HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

How to win by teaching kids to cheat!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-07-2011, 06:05 PM
  #1
Headcoach
Registered User
 
Headcoach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 746
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Headcoach Send a message via MSN to Headcoach Send a message via Yahoo to Headcoach
How to win by teaching kids to cheat!

Check this out.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sp...117388693.html

Ok, what do you think? Do you think the coaches were smart? Or, do you think they should be kicked to the curb and never be allowed for them to coach again?

Head Coach

__________________
Hundreds of Hockey Drill for FREE at http://www.passthepuck.net
Headcoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 06:17 PM
  #2
dabeechman
Registered User
 
dabeechman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,749
vCash: 500
Like the reporter said...that's an embarrassment...

dabeechman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 06:19 PM
  #3
hlrsr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,408
vCash: 500
I can't view the video for some reason, but I feel I need to say -

Take the fall! Act hurt! Get indignant!

hlrsr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 06:26 PM
  #4
mbeam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 335
vCash: 500
That link wasn't working for me so I googled and found this one:
http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/vid...ersy/1d2gf3nvg
In case anyone has the same issue...

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's a shame when this happens but all they're doing is ensuring themselves the best chance in the tournament, which I think is more a problem with tournament structure than disrespectful coaching. They were giving their team the best chance to win within the rules.
...wait, are Santa Clara in the tournament? If they're not even in the state tournament then this is just disgusting and vengeful and unnecessary. If they are, though, then maybe its good tactics. That said, I'd like to see some sort of rule implemented making this illegal. It's classless and disrespectful.

If I were involved in this game on either side, I would have been pissed off. I don't think I could have purposefully lost, and if I was on the winning team I would be sickened by Santa Clara's actions. It's unsportsmanlike.

mbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 06:47 PM
  #5
mooseOAK*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 42,437
vCash: 500
Situations like this do come up in tournament play quite often but making it that blatant and showing the other team was stupid.

Canada got screwed by the communists in the World Championships one year:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=201046

mooseOAK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 06:51 PM
  #6
AIREAYE
Moderator
 
AIREAYE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: China
Posts: 3,894
vCash: 500
Could be suspended for life? Good, they deserve it. Since when did some AA tournament matter more than moral integrity and honor? I hope these kids feel ashamed of what they did (had to do), and never to carry it over to their lives in the future. Disgusting.

AIREAYE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2011, 10:19 PM
  #7
Ajax02
Sauce.
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Las Vegas
Country: Canada
Posts: 114
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hlrsr View Post
I can't view the video for some reason, but I feel I need to say -

Take the fall! Act hurt! Get indignant!
LOL was totally gonna use that quote when I read the thread title..

Ajax02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 02:38 AM
  #8
SJGoalie32
Registered User
 
SJGoalie32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: TealTown, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,214
vCash: 500
I heard about it and watched the video but I didn't look into it hard enough.

I'm curious to know what the actual benefit was. Was it really just to force another opponent to play a tougher team? And if so, why?

I actually had a similar interesting situation last year in rec league.

Had a game one week against the team we were going to play in the playoffs the following week. 6 teams in, top 2 get byes, other teams play each other. We were guaranteed to play them no matter what. All other teams had finished their regular seasons, we were the last teams playing in the final game. If we won or tied the game, we would have finished in 3rd, they would finish in 6th and we play them the following week. If we lost, we would drop to 4th, they'd move up to 5th, and we'd still play them (and the other matchup would be the same, too).

The ONLY difference was that the 3v6 game was at a time slot that I couldn't make (playoff game for another team), and I could make the 4v5 time slot. So it was in my interest to lose the game. Nobody else would be affected, nothing would change for the matchups, only the time slots and maybe second round opponents.

I thought about it.....I thought about throwing the game, I thought about skipping the game. In the end, I decided against it and to just play it straight up. Sure enough, we won the game, ended up as the 3rd seed, I couldn't play the following week in the playoffs, the sub goalie for the playoff game was inadequate, and we lost.

SJGoalie32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 02:47 AM
  #9
JustinW
Registered User
 
JustinW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 847
vCash: 500

JustinW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 05:40 AM
  #10
Gino 14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 812
vCash: 500
The coaches are a disgrace and the kids and parents aren't far behind. It's just a sad commentary of what people and sports are about.

Gino 14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 08:28 AM
  #11
Thresh
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 89
vCash: 500
I'd have to agree with mbeam that it's a problem with tournament structure foremost, but it doesn't defend what they did.

Having said that, if Santa Clara were smart about it they could have atleast made their loss look real in order to prevent controversy and aggrevating everyone in the stands that had come to watch the game. Just simply taking shots on breakaways and actually attempting to save shots would have been less suspicious, but yeah, i'm not trying to give them tips for the future, haha.

Regardless, if they were just trying to give their opponent a tougher opponent but knew it wouldn't affect themselves, then it's just wrong. And no matter what, the whole display was unsportsman-like.

Thresh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 08:35 AM
  #12
nesford2457
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 118
vCash: 500
I just don't get why they had to be so blatant about it. All you need is for the goalie to have an "off" night and you could have ended up with the same result.

nesford2457 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 09:54 AM
  #13
Steelhead16
Registered User
 
Steelhead16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boise, ID
Country: United States
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
My team had a similar situation this year at a high school tournament. 2 pools, top 2 in each pool play in the semi finals. Fri. Sat. Sun. tourney. Most teams played 2 games on Fri. but we only had one which we won. So we played at 8:00 on Sat. and won that game which guaranteed us top 2 in our pool. We had to play our last pool game against a team that hadn't won a game and was not going to be in the semi finals at 4:30 and then the semi-final game at 6:00.

I didn't want our kids to burn out playing a meaningless game so we played at about half speed. I debated not showing up for the game but we decided to just take it easy. We did ice the puck alot and didn't try very hard but we still won 2-0.

Even playing at half speed still tapped our kids and having the semi-final be the third game of the day was too much and we got hammered by a team we had already beaten. In hindsite I should have forfeited the game and just played the semi. Just laying down is a terrible thing to have kids do and is disrespectful to the other team. But tournament formats and tie breakers force this kind of thing. It sucks but it's reality in the "win at all cost" attitude that people seem to have towards their kids sports.

Steelhead16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 10:09 AM
  #14
Dave Karp
Registered User
 
Dave Karp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kingston, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,710
vCash: 500
Terrible display from the coaches. It's one thing to not play your best players in the third or giving younger less skilled guys ice time. But to blatantly throw a game so that you, your team, and the observers all know you are trying to do so is pretty bad. Who cares if they get a tougher schedule? It was poor sportsmanship towards the other team. I give them full credit for continuing to play and eventually doing what the other team wanted them to do: win by 4 or more.

Love the Mighty Ducks reference. I wanted to say it but too late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelhead16 View Post
Even playing at half speed still tapped our kids and having the semi-final be the third game of the day was too much and we got hammered by a team we had already beaten. In hindsite I should have forfeited the game and just played the semi. Just laying down is a terrible thing to have kids do and is disrespectful to the other team. But tournament formats and tie breakers force this kind of thing. It sucks but it's reality in the "win at all cost" attitude that people seem to have towards their kids sports.
Aren't you perpetuating that sentiment by playing half-speed to begin with? There is nothing wrong with resting your star players and to not try to get rocked and injured but to make a decision to play lower than your capabilities for a whole game in attempt to be able to win the next game seems like trying to win at all costs.

Dave Karp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 10:13 AM
  #15
Fleuryoutside29
Registered User
 
Fleuryoutside29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 583
vCash: 500
I have to agree that its a problem with the structure of the tournament. While what the coaches did was not morally or ethically correct, they were just exploiting a loophole in the system.

Fleuryoutside29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 12:21 PM
  #16
Steelhead16
Registered User
 
Steelhead16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Boise, ID
Country: United States
Posts: 1,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Karp View Post
Aren't you perpetuating that sentiment by playing half-speed to begin with? There is nothing wrong with resting your star players and to not try to get rocked and injured but to make a decision to play lower than your capabilities for a whole game in attempt to be able to win the next game seems like trying to win at all costs.
I only have 8 kids I can't rest anyone. I was trying to promote survival, not poor sportsmanship. My choices were to forfeit or play at half speed in a meaningless game to maybe have a chance to not get hammered in a game that meant something. We had only 20 mins between games and the team we were playing in the semi-final game played at 9:00am. We played at 8:00am, 4:30pm and 6:00pm.

I wanted the tournament to cancel the meaningless game at 4:30 so we would have an apples for apples game in the semi-final. They wouldn't and we ran out of gas after the first period and got hammered.

Steelhead16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 01:22 PM
  #17
ean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,802
vCash: 500
Wow I'm glad the other team didn't shake hands. That was so lame.

ean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 01:46 PM
  #18
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 36,303
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbeam View Post
I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's a shame when this happens but all they're doing is ensuring themselves the best chance in the tournament, which I think is more a problem with tournament structure than disrespectful coaching.
I completely disagree. Regardless of the tournament structure, it's the coach's responsibility to BE A COACH, not a game-fixer. These kids and parents are putting a lot of time and money into playing this sport, with the expectation that they will develop as players and as people. What does it benefit any of them to loaf around and let the other team score, just to screw over another team?

IMO, the coaches should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. My boys would never pull that jersey on again if their team pulled crap like that.

tarheelhockey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 01:55 PM
  #19
Axxion89
Registered User
 
Axxion89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 310
vCash: 500
Don't hate the player/coach, hate the game

If you don't want this to happen, don't have a tourney structure that offers the chance to do this.

That being said though, I do not condone this with kids that age, you teach them wrong morals.

If this was a mens league lets say and my team hated the other team, you bet I would do this

Axxion89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 02:00 PM
  #20
mbeam
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 335
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I completely disagree. Regardless of the tournament structure, it's the coach's responsibility to BE A COACH, not a game-fixer. These kids and parents are putting a lot of time and money into playing this sport, with the expectation that they will develop as players and as people. What does it benefit any of them to loaf around and let the other team score, just to screw over another team?

IMO, the coaches should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. My boys would never pull that jersey on again if their team pulled crap like that.
...I went on to say how I thought it was wrong too. It's just, that win at all costs mentality forced their hand. Well, not really, it forced them to make an ethical decision and they made the wrong one. I do not condone their actions and I believe they should take some responsibility. But I'd like to see some implementations into regulations and guidelines that would deter coaches from doing this in the future.

In reference to the bolded part: An argument could be made for it being the Coach's job to win at all costs. If that means throwing a game to ensure his team a better chance in the tournament, then one could argue that he's doing his job. (Although this is not my particular take on it.)

mbeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 02:52 PM
  #21
StevenJHyde
Registered User
 
StevenJHyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Point Place, WI
Posts: 15
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to StevenJHyde Send a message via Skype™ to StevenJHyde
I don't know what the SD Gulls playoff standing/differential situation was at the time of the game, but if I had been coaching the Gulls, I definitely would have been tempted to instruct my team to get 2 quick goals then stop shooting after realizing what the hawks were doing, so they couldn't get their way.

But at the same time I wouldn't want to set such a poor example for my players or to stoop down to the hawks' level.

StevenJHyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 03:19 PM
  #22
jwitz04
Registered User
 
jwitz04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 83
vCash: 500
the coaches should be hung

jwitz04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 03:52 PM
  #23
bonnielad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 35
vCash: 500
it's not a tournament in itself - it's for playoff standings.

Still disgusting and unsportsmanlike.

Full info here:

http://www.caha.com/

and here

http://www.scaha.com/

bonnielad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 04:07 PM
  #24
Mr Fahrenheit
Valar Morghulis
 
Mr Fahrenheit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,751
vCash: 500
Oh Jamie Baker

Mr Fahrenheit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2011, 06:17 PM
  #25
ponder
Registered User
 
ponder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,001
vCash: 500
I don't like it and it is definitely against the point of youth sports, but it's not as bad as some people in this thread make it out to be. These aren't 8 year olds, these are 16 year olds playing AA hockey, obviously nobody is gonna make a career out of this but it's definitely very competitive, and I'm sure all the kids really care about the end result. You could argue that teams should give it 100% every game, but it's very common to see teams rest good players and generally put in minimal effort if games at the end of the year are meaningless, this is just a more extreme version of a similar situation. If the coach is otherwise doing a good job with the kids I certainly wouldn't "suspend him for life." Again, these kids are 16 and certainly want to give themselves their best possible chance to win the championship, let's not act like throwing this one game is gonna have much of an effect on their development as people.

ponder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:23 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.