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Kostitsyn against his 2003 draft collegues

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Old
10-27-2010, 06:39 PM
  #1
Bounbi
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Kostitsyn against his 2003 draft collegues

The 2003 draft has been a constant subject of discord and habs draft bashing over the last years for taking Kostitsyn over X or Y.

I know this is pretty (extremely) soon in the campaing, but let's look, just for fun, how is AK46 doing against his draft year counterparts.

I'm really not saying that AK is better than most of the guys in that table. It is clear that a number of those players are having a slow start. Their PPG totals are impressive in comparison to AK's.

Also, a positive factor in Kostit's case is the emergence of Turtleneck Pleks.

However, the question I would like to ask is: would it be possible that AK is a kind of late bloomer, and in a long term perspective, that his numbers will be closer to the Getzlaf, Perry, Carter and Richards of this world?

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Last edited by Bounbi: 10-27-2010 at 06:46 PM.
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Old
10-27-2010, 06:43 PM
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Good idea for a thread but perhaps this should be done at the 42nd and 82nd game marks.

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10-27-2010, 06:45 PM
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As you said, 8 games is not enough to judge, and one season is not even enough to judge either.

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10-27-2010, 07:22 PM
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As if we could have had Getzlaf, Perry, Richards, Seabrook or Parise over Kostitsyn. Starting to like AK now but damn, those guys are all high quality players. Ah the joys of scouting/drafting.

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10-28-2010, 09:18 AM
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FuriousBob
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It took Jeff carter 4 full season in the NHL before becoming the impact player he is now.


Let just hope it's the same with A.K.

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10-28-2010, 09:43 AM
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Evil Ted
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuriousBob View Post
It took Jeff carter 4 full season in the NHL before becoming the impact player he is now.


Let just hope it's the same with A.K.
umm 4 full seasons?

His 1st season he scored 23 goals, 2nd season was when philly was terrible finished last he missed 20 games and he still scored 14. 3rd season he scored like 29 goals and his 4th he scored 49.

So yeah his best season came 4 years in but he was well established from his rookie campaign

Im going to be honest this off season I was for moving Kostitsyn and still even now I am somewhat skeptical of how long he will keep his play up, watching him in the playoffs last season frustrated me because if he contributed a few goals or even some consitent effort the habs probably go to the stanley cup finals.

Having said that I hope he continues to score goals and make plays away from the puck, prove me wrong.

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10-28-2010, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuriousBob View Post
It took Jeff carter 4 full season in the NHL before becoming the impact player he is now.


Let just hope it's the same with A.K.
Difference IMO, is.....Carter was born with the gumption and competitive streak, AK is 'fragile'....and tends to feels sorry for himself and mope. Unfortunately, since it's between the ears and behind the rib cage, AK will always live and die by the stars. Carter is a fierce competitor who does not let his effort, mental readiness get compromised easily by inside or outside influences, AK does.

We all know AK has a lot of natural ability, the question to me is, can he handle the pressures of being a NHL'er, especially in any real hockey town.

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10-28-2010, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Difference IMO, is.....Carter was born with the gumption and competitive streak, AK is 'fragile'....and tends to feels sorry for himself and mope. Unfortunately, since it's between the ears and behind the rib cage, AK will always live and die by the stars. Carter is a fierce competitor who does not let his effort, mental readiness get compromised easily by inside or outside influences, AK does.

We all know AK has a lot of natural ability, the question to me is, can he handle the pressures of being a NHL'er, especially in any real hockey town.
You mean Carter was born and raised in the USA lol.
I think the biggest thing for Kostitsyn was the language barrier. Even now it is still there but it's improving at least.

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10-28-2010, 10:13 AM
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LesCanadiens
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Originally Posted by Aznrx8 View Post
You mean Carter was born and raised in the USA lol.
I think the biggest thing for Kostitsyn was the language barrier. Even now it is still there but it's improving at least.
No sir! Larionov, P.Bure, Ovechkin, Markov etc etc etc didn't/don't have that issue, language or not.

I can also name numerous N.A players that are weak-spined and soft-brained as well...it has little/nothing to do with language or nationality. I fail to see how not knowing English causes you to not skate hard, and/or be mentally prepared and competitively spirited enough to make a positive difference over the long haul. Going 20 some odd games without a goal, as AK did last year, speaks volumes. He has to find a way to compete much more consistently, or he'll be a distant memory in no time. He's doing great right now, and I'll happily eat crow, but not until he shows value consistently. We've seen spurts from AK before, only to see him lapse back into horrible, horrible play. Lets hope he's finally found his way, for good.

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10-28-2010, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
No sir! Larionov, P.Bure, Ovechkin, Markov etc etc etc didn't/don't have that issue, language or not.

I can also name numerous N.A players that are weak-spined and soft-brained as well...it has little/nothing to do with language or nationality. I fail to see how not knowing English causes you to not skate hard, and/or be mentally prepared and competitively spirited enough to make a positive difference over the long haul. Going 20 some odd games without a goal, as AK did last year, speaks volumes. He has to find a way to compete much more consistently, or he'll be a distant memory in no time.
Andrei did have some injury woes though as well, plus he takes meds for his epilepsy, and you could tell he was tentative after he got concussed or whatever. I always thought the problem with him was confidence not heart, I bet we would have seen more of this Andrei last year but his brother was a huge distraction, partly AK's fault for letting it get to him but still blood is thicker than water.

He has always had top end talent and now it seems like he believes it as well, which is good for the Habs and us.

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10-28-2010, 10:24 AM
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Carter was born with gumption and a competitive streak? Seriously?

And AK is weak-spined?

Where do you get this crap? Carter's far from gritty - in fact he's the exact opposite - he's also far from one of the more competitive players in the league. He's also not american.

Go ask Philly fans if Carter is full of gumption......

AK's biggest issue has been conditioning - it's not just a coincidence that he always had slow starts - he never came to camp in great shape - all you have to do is be a half step behind at the NHL level to struggle.

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10-28-2010, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
umm 4 full seasons?

His 1st season he scored 23 goals, 2nd season was when philly was terrible finished last he missed 20 games and he still scored 14. 3rd season he scored like 29 goals and his 4th he scored 49.

So yeah his best season came 4 years in but he was well established from his rookie campaign

Im going to be honest this off season I was for moving Kostitsyn and still even now I am somewhat skeptical of how long he will keep his play up, watching him in the playoffs last season frustrated me because if he contributed a few goals or even some consitent effort the habs probably go to the stanley cup finals.

Having said that I hope he continues to score goals and make plays away from the puck, prove me wrong.
AK first full season: 26 goals
Second season was when all the roster (especially is linemates Pleky and Kovy) played bad, 23 goals
thirs season, he was injured and missed about 20 match but still managed to get 15 goals...

Him not saying he will be as good as carter... I'm not even comparing them except the fact that Carter took 4 season before he developped completly into the hockey player we know now and I think it could be the same for AK

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10-28-2010, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Aznrx8 View Post
You mean Carter was born and raised in the USA lol.
I think the biggest thing for Kostitsyn was the language barrier. Even now it is still there but it's improving at least.
You mean Carter was born and raised in good ol' Canada.

Personally I feel the biggest problem with Andrei is that he was always babysitting Sergei. He does have quality talent in him but I feel he had too many distractions off the ice.

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10-28-2010, 10:35 AM
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On the whole, the AKost selection looks Ok at the moment.

Even now, there are players taken after him that I'd probably rather see on the Habs than AKost... but there are also players taken before him that I'd rather have AKost than (such as Michalek and Zherdev).

I'm actually pretty confident that AKost will keep it up for the rest of this season, as long as him and his linemates stay healthy, and Martin keeps relying on his ATM machine.

Like Martin said, this is a contract year for AKost.

The big question is if AKost will keep it up after he gets the pay increase, like Pleks has done.

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10-28-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Im going to be honest this off season I was for moving Kostitsyn and still even now I am somewhat skeptical of how long he will keep his play up, watching him in the playoffs last season frustrated me because if he contributed a few goals or even some consitent effort the habs probably go to the stanley cup finals.
Having said that I hope he continues to score goals and make plays away from the puck, prove me wrong.

Agreed, if we had more secondary scoring from the likes of AK and BP perhaps we would have had our 1st trip back to the cup finals since '93.

It's going to be interesting to see how guys like Kostitsyn, Price, BP and even Pleks do in the playoffs this year, assuming we make it of course. Not saying they won't do well but there's question marks on all of them come playoff time, if they can produce. With the way Pleks looks, I have no doubt he's going to light it up this year, and it's great to see Price and Kostitsyn rebound.

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10-28-2010, 11:05 AM
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AK was out of shape in the playoffs as he was coming back from a long term injury - he's not out of shape now. He has that extra step back - which for him and most NHLers is critical.

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10-28-2010, 11:29 AM
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Aznrx8
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Originally Posted by Dgill View Post
You mean Carter was born and raised in good ol' Canada.

Personally I feel the biggest problem with Andrei is that he was always babysitting Sergei. He does have quality talent in him but I feel he had too many distractions off the ice.
Oops my bad lol

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10-28-2010, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Haberdashery View Post
Carter was born with gumption and a competitive streak? Seriously?

And AK is weak-spined?

Where do you get this crap? Carter's far from gritty - in fact he's the exact opposite - he's also far from one of the more competitive players in the league. He's also not american.

Go ask Philly fans if Carter is full of gumption......

AK's biggest issue has been conditioning - it's not just a coincidence that he always had slow starts - he never came to camp in great shape - all you have to do is be a half step behind at the NHL level to struggle.
I get it ("this crap") from actually watching the games, as opposed to reading the forums or studying the stats. It seems to serve me well. Carter is waaaay more involved and integral to his team, game-by-game, over the season than AK is. How about a trade straight across....you'd do it, wouldn't you?

And the second statement in bold, tells you what? I know what it tells me - it tells me this is a guy not dedicated enough to take the time and effort to come into camp, in shape, and ready to help his team. But I'm curious what your take is.

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10-28-2010, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
On the whole, the AKost selection looks Ok at the moment.

Even now, there are players taken after him that I'd probably rather see on the Habs than AKost... but there are also players taken before him that I'd rather have AKost than (such as Michalek and Zherdev).

I'm actually pretty confident that AKost will keep it up for the rest of this season, as long as him and his linemates stay healthy, and Martin keeps relying on his ATM machine.

Like Martin said, this is a contract year for AKost.

The big question is if AKost will keep it up after he gets the pay increase, like Pleks has done.
I know martin was joking, but some people still believe this to be true. I hope all of you know that the K bros do not care about money as im sure they have plenty of it. They come from a family of wealth, very wealthy apparently, so i highly doubt money is an issue for them.

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10-28-2010, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
I get it ("this crap") from actually watching the games, as opposed to reading the forums or studying the stats. It seems to serve me well. Carter is waaaay more involved and integral to his team, game-by-game, over the season than AK is. How about a trade straight across....you'd do it, wouldn't you?

And the second statement in bold, tells you what? I know what it tells me - it tells me this is a guy not dedicated enough to take the time and effort to come into camp, in shape, and ready to help his team. But I'm curious what your take is.
Carter is not highly competitive - it's always been the biggest knock against him going back to his draft year - has more talent in his index finger than most of us have in our entire family gene line. How the hell would I come up with that opinion based on reading stats? Has nothing to do with stats.

I have worked for an NHL team and have many contacts - one of my good friends scouts for the Flyers - he's the first to admit that Carter's lack of work ethic and propensity to avoid the dirty areas are his main issues, and why the Flyers tried very hard to trade him a couple of seasons ago just before he broke out. My friend was disgusted with his perimeter play in the playoffs last year too.

As for AK being out of shape - I wasn't using it as an excuse for his disappointing play in the past, I was using it as an explanation. I agree - not being in shape points to his character, but to call him weak spined is unfair and uncalled for. I think not having his brother around has been a positive - from what I can ascertain they did a lot of partying together. AK wouldn't be the first NHLer that needed to do some growing up - doesn't mean he's weak spined. Easy for us internet experts to sit back and demean people who are playing in the NHL...every one of us would trade place with any of the "weak spined" players in a second though. If you ask me..people who sit behind a keyboard and and make such malicious assertions are the ones with weak spines, or at the very least inferiority complexes.

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10-28-2010, 12:07 PM
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Look at the draft, and put your list of who you would take right now. As good as Kosty is playing right now, he's not top 5 in your list...and that's only for the guys chosen behind him. Mind you, if he ends up being regular till the end of his career and be a 30-35 goal scorer, the gap will evidently be smaller than it is since the others have started their NHL career...

If you would have picked anybody else that is doing great la Carter, Getzlaf etc., if somebody would have come to you and say that we should have picked Kostitsyn who's doing great now compared to the "others", you would have mentioned that let's wait to see how consistant he is since the others have kinda proove their consistency over the years.

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10-28-2010, 12:08 PM
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Haberdashery nailed it

The party is over for Andrei, this is his job now and he comes in to work


Last edited by That Habs Fan: 10-28-2010 at 12:16 PM.
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Old
10-28-2010, 12:19 PM
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Haberdashery
 
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Look at the draft, and put your list of who you would take right now. As good as Kosty is playing right now, he's not top 5 in your list...and that's only for the guys chosen behind him. Mind you, if he ends up being regular till the end of his career and be a 30-35 goal scorer, the gap will evidently be smaller than it is since the others have started their NHL career...

If you would have picked anybody else that is doing great la Carter, Getzlaf etc., if somebody would have come to you and say that we should have picked Kostitsyn who's doing great now compared to the "others", you would have mentioned that let's wait to see how consistant he is since the others have kinda proove their consistency over the years.
He was picked tenth overall, and right now, he's looking like a top 15 guy. How do you think Rangers fans feel about picking Jessiman?

Look at the history of the draft - any time you can get a guy who is arguably within five spots of where you drafted him you did okay. There are lots of examples of top five picks who weren't even top 50 players from their draft - that's when a player is a bust.

Prople have been calling AK a bust on here since the day he was drafted, and that is, and has been, blatantly unfair.

Yes there were players drafted after him that have been better - the same can be said for many other teams as well - in the history of the draft - every year there are players picked later in the first or later in the draft who end up being better than players picked early....yet for some reason folks have to constantly bring up 2003...like it's the only time it ever happened, and that the only team it's ever happened to is Montreal.

what makes it ridiculous is that, at the end of his career, AK may still end up being one of the top ten first round picks from 2003...right now he's playing like it, and a couple of years ago he played like it - he's still only 25, and for all we know he may be a 40-goal, ppg player for the next half dozen years...

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Old
10-28-2010, 12:20 PM
  #24
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I know martin was joking, but some people still believe this to be true. I hope all of you know that the K bros do not care about money as im sure they have plenty of it. They come from a family of wealth, very wealthy apparently, so i highly doubt money is an issue for them.
Looking to increase your wealth has nothing to do with how much you already have.

For some people it's never enough.

Not that I'm saying A. Kost is greedy, or is only playing because it's a contract year.. but it's possible he is. Martin did say that he was not in good shape last season. So what was the issue that prevented him from getting in good shape the last 2 seasons ?

Anyway, even if he's putting extra effort just because it's a contract year.. it's possible that it's going to give him a taste of what he could be if he applied himself more and that Plek and our leadership will rub off of him and he won't sit on his next contract.

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10-28-2010, 12:30 PM
  #25
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umm 4 full seasons?

His 1st season he scored 23 goals, 2nd season was when philly was terrible finished last he missed 20 games and he still scored 14. 3rd season he scored like 29 goals and his 4th he scored 49.

So yeah his best season came 4 years in but he was well established from his rookie campaign

Im going to be honest this off season I was for moving Kostitsyn and still even now I am somewhat skeptical of how long he will keep his play up, watching him in the playoffs last season frustrated me because if he contributed a few goals or even some consitent effort the habs probably go to the stanley cup finals.

Having said that I hope he continues to score goals and make plays away from the puck, prove me wrong.
You grossly underestimate AK and you're being unrealistic to the nth degree. He was injured and not fully in shape in the playoffs, although he did score a hat trick against the Caps. Even Cammalleri didn't do that. Also, Cammalleri is a powder puff next to AK. His hitting and D are far superior to his smaller linemate's. Where would the Habs find a better replacement in his mid-20s? Will the tooth fairy bring him? Will Eller be that man? No, because he doesn't have AK's shot.

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