawford. I'd rather see Lukowich who's a shadow of himself. At least he plays his game and will take the body.

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04-01-2011, 03:05 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsdude View Post
Keeping Richards is just another Newy miscalculation. Asiminov straight up would have been ahuge get.
If the team accepted a Richards trade you'd be complaining about the crap offer they accepted.

Would you accept the equivalent of Woyitka, Sutherby, another similar spare and a mid round pick for Richards? Okay, it was slightly better then that, but the offer from the Rangers was just awful.


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Oh yeah, whenever this team is sold Niewendyk needs to be among the first fired. Way to miscalculate yet again what your team is. No drive. No passion. No attention to detail. Terrible coaching, obscene minutes for players burning them to the ground. Bad asset management with inflated contracts to mediocre players all equals a disaster of a franchise. Yay, go Stars!

As much as I don't like Nieuwendyk, his free agent signings, letting veterans go and trades are good. Re-signing players, that's the only issue overpaying for players such as Ott, Daley etc. Yeah the one trade for Langenbrunner wasn't good, but for the most part he's doing a quality job. Odds are the Stars wouldn't get a better option then Nieuwendyk even with a new owner. Things could be far worse.

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04-01-2011, 03:47 PM
  #203
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Would you accept the equivalent of Woyitka, Sutherby, another similar spare and a mid round pick for Richards? Okay, it was slightly better then that, but the offer from the Rangers was just awful.
I understand why they didn't make the reported trade with NYR but you're kidding, I hope. Anisimov was the rumored centerpiece of the deal, which is not remotely close to Woywitka, Sutherby, etc.

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Old
04-01-2011, 04:26 PM
  #204
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i think we should send vincour and lukowich back down so they can get reacclimated into the texas lineup for a playoff run.

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04-01-2011, 06:48 PM
  #205
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I understand why they didn't make the reported trade with NYR but you're kidding, I hope. Anisimov was the rumored centerpiece of the deal, which is not remotely close to Woywitka, Sutherby, etc.
Rangers weren't willing to offer up Anisimov, Stepan, McDonagh etc. It was reported on deadline day. It was something around a Gilroy, Christensen and a mid round pick or two.


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Old
04-01-2011, 07:23 PM
  #206
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i think we should send vincour and lukowich back down so they can get reacclimated into the texas lineup for a playoff run.
No Lukowich please Vincour would be welcomed though.

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Old
04-01-2011, 07:30 PM
  #207
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Rangers weren't willing to offer up Anisimov, Stepan, McDonagh etc. It was reported on deadline day. It was something around a Gilroy, Christensen and a mid round pick or two.
My bad, I vaguely recall that now.

Another questionable point of contention regarding trade/not trade Richards was over how many teams were ever in contact with the Stars about his status. It's just unfortunate he's come back to not be his former self.

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Old
04-01-2011, 07:59 PM
  #208
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My bad, I vaguely recall that now.

Another questionable point of contention regarding trade/not trade Richards was over how many teams were ever in contact with the Stars about his status. It's just unfortunate he's come back to not be his former self.
of course you can take that report with a small grain of salt. Its very unlikely that such an offer was the best they could get for richards.

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Old
04-07-2011, 06:16 PM
  #209
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Is it just me, or have the Stars raised their ticket prices?

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Old
04-07-2011, 11:42 PM
  #210
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Is it just me, or have the Stars raised their ticket prices?
They have.

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Old
04-08-2011, 10:01 AM
  #211
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I guess this is the Tony Tavares effect. I wonder if he's the guy behind those ridiculously jarring TV ads on the glass as well? Trying to bleed the turnip dry...

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04-08-2011, 10:34 AM
  #212
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Didnt they bring in tiered pricing this season? Could it be that these are premium games due to their importance/last game of the season? I don't know since I haven't paid list in a while though due to student rush.

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Old
04-08-2011, 11:37 AM
  #213
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Just noticed that we are the last game of the regular season for the entire NHL, we'll know what needs to happen going into that game

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04-08-2011, 11:48 AM
  #214
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Just noticed that we are the last game of the regular season for the entire NHL, we'll know what needs to happen going into that game
And it will determine what kind of effort is displayed.

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Old
04-08-2011, 01:32 PM
  #215
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I guess this is the Tony Tavares effect. I wonder if he's the guy behind those ridiculously jarring TV ads on the glass as well? Trying to bleed the turnip dry...
I seem to recall when he was hired that one of the things he said about his philosophy on these situations is to not do what everyone expects, which would be to lower prices due to decreased demand. Maybe the idea is that there is a fairly strong contingent of fans who will be fans and do what fans do (shell out cash) thereby making decreasing prices an ill-advised move. I can kind of understand that stance, but it is pretty lame as a fan to see an organization in the state the Stars find themselves to as you say, bleed the turnip dry. I hate to see what prices will be like when the Stars get themselves fixed.

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Old
04-08-2011, 02:31 PM
  #216
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On being the fan of a bubble team...
_______________________________________________

What was talked about during the offseason has come to fruition. Going into the last weekend of the season the Stars still have a shot at the playoffs. Obviously, you would prefer to be in the position of a Nashville, Phoenix, or Anaheim but c'est la vie. I for one, being the sports realist (and at times sports pessimist) I am, pronounced this thing dead in my own mind in the games directly following the debacle against Anaheim at home a couple weeks ago. Alas, there is remains a chance...a bit of semi-realistic hope.

The question I have for people is how do we feel about it? This is what is meant by being in the "playoff hunt". Clearly, it is preferable to be a definitively good team that has a playoff spot sewn up a couple weeks beforehand, but with shootout/OT scoring the way it is, coupled with the parity of the league, we've seen the nature of the standings evolve to the point where things are so bunched up that only a handful of teams really stand apart from the crowd. I don't really want to get into a discussion of the merits of "tanking" or the relative depth/high-end quality of this upcoming draft, but is the current position of the team acceptable to the point of palpable sports excitement? Is being in the hunt enough for you as a fan or would you rather the team go through some truly lean years in hopes of coming out the other end with longterm hopes pinned on young players and assets accrued due to a few years of being pretty sorry all around?

I'm more interested in hearing about other people's personal philosophy as sports fans while using the current state of the Stars as an example, rather than hasing out the specific issues surrounding the Stars team/organization. Generally speaking...

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Old
04-08-2011, 03:15 PM
  #217
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My personal philosophy is true tanks rarely work because player development is neither linear nor totally predictable. While I find value in working towards peak years when you feel your current players will be at their best and in not selling off all your future assets for present gain, I think people assume that lean years will lead to future success where it's far more likely that truly lean years simply lead to more lean years. I am firmly in the school of re-tool and compliment your current set while using intelligent drafting and development to address the future rather than completely banking on a future that won't necessarily materialize.

Honestly, I love what the Stars have done and think it's complicated by the current ownership situation. If this team had a little more money for player salary, they could have addressed many of the issues that have plagued them and been in a pretty comfortable position right now. A better backup goalie and some better defensive depth would have made a huge difference this year. Even if they had been able to spend $4 million more on players, that could significantly upgrade some pieces and put them in the 4-6 spot instead of lurking in ninth and hoping for some help.

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Old
04-08-2011, 03:47 PM
  #218
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I'm with Kritter on this one. We keep churning out good forwards out of thin air, we have a goalie who is pretty damn good, and would be even better if managed properly, and we're doing it on a constrained budget.

I don't think this team is one piece away from being potential Stanley Cup champs or anything, but I do think we have a pretty good group and that tanking would be kinda stupid at this point. Put in a more competent coach, add 10 mil to the budget, and maybe we can sign some good players in FA, or possibly just give Joe the cap flexibility to make a trade in which we take some salary. In the new cap era the pure 'hockey trade' is nearly a thing of the past, and we aren't very capable of making any other kind of trade with our **** budget. If we trade away a piece like Robidas, we're probably too close to the cap floor (I'd assume the most plausible thing is for him to go for draft picks), if we want to add someone to the 1st pairing to reduce his minutes, we don't have enough money to do so.

Having flexibility with the cap would be huge for this team. Obviously a team like Phoenix has done a very impressive job for not having a big budget this year, but it's also because of years of being bad and accumulating some good draft picks in the process that they can afford to do so. I think we have a decent enough window that we could build this team piece by piece and keep a good core for a while. If we fixed the D piece by piece and added a little more scoring punch up front we'd probably have something pretty damn good on our hands.

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Old
04-09-2011, 01:11 AM
  #219
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The thing is one bad year can set you for 10-15+. Look at Carolina and Skinner. They tank for one year and pick up a 30 goal scorer at the age of 18. Obviously ever case won't be like that (Filatov, etc), but the odds are pretty good.

I'd rather us contend every season, but its hard to not be jealous.

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04-09-2011, 02:20 AM
  #220
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The thing is, the odds aren't pretty good. Roughly 50 percent of first-round picks become NHL players. Many of those become Sutherby. Fewer become Ott. And only a very select few become truly elite game changers. Skinner is not a good example because he could become very marginal after this year or could tear his ACL and never be the same or any variety of things. And game changers can be found much further down (see Richards and Benn).

Personally, I think a lot of people confuse high picks with definite and immediate upgrades. Depending on the draft, a high pick is more likely to make an immediate positive impact and be a long-term assets, but it's far from guaranteed.

Plus that's before you consider that to guarantee a "tank," you end up dumping so many present assets that it's very difficult to turn around and immediately be competitive the next year. It's not a quick fix option unless you are a team that's just decimated by injury where you will get those assets back.


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04-09-2011, 03:52 AM
  #221
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The thing is, the odds aren't pretty good. Roughly 50 percent of first-round picks become NHL players. Many of those become Sutherby. Fewer become Ott. And only a very select few become truly elite game changers. Skinner is not a good example because he could become very marginal after this year or could tear his ACL and never be the same or any variety of things. And game changers can be found much further down (see Richards and Benn).

Plus that's before you consider that to guarantee a "tank," you end up dumping so many present assets that it's very difficult to turn around and immediately be competitive the next year. It's not a quick fix option unless you are a team that's just decimated by injury where you will get those assets back.

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04-09-2011, 10:29 AM
  #222
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Skinner is not a good example because he could become very marginal after this year or could tear his ACL and never be the same or any variety of things.
You could say that about any player, at any time. How is that relevant to the topic?

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Old
04-09-2011, 10:57 AM
  #223
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the number of first rounders who make it is irrelevant in a tank scenario. What % of top 5 draftees become nhl players? Its damn sure higher than the % of first rounders who do...and they are way more likely to be better than Ott.

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04-09-2011, 11:52 AM
  #224
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The thing is one bad year can set you for 10-15+. Look at Carolina and Skinner. They tank for one year and pick up a 30 goal scorer at the age of 18. Obviously ever case won't be like that (Filatov, etc), but the odds are pretty good.

I'd rather us contend every season, but its hard to not be jealous.
We got very lucky and drafted Jamie Benn in the 5th round, who practically has sky-high potential. He's definitely the equivalent of a top 5 pick in most drafts IMO. I don't think one pick usually sets up a team for 10-15, it seems to take years of repeated sucking except for a few rare exceptions like Philly a few years ago.

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Old
04-09-2011, 12:51 PM
  #225
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the number of first rounders who make it is irrelevant in a tank scenario. What % of top 5 draftees become nhl players? Its damn sure higher than the % of first rounders who do...and they are way more likely to be better than Ott.
Exactly. It's not particularly instructive to even think of the draft in terms of the numbered rounds. That just happens to be the interval that teams pick thanks to the size of the league. The talent is almost always concentrated at the very top and then drops off in a rational function that resembles f(x) = 1/x



(with of course the corresponding 5th round anomaly)

Finishing 4th in the league and drafting Brian Sutherby isn't really what the discussion is about.

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