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Old
10-24-2010, 09:20 PM
  #76
RaiderDoug
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Anyone who says Nashville can't/won't pay to keep their players simply isn't paying attention.

Players that Poile and Trotz identify as core guys are resigned. Look at Erat, Legwand, Hornqvist, Sullivan, Tootoo - all got competitive contracts to stay in Nashville. Both Weber and Suter will be resigned.

They'll also go out and identify players, and spend money to get guys that fit the Nashville system and fit the Nashville team game mindset. Guys like Lombardi, Dumont, Ward, Goc.

Even the offensive draft picks are guys that play the all-around game - like Colin Wilson or Austin Watson.

The biggest difference between the teams that have those big time offensive stars and the Preds are the fact that we have never been in a position to draft a Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kane, etc.

The only guy that Nashville lost that they 1. really wanted to keep, and 2. didn't have a backup plan with little to no drop off was Radulov. And that's more of a case of a guy wanting more money than the NHL rookie scale could pay.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:20 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
That's not wanting the most money though.

He publicly acknowledged that other teams were offering him more money but he took a discount to play in Vancouver, the city he wanted to play in.

Do you honestly think 3.5 million is a fair value for what Hamhuis brings to the table?
Absoutely I do. As trigg said earlier in the thread Klein is playing Hamhuis's role just as good as Hamhuis did last year at less than half the cost. BUT every offseason FA's that are identified as being on the top of heap at their respective position always get overpaid. I think he's worth 3.0-3.5. So I don't think Van payed a crazy amount or anything. Just normal going rate for a top of the heap FA.

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10-24-2010, 09:35 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Absoutely I do. As trigg said earlier in the thread Klein is playing Hamhuis's role just as good as Hamhuis did last year at less than half the cost. BUT every offseason FA's that are identified as being on the top of heap at their respective position always get overpaid. I think he's worth 3.0-3.5. So I don't think Van payed a crazy amount or anything. Just normal going rate for a top of the heap FA.
Have you watched Hamhuis since he got to Vancouver? Klein, quite simply is nowhere near the player that Hamhuis has shown to be so far this season. I know Nashville fans have completely turned against Hamhuis but that does not mean he can not move on to another team and play very, very well. Many other players have done it, and while it is way to soon proclaim Hamhuis a "new man" or whatever since coming to Vancouver, he has definitely been playing up to his salary.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:41 PM
  #79
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Nashville has been very good this season so far. I'm looking forward to Detroit playing them.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:44 PM
  #80
CloutierForVezina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goc Ya View Post
A second pairing defenseman, who isn't the most well rounded? Not IMO, 3.5 would be the MOST I'd give him.
With your airtight logic, Malkin is getting grossly overpaid because he's just a second line center, amirite?

Nashville has been blessed with an amazing surplus of very high end defensemen. They're really fortunate to have 2 top-10 guys to play on their top pairing. Knocking Hamhuis down and pegging him as merely a "second pairing defensemen" is inaccurate and a dishonest portrayal of his abilities.

Hamhuis has formerly shown the ability to be a very strong #1/#2 guy in Nashville back in 05-06, 06-07 and 07-08 where he had either the highest or second highest TOI among defensemen in Nashville. He was playing in surplus of 23 minutes a night as recently as 08-09.

In the games I've seen him play in Nashville and the small sample size I've seen him in after he came to Vancouver I'm really quite impressed with him. His skating, physicality and defensive presence are all very high end. His offense isn't the greatest, but his defensive qualities more than make up for it.

He's worth every single penny of his 4.5 million so far. Except for his injury but I'll give him a pass on that for now because he's been durable in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
Absoutely I do. As trigg said earlier in the thread Klein is playing Hamhuis's role just as good as Hamhuis did last year at less than half the cost. BUT every offseason FA's that are identified as being on the top of heap at their respective position always get overpaid. I think he's worth 3.0-3.5. So I don't think Van payed a crazy amount or anything. Just normal going rate for a top of the heap FA.
I completely disagree with your assessment. I think your judgment may be clouded by the fact you're spoiled with a top-10 defenseman making only 3.5 million per year.

4.5 million is a very fair price for a solid #2 defenseman. 3.0-3.5 million is a ridiculous undervaluing of him.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:46 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblerone View Post
Have you watched Hamhuis since he got to Vancouver? Klein, quite simply is nowhere near the player that Hamhuis has shown to be so far this season. I know Nashville fans have completely turned against Hamhuis but that does not mean he can not move on to another team and play very, very well. Many other players have done it, and while it is way to soon proclaim Hamhuis a "new man" or whatever since coming to Vancouver, he has definitely been playing up to his salary.
Neutral party, but I'd be willing to guess the number of Nashville games you've watched this year is less than 2.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:49 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by who_me? View Post
The point of playing every season is to win the Cup, not to be the best at asset management. Every team since the lock out have had to shed players because of the cap. Even Tampa had to. And most, if not all, are still competitive. And this is why Buffalo and Nashville have two of the highest win percentages since 2005 but no Cup.

BTW, do they hand out an award for best asset management every season?
I knew as soon as the Hawks won the cup...

Detriot-esque snobbery, but in the case of Detroit, they actually deserve it.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:49 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblerone View Post
and while it is way to soon proclaim Hamhuis a "new man" or whatever since coming to Vancouver, he has definitely been playing up to his salary.
It's good for Vancouver and him that he's been playing up to his new salary, but what he's making is not what we could offer him... not because he's not worth it (which it remains to be seen at this point but he was pretty horrid for us last year) but because Nashville simply couldn't afford it with Weber and Suter's extensions over the next 2 years and we let him walk.

Also, it humors me that people are bringing up the departures of Kariya, Vokoun, Hartnell, Forsberg (he was a rental and wasn't resigning anyways), etc as proof that players don't want to be here/we can't afford to keep them. The 07' offseason was a summer of hell for Preds fans while we watched a firesale of our players to deplete the team and get it ready to be packed up and sold. It was clearly the exception and not the rule if you look at how our team has been run since.

With Radulov, you have a primadonna who didn't want to wait out the NHL's rookie contract rules.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:50 PM
  #84
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They're just rolling right now good for them

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:55 PM
  #85
Kevin27nyi
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my favorite team in the west. smart management, great team, always a threat and draft well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webersmashpuck View Post
The scariest thing to me about the Preds is I don't think there is a team that have dealt with the injuries this year the Preds have.

Lombardi played in 1 full game.
Erat and Kostitsyn have missed time and don't look completely healthy.
Suter is out now.
Goc is out 2-4 weeks after a great start.
Rinne missed three games.,

We lose a top pairing defenseman, our goalie and one of our best centers and still havent lost in regulation. Hopefully we hold on for the win tonight to keep the streak.
webersmashpuck meet the islanders, islanders meet webersmashpuck.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:55 PM
  #86
Toblerone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilsp1ll View Post
Neutral party, but I'd be willing to guess the number of Nashville games you've watched this year is less than 2.
You would be very wrong I'm a huge Weber fan so I've actually been watching a lot of Pred's games over the last few seasons (I haven't watched all their games this year, but it's definitely more than two). I know that Hamhuis had some struggles throughout last year, but I also think he has the ability continue to be the player Vancouver has seen so far.

To comment on the actual thread though, it is great to see Nashville off to a great start. There are so well coached and have been getting scoring from everywhere. If they can keep up that depth scoring a divisional title is definitely not out of the question

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:56 PM
  #87
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While we are talking about Nashville,

Is Radulov ever coming back? He was one of my favourite players at the time.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:57 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
With your airtight logic, Malkin is getting grossly overpaid because he's just a second line center, amirite?

Wow, simply wow. Your entitled to your opinion, and can think Hamhuis is whatever you want to think he is. He is a good player no doubt but i have watched him for years and saw some good times and awful times. In reality Nash could have paid Hammer what he wanted but we didnt because his style was replaceable through our own system.

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Old
10-24-2010, 09:58 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PenguinsFan2008 View Post
While we are talking about Nashville,

Is Radulov ever coming back? He was one of my favourite players at the time.
Doesn't look like it no.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:10 PM
  #90
CloutierForVezina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goc Ya View Post
Wow, simply wow. Your entitled to your opinion, and can think Hamhuis is whatever you want to think he is. He is a good player no doubt but i have watched him for years and saw some good times and awful times. In reality Nash could have paid Hammer what he wanted but we didnt because his style was replaceable through our own system.
What part of my post, exactly, did you disagree with?

Since the lockout Hamhuis has played the 15th most minutes in the NHL among all defensemen.

It's amazing that a second pairing defenseman worth 3.0-3.5 million has played so many minutes. Absolutely astounding, even.

I'm not calling him Godly. I'm not calling him an elite #1 defenseman. I'm not saying he's close at all to either Weber or Suter, who are both top-10 defensemen. I am saying that he's a damn good #2 defenseman and paying 4.5 million for that kind of guy is fair payment.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:10 PM
  #91
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Nashville is my 2nd favorite team in the league after the Wings. Not everyone can appreciate a well-coached defensive style team. Suter/Weber/Rinne are going to be stars. Nashville is going to make the playoffs and compete in the very near future. They have the team, the coach, and the type of players needed to make a playoff run.

Also Collin Wilson is looking amazing this season, he could really be the difference maker needed in Nashville's offense.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:21 PM
  #92
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I also want to give props to Cal O'reilly, he has 6 points (1 goal 5 assists) in 8 games and has really been playing up to his potential.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:30 PM
  #93
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Predators STH here. Thanks for the kudos but STOP! We always seem to go on a losing streak when we get noticed by other fans/media.

While I am proud of the guys, I am very dissatisfied with Poile and Trotz. Poile couldn't draft a goal scorer if he hit him in the nose. Our continuing offensive woes are due in part to his poor forward drafting. Trotz calls out rookies and lets vets slide. I also just don't think he has any offensive savvy at all.

Regarding players that "we couldn't hold onto": Frosberg was a rental, basically tried to come back in Colorado and failed. Timmo wanted too much money and with the ownership issue up in the air, there's no way we could pay him. I don't think he was a very good captain either. Kariya got more money from St. Louis and did exactly what? He was productive for one season. I miss Hartnell but he was always in Che Bow Wow with Trotz. He is a much better fit in Philly. Voukon was traded before his NTC kicked in. Hamhuis was always going to be second fiddle to Weber/Suter. And with our defensive prospects he was replacable. Arnott was lazy and a lousy captain. He got traded rather than be embarrased at losing the captaincy. Radulov, immature Russian who got fame fortune and a free pass on playing D in KHL. Miss his scoring don't miss anything else.

Would I like a bigger payroll? Heck ya! But we got what we got and I'll support them with all I have.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:42 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
What part of my post, exactly, did you disagree with?

Since the lockout Hamhuis has played the 15th most minutes in the NHL among all defensemen.

It's amazing that a second pairing defenseman worth 3.0-3.5 million has played so many minutes. Absolutely astounding, even.

I'm not calling him Godly. I'm not calling him an elite #1 defenseman. I'm not saying he's close at all to either Weber or Suter, who are both top-10 defensemen. I am saying that he's a damn good #2 defenseman and paying 4.5 million for that kind of guy is fair payment.
You're right. The issue is that the Preds would be paying $4.5 mil for a #3/4 defenseman, and that is simply out of the team's price range if it wants to be financially solvent.

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10-24-2010, 10:43 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toblerone View Post
Have you watched Hamhuis since he got to Vancouver? Klein, quite simply is nowhere near the player that Hamhuis has shown to be so far this season. I know Nashville fans have completely turned against Hamhuis but that does not mean he can not move on to another team and play very, very well. Many other players have done it, and while it is way to soon proclaim Hamhuis a "new man" or whatever since coming to Vancouver, he has definitely been playing up to his salary.
I understand Hamhuis is playing big for you guys but in fairness to Klein, he has kept us from missing a beat this season. Klein has the talent to grow into a very outstanding defenseman, his skating is elite, his head just isn't yet.

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10-24-2010, 10:45 PM
  #96
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I like the way the Predators are getting recognition, but I'm a little leary of proclaiming anything in October.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:49 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
What part of my post, exactly, did you disagree with?

Since the lockout Hamhuis has played the 15th most minutes in the NHL among all defensemen.

It's amazing that a second pairing defenseman worth 3.0-3.5 million has played so many minutes. Absolutely astounding, even.

I'm not calling him Godly. I'm not calling him an elite #1 defenseman. I'm not saying he's close at all to either Weber or Suter, who are both top-10 defensemen. I am saying that he's a damn good #2 defenseman and paying 4.5 million for that kind of guy is fair payment.
Im just saying WE dont have that type of money to tie up on a 2nd pairing defenseman on the predators when WE have Weber and Suter ready for new checks soon. And plenty of youngsters coming up the ranks soon.....

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10-24-2010, 10:51 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predeuce777 View Post
You're right. The issue is that the Preds would be paying $4.5 mil for a #3/4 defenseman, and that is simply out of the team's price range if it wants to be financially solvent.
I agree completely - I am not trying to take anything away from the Preds by not re-signing Hamhuis. He made no sense for them because their main concerns should be locking up Weber/Suter for life and then letting their young defensemen battle for spots and develop.

My only argument was pretty much exactly what you're saying, Nashville didn't re-sign Hamhuis because he didn't make sense for them at his price range, not because he's not worth what he got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goc Ya View Post
Im just saying WE dont have that type of money to tie up on a 2nd pairing defenseman on the predators when WE have Weber and Suter ready for new checks soon. And plenty of youngsters coming up the ranks soon.....
Then we agree, I think. Maybe I just mis-interpreted what you were saying. When you said "The most I would give him", I thought you were assessing his value as a player - not his specific value to your team in its current situation.

As stated above, I do agree that Nashville just couldn't accommodate him. Unless he signed for a steal of a deal, you guys need to save your money for the big dogs, Weber and Suter, and let your very good young defensemen battle for spots and develop within your system.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:53 PM
  #99
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Most teams will have a streak where they don't lose in regulation or post a very high win percentage.

Preds happen to be having a streak right now.

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Old
10-24-2010, 10:59 PM
  #100
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The weirdest stat about Nashville being "undefeated" at 5-0-3 is they have 21 goals for and 17 goals against....that just doesn't look right.

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