He doesn't suck, but he has serious flaws that you can take advantage of if you have the right personnel (lefties with sliders). If you don't have that, he's a big time problem for you to deal with.
I don't care who is hitting behind him... if I got a right on the hill against him, I'm not feeling too comfortable. If I have a lefty, I'm feeling alright... still not going to give him a ton of strikes, cuz he'll get himself out.
He's cheap, young, doesn't have control issues, nor head issues. doesn't panic with RISP, and is a ground ball pitcher. Much more viable option than Kendrick imo.
Also, Kendrick is a somewhat conceted guy who has no reason to be. There were multiple reports of he and Dubi butting heads this season, and that Dubi can't stand him.
He's cheap, young, doesn't have control issues, nor head issues. doesn't panic with RISP, and is a ground ball pitcher. Much more viable option than Kendrick imo.
What did he pitch, 10 innings this season in the big leagues? I'd suggest we give it more time before handing him the 5th starter role.
A bunch of retards from Texas burn a Cliff Lee shirt:
"A 24 dollar shirt gone to waste, because I thought he would re-sign with us. What an a-hole."
1) You can swear on the internet. Your mom's not gonna find out. She'd probably be more worried about the combination of you and an open flame.
2) If you buy merch for a player who turns FA agent in the off-season, you're on your own.
3) The shirt went to waste because you burned it. You could have given it to some clothes for the homeless organization or something.
Only really posted it because those idiots almost burn themselves a couple of times. Also, butthurt people are fun.
i hope these morons realize that without Lee they dont even beat the Rays. That being said, he should of walked Renteria and pitched to Rowand .
He doesn't suck, but he has serious flaws that you can take advantage of if you have the right personnel (lefties with sliders). If you don't have that, he's a big time problem for you to deal with.
I don't care who is hitting behind him... if I got a right on the hill against him, I'm not feeling too comfortable. If I have a lefty, I'm feeling alright... still not going to give him a ton of strikes, cuz he'll get himself out.
It's just frustrating seeing him look foolish against good lefty starters or lefty specialists. He's on the wrong side of 30 now and he doesn't strike me as a cerebral batter that's going to make up for a physical decline with a good eye and being a student of the game. Or, if he does, it will likely come with a sharp decrease in power... like we saw last season.
What did he pitch, 10 innings this season in the big leagues? I'd suggest we give it more time before handing him the 5th starter role.
I saw him play quite a few games in the minors, and he always has a good scouting report.
The bottom line is he has a better head on his shoulders than KK, and when you have a rotation like we do, there's no reason to have a sourpuss in the 5th spot.
i think worley should be given a chance to compete with him for the 5th spot.
I'm sure he will. If somebody is pitching well in ST, they'll prob start the season as the 5th starter. Unless I am wrong, I don't think they have any real commitment to having Kendrick as their 5th. They probably plan on it, but if someone out pitches him, I'm sure that person will get the nod, at least to start the season.
On another note, I am STILL arguing with my friend about whether or not Lee took less money to play in Philly. He is convinced for some reason that the Phillies offered more. He keeps throwing out all these numbers that I have not heard anywhere saying that I am so stupid and am only reading "Philadelphia" sources (which are ESPN.com, SI.com, MLB.com, and writers on Twitter). Yankees fans are too much to deal with sometimes.
Also this link is a pretty funny mess-up by the always accurate *******************.
A bunch of retards from Texas burn a Cliff Lee shirt:
"A 24 dollar shirt gone to waste, because I thought he would re-sign with us. What an a-hole."
1) You can swear on the internet. Your mom's not gonna find out. She'd probably be more worried about the combination of you and an open flame.
2) If you buy merch for a player who turns FA agent in the off-season, you're on your own.
3) The shirt went to waste because you burned it. You could have given it to some clothes for the homeless organization or something.
Only really posted it because those idiots almost burn themselves a couple of times. Also, butthurt people are fun.
They act all Cleveland about it. And then can't even get it lit (since they're doing it wrong).
It's just frustrating seeing him look foolish against good lefty starters or lefty specialists. He's on the wrong side of 30 now and he doesn't strike me as a cerebral batter that's going to make up for a physical decline with a good eye and being a student of the game. Or, if he does, it will likely come with a sharp decrease in power... like we saw last season.
While I think Phils fans can be too hard on Howard, I do think the physical decline point is going to be a significant issue.
I mean, he's not a quick bat to begin with and if he starts losing lower-body and/or wrist strength, there could be some ugly years ahead.
I'd feel a bit better if we had another reliable hitter in the lineup to be honest. Not like the Giants staff got weaker, so that problem is still there.
Why are you assuming our batting order will be the same vs. righty and lefty starters?
I don't care who you put behind Ryan Howard, the opposing manager/pitcher isn't going to change his approach to Howard unless the bases are loaded.
Whoa, someone actually realizes that lineup protection falls somewhere in the range between myth and wildly overblown? Didn't expect to see that around these parts.
My biggest concern right now is that these guys all throw at a relatively similar speed. In terms of hardest throwers, it would go Hamels > Doc > Lee = Oswalt. Doc, Lee and Oswalt are actually all about the same from a static speed perspective, but they all throw differently. Doc is downhill, Lee is attack the corners, and Oswalt is rising. Hamels can legitimately get into the mid 90's, possibly into higher mid 90s as he continues to develop his routine, but outside of that these guys are all 90-93mph fastball throwers. That's slightly worrying, and in that situation, having a guy like Jamie Moyer would not actually be a bad thing. Slow and control driven pitchers give a completely different look, and it would actually be a huge advantage imo.
That doesn't concern me too much. You see that a lot, especially in the NL, with a definite lack of power arms.
Hamels can hit 95 or even 96 some nights, Doc routinely hits 94, but that's it. And that's okay. It's not like guys will suddenly adjust to their disgusting stuff and amazing control. In fact, that these guys aren't flamethrowers is even better because it means they should age more gracefully. Don't go saying Doc and Cliff aren't control pitchers. They absolutely are.
A slow change of pace would be great, but I don't see many teams out there with a Jamie Moyer right now.
That doesn't concern me too much. You see that a lot, especially in the NL, with a definite lack of power arms.
Hamels can hit 95 or even 96 some nights, Doc routinely hits 94, but that's it. And that's okay. It's not like guys will suddenly adjust to their disgusting stuff and amazing control. In fact, that these guys aren't flamethrowers is even better because it means they should age more gracefully. Don't go saying Doc and Cliff aren't control pitchers. They absolutely are.
A slow change of pace would be great, but I don't see many teams out there with a Jamie Moyer right now.
No no no, you are missing my point. My point isn't that they don't throw hard enough - they absolutely do. What I'm saying is that they all throw within the same velocity range, with the exception of Hamels.
Hamels throws at around 93-96mph. Doc, Lee and Oswalt at about 90-93. None of that is bad, too slow, or anything else. What is is though, is the same. All 4 pitchers are giving the same look velocity wise, and while they do deliver the ball differently (Oswalt's rises, Docs moves on both a downward and side to side plane, and Cliff on a side to side plane) they are all the same general speed.
This means that teams are essentially getting the same looks each day they go out, just augmented. It's not like it was in previous years where Cole could pitch one day, and then Blanton the next, and there'd be a 6 mph difference on the fastballs being thrown. That change of speed day to day in a series - especially a playoff series - has a big effect on hitters. It means they have to adjust their timing from pitcher to pitcher, and it's one of the reasons the Marlins were terrible against Jamie - they just couldn't adjust on the fly from 90mph to 80-81, and even when they wanted to, their bats just didn't hold up. Now, that adjustment really isn't going to be necessary, except maybe from the rotation spot before Hamels to the rotation spot after.
My argument was not to get faster, it was actually to get slower. If you have to go from a slop-ball throwing 5th starter to Roy Halladay, or from a hard throwing, aggressive strike zone pitcher Cole Hamels to a slop baller, it makes it all the more challenging. It's why Time Wakefield still has a job with Boston, and can still be effective. I think that is the only flaw in this staff, and it's one that is completely overcome-able. I just wish we had someone to throw that junk, just to make it that much more difficult.
It makes me laugh how many Phillies fans when talking about the Yankees, still position themselves as the little guy against the Evil Empire. I love Cliff Lee but this signing is terrible for baseball. Yankees-Red Sox-Phillies, I hate to break it to you but you're all the same organization to the rest of us. If I'm a small market fan which I am, this signing raises doubts as to the long term stability and sustainability of my team in the Bigs. Congratulations however your pitching line-up is ridiculously sick and I'm sure baseball fans around the world are looking forward to next 5 autumns for Phils vs Yanks or Phils vs Sox.
I've got to completely disagree with, on multiple levels. If anything, the Phillies have shown that it is possible to compete not just talent wise, but monetarily with Boston and NY.
Boston and NY both have their own cable networks that provide the bottomless revenue to spend on their teams. The Phillies are almost entirely ticket sales. That should provide hope to other franchises. That it is indeed possible to compete economically just by putting a competitive team on the field, and having a stadium that people actually enjoy going to.
You seem to forget, that the nucleus of this team, is entirely homegrown. We didn't start with a $160m payroll. We built up to it, with good scouting and drafting. First spending the money to keep our own, rather than pissing it away like Florida, or KC or Pittsburgh.
Then building on our homegrown talent, by adding the missing pieces.
If we keep on winning, I think the Phils will be the model franchise for how to build up a losing franchise into a sustainable winner.
Whoa, someone actually realizes that lineup protection falls somewhere in the range between myth and wildly overblown? Didn't expect to see that around these parts.
It's not myth... it's just with Ryan Howard, the formula isn't exactly direct... and varies by situation.
If you're facing a righty pitcher and Ryan Howard is batting behind you, I guarantee you that you're seeing a fastball for a strike in a 3 ball count.
No no no, you are missing my point. My point isn't that they don't throw hard enough - they absolutely do. What I'm saying is that they all throw within the same velocity range, with the exception of Hamels.
No, I did get that, I was just making the argument from both perspectives of speed. And while that would be nice, it's unnecessary. They all have amazing offspeed pitches, and use their fastball to set those up. You don't need varying fastball speeds from game to game when these 4 can change speeds so effectively within each outing.
Plus, the ability to split lefty-right up as much as possible really makes it difficult, and might be the most difficult adjustment for hitters of all. Combine that with the fact that a guy like Oswalt has a completely differently delivery and arm slot from the guy before and after, etc., and it will still be lethal.
Pitchers went after howard alot this year, even in the playoffs in big situations. And usually 3 quick strikes and he's out. Breaking ball away, he flails, 2 fastballs in on the hands, he's out.
