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Blockbuster: Devils (Parise +) Vs Blues (Erik Johnson +)

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Old
10-28-2010, 01:30 PM
  #26
Prussian_Blue
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No interest whatsoever in Langenbrunner.

Replace Langenbrunner with Vladimir Zharkov, send both Corrente and Alexander Vasyunov, and add a pick conditional on wether or not Zharkov sticks at the NHL level (2nd 2011 if no, 4th 2011 if yes). You can also dump Bryce Salvador's salary on the Blues if you need to unload a contract in the $2.5-3MM range.

St. Louis is getting one legitimate NHL star for two legitimate upwardly-mobile NHL players on the verge of breakout. The prospects/picks are to even out the difference if both Johnson and Backes become the big-time players they are trending towards becoming... and, admittedly, to show Uncle Lou a big middle finger for all the grief he's caused the Blues' franchise and their fans over the last two decades.

Kicking Lamoriello while he's down is an idea that would appeal pretty strongly to a lot of people in St. Louis... and, I dare say, to a lot of people around the hockey world, as Lamoriello has made enemies elsewhere besides here.

This move takes a big bite out of the Blues' defense, and Corrente and Salvador together will probably not fill that hole completely... but the Blues have Cole in the AHL, and Ponich and Shields both in their last year of junior, so there's quality depth on the way.

And Parise is the big-time scorer that this franchise has been lacking since Brett Hull. Dealing from an area of strength and depth (defense) to address that need -- and also address a shortcoming at LW in the organization as a whole -- with a player who's still in his mid-20's is exactly the right way to go about it.

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10-28-2010, 01:47 PM
  #27
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Why no interest in Langenbrunner?

Why make such a great offer to NJ when a player could be had for much less?

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Old
10-28-2010, 02:46 PM
  #28
HANDZ 57
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I don't think the value is that far off but with the type of raise Parise is going to get, the blues would be better of just keeping EJ and seeing what type of UFA they can bring in. I didn't look at the potential UFA crop for the next few seasons but I'd feel more comfortable trying to get a "Parise-light" type goal scorer in the 5-6 mil range in UFA then to have to give up EJ and still spend 7+ mil on Parise. Plus I'm still hoping they can re-sign backes to a 10 year 35milish deal and keep him for a long long time.

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Old
10-28-2010, 02:56 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
I strongly believe Brodeur is the reason for most of the playoff failures the Devils have had (excluding the Rangers one in 07-08, where they just had your number all year). I'd blame the defense as well, but Brodeur is a big reason in my books.
Have you watched the Devils in the playoffs? It's the team not giving a **** and Brodeur having to stand on his head. Brodeur is not the reason

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10-28-2010, 03:02 PM
  #30
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DATW is one of HF's finest posters, but I'd file this proposal under "How to make a bad situation in NJ worse."

Not because the talent exchange is radically wide. (It's not, though I have serious doubts that St. Louis would consider this deal, too).

Its because of the timing. The Devils are strong candidates for the worst team in the league, currently.

However, no one would have seriously considered this exchange on October 1st. Ten hockey games and 27 days later should not be sufficent to change one's opinion.

Sorry, that's unhealthy, kneejerk rationale.

Just my opinion.


Last edited by Trottier: 10-28-2010 at 03:28 PM.
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Old
10-28-2010, 03:02 PM
  #31
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The Blues don't make the deal. Parise is a great player. Just defense in general wins cups for the most part. The Blues are off to a pretty good start they don't need to make any big moves. I will even say the value is there. Just it makes no sense from a Blues standpoint.

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10-28-2010, 03:07 PM
  #32
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Replace Corrente / Eckford for something with more value and I would do that if we can sign Parise on a long term contract.

Even though we all love EJ, a guy like Parise is exactly what separate us from a title shot in the near future.

Obviously we would miss him, guys like Pietrangelo, Polak, Cole and some experienced dman that we can add next season with Brewer's salary coming off the books, give us a solid defence for the future.

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10-28-2010, 03:12 PM
  #33
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im am down for trading parise but i would talk to LA. I like there johnson and brown.

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10-28-2010, 03:21 PM
  #34
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If you make this trade it destroys the chemistry and dynamic of this team. We can look at it like its NHL11 or from an asset management standpoint, but thinking realistically, from a financial standpoint and from a winning standpoint its a dumb move.

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:22 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
DATV is one of HF's finest posters, but I'd file this proposal under "How to make a bad situation in NJ worse."

Not because the talent exchange is radically wide. (It's not, though I have serious doubts that St. Louis would consider this deal, too).

Its because of the timing. The Devils are strong candidates for the worst team in the league, currently.

However, no one would have seriously considered this exchange on October 1st. Ten hockey games and 27 days later should not be sufficent to change one's opinion.

Sorry, that's unhealthy, kneejerk rationale.

Just my opinion.
On my part, I started a thread a week after we landed IK from Atlanta. I suggested that if we were to resign IK to a LTC (15 years wasn't what I was expecting ) and the depth we have at left wing (IK, Elias, Rolston, Tedenby)... wouldn't it be better for us to land a proven #1 PMD?

I got flammed beyond belief but I was expecting that. Parise is the poster boy for 99% of this fanbase and the word Parise and trade in the same sentence will only create "steroid rage" thrown your way.

If you want to know exactly how I feel.... post #262 http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=833774&page=11

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10-28-2010, 03:23 PM
  #36
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I'm still lost on why we'd swap Backes for Lagenbrunner...

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:26 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
On my part, I started a thread a week after we landed IK from Atlanta. I suggested that if we were to resign IK to a LTC (15 years wasn't what I was expecting ) and the depth we have at left wing (IK, Elias, Rolston, Tedenby)... wouldn't it be better for us to land a proven #1 PMD?

I got flammed beyond belief but I was expecting that. Parise is the poster boy for 99% of this fanbase and the word Parise and trade in the same sentence will only create "steroid rage" thrown your way.

If you want to know exactly how I feel.... post #262 http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=833774&page=11
Which is why NJ would probably avoid trading him at all costs.

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:32 PM
  #38
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We more than likely can't keep EJ and Pietrangelo long term. Even if we could does it really make sense to have them both on 5-7m deals? With an opportunity like this I'd take it. I made a proposal like this in the main trade thread but it was EJ+MacDonald for Parise. That would be the one I'd ultimately like to do.

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:33 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEVILS ALL THE WAY View Post
On my part, I started a thread a week after we landed IK from Atlanta....
I'll concede that there is some logic behind the idea of balancing the roster, as you've alluded to in the past (which will probably now place me directly in line of the 'roid rage. ). And, I'd even entertain those Parise options, at least on a cursory level. But not at this point.

Again, I feel strongly that the worst thing NJD could do right now is precisely what 95% of NJD posters are suggesting and what 100% of this board would love to see: rash, punitive moves on the part of Lou.

Counter-intuitively, on October 28th - yes, despite an abysmal 2-7-1 start - they need stability. For they have had none, since July 1st. That alone will not turn the team around. However, it will allow you to truly evaluate what you do and do not possess. Ten games are not sufficent, not for this observer.

Guess what I'm saying is that you do not move forward with a major heart surgey until all other options are exhausted. Because one way or the other, the patient will never be the same. Moving Parise now would be radical. Exciting for HF to ponder, but not necessarily wise, by any measure.


Last edited by Trottier: 10-28-2010 at 06:00 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
10-28-2010, 03:34 PM
  #40
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EJ = untouchable.

All right folks, show's over. Move along now - there's nothing left here to see.

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:34 PM
  #41
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Why in the Hell the Devils would ever want to trade Parise is beyond me.

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10-28-2010, 03:38 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyesinBlue View Post
I'm still lost on why we'd swap Backes for Lagenbrunner...
ha i was just thinking the same.. I love Parise, and it would be wonderful to have him a Blues uniform.. I just don't think I could move EJ to get him.. I love the way this team is setup. A 1-2 punch of EJ and Petro.. throw in Cole, Polak, Ponich, i'm sure i'm forgetting others.. but the defense is set for years. I haven't seen our transition game this good since the Pronger and MacInnis days. I rather hold onto EJ, and let a guy like Tarensenko be our goal scorer. Players like EJ dont come around very often.

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:40 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BoyesinBlue View Post
I'm still lost on why we'd swap Backes for Lagenbrunner...
Who's dumb idea was that? Oh yeah...the OP.

NJ cannot possibly expect value in return. They're going to have to go the road of Philly in the Gagne-for-a-pylon trade. They have to fix their cap situation and every other GM knows that NJ can be had.

DEVILSALLTHEWAY has to realize that Lamiorello really screwed things up and that the organization is going to have to pay for that mistake. They are not going to get value in return because they can't take on monetary value. This is supposed to be a dumping of salary; not a dumping and then add on a little.

Only a very stupid GM will help out Lamiorello by giving him a decent return.

I can't blame the OP for wanting a good return.

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:42 PM
  #44
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I don't see the Blues trading both Johnson and Backes in the same trade, even for someone like Parise. If the Blues felt like they would rather have Parise than Johnson I'm sure any difference in value could be balanced using picks or prospects.

Personally I wouldn't trade Johnson for Parise at this point. The Blues' top six is already crowded and next season it could also include Tarasenko and possibly McRae. While the Blues have a relatively deep pool of defensive prospects, after Ian Cole the development time for those players increases greatly(2 or 3 seasons or possibly more). Developing forwards takes less time than developing defensemen... St. Louis has been patient in letting their defensemen develop and should keep that defensive core intact(Johnson, Pietrangelo, Polak, Cole). Why waste time developing more defensemen when filling inadequacies on the forward lines may be accomplished by just continuing to let the young forwards develop as well as adding from a talented stable of forward prospects(with a shorter development time than the defensemen), and if they still feel underpowered up front they can always look toward free agency.

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10-28-2010, 03:44 PM
  #45
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You know what might help the Devils? A big shutdown Dman to help stabilize things on the back end. Like that Volchenkov guy. No, he's not the sexy puck-mover that some want to add, but maybe he helps settle things down to the point where they start playing winning defensive hockey. Just maybe.

If they're still terrible after they see how they play with him in the lineup, then that might be a more appropriate time to analyze things re making changes.

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Old
10-28-2010, 03:44 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
I'll concede that there is some logic behind the idea of balancing the roster, as you've alluded to in the past (which will probably now place me directly in line of the 'road rage. ). And, I'd even entertain those Parise options, at least on a cursory level. But not at this point.

Again, I feel strongly that the worst thing NJD could do right now is precisely what 95% of NJD posters are suggesting and what 100% of this board would love to see: rash, punitive moves on the part of Lou.

Counter-intuitively, on October 28th - yes, despite an abysmal 2-7-1 start - they need stability. For they have had none, since July 1st. That alone will not turn the team around. However, it will allow you to truly evaluate what you do and do not possess. Ten games are not sufficent, not for this observer.

Guess what I'm saying is that you do not move forward with a major heart surgey until all other options are exhausted. Because one way or the other, the patient will never be the same. Moving Parise now would be radical. Exciting for HF to ponder, but not necessarily wise, by any measure.
I agree but I don't see us upgrading our defense anytime soon. Lou isn't going to overpay in free agency ala Brian Campbell and if we have to rely on the draft, we'll get our guy in 2019.

I miss Niedermayer

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Old
10-28-2010, 04:22 PM
  #47
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I very much like the idea of trading for Salvador. Just a simple trade.

A 5th or 6th-round draft pick for Salvador. Or maybe someone like Strachan or Oystrick for Salvador.

I could see Lamiorello wanting a body for the roster, which is fine, plus he'd have a little bit of breathing room to give him time some time to make a bigger trade when he's not so desperate. The concussion issue, however, makes me rethink everything.

I've had my eye on Salvador. He's only 34 and is signed through the 2011-2012 season.

I keep hearing how deep St. Louis is on defense. Well...before the coming of Petro, The Blues were not deep on defense. They have another great blue-chip prospect in Cole, but who's after that. Nikitin is nobody until he pulls a Pietrangelo.

If Salvador can return and show that he's symptom-free, then I'd go out there and grab him.

Gee....it's fun playing internet GM!!!!

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Old
10-28-2010, 04:27 PM
  #48
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how about AP + Backes + pick for Parise

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Old
10-28-2010, 04:45 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
Who's dumb idea was that? Oh yeah...the OP.

NJ cannot possibly expect value in return. They're going to have to go the road of Philly in the Gagne-for-a-pylon trade. They have to fix their cap situation and every other GM knows that NJ can be had.

DEVILSALLTHEWAY has to realize that Lamiorello really screwed things up and that the organization is going to have to pay for that mistake. They are not going to get value in return because they can't take on monetary value. This is supposed to be a dumping of salary; not a dumping and then add on a little.

Only a very stupid GM will help out Lamiorello by giving him a decent return.

I can't blame the OP for wanting a good return.
Our situation and the Gagne situation is completely different. Zach is a top 10 forward in this league and he's the last option for cap relief. We have sooooo many other options if we need to cut cap space (waive Salvador/Zubrus or trade Langenbrunner for a Gagne like package)... so yeah, he's not a option.

Langenbrunner is a proven leader and as clutch as you can get in the playoffs but he needs a change of scenery. The Blues are a young team and adding a leader like Jamie would help them tremendously IMO once the post season comes around.

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Old
10-28-2010, 04:53 PM
  #50
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To La: Zach Parise, Brian Rolston
To NJ: Wayne Simmonds, Jarrett Stoll, Thomas Hickey, 2010 1st round pick.

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