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Old
10-25-2010, 07:44 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Big Ev View Post
Duncan Keith just won the Norris trophy. I don't think Karlsson has the potential to be as good all-around as Keith is.

I say Tomas Kaberle because it seems like Karlsson will be more of a set-up guy than a goal-scorer, which Kaberle is. Kaberle is a great offensive d-man but not one of the top d-man goal scorers like Weber or Boyle, etc.

and who knows what his ceiling is, he could become any current d-man, but I was just using Kaberle as my example.
Yeah. Because, you know, a 104 mph slapshot and 5 goals in his rookie year (not to mention 1 already in a year he's struggling, on pace for 10) clearly suggests that he won't score goals.

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Old
10-25-2010, 07:55 PM
  #77
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Yeah. Because, you know, a 104 mph slapshot and 5 goals in his rookie year (not to mention 1 already in a year he's struggling, on pace for 10) clearly suggests that he won't score goals.
104 MPH at 5'11'.

Very nice, must have a lot of power in the legs and wrists to record a shot that hard.

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Old
10-25-2010, 07:56 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HemskyToHall View Post
104 MPH at 5'11'.
Yeah. Must be skill and technique.

That said, while they (the media) have mentioned it on several broadcasts (Rangers MSG feed, as well as some SNET feeds), I've never seen the radar gun - so I can't personally verify the speed.

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:04 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
As for this trade, no thanks. Eberle is closer to his top level (very good 2nd liner IMO) but Karlsson has a higher ceiling.
I don't think you've seen Eberle play enough. His upside is Daniel Alfredsson.

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:05 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
I don't think you've seen Eberle play. His upside is Daniel Alfredsson.
Let's not get carried away here....

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:17 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
I'm simply calling it the way I see it. Karlsson has proved something in the NHL, and last season was easily the Senators best d-man down the stretch. He can change the pace of the game. He's proved more than MPS has.

Beyond that fact, while I admit it's possible MPS becomes a 1st line player, I don't believe it's as certain, and therefore, I don't believe a deal makes sense.

Finally, I credited Hall and Eberle already, I don't feel like it's unreasonable to dislike 1 of a team's prospects.



I love how stating an opinion is trolling. Did you miss the third paragraph where I spoke highly about 2 other Oiler prospects?
lol anyone can get hot down the stretch. cogs had 13 points in his last 16 games, him for karlsson?

gilbert was like crack after the deadline, him for karlsson.

oh wait in reality we dont base it off few game segments.


so ill keep our future first liner speed power forward with decent hands and you keep your undersized third pairing struggling dman

see what i did there? see how stupid it sounds

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:20 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Akonite View Post
Let's not get carried away here....
I don't think I am. His hands are ridiculous, you don't see very many scoring chances go to waste on his stick. His vision and passing is probably as good as his goalscoring ability if not better and he's probably our best defensive player with Horcoff. I think people saying his ceiling is a second liner are underselling him big time. His ceiling is that high for sure. I'm not saying he'll be Daniel Alfredsson but there's no question he has the potential to be that good and that's with all due respect to Alfys career.

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:20 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Yeah. Because, you know, a 104 mph slapshot and 5 goals in his rookie year (not to mention 1 already in a year he's struggling, on pace for 10) clearly suggests that he won't score goals.
gilbert beat paul coffey's rookie goals scored record, who do you take. if only life was as easy as looking at the tsn stats page

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:49 PM
  #84
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tempting...but no thanks

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:52 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
I don't think you've seen Eberle play enough. His upside is Daniel Alfredsson.
Alfie was arguably the best player in the world for a year. Eberle doesnt have that upside and I've seen a good amount of him. At best he will be a 70 pt guy with good D IMO. Not to say thats not awesome but thats not elite.

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:52 PM
  #86
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Both teams say no. Edmonton and Ottawa both want more because they value these guys so highly.

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Old
10-25-2010, 08:56 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
I don't think I am. His hands are ridiculous, you don't see very many scoring chances go to waste on his stick. His vision and passing is probably as good as his goalscoring ability if not better and he's probably our best defensive player with Horcoff. I think people saying his ceiling is a second liner are underselling him big time. His ceiling is that high for sure. I'm not saying he'll be Daniel Alfredsson but there's no question he has the potential to be that good and that's with all due respect to Alfys career.
He has the potential to be an 1000 point player? Alfie is 38 and is still a legit 1st line winger. How good do you expect Eberle to be?

I really agree though that Eberle is underrated. He has 1st line potential and after watching him in the dub, world juniors and in an oilers jersey I firmly believe he will be a 70+ point scorer. Why MSP is widely reguarded as a better prospect is beyond me.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Alfie was arguably the best player in the world for a year. Eberle doesnt have that upside and I've seen a good amount of him. At best he will be a 70 pt guy with good D IMO. Not to say thats not awesome but thats not elite.
What year was this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
He has the potential to be an 1000 point player? Alfie is 38 and is still a legit 1st line winger. How good do you expect Eberle to be?

I really agree though that Eberle is underrated. He has 1st line potential and after watching him in the dub, world juniors and in an oilers jersey I firmly believe he will be a 70+ point scorer. Why MSP is widely reguarded as a better prospect is beyond me.
As mentioned, I say it with all due respect to everything Alfys accomplished. Eberle can be that good.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:03 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
He has the potential to be an 1000 point player? Alfie is 38 and is still a legit 1st line winger. How good do you expect Eberle to be?

I really agree though that Eberle is underrated. He has 1st line potential and after watching him in the dub, world juniors and in an oilers jersey I firmly believe he will be a 70+ point scorer. Why MSP is widely reguarded as a better prospect is beyond me.
Yes a 1000 point face-of-the-franchise player is putting way too much expectations on Ebs.

And no MPS is still the better prospect, better hands, more dangerous offensively, has the tools to be effective defensively, strong with the puck, etc.

MPS has him beat in pretty much everything but Hockey IQ, which Eberle's is high so it's close.

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10-25-2010, 09:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
What year was this?


As mentioned, I say it with all due respect to everything Alfys accomplished. Eberle can be that good.
2007-2008. 4th in PPG behind Crosby Malkin and Ovie, and he was dominant defensively. Crosby missed around 30 games that year. IMO he was the best NHLer that year. He was absolutely incredible.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:10 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
2007-2008. 4th in PPG behind Crosby Malkin and Ovie, and he was dominant defensively. Crosby missed around 30 games that year. IMO he was the best NHLer that year. He was absolutely incredible.
Yeah we'll agree to disagree. Ovechkin scored 65 goals. Best player in the league and it wasn't close. I'd also argue that several players had betters seasons. Lidstrom and Iginla being two off the top of my head and Datsyuk being Datsyuk that he is every year and of course Marty St. Louis being his same consistent self. I recall Alfys 7 point game gave that p/g a big boost. And we're not talking "value to team" right? Just strictly how good a player?


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Old
10-25-2010, 09:13 PM
  #92
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Yeh, Oilers trade their poster child in year one.

Real smart proposal, real smart.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:26 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
2007-2008. 4th in PPG behind Crosby Malkin and Ovie, and he was dominant defensively. Crosby missed around 30 games that year. IMO he was the best NHLer that year. He was absolutely incredible.
Wow. I was curious when he asked you.
- was it going to be 2005-06?... when Alfie was T-4th in NHL scoring, 3rd in PPG, scored 48 points as a D-man on the PP (which would have had him 18th in scoring as a D-man), finished 4th in Selke voting, 5th for Hart, 4th for Byng, 2nd Team AS RW and the team finished 2nd overall in the NHL.
or
- was it going to be 2006-07?... when he led the team to the SCF's and was the best player in the postseason?

2007-08 kind'a threw me for a loop there. He was the leagues leading scorer at the All-Star break, but the season was otherwise unremarkable.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:29 PM
  #94
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The love for Karlsson from Sens fans is truly INSANE, and this is coming from a Sens fan. He's a promising young D-man but he hasn't proven ANYTHING yet. It's also looking like he could become a Marc-Andre Bergeron, somebody who has great PP and puck-moving skills but just can't play defence very well. The amount of times he gets beat in his own zone is ridiculous (so far; he can obvioudly chenge that through development). People think he can develop into a Drew Doughty but it just doesn't look like he has the ability.

I would definately trade Karlsson for Paajarvi or Eberle, We're already deep on D prospects, and since we have Gonchar for 3 years and Wiercioch and Rundblad coming in after that, then there would not be as much need for another offensive d-man as there would be for an elite forward. Eberle and Paajarvi are two of the most potentially elite forward prospects in the game.

Most of the people saying no to this deal have Karlsson in their avatar. That's surprising...
Averaged 25 minutes in the playoffs.

This guys a bust.

Quote:
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#1 defenseman in terms of PP and offense you mean...Phillips and Volchenkov were still the #1 defensemen on the team.


Also...MPS>Eberle.

Give it time. Magnus Paajarvi has the ability to take over a game just by using his physical aspect of the game. Once he develops properly in the NHL it's going to be on a more consistent basis giving defense man nightmares.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:35 PM
  #95
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We've seen Karlsson in high pressure situations already - at age 20 - and I don't want to move him for potential. I'd move him for a bonafide, young goal-scorer, but NOTHING less than that personally.
And Eberle hasnt been in any high pressured situations? Hes constantly put on the pk and has beent they beast player on the OIlers. Not to mention the many times he rose up to the occasion in the juiniors.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:37 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Also...MPS>Eberle.

Give it time. Magnus Paajarvi has the ability to take over a game just by using his physical aspect of the game. Once he develops properly in the NHL it's going to be on a more consistent basis giving defense man nightmares.
Both guys are tremendous players and MPS is obviously more physically talented(honestly when I saw Eberle in real life I was in disbelief that it was actually him, he looked like a regular joe) but Eberle just has that aura about him. Time will tell but I see Eberles ceiling as a bit higher. He's already the oilers best all around player believe it or not and I'll tell that to anybody who will listen. I don't think I've seen him lose a single battle all year he's just been that remarkable.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:38 PM
  #97
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Wow. You don't trade prospects that are doing well in the system they are in. The sooner this is realized, 50% of the crap on this board will be gone.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:39 PM
  #98
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MPS is the better player than Eberle at the moment, coming from fans who watch both players.
what? that's not true at all

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:39 PM
  #99
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Wow. I was curious when he asked you.
- was it going to be 2005-06?... when Alfie was T-4th in NHL scoring, 3rd in PPG, scored 48 points as a D-man on the PP (which would have had him 18th in scoring as a D-man), finished 4th in Selke voting, 5th for Hart, 4th for Byng, 2nd Team AS RW and the team finished 2nd overall in the NHL.
or
- was it going to be 2006-07?... when he led the team to the SCF's and was the best player in the postseason?

2007-08 kind'a threw me for a loop there. He was the leagues leading scorer at the All-Star break, but the season was otherwise unremarkable.
Honestly those 3 year I think he was easily a top 5-10 NHLer, I just seem to remember him being so incredible, but I think you're right... I was mostly remembering the first half.

I'm pretty exhausted, lets blame the mental lapse on that. I think I just had a year in my head and mixed it up, as he had more impressive achievement and played better the 2 years before.

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Old
10-25-2010, 09:40 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
Averaged 25 minutes in the playoffs.

This guys a bust.





Also...MPS>Eberle.

Give it time. Magnus Paajarvi has the ability to take over a game just by using his physical aspect of the game. Once he develops properly in the NHL it's going to be on a more consistent basis giving defense man nightmares.
Right, I said he was a bust

Man, I hate Sens fans sometimes....so sensitive about everything.

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