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Phillies 2010 Postseason: Red October IV, R2C2: Return of the Jedi

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Old
11-08-2010, 09:52 PM
  #251
Amateur Hour
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
That's who I was looking for for the Sox. No more of this Mike Cameron BS, the question would be how they would set up their outfield. They tried moving Ellsbury to left but he kept getting hurt. Werth might play center there depending on what they try to do with J.D. Drew.
To be honest, I wouldn't mind taking a flier on Ellsbury, if he's available for trade. I know this was basically a lost season for him with the rib injury and all the drama that followed (and I have to assume he's fallen out of favor in Boston, given all that transpired), but I've been a fan of his since he broke into the league. If he can be had for a mid-level prospect, I'd definitely take him here, with the hope that he can stay healthy and get back to being the Jacoby Ellsbury of old (he'd be a PERFECT table-setter in this offense). It would also allow us to possibly trade Victorino, if Ruben were so inclined, because Ellsbury definitely isn't the answer in RF (although I'd be fine with him being a bench/platoon player for a year and then taking over for Ibanez is 2012).

Just a thought I've been kicking around.

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Old
11-08-2010, 09:54 PM
  #252
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I don't think Ellsbury is going anywhere.

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Old
11-08-2010, 10:22 PM
  #253
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Good riddance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/sp...iefs-espn.html

Shame they couldn't aim higher for the future.

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11-08-2010, 10:31 PM
  #254
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Good riddance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/sp...iefs-espn.html

Shame they couldn't aim higher for the future.
I'm of the opinion that Gus Johnson should just do every sports game that happens.

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Old
11-10-2010, 06:17 PM
  #255
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Shane wins his 3rd straight gold glove

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Old
11-10-2010, 09:16 PM
  #256
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Not that this is really a surprise, but if you were looking for verbal confirmation that the Phillies won't be re-signing Jayson Werth...

Quote:
Not Werth it: Here's one Phillies source on the odds of his team finding a way to keep Jayson Werth: "No chance. None. Zero." In the end, it might not even be the annual dollars that will force the Phillies to move on. It's their unwillingness to go beyond three or four years for a player who will turn 32 next May.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...umblings101110

The interesting name there is Jeff Francouer. I'd never really considered him, but here's a guy who has shown flashes and was once a top prospect. Not only that, but he's a great defender as well. Plus, he'll only be 27 at the start of next season. The fact that he's told friends he'd love to play for Charlie Manuel is particularly intriguing. We know what Charlie can do for hitters, and it'd be really interesting to see if he could help Frenchy harness his talents. If we do sign him, we could employ a double platoon in the OF with Ibanez/Francisco and Brown/Frenchy. I'm definitely open to it.

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Old
11-10-2010, 09:25 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Not that this is really a surprise, but if you were looking for verbal confirmation that the Phillies won't be re-signing Jayson Werth...



http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...umblings101110

The interesting name there is Jeff Francouer. I'd never really considered him, but here's a guy who has shown flashes and was once a top prospect. Not only that, but he's a great defender as well. Plus, he'll only be 27 at the start of next season. The fact that he's told friends he'd love to play for Charlie Manuel is particularly intriguing. We know what Charlie can do for hitters, and it'd be really interesting to see if he could help Frenchy harness his talents. If we do sign him, we could employ a double platoon in the OF with Ibanez/Francisco and Brown/Frenchy. I'm definitely open to it.
I'm open to this as well.

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Old
11-10-2010, 09:29 PM
  #258
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That actually isn't the worst idea in the world.

If you consider 2008 an aberration, his OPS against lefties the other 4 years...

2010: .805
2009: .877
2007: .853
2006: .853

The one thing is that it might be tough selling a guy on only getting a couple hundred ABs every year and I think a lot of Francoeur's problems are essentially unfixable.

Werth is going to be a big loss, but I have to say, I'd be leery about giving him the 5 years 95-100 mill that he's probably going to get. It was a great ride with him, great WS victory and I wish him the very best for sure, but I won't be too upset when we don't overpay him.

Just wish we had shown some of the same restraint with Howard, I'm a Howard supporter, but still trying to figure that deal out.

EDIT: BTW, I know I am slow, but it still just blows my mind that the Phillies are among the top-5 teams that get talked about during hot stove articles/discussions. If you had told me this 5 years ago, I would have said you're crazy.

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11-10-2010, 09:32 PM
  #259
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No on Francouer.

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Old
11-10-2010, 09:38 PM
  #260
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BTW, where do you guys see Chooch hitting next year?

I mean, there's a small possibility he could be our best right-handed hitter.

I understand the logic of batting him 8th to roll over the lineup, but considering his OBP was at .400 this past year, I wouldn't mind seeing him a bit higher in the lineup.

J-Roll
Polanco
Chooch
Chase
Howard
Brown/Francisco/Ibanez/Victorino
Brown/Francisco/Ibanez/Victorino
Brown/Francisco/Ibanez/Victorino
Pitcher

Too stupid?

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Old
11-10-2010, 10:01 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
BTW, where do you guys see Chooch hitting next year?

I mean, there's a small possibility he could be our best right-handed hitter.

I understand the logic of batting him 8th to roll over the lineup, but considering his OBP was at .400 this past year, I wouldn't mind seeing him a bit higher in the lineup.

J-Roll
Polanco
Chooch
Chase
Howard
Brown/Francisco/Ibanez/Victorino
Brown/Francisco/Ibanez/Victorino
Brown/Francisco/Ibanez/Victorino
Pitcher

Too stupid?
Why not just put him fifth, especially if Utley and Howard are still going to be back to back?

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Old
11-10-2010, 10:35 PM
  #262
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I think he stays 8th I don't know why but just a hunch.

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Old
11-11-2010, 09:39 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I don't think Ellsbury is going anywhere.
I think this mainly because I don't think the Sox will get any proposal near what they consider his value. I'd be interested in him on the Phillies, although his complaining about not playing CF in Boston make me wonder how he'd handle moving to the Phils. I doubt Shane gets moved from CF, and Ellsbury's not looking for a platoon role, I'd imagine. Intriguing name, though.

And yes, the Sox moves last offseason were retarded. WTF was with bringing in Cameron, and replacing Ellsbury in CF? Ellsbury was the least of your problems. They need to ditch JD Drew's worthless "Oh, I have a hangnail...out for three weeks!" ass, and find some power bats for that lineup.

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Old
11-11-2010, 01:48 PM
  #264
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I would give Werth 5 years because we are screwed then anyways with Howards deal.

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Old
11-11-2010, 03:37 PM
  #265
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I would give Werth 5 years because we are screwed then anyways with Howards deal.
The problem with Werth is that while very good, he's not a superstar and he's about to get superstar money it seems. This is further exacerbated by the fact that a big part of what makes Werth so valuable is his athleticism in the field, which is the one part of his game you really expect to be affected by aging by the latter part of the deal -- the hitting shouldn't fall off the cliff, but once guys get up there that whole running around thing is a problem.

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11-12-2010, 10:00 AM
  #266
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I really love the idea of grabbing Francouer. The guy has a cannon for an arm and is a decent enough hitter against lefties. I could also definitely see him platooning with both Brown and Ibanez, and being a defensive replacement for Ibanez late in games.

Let's say that, if Brown plays 100 games and Ibanes plays 100 games, then that leaves 120 games for Francouer and Francisco to compete over... that, coupled with defensive replacements (usually get at least 1 at bat) and pinch hits then Francouer could hypothetically get close to 300 ABs, more than enough to entice someone to come play for you and be a favorite to win the WS.

My ideal lineup:
Rollins
Victorino
Polanco
Howard
Utley
Ruiz
Brown/Francouer
Ibanez/Francouer
pitcher spot

This lineup is assuming Rollins can regain some of his form from previous seasons. Having the back to back speed of Rollins and Vic made life hell for pitchers in years past, Polanco is our best average guy and should hit with runners on, Howard and Utley provide protection for one another and give you the power, Ruiz is our best righty bat and splits up the lefties and the bottom of our lineup could potentially still have a ton of pop (if Brown matures and Ibanez can regain some of his form).

Of course, the wildcard here is Brown. If he comes into spring training and is ripping the cover off of the ball, then I don't know how you don't let him hit in a position of consequence (3rd or 5th).

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Old
11-12-2010, 10:05 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
I really love the idea of grabbing Francouer. The guy has a cannon for an arm and is a decent enough hitter against lefties. I could also definitely see him platooning with both Brown and Ibanez, and being a defensive replacement for Ibanez late in games.

Let's say that, if Brown plays 100 games and Ibanes plays 100 games, then that leaves 120 games for Francouer and Francisco to compete over... that, coupled with defensive replacements (usually get at least 1 at bat) and pinch hits then Francouer could hypothetically get close to 300 ABs, more than enough to entice someone to come play for you and be a favorite to win the WS.

My ideal lineup:
Rollins
Victorino
Polanco
Howard
Utley
Ruiz
Brown/Francouer
Ibanez/Francouer
pitcher spot

This lineup is assuming Rollins can regain some of his form from previous seasons. Having the back to back speed of Rollins and Vic made life hell for pitchers in years past, Polanco is our best average guy and should hit with runners on, Howard and Utley provide protection for one another and give you the power, Ruiz is our best righty bat and splits up the lefties and the bottom of our lineup could potentially still have a ton of pop (if Brown matures and Ibanez can regain some of his form).

Of course, the wildcard here is Brown. If he comes into spring training and is ripping the cover off of the ball, then I don't know how you don't let him hit in a position of consequence (3rd or 5th).
I'd rather just let Francisco platoon with Raul and have Brown play every day. The kid hit lefties hit extremely well in the minors his whole career and he's not going to learn to bring that ability to the big leagues if you don't let him get the work in. If he absolutely can't hit lefties by mid-august, then go get a righty bat at the trade deadline.

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Old
11-12-2010, 10:19 AM
  #268
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I'd rather just let Francisco platoon with Raul and have Brown play every day. The kid hit lefties hit extremely well in the minors his whole career and he's not going to learn to bring that ability to the big leagues if you don't let him get the work in. If he absolutely can't hit lefties by mid-august, then go get a righty bat at the trade deadline.
Fair enough, but he still isn't going to play every day. Very few players are true every day players, especially in their rookie year. Maybe 100 was too few of a guess, but I don't see him playing more than 130 at any rate. Still more than enough ABs for Francouer.

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11-12-2010, 10:21 AM
  #269
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Fair enough, but he still isn't going to play every day. Very few players are true every day players, especially in their rookie year. Maybe 100 was too few of a guess, but I don't see him playing more than 130 at any rate. Still more than enough ABs for Francouer.
Why not just give the ABs to Gload and keep it within the org?

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11-12-2010, 10:47 AM
  #270
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Why not just give the ABs to Gload and keep it within the org?
Well, the obvious answer is that Gload is left-handed and is nowhere near the defensive presence of Francouer. I actually really like Francouer as a strong armed RF who hits .260-.270 in the 8-hole, but maybe I am in the minority.

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11-12-2010, 01:14 PM
  #271
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Francouer blows, I don't want him near this team at all.

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11-12-2010, 02:07 PM
  #272
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Well, the obvious answer is that Gload is left-handed and is nowhere near the defensive presence of Francouer. I actually really like Francouer as a strong armed RF who hits .260-.270 in the 8-hole, but maybe I am in the minority.
Well like I said above, I'm not interested in platooning Brown, so the righty/lefty distinction is meaningless in that context. Also, Francouer would be terrible in the 8 hole since he can't work a walk and turn the lineup over.

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Old
11-12-2010, 02:50 PM
  #273
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Francouer blows, I don't want him near this team at all.
Seriously, he's ****ing awful

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Old
11-15-2010, 09:05 AM
  #274
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According to Twitter, the Phillies resigned Contreras for 2 years 5 million.

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11-15-2010, 09:14 AM
  #275
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Good. Under ****ing used/poorly used all playoffs.

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