I think the biggest problem with this team is at forward. Both defensively AND offensively.
They are slow, small and not good enough.
They are unable to sustain any offensive zone pressure, they cannot create any offense 5on5, they don't force turnovers and are terrible in moving through the neutral zone.
Their only success comes from drawing penalties and scoring on the PP. Hence, Wisniewski and Parenteau's "good stats"
Their defense is solid. They play a very simple game, and efficient game. They move the puck quickly or tap it off the glass and out of trouble. Mottau, Eaton, Martinek (and MacDonald, for sure) do this extremely well. The others are sub-par and get seriously exposed with additional minutes...that's obvious.
Good post... Agree with this
I don't think the defense has been horrible and will only get better when Streit and Mcdonald are back. Dp obviously has not played well.
The Fowards are too small and slow and do not create much offense 5 on 5.
I think the biggest problem with this team is at forward. Both defensively AND offensively.
They are slow, small and not good enough.
They are unable to sustain any offensive zone pressure, they cannot create any offense 5on5, they don't force turnovers and are terrible in moving through the neutral zone.
Their only success comes from drawing penalties and scoring on the PP. Hence, Wisniewski and Parenteau's "good stats"
Their defense is solid. They play a very simple game, and efficient game. They move the puck quickly or tap it off the glass and out of trouble. Mottau, Eaton, Martinek (and MacDonald, for sure) do this extremely well. The others are sub-par and get seriously exposed with additional minutes...that's obvious.
Usually agree with you redbull, but will agree to disagree :-), I feel the defense has been awful. Mottau has been worse than Gervais and Hillen. I like Eaton but he makes 1-2 mistakes a game, probably due to excessive minutes. Wisniewski gets beaten 5-7 times per game as well.
Yes the forwards are small and losing Park and Bergenheim without replacing them was inane. You have to put almost all of your top 6 guys on the PK now (Bailey, Moulson, and Comeau), wherease last year only Comeau and Okposo saw PK time. The top 6 guy get tired, if anyone is wondering why Comeau and Bailey are MIA I think killing penalties wears them down.
PAP and Schremp cannot be carried on the same roster, it is quite simple.
Mottau has been worse than Gervais and Hillen. I like Eaton but he makes 1-2 mistakes a game, probably due to excessive minutes. Wisniewski gets beaten 5-7 times per game as well.
Yes the forwards are small and losing Park and Bergenheim without replacing them was inane.
The defense has looked bad, but they are under serious pressure from the opposing forwards. The Islanders are too slow or too soft to slow down opposing forwards through the neutral zone. The other teams attack with speed and seem to have a guy open all the time.
I don't blame the defense for this.
They make mistakes, sure, but they don't exactly have options out there.
There isn't one Islander forward who's got size and speed.
Even their best all-around players are either too small or not very good NHLers (Some may get there one day or may not)
Park and Bergy?
Both very marginal players but I tend to agree with you about their lack of upgrade in that area.
I mean, to add Parenteau (basically a Schremp clone), Grabner (a stab in the waiver dark at offense), Sim and Hilbert (basically AHL players at this stage) is completely pointless.
You basically have Tavares, Bailey, Okposo, Nielsen, Comeau and Moulson as your key forwards. I'd argue that group is NOT among the best in hockey - far from it at this stage. Why not support them with some quality NHL players instead of high risk, low reward players?!
Ray Whitney, Corey Stillman, Colby Armstrong even Adam Mair - players who can BALANCE the forward group. Provide leadership, kill penalties, add a dimension of speed or size.
I really don't get the logic on how the roster is put together and what rebuilding really means on Long Island.
As a fan, I'd much prefer to hear Wang proclaim
Quote:
"I'm tired of losing money on the franchise and getting screwed by the county on my real estate development project. I will sell the rebuilding story to my diminishing but loyal fan base but aim to spend as little as possible on the team. This includes roster players, scouting staff and ex-Islander Hall of Famers"
The defense has looked bad, but they are under serious pressure from the opposing forwards. The Islanders are too slow or too soft to slow down opposing forwards through the neutral zone. The other teams attack with speed and seem to have a guy open all the time.
I don't blame the defense for this.
They make mistakes, sure, but they don't exactly have options out there.
There isn't one Islander forward who's got size and speed.
Even their best all-around players are either too small or not very good NHLers (Some may get there one day or may not)
Park and Bergy?
Both very marginal players but I tend to agree with you about their lack of upgrade in that area.
I mean, to add Parenteau (basically a Schremp clone), Grabner (a stab in the waiver dark at offense), Sim and Hilbert (basically AHL players at this stage) is completely pointless.
You basically have Tavares, Bailey, Okposo, Nielsen, Comeau and Moulson as your key forwards. I'd argue that group is NOT among the best in hockey - far from it at this stage. Why not support them with some quality NHL players instead of high risk, low reward players?!
Ray Whitney, Corey Stillman, Colby Armstrong even Adam Mair - players who can BALANCE the forward group. Provide leadership, kill penalties, add a dimension of speed or size.
I really don't get the logic on how the roster is put together and what rebuilding really means on Long Island.
As a fan, I'd much prefer to hear Wang proclaim
At least that would be sincerity and honesty.
I think we tend to agree that the veteran forward presence on this team is very lacking, each game we play a team that has these types of guys on their roster. Travis Moen, Radek Dvorak, Stillman, etc... We should have gone after John Madden or a Steve Begin type of bottom 6 guy.
I will buy the argument that Lombardi didn't want to play here, he might be a huge Lady Antebellum fan and wanted to go to that hockey wonderland in Nashville. I will buy that Matt Cullen wanted to play for his hometown team that still roots for the Lone star team.
I also know that Owen Nolan is a big dude that can play hockey and would have been great for this team and he had his cell phone ready to take calls.
If you could not upgrade on Richard Park, you could have signed him for one more year and not lose him to the Zurich Zipperlickers
It does look like the wide open Alaska frontier when the PMS line takes the ice, not even Kotex can stop the bleeding.
Axe or Peta aren't even bold enough to hire you though.
Maybe a beer company or vodka company?
How about a hockey team with bad PR and a worse product?
Hey LOL.. I am in marketing... and you mentioned one of my clients in the small world of things.
But, the bottom line is that no matter how many times you move the furniture and shop at the Dollar Store, you still will have a handyman's special and that is what we have.
LOL, with Nino are numbers have to be pretty good too. LOL
But seriously this was the case after the Black Hawks game where he broke his foot. Right now we are forced to have Martinek clean up mess after mess all game long.
I have to keep doing this...tonight was clearly an overtime game if we had MacDonald, mainly because Mottau would have been on the bottom pairing and Eaton on the 2nd pairing, and either Gervais/Hillen would have been next to PAP eating fried chicken strips.
Islanders with MacDonald (4-1-2, 10 points in 7 games)
Islanders without MacDonald (0-7-0, 0 points in 7 games)
Islanders with MacDonald (4-1-2)
Islanders witout MacDonald (0-4-0)
After he broke his foot last year I think we had similar dropoff in record.
At least Snow locked him up cheap for 4 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull
red herring, seriously.
What's the Rangers record with Avery now, anyway?
do you really think andy macdonald would make a difference against the flyers? would grabner or schremp?
i'm not even sure okposo and streit would help significantly!
i really like MacDonald, he's a very effective defenseman who's come a long way from what was expected of him. But even on this team he's a #4-#5 defenseman who's not offensive, not big and not physical.
Just reality.
At this point, there's correlation, not causation.
But, it is the same with Kyle Shoot-from-my-knees-Toe-Drag Okposo. A better player is out, so a less skilled player has to go in.
Its that simple.
Andy Big Mac is a good defender, very good positionally.
You're taking a man with good hockey sense out of the line-up and replacing him with a man that isn't as good.
At this point, there's correlation, not causation.
But, it is the same with Kyle Shoot-from-my-knees-Toe-Drag Okposo. A better player is out, so a less skilled player has to go in.
Its that simple.
Andy Big Mac is a good defender, very good positionally.
You're taking a man with good hockey sense out of the line-up and replacing him with a man that isn't as good.
Law made my avatar 7 games ago. Correlation or causation?
I don't disagree about AMac. He's the 3rd best defenseman on this team after Streit and Martinek IMO.
But even Bobby Orr won't help a team that trots out that forward crop out there. I've said since camp - this is a team built for shootouts and powerplays.
We are seeing the value of AMac, KO, and Streit. All three of these players can alter the dynamics of the game beyond goals for and against.
Case in point, KO's ability to hang onto the puck in the offensive zone creates opportunities, wears the other team down (resulting in more PPs etc.), and minimizes play in D zone, which likewise fatigues the team.
AMac and Streit both calm the play down in the D zone and facilitate the transition currently better than any of our D men.
All 3 of these players are mobile and are sorely missed.
On the note of mobility, for a team that emphasizes forechecking and "overspeed," external help wasn't brought in that jives with the system, sans Grabner.
The common denominator on the ice in some of these games was DP. Check the games he and MacDonald played in for an eye-opener. Andy Mac is terrific, but he can't move mountains. His missing games is not the issue.
DP makes the whole team tighten up- I have seen most every game DP has ever played for the islanders, and I have never seen an Islanders squad more uneasy and nervous when this model of DP is between the pipes. It's not even funny at this point.
Rollie can't get on a roll because he is pegged as the number two goalie here- no matter how well he plays, he knows DP will always get the benefit of the doubt and most starts.
Snow and Gordon know Rollie is better, but Wang's contract has DP being given chance after chance- perhaps they are secretly hoping DP gets hurt...I am sure more tha a few players on the team are at this point- how can they not be?
This team needs to make a decision soon on whether DP is going to be sent down to the AHL, or just bought out.
Either that, or they risk the season, and the proper development of their young players.
This losing streak isnt about Macdonald. The Islanders gave away many points to Dipietro because Gordan would be fired if he didn't give Dipietro half the starts. THe Isles threw away points. Islanders politics has allways been about the good old boy club. Milbury was in, Dipietro/Snow/Weight are in. These people are part of Wangs "entourage"...winning is not top priority. Friendships first, $$ second...winning 3rd.
Now that said, even if Dipietro was never on the team, the Isles are still one of the worst 5 teams in hockey. THats a consistent, reliable trait of the Islanders organization for most of the past 2 decades.
Law made my avatar 7 games ago. Correlation or causation?
I don't disagree about AMac. He's the 3rd best defenseman on this team after Streit and Martinek IMO.
But even Bobby Orr won't help a team that trots out that forward crop out there. I've said since camp - this is a team built for shootouts and powerplays.
I might say MacDonald is ahead of Martinek but only slightly. Martinek has been having a great early start, but MacDonald rarely ever gets beat. Martinek gets beat and will give up the errant pass, and has to fight to get back... but Martinek is very close to shut down type this year.
Maybe it is the avatar and not the MacDonald Effect. Bobby Orr would help this team LOL, he could double shift and we can carry PAP and Schremp on the roster for the shootout while we suit up 5 dmen LOL...
I think besides shootouts and powerplays we are being built for the UFC as well, we suit 3 pugilists and still signed Mr Yablonski in the offseason.
I think we if made a huge offer to Lombardi we would not feel this as much, or if we just made offers to Frolov or Ponikarovsky. At least those guys know how to positions themselves.
Nothing is more frustrating that watching Grabner or Konopka go to the puck and vacate their area of the ice, it is open season for any team with a dman with a cannon shot. Watch the next few games with Doughty and Boyle and it won't be pretty.
You knew this bump was going to take effect. I am convinced with each game not having this player is killing us. Defensive depth changes, a lot of pucks are either cleared out or kept in, and much less odd man rushes.
Team with MacDonald (4-1-2, 10 points, 7 games)
Team without MacDonald (0-8-0, 0 points 8 games)
I wish I was his agent at this point, but Snow's biggest gem move was signing this guy for 4 years very cheap.
You knew this bump was going to take effect. I am convinced with each game not having this player is killing us. Defensive depth changes, a lot of pucks are either cleared out or kept in, and much less odd man rushes.
Team with MacDonald (4-1-2, 10 points, 7 games)
Team without MacDonald (0-8-0, 0 points 8 games)
I wish I was his agent at this point, but Snow's biggest gem move was signing this guy for 4 years very cheap.
Ted Nolan knows talent.
4 offensive lines, 3 d pairings and a goalie make a hockey team. Andrew MacDonald is a solid contributor to the team but his absence isn't responsible for an 8 game losing streak. For whatever reason, these players stopped doing things that they did the first 3 or 4 games. when they were good, the power play was killing it. many posters noted that the team would be in trouble if that dried up b/c the players like PAP, Wiz, Tavares etc were getting all their points on the powerplay. Well, they were right, and here the islanders sit near the basement of the east on an 8 game losing streak. while they'll win one soon, it's going to be another losing season not because andrew macdonald got hurt, but because the roster lacks what it takes to win 5 on 5.
4 offensive lines, 3 d pairings and a goalie make a hockey team. Andrew MacDonald is a solid contributor to the team but his absence isn't responsible for an 8 game losing streak. For whatever reason, these players stopped doing things that they did the first 3 or 4 games. when they were good, the power play was killing it. many posters noted that the team would be in trouble if that dried up b/c the players like PAP, Wiz, Tavares etc were getting all their points on the powerplay. Well, they were right, and here the islanders sit near the basement of the east on an 8 game losing streak. while they'll win one soon, it's going to be another losing season not because andrew macdonald got hurt, but because the roster lacks what it takes to win 5 on 5.
It is more symptomatic of the top forward being out and the top defensive pairing being out, and stretching the roster to do what these guys do.
Streit and Okposo are the best 5 on 5 players on the team. Like it or not MacDonald is a top pairing dman.
I feel I have to be MacDonald's agent on here, as well as Hunter's lawyer, and Comeau's psychologist LOL
Well I have fun with this thread, because I started it after the losing streak was mild. MacDonald's injury is the compounding factor.
I hate to bring this up, especially in a game where our defense was brutal.
Team with MacDonald (4-1-2, 10 points in 7 games)
Team without MacDonald (0-9-1, 1 point in 10 games)
I know some have commented on the fact that MacDonald isn't going to put the puck in the net, so what does that have to do with anything... but with MacDonald on the ice, we keep the puck deeper, we don't use Gervais, do not take dumb penalties etc... Plus he was starting to be on the PP.
