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My Stab at the Top 11

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Old
06-11-2004, 08:56 PM
  #1
Edge
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My Stab at the Top 11

I won't go past that because i think it gets too cloudy and is a waste of time but for a variety of reasons this is my guestimate about the first 11 picks in the draft.

1. Wash. - Ovechkin: Too talented, too much progress and too good to pass up. At this point, he is the best player in the draft.

2. Pitts. - Malkin: Big center is a year younger and has the potential to be better than Ovechkin. He isn't there yet though.

3. Chi. - Barker: Big defensemen who can move the puck and play a complete game are hard to find. Chicago gets a potential cornerstone player.

4. CBS. - Ladd: Came away impressed with him before and they nab the underrated forward from the WHL. Despite what some think, this kid could be VERY good.

5. Pho. - Montoya: Several options they love on the table, but they believe Montoya is their goalie of the future. He's got a huge upside.

6. NYR. - Olesz: The Rangers get a player they liked and hope playing with Jagr pushes him to reach his full potential which could include being the best player in this draft.

7. Fla. - Tukonen: He does everything very well. Florida takes the trade off with goals for a player who could be a solid NHL'er for the next 20 years.

8. Car. - Thelen: The Canes want a young defenseman with a very high upside and they get one here. He's potentially better than Barker, but he's still very raw right now.

9. Ahm. - Stafford: The Ducks go for the hard working and steady winger who they feel could be a nice player to pair with Getzlaf.

10. Atl. - Schremp: With some prime young talent at every position, the Thrashers go with a high risk/ high reward player.

11. LA - Schwarz: Huge upside as a goaltender. The Kings hope he is the franchise goalie they've been seeking for the past 10-plus years.

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06-11-2004, 09:21 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge
I won't go past that because i think it gets too cloudy and is a waste of time but for a variety of reasons this is my guestimate about the first 11 picks in the draft.

1. Wash. - Ovechkin: Too talented, too much progress and too good to pass up. At this point, he is the best player in the draft.

2. Pitts. - Malkin: Big center is a year younger and has the potential to be better than Ovechkin. He isn't there yet though.

3. Chi. - Barker: Big defensemen who can move the puck and play a complete game are hard to find. Chicago gets a potential cornerstone player.

4. CBS. - Ladd: Came away impressed with him before and they nab the underrated forward from the WHL. Despite what some think, this kid could be VERY good.

5. Pho. - Montoya: Several options they love on the table, but they believe Montoya is their goalie of the future. He's got a huge upside.

6. NYR. - Olesz: The Rangers get a player they liked and hope playing with Jagr pushes him to reach his full potential which could include being the best player in this draft.

7. Fla. - Tukonen: He does everything very well. Florida takes the trade off with goals for a player who could be a solid NHL'er for the next 20 years.

8. Car. - Thelen: The Canes want a young defenseman with a very high upside and they get one here. He's potentially better than Barker, but he's still very raw right now.

9. Ahm. - Stafford: The Ducks go for the hard working and steady winger who they feel could be a nice player to pair with Getzlaf.

10. Atl. - Schremp: With some prime young talent at every position, the Thrashers go with a high risk/ high reward player.

11. LA - Schwarz: Huge upside as a goaltender. The Kings hope he is the franchise goalie they've been seeking for the past 10-plus years.
Nice!!! But, how do the Rangers go about getting the pick to get Thelen after Olesz? Could Keenan be open to a Bobby Holik deal? Florida is reportedly sniffing around Guerin, so money may not be an issue (although, I'm sure the Rangers would have to kick in some cash). Maybe Holik and a 2nd round pick for the #7 and someone like Huselius or Shvidki, perhaps?

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06-11-2004, 09:35 PM
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I doubt it. If the Rangers are moving, their moving into the the teens not the top ten.

Though I'm sure they'd sniff around if someone was willing to move a top ten pick.

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06-11-2004, 09:40 PM
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anyone have any idea of what the rangers think of Schremp?

i'd love to see them move up for him

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06-11-2004, 09:48 PM
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From what I know they are pretty much with most people in the "i might consider him, but i'd rather take someone else" mold.

A team like Atlanta who has Heatly, Kovalchuk, Coburn and others in place can afford a little wiggle room. A team like the Rangers can't.

And early reports indicate many teams that were on the fence about him just about jumped off after the playoffs and some of his interviews.

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06-11-2004, 10:10 PM
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Possible scenario?

6th- thelen

move up to 12-15th- radulov (if he falls that far)

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06-11-2004, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge

5. Pho. - Montoya: Several options they love on the table, but they believe Montoya is their goalie of the future. He's got a huge upside.

You really think he's that much better than LeNeveu??

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06-11-2004, 11:58 PM
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I was never much a fan of Leneveu...at least when he was at Cornell, always thought it was so much more the system the big red played than his goaltending...at least insomuch as he wasn't tested most nights. Montoya I've probably seen more, and although I think he might be a touch overrated, he certainly appears to me to be a better prospect at this stage than Leneveu...

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06-12-2004, 12:14 AM
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Your keyboard to Gary Bettman's mouth Edge.

Olesz isn't my first choice, but he's damn close.

I'd also add, that I really expect to see Keenan make a move here. He has tons of kids, and No.7 won't do as much for him as a veteran would. Holik would make a lot of sense, but the Rangers will need to eat salary and toss some youth their way.

But interesting to think about . . .

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06-12-2004, 12:26 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantes19
You really think he's that much better than LeNeveu??
I'll be honest with you, I loved the way this kid stayed cool under pressure this season.

Personally I think he is better, but on draft it all depends on if Phx thinks he is better. I think they're going with a goalie and rumblings have him high on their list.

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06-12-2004, 08:33 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
You're on crack if you think the Rangers will draft Olesz if Tukonen is there. Think harder

Dude, the Rangers are really high on Olesz. I would not pick Tukonen over Olesz. Hands of stone, and no scoring touch. I would much rather take my chances on Olesz who the sky is the limit.

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06-12-2004, 09:43 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknownbutfamous
Dude, the Rangers are really high on Olesz. I would not pick Tukonen over Olesz. Hands of stone, and no scoring touch. I would much rather take my chances on Olesz who the sky is the limit.
Thank you! You took the words out of mouth. This guy who posted that crap must not know who Edge is.

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06-12-2004, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
Nice!!! But, how do the Rangers go about getting the pick to get Thelen after Olesz? Could Keenan be open to a Bobby Holik deal? Florida is reportedly sniffing around Guerin, so money may not be an issue (although, I'm sure the Rangers would have to kick in some cash). Maybe Holik and a 2nd round pick for the #7 and someone like Huselius or Shvidki, perhaps?
As True Blue has mentioned it's not necessarily about the money but about the possible salary cap repercussions when you trade for a contract like Holik's.

Do the Panthers have a high salaried player they want to unload with at least a couple of years let on his contract? That would cushion the effect of Holik's salary.
P.S. Nice work, Edge.

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06-12-2004, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
Nice!!! But, how do the Rangers go about getting the pick to get Thelen after Olesz? Could Keenan be open to a Bobby Holik deal? Florida is reportedly sniffing around Guerin, so money may not be an issue (although, I'm sure the Rangers would have to kick in some cash). Maybe Holik and a 2nd round pick for the #7 and someone like Huselius or Shvidki, perhaps?
Wow. I'd be impressed if Sather pulled off that trade. Holik isn't worth Huselius OR Shvidki (because of his salary)... let alone upgrading from the 2nd rounder to the #7 overall.

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06-12-2004, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor
As True Blue has mentioned it's not necessarily about the money but about the possible salary cap repercussions when you trade for a contract like Holik's.

Do the Panthers have a high salaried player they want to unload with at least a couple of years let on his contract? That would cushion the effect of Holik's salary.
P.S. Nice work, Edge.
My point is, if Florida is possibly interested in Guerin, who makes roughly the same as Holik, that would put Holik in play, wouldn't it?

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06-12-2004, 11:11 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
My point is, if Florida is possibly interested in Guerin, who makes roughly the same as Holik, that would put Holik in play, wouldn't it?
If you are thinking that way, then sure. However, I'm betting that until the CBA mess is straightened out, Guerin stays right where he is. NO TEAM is going to trade for a $9m/per player with a hard cap/luxury tax issue hanging over their heads. No matter what it is, having a $9m hit against whatever cap/luxury tax that is in place, is going to disuade lots of teams. Only the Rangers would head into sucy uncertainty, with a $25m hit coming from only 3 players.
Again, all should remember that under whatever system exists in the other major sports, the team holding the contract takes the full hit of the contracts value. So it makes no difference if the Rangers were to eat even $20m of the #27m that are left on Holik's contract. The full value per year is what will count against a cap/luxury tax.
Granted, as some have pointed out, there COULD be a grandfathering in of contracts, but there could also not be.

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06-12-2004, 11:17 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
If you are thinking that way, then sure. However, I'm betting that until the CBA mess is straightened out, Guerin stays right where he is. NO TEAM is going to trade for a $9m/per player with a hard cap/luxury tax issue hanging over their heads. No matter what it is, having a $9m hit against whatever cap/luxury tax that is in place, is going to disuade lots of teams. Only the Rangers would head into sucy uncertainty, with a $25m hit coming from only 3 players.
Again, all should remember that under whatever system exists in the other major sports, the team holding the contract takes the full hit of the contracts value. So it makes no difference if the Rangers were to eat even $20m of the #27m that are left on Holik's contract. The full value per year is what will count against a cap/luxury tax.
Granted, as some have pointed out, there COULD be a grandfathering in of contracts, but there could also not be.
Okay, but Florida is not a team with a high payroll, and therefore MIGHT be willing to take such a hit if the player fits into their program. Holik COULD be such a player. Who does Florida have that makes a lot of money? Jokinen? They dealt off Bure and Kozlov last year. They don't have much in terms of high-priced talent. Sure, Luongo is looking for a raise. But, Florida is stacked with young, inexpensive talent, and especially after the Bolts success, could be looking to take the next step. And, yes, Florida is a team rumored to be willing to move down.

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06-12-2004, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas
My point is, if Florida is possibly interested in Guerin, who makes roughly the same as Holik, that would put Holik in play, wouldn't it?
It would, but I really don't see Florida investing that much of a possible cap (for multiple years left on their respective contracts) on either Guerin or Holik no matter how low their payroll is now.

Can the Rangers or Stars rework these guys contracts now before a possible trade. That is to say, pay them a $10 million bonus (or so) and reduce their annual compensation to a more cap friendly number?

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06-12-2004, 01:58 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
Again. You are smoking something if you think the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. Spare me that load of garbage about hands of stone either. Have I seen him play? No. However, nobody is going 4 in the draft with hands of stone. So stop the stupidity on that argument. The bottom line is Olesz failed miserably last year. No scouts were impressed with him. He's inconsistent. He also didn't have enough common sense to keep his head up when Phaneuf was on the ice and got sent to another planet.

I repeat. There is absolutely no chance the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. No chance. Zero. Zip. Game over. Forget it. Never will happen. End of story.

The Rangers already have 3 one dimensional offensive players in the system. Balej, Dawes and Prucha. They are not taking some dope like Olesz who has "great potential". Please. Didn't you learn your lesson with that clown Kovalev with potential. Or Brendl.

The Rangers are not going to pass up a sure 20-30 goal, 2 way, power wing like Tukonen for a question mark like Olesz. Haven't you paid any attention to our picks the past 4 years. They are drafting players that are sure things in at least one or two departments.

Jessiman has size and passing skills. You can't teach that combo. Blackburn was regarded as a can't miss, clutch goalie. Tjutin was said to be more of a sure NHL prospect then most in the draft. Murray was a very safe NHL prospect.

People thought Jessiman was risky. Please. He's 6'5 and a monster with great hands and a tremendous work ethic. At the worst he will be a "Rucchin type player"
"Have you seen Olesz or Tukonen play" is the question you should be answering. I respect Edge's opinion more than any one else's. He has been doing this for many years. The Rangers are high on Malkin, Olesz, Stafford. And another good point Tukonen is a RW, and would screw the development of Balej and Jessimen. Face it we are taking a center, a LWer, or a defensemen.

And Jessimen was not a safe pick, he is a project, that will take years to complete. He is not a safe pick at all, and is a boom or bust. If he is so good now, why wasn't he on the World Juniors USA team? Jessimen is by far a risky pick.

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06-12-2004, 01:59 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
Again. You are smoking something if you think the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. Spare me that load of garbage about hands of stone either. Have I seen him play? No. However, nobody is going 4 in the draft with hands of stone. So stop the stupidity on that argument. The bottom line is Olesz failed miserably last year. No scouts were impressed with him. He's inconsistent. He also didn't have enough common sense to keep his head up when Phaneuf was on the ice and got sent to another planet.

I repeat. There is absolutely no chance the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. No chance. Zero. Zip. Game over. Forget it. Never will happen. End of story.

The Rangers already have 3 one dimensional offensive players in the system. Balej, Dawes and Prucha. They are not taking some dope like Olesz who has "great potential". Please. Didn't you learn your lesson with that clown Kovalev with potential. Or Brendl.

The Rangers are not going to pass up a sure 20-30 goal, 2 way, power wing like Tukonen for a question mark like Olesz. Haven't you paid any attention to our picks the past 4 years. They are drafting players that are sure things in at least one or two departments.

Jessiman has size and passing skills. You can't teach that combo. Blackburn was regarded as a can't miss, clutch goalie. Tjutin was said to be more of a sure NHL prospect then most in the draft. Murray was a very safe NHL prospect.

People thought Jessiman was risky. Please. He's 6'5 and a monster with great hands and a tremendous work ethic. At the worst he will be a "Rucchin type player"
Thanks for the good laugh.

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Old
06-12-2004, 02:02 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
I repeat. There is absolutely no chance the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. No chance. Zero. Zip. Game over. Forget it. Never will happen. End of story.

Is that you, Mr. Sather?

If not, then :lol

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06-12-2004, 02:10 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
Again. You are smoking something if you think the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. Spare me that load of garbage about hands of stone either. Have I seen him play? No.
Dude, before I get into answering your post, let me ask you a question. As you are a newbie here, why are you so belligerent? Is it necessary to try to pick fights with peopel? Overall, we have a nice little community here. Why come here looking for fights? Are you not capable of having a normal debate without trying to fight everyone? You are what, 15 or 16 years old, judging by your posts? Isn't it possible that some people have more information than you? You want to come here and debate, you are more than welcome. But keep trying to agitate the way you are, and my prediction is that your stay on this board will be a short one.
As for the rest:
Honestly, and no insult is intended, Edge has probably forgotten more about hockey information that you will know in the next decade. You ask the question if any have seen these guys play? Newsflash, the people you are mocking have seen them play more times than you have fingers on your hands. Asking the question if any have seen these guys play is a dangerous thing on this board, as there are PLENTY of people that have see ALL of these prospects play, numerous times. Maybe the question should be, have you?

"I repeat. There is absolutely no chance the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. No chance. Zero. Zip. Game over. Forget it. Never will happen. End of story"

Can someone save the above somewhere? It will be pretty funny to post it again after the reverse happens. IMO, there is no chance of the Rangers taking Tukonen if Olesz is available.

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06-12-2004, 02:14 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Dude, before I get into answering your post, let me ask you a question. As you are a newbie here, why are you so belligerent? Is it necessary to try to pick fights with peopel? Overall, we have a nice little community here. Why come here looking for fights? Are you not capable of having a normal debate without trying to fight everyone? You are what, 15 or 16 years old, judging by your posts? Isn't it possible that some people have more information than you? You want to come here and debate, you are more than welcome. But keep trying to agitate the way you are, and my prediction is that your stay on this board will be a short one.
As for the rest:
Honestly, and no insult is intended, Edge has probably forgotten more about hockey information that you will know in the next decade. You ask the question if any have seen these guys play? Newsflash, the people you are mocking have seen them play more times than you have fingers on your hands. Asking the question if any have seen these guys play is a dangerous thing on this board, as there are PLENTY of people that have see ALL of these prospects play, numerous times. Maybe the question should be, have you?

"I repeat. There is absolutely no chance the Rangers will take Olesz over Tukonen. No chance. Zero. Zip. Game over. Forget it. Never will happen. End of story"

Can someone save the above somewhere? It will be pretty funny to post it again after the reverse happens. IMO, there is no chance of the Rangers taking Tukonen if Olesz is available.
Well done, TB. Besides, he sounds an awful lot a poster that was banned about a month ago for the same type of "approach" to open discussion. I was always originally going to say "when did you change your handle, Prucha73", but Prucha is not that belligerent.

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06-12-2004, 02:25 PM
  #24
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I think both Olesz and Tukonen are very good and neither of them is one dimentional. But I do like Tukonen a bit better. I don't think Olesz's potential is much higher than Tukonen and neither of them has hands of stone. And I really doubt that we take Tukonen.

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06-12-2004, 02:32 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha73
I think both Olesz and Tukonen are very good and neither of them is one dimentional. But I do like Tukonen a bit better. I don't think Olesz's potential is much higher than Tukonen and neither of them has hands of stone. And I really doubt that we take Tukonen.
What I will say is this - if Tukonen ended up a Ranger, it hardly be the worst thing. For all we know, the Rangers could be providing the biggest smokescreen. However, from most sources I've read, and the info provided by, among others, Edge, Tukonen does appear to be on the Rangers' radar screen.

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