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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:08 AM
  #76
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Horcoff's contract is one of the worst in the league. Spezza's is pretty high too. The Oil wouldn't take a contract of Spezza's size unless it gets them a top ten player in the NHL. Spezza isn't one. Penner's contract isn't bad at all. If you think it is, you need to pay attention more, so you can understand the game he brings.
Spezza is the 17th highest paid player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
If Penner was actually available, Murray would be on him like Britney Spears on a ****. Your. GM. Loves. Dustin. Penner.

He signed him as a UFA out of college, tried to trade him for Heatley, and there were rumors about him asking about Penner's services last season. He loves Penner.

Lol. Everything about this post is wrong.
Ottawa's Offense for the Foreseeable Future:
Tier 1: Spezza 27 ($7.0M), Alfie 37 ($4.875 + $0.7)
Tier 2: Michalek 25 ($4.33), Fisher 30 ($4.2), Kovalev 37 (this season only)
Potential Tier 2: Regin 24, Foligno 22, Butler 23, Hoffman 20, Silfverberg 20, Petersson 20, Caporusso 21
Potential Tier 1: Nobody.

We do not need to clog up available cap space with your 45 point player. If a high-priced player is to be acquired, he needs to be a lot better than Dustin Penner (even if he costs a lot more). Ottawa is in no position to compromise and I've been saying this repeatedly in every trade proposal involving Ottawa here... look at that little chart above this paragraph: it should be telling you that the value to Ottawa of additional 45-55 point players is nothing.

Penner's value to Ottawa = nothing
Gagner's value to Ottawa = nothing
Cogliano's value to Ottawa = nothing
Horcoff's value to Ottawa = nothing

We don't want them, we don't need them and there isn't any 2nd line ice time available here now or in the near future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karzanPalani View Post
Lot's of name calling on Penner here I mean don't you think so it's crazy because if he was on your team last year he'd be leading them in Goals & 2nd in pts so what does that say about your team if Penner is a Floater? giant sack of crap?
He had a career season and our best players were decimated by injuries last year.
He's a 45 point player making $4.25M that we don't need.

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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
the way you say you guessed it makes it sound like you think you just burned someone. if spezza gets 5 points in 41 games does his value lower? if you say yes why not its only half a season.

its almost as if players get rated on how they play and if they improve their play their rep improves, thats insane
Someone who regularly produces at a much higher pace than 45 points is usually worth more. Penner has done that for exactly less than half of 1 season in his career.

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Originally Posted by brigzz View Post
Oilers are rebuilding say it with me r-e-b-u-i-l-d-i-n-g, once we're ready to comptere again spezza will retire. We'd be trading away some of young players, we cant do that
That could be a decade from now or longer.

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:55 AM
  #77
StayThirstyMyFriend
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Gagner, Cogliano and Horcoff have no value in Ottawa since we have similar players that are much better (Regin > Gagner, Shannon = Cogliano, Fisher > Horcoff) but there is no player like Penner and he would be very useful here. There is a reason why Murray wants him.

To get him, all Ottawa could offer and that Edmonton could reasonably expect is some of the budding but unproven defensive prospects which they could use as part of the rebuild. Big kids with a ton of offensive upside like Rundblad or Wiercoch would do well for the rebuild but that probably wouldn't be enough.

Edmonton fans who say they wouldn't trade Gagner and Penner for Spezza are just clueless. The loser in that trade would by far be Ottawa. Spezza is much better than any player currently on that roster and even if his contract is daunting, but that just means he won't be bailing from Edmonton anytime soon like some of their young prized prospects will when they get the chance.

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:59 AM
  #78
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Regin isn't better than Gagner.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:11 AM
  #79
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriend View Post
there is no player like Penner and he would be very useful here. There is a reason why Murray wants him.

To get him, all Ottawa could offer and that Edmonton could reasonably expect is some of the budding but unproven defensive prospects which they could use as part of the rebuild. Big kids with a ton of offensive upside like Rundblad or Wiercoch would do well for the rebuild but that probably wouldn't be enough.
We can and do use Michalek and Foligno like Penner. Murray wanted him last summer, before he acquired Michalek and before Regin had a great finish to last season.

I would rather have Rundblad (SEL=15-4-7-11) playing in the NHL at 21, 22 & 23 yo for a total of $4.5M than pay Penner $4.25M next season before he becomes a free agent.

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Old
10-30-2010, 10:19 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The OttoMan View Post
Regin isn't better than Gagner.
Gagner is good no doubt and will continue to improve. Both players have 2nd center potential. However, Regin is bigger and a better 2 way player - I know because I watch a lot of Edmonton games (my 3rd favourite team). Gagner gets more headlines because, on a team with less depth, he has been given more opportunity to succeed whereas Regin has been relegated to 3rd and 4th line ice time - with the exception of last year's playoffs because of all the injuries.


Last edited by StayThirstyMyFriend: 10-30-2010 at 11:07 AM.
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Old
10-30-2010, 10:31 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
We can and do use Michalek and Foligno like Penner. Murray wanted him last summer, before he acquired Michalek and before Regin had a great finish to last season.

I would rather have Rundblad (SEL=15-4-7-11) playing in the NHL at 21, 22 & 23 yo for a total of $4.5M than pay Penner $4.25M next season before he becomes a free agent.
Yeah, we all know how much success in Europe means when when they come to North America (Brunstrom, Wick, etc).

Foligno is a hard worker but will never develop beyond a third liner and Michalek plays a different game than Penner. Besides, Penner is more durable than any of the top 6 players we currently have.


Last edited by StayThirstyMyFriend: 10-30-2010 at 11:08 AM.
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Old
10-30-2010, 11:12 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriend View Post
Foligno is a hard worker but will never develop beyond a third liner and Michalek plays a different game than Penner.
Michalek is used as a screen, drives the net and plays down low. He's used a lot like Penner is.

Foligno turns 23 tomorrow, Penner doesn't even make the NHL for what? ... Another year at this point in his career?

Foligno 21 yo = 32 point pace.
Foligno 22 yo = 35 point pace... in what was described by many as a disappointing season due the offseason passing of his Mom and a broken leg suffered later in the year.

Penner 24 = 45
Penner 25 = 47
Penner 26 = 39
Penner 27 = 63
... And that's an entire career spent on the top-2 lines of a team, while Foligno is still working his way up from the bottom-2 lines.

Penner adds nothing to this team. We should be saving money for a goalie now and then a 1st liner later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriend View Post
Yeah, we all know how much success in Europe means when when they come to North America (Brunstrom, Wick, etc).
Yeah.
Ovechkin, Backstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Alfredsson, Sedin, Sedin, Malkin, Kopitar, Semin, Gaborik, Kovalchuk, Lidstrom, Lundqvist, Nabokov, Kipprusoff, etc.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:24 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
Michalek is used as a screen, drives the net and plays down low. He's used a lot like Penner is.

Foligno turns 23 tomorrow, Penner doesn't even make the NHL for what? ... Another year at this point in his career?

Foligno 21 yo = 32 point pace.
Foligno 22 yo = 35 point pace... in what was described by many as a disappointing season due the offseason passing of his Mom and a broken leg suffered later in the year.

Penner 24 = 45
Penner 25 = 47
Penner 26 = 39
Penner 27 = 63
... And that's an entire career spent on the top-2 lines of a team, while Foligno is still working his way up from the bottom-2 lines.

Penner adds nothing to this team. We should be saving money for a goalie now and then a 1st liner later.
I won't argue about needing a starting goaltender but guys the size of Penner and who can put the puck in the net like he does aren't that common. Penner's points from the last two seasons come from playing in Edmonton, so he should get a little credit for that.

Foligno has played with top 6 talent on and off and hasn't really stuck. He is strong on his skates and shifty but he will never be as good a finisher as Penner.

Michalek does go in front of the net but he can and does get moved from the front of the net - plus so far he seems a lot more brittle. He is used that way but I don't think he is nearly as effective. His most effective game is creating space for himself and his linemates with his speed rather than powering his way to the net with brute force like Penner.

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Old
10-30-2010, 11:37 AM
  #84
trentmccleary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriend View Post
I won't argue about needing a starting goaltender but guys the size of Penner and who can put the puck in the net like he does aren't that common. Penner's points from the last two seasons come from playing in Edmonton, so he should get a little credit for that.
Guys who have the same impact on a game as Penner are extremely common.

In Edmonton, he gets ice time and PP time that he wouldn't get on better teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriend View Post
Foligno has played with top 6 talent on and off and hasn't really stuck. He is strong on his skates and shifty but he will never be as good a finisher as Penner.
He's occasionally been used as a fill-in on the top-2 lines because he's 22-23 yo and he barely gets any PP time.

Penner is a 20-30 goal, 45 point PP screen. He's not exactly setting a high standard here. Nick Foligno scored 17 goals at 21 yo. I could see him regularly being above 20 at his peak too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StayThirstyMyFriend View Post
Michalek does go in front of the net but he can and does get moved from the front of the net - plus so far he seems a lot more brittle. He is used that way but I don't think he is nearly as effective. His most effective game is creating space for himself and his linemates with his speed rather than powering his way to the net with brute force like Penner.
Michalek has played less physically this year than last. As he gains confidence in his knee again, I'm sure he'll start to push back more often @ 225 lbs more like he was playing last season.

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