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Phillies 2010 Postseason: Red October IV, R2C2: Return of the Jedi

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Old
12-15-2010, 08:17 AM
  #901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Cannon View Post
Halladay won the Cy Young last year. As great as it is to have Lee again their is no reason for him to start opening day.
He'll start the 2nd game which is a Saturday. Those Saturday games are always insane and with Lee pitching it will be like opening day all over. Lucky me, my 17 game package has that game included.

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12-15-2010, 08:22 AM
  #902
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
It's amazing to think that the Ace from the 2008 World Series team is now 3rd in the rotation. That's scary good.
I'll go one further and say Hamels is really our #4. Halladay and Oswalt have better career ERA's then Hamels. Oswalt beats Hamels by almost half a run.

In fact, the worst career ERA out of those 4 is Lee whose career ERA is closer to 4 (but he spent most of his career in the AL, like Halladay, whose career ERA is still 0.2 lower then Hamels).

I'd rank our pitchers like this

Halladay
Lee
Oswalt
Hamels

and it's not really close. Based just on career stats, Oswalt could technically beat out Lee for the #2 spot, but I'm giving Cliff the benefit of the AL and that Cliff hasn't been dominant until recently when compared to guys like Halladay and Oswalt.

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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Honestly, I think Halladay and Lee should draw straws/play rock paper scissors for the number 1 and 2 spot in the rotation and then Cole and Oswalt should do the same for the number 3 and 4 spot.

I think that is both fair and would make a great TV piece.
Do I sense a 1 hour special coming? lol

IMHO
Halladay > Lee
Oswalt > Hamels

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Old
12-15-2010, 08:31 AM
  #903
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post

Do I sense a 1 hour special coming? lol

IMHO
Halladay > Lee
Oswalt > Hamels
While those rankings may be true (although I personally think Oswalt and Hamels is more of a wash than others do), the only question about our regular season at this point is how many wins we will lead the NL by.

I think it would be something fun for the players to participate in and it would also relieve any possible hurt feelings.

I mean, seriously, do you want to be Charlie Manuel when you are possibly telling Roy ****ing Oswalt that he will be the 4th starter after his career body of work? Or telling Cole that he will be the 4th starter with his well documented diva tendencies after the 2nd half of the season he just had?

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12-15-2010, 08:45 AM
  #904
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
While those rankings may be true (although I personally think Oswalt and Hamels is more of a wash than others do), the only question about our regular season at this point is how many wins we will lead the NL by.

I think it would be something fun for the players to participate in and it would also relieve any possible hurt feelings.

I mean, seriously, do you want to be Charlie Manuel when you are possibly telling Roy ****ing Oswalt that he will be the 4th starter after his career body of work? Or telling Cole that he will be the 4th starter with his well documented diva tendencies after the 2nd half of the season he just had?
They are all aces, so why would any of them give a ****? Tell them Halladay goes first and from then on out Oswalt splits the lefties. Tell them they are all really the number 1 starter, so the order is pretty meaningless.

Or since we play Houston first, just say "Look Cole, Oswalt is going third so he can face the Astros, then you go 4th and we also get to split the lefties up."

Hamels has nothing to be ashamed of by going 4th in the rotation. If anything, it means he has the toughest time since he knows he is being followed by Kyle ****ing Kendrick and that losing a Hamels game could mean losing a series considering who is following him up.

I mean, against the Astros you can roll out

Halladay
Lee
Oswalt (facing former team)

but the next series will look like

Hamels
Kendrick
Halladay

Still good, but not as good for sure.

Hell, tell Cole he is 4th because is clearly the youngest. I don't give a **** what you tell him really. The dude is 27, if he gets ******** because he pitches "4th" in a ROTATION then he shouldnt be here. Hamels games will be just as important as the Roy's or as Cliff's, so it's really irrelevant.

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Old
12-15-2010, 08:47 AM
  #905
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The pitching mismatches we're going to have early in the year will be absurd.

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12-15-2010, 08:56 AM
  #906
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Cole Hamels will be pitching against other #4 starters. Sweet.

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12-15-2010, 09:02 AM
  #907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The pitching mismatches we're going to have early in the year will be absurd.
Even with off days and stuff by mid season, our pitching mismatches will be crazy all year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Cole Hamels will be pitching against other #4 starters. Sweet.
For a few weeks, until off-days and rain-outs throw off the rotation.

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Old
12-15-2010, 09:09 AM
  #908
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Even with off days and stuff by mid season, our pitching mismatches will be crazy all year.
Yes, but early in the year with predictable rotation positions... we're going to definitely be getting 3-4-5 in series. Later on in the year you may be getting more of 1-2-3 just by chance.

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12-15-2010, 09:10 AM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Even with off days and stuff by mid season, our pitching mismatches will be crazy all year.



For a few weeks, until off-days and rain-outs throw off the rotation.
Even if the rotation is off the other team's by a game, he's STILL better than any other team's #3 or #5 pitcher

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Old
12-15-2010, 09:27 AM
  #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
For a few weeks, until off-days and rain-outs throw off the rotation.
Stop killing my buzz!

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12-15-2010, 09:31 AM
  #911
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Will your offense still be good? (only a casual baseball fan) I know you guys lost Werth, anyone coming in to replace him?

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12-15-2010, 09:33 AM
  #912
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Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Cole Hamels will be pitching against other #4 starters. Sweet.
Hopefully our team will be able to score runs for him now.

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12-15-2010, 09:38 AM
  #913
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Will your offense still be good? (only a casual baseball fan) I know you guys lost Werth, anyone coming in to replace him?
Honestly, our offense is VERY much in the air.

Essentially our problem comes down to this... who hits behind Howard.

If our top 4 of the lineup goes (as I assume it will, since Charlie loves it)
Rollins
Polanco
Utley
Howard

then who hits behind Howard?

Vic? Ibanez? Brown? Ruiz?

All of them have question marks and NONE of them scare opposing pitchers. Now, let us set up a scenario:

First inning, Rolling pops up to center field like every other at bat. 1 out. Polanco hits a double, Utley hits a single. Runnes 1st and 3rd, 1 out, Howard up.

Now, if a team is looking at this situation they are thinking: "who is going to hurt us if we walk Howard?". The answer is, honestly, no one. Howard will get thrown even worse stuff than usual without Werth backstopping him, and we ALL know he will STILL swing at it.

I propose we run the line-up like this:
Rollins
Vic
Polanco
Howard
Utley

or

Vic
Polanco
Rollins
Howard
Utley

Either of those scenarios gives Howard the protection he needs; however, I don't think Charlie will do it.

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Old
12-15-2010, 09:40 AM
  #914
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Is Cliff Lee being introduced today?

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Old
12-15-2010, 09:44 AM
  #915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Will your offense still be good? (only a casual baseball fan) I know you guys lost Werth, anyone coming in to replace him?
Assuming injuries come back down to a normal level rather than plaguing almost every damn player we have, it should be even better.

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12-15-2010, 10:05 AM
  #916
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Is Cliff Lee being introduced today?
I heard Press Conference at 1pm, but then also heard it's been pushed back. Searching for more info...

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Old
12-15-2010, 10:13 AM
  #917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Honestly, our offense is VERY much in the air.

Essentially our problem comes down to this... who hits behind Howard.

If our top 4 of the lineup goes (as I assume it will, since Charlie loves it)
Rollins
Polanco
Utley
Howard

then who hits behind Howard?

Vic? Ibanez? Brown? Ruiz?

All of them have question marks and NONE of them scare opposing pitchers. Now, let us set up a scenario:

First inning, Rolling pops up to center field like every other at bat. 1 out. Polanco hits a double, Utley hits a single. Runnes 1st and 3rd, 1 out, Howard up.

Now, if a team is looking at this situation they are thinking: "who is going to hurt us if we walk Howard?". The answer is, honestly, no one. Howard will get thrown even worse stuff than usual without Werth backstopping him, and we ALL know he will STILL swing at it.

I propose we run the line-up like this:
Rollins
Vic
Polanco
Howard
Utley

or

Vic
Polanco
Rollins
Howard
Utley

Either of those scenarios gives Howard the protection he needs; however, I don't think Charlie will do it.
I'm going to get FLACK for this, but I think we need to move Polanco down to 5.

Victorino (true leadoff)
Rollins
Utley
Howard
Polanco (true #2 in the order, but only RH bat with the batting average to support Howard, don't know his RBI %'s though, I kinda hate putting him here, but who else?)
Ibanez (blah)
Brown/Francisco (meh)
Ruiz
pitcher

Unless we can move Blanton and sign Magglio Ordonez mad cheap (which I would like for the right price).

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Old
12-15-2010, 10:21 AM
  #918
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Originally Posted by i am dave View Post
I heard Press Conference at 1pm, but then also heard it's been pushed back. Searching for more info...
Ironically enough, Jayson Werth's presser is today in Washington, at 1pm.

Hmmm, I wonder which one MLB network will cover live?!?


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Old
12-15-2010, 10:30 AM
  #919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Will your offense still be good? (only a casual baseball fan) I know you guys lost Werth, anyone coming in to replace him?
Good, but likely not terrifying (when healthy) like it has been. If they can be healthier this year, then they'll be more than fine offensively. Especially given the starting pitching they're going to get 4 out of 5 nights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Honestly, our offense is VERY much in the air.

Essentially our problem comes down to this... who hits behind Howard.

If our top 4 of the lineup goes (as I assume it will, since Charlie loves it)
Rollins
Polanco
Utley
Howard

then who hits behind Howard?

Vic? Ibanez? Brown? Ruiz?

All of them have question marks and NONE of them scare opposing pitchers. Now, let us set up a scenario:

First inning, Rolling pops up to center field like every other at bat. 1 out. Polanco hits a double, Utley hits a single. Runnes 1st and 3rd, 1 out, Howard up.

Now, if a team is looking at this situation they are thinking: "who is going to hurt us if we walk Howard?". The answer is, honestly, no one. Howard will get thrown even worse stuff than usual without Werth backstopping him, and we ALL know he will STILL swing at it.

I propose we run the line-up like this:
Rollins
Vic
Polanco
Howard
Utley

or

Vic
Polanco
Rollins
Howard
Utley

Either of those scenarios gives Howard the protection he needs; however, I don't think Charlie will do it.
We're going to be seeing a lot of platooning (theoretically), so the 5, 6, 7, and 8 slots will have a great deal of variance I assume.

It will be interesting if they consider pushing Ruiz up the lineup. He's very good in the 8 hole, which makes that a tough choice.

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12-15-2010, 11:01 AM
  #920
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I'd put Rollins in the 5 hole if it were me.

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12-15-2010, 11:12 AM
  #921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It will be interesting if they consider pushing Ruiz up the lineup. He's very good in the 8 hole, which makes that a tough choice.
There's a lot of pitchers who didn't have to lead off the following inning because of Ruiz. That's his superpower so I wouldn't want to mess with it. A great 8 hole hitter.

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12-15-2010, 11:31 AM
  #922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Cole Hamels will be pitching against other #4 starters. Sweet.
which could mean CY Young for him if he pitches like he did from from July 1st on.

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Old
12-15-2010, 11:33 AM
  #923
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Ironically enough, Jayson Werth's presser is today in Washington, at 1pm.

Hmmm, I wonder which one MLB network will cover live?!?

the Lee one is at 3 pm.

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Old
12-15-2010, 11:45 AM
  #924
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
I'd put Rollins in the 5 hole if it were me.
I'd do this. Victorino works well leadoff, and Polanco is a true #2 hitter. Utley and Howard have to be the heart of the order, and Rollins hit very well against lefthanders overall and did well from down the order in general last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
There's a lot of pitchers who didn't have to lead off the following inning because of Ruiz. That's his superpower so I wouldn't want to mess with it. A great 8 hole hitter.
I agree that he does that very well, and it's important, but if he's hitting anywhere close to .300 with a .400 OBP again, we have to utilize that if our offense is otherwise struggling again. Ideally, guys bounce back and that alone makes up for the loss of a guy like Werth, but if not then we might need to move Chooch around.

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Old
12-15-2010, 12:01 PM
  #925
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the Lee one is at 3 pm.
Cool, thanks for the heads up.


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