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Old
11-05-2010, 04:11 PM
  #101
VanEric
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I can see how frustrating this is going to get already. Schneider's played 3 games. Two of those games were against teams who didn't show up and got blown out. The last one was his toughest test yet it wasn't really that big of a test. Comparing it to Luongo's game in Edmonton is ridiculous given the defensive breakdowns in that game when the Canucks went up 3-0. They corrected those mistakes for Thursday and really only had one or two breakdowns all game. 1 resulted in a great save by Schneider and 1 in a goal.

Luongo has already stolen this team points which it probably did not deserve on three separate occasions. Yet he's just 'ok' and the guy who has no pressure and took six years to get to the NHL has 3 good games against less than stellar opposition and he's the next Patrick Roy.

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11-05-2010, 04:19 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
Luongo has already stolen this team points which it probably did not deserve on three separate occasions. Yet he's just 'ok' and the guy who has no pressure and took six years to get to the NHL has 3 good games against less than stellar opposition and he's the next Patrick Roy.
While I concur with the impetus of your post, I think the bolded quote is a little miss-guided. People are mistakeing proper development for stalled development. Nothing wrong with a high school goalie taking 6 years to crack the NHL full time. In fact it's probably ideal. Don't see how coming into a Canadian market to back-up their franchise player after being a 1st round pick is "no pressure" either.

Point is, there is nothing to be discouraged about with regard to Schneider's development, he has come along well. But you're right, comparing him to Luongo is assinine. Luongo has been among the better starters in the game for a decade or so. Schneider has barely scratched 10 games at the NHL level.

You're right though, every little turn between these two is going to set off a chain-over-reaction around here.

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11-05-2010, 04:25 PM
  #103
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He certainly doesn't have a fraction of the pressure on Luongo. If Schneider doesn't play well, he's just a young backup. If Luongo doesn't play lights out and even if the team wins, some fans want to run him out of town.

Schneider having a slow development curve is fine but much like his slow development showed patience, people need to calm the **** down on the hype now based on 3 NHL starts this year. It took him six years to get here, let's not crown him after 3 games or in turn, label him a failure if he has 3 lousy games.

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11-05-2010, 04:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
I can see how frustrating this is going to get already. Schneider's played 3 games. Two of those games were against teams who didn't show up and got blown out. The last one was his toughest test yet it wasn't really that big of a test. Comparing it to Luongo's game in Edmonton is ridiculous given the defensive breakdowns in that game when the Canucks went up 3-0. They corrected those mistakes for Thursday and really only had one or two breakdowns all game. 1 resulted in a great save by Schneider and 1 in a goal.

Luongo has already stolen this team points which it probably did not deserve on three separate occasions. Yet he's just 'ok' and the guy who has no pressure and took six years to get to the NHL has 3 good games against less than stellar opposition and he's the next Patrick Roy.
Colorado is less than stellar opposition? What about edmonton and new jersey?

New Jersey was probably the worst team we have faced this year, and luongo got the start there.

Luongo has looked great in some games and average in other ones, while schneider has looked great in all of his games( only 3)

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11-05-2010, 04:28 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Colorado is less than stellar opposition? What about edmonton and new jersey?

New Jersey was probably the worst team we have faced this year, and luongo got the start there.

Luongo has looked great in some games and average in other ones, while schneider has looked great in all of his games.
Schneider's played 3 games. He's looked good in 3 games. Luongo's also had 3 good games this season. If you want to go by such a small sample size.

Do you think Colorado played hard last night at all? Their best player got benched in the second period.

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11-05-2010, 04:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
Schneider's played 3 games. He's looked good in 3 games. Luongo's also had 3 good games this season. If you want to go by such a small sample size.

Do you think Colorado played hard last night at all? Their best player got benched in the second period.
It is a small sample size, so what? Its not like I'm looking at it and saying schneider is a better goalie and we should dump luongo now.

I'm just analyzing what i have seen. Schneider has looked great in all of his games and luongo hasn't.

If we need to wait for a better sample size, how bout we all wait until december and come back to these discussions boards?

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11-05-2010, 04:34 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
He certainly doesn't have a fraction of the pressure on Luongo. If Schneider doesn't play well, he's just a young backup. If Luongo doesn't play lights out and even if the team wins, some fans want to run him out of town.

Schneider having a slow development curve is fine but much like his slow development showed patience, people need to calm the **** down on the hype now based on 3 NHL starts this year. It took him six years to get here, let's not crown him after 3 games or in turn, label him a failure if he has 3 lousy games.
So you are saying Luongo cannot handle the pressure Really though if outside pressure to affecting how Luongo handles the puck, how he handles traffic in front of the net we are in more trouble than i thought. I watched both games, Edmonton's pressure came after scoring two so so goals. You do not think if Duchene scored on his chance when it was 1-0 the game would have been different. That was a better opportunity than Edmonton had in the first two periods. I agree with your agruements that it is too early proclaim Schneider's greatness but to state he has been playing great is not an overstatement.

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11-05-2010, 04:59 PM
  #108
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Another point this is a Cory Schneider thread. So when he plays well people are going to say good things about him. It his hard to be critical of him after these three games, if that upsets Luongo's fans so be it. I am a fan of Luongo as well i hope he keeps playing well. Not well like he did against Edmonton but well like he did against Florida when he won that game for the Canucks. He has high expectations but the pressure on him is no greater once the game starts than it is for any other goalie C. Schneider included. I think Schneider knows if he does not play very well he is not going to play much at all. If he does not get to play that will cost him alot of money in the future. Luongo is on a 12 multi million dollar contract and as you pointed out has a no trade clause. Who has more pressure? The pressure arguement is a cop out. Schneider has showed poise, positioning, and some puck skills as well. Luongo is number one and will continue to be number one but Schneider play has been encouraging.

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11-05-2010, 05:08 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
I can see how frustrating this is going to get already. Schneider's played 3 games. Two of those games were against teams who didn't show up and got blown out. The last one was his toughest test yet it wasn't really that big of a test. Comparing it to Luongo's game in Edmonton is ridiculous given the defensive breakdowns in that game when the Canucks went up 3-0. They corrected those mistakes for Thursday and really only had one or two breakdowns all game. 1 resulted in a great save by Schneider and 1 in a goal.

Luongo has already stolen this team points which it probably did not deserve on three separate occasions. Yet he's just 'ok' and the guy who has no pressure and took six years to get to the NHL has 3 good games against less than stellar opposition and he's the next Patrick Roy.
I agree with you 100%, which is only barely higher than Schneider's save %

I was almost relieved when the 3-1 goal went in so that I would have less detritus to skim through on these forums today. That's how annoying the anti-Luongo cabal of irrationalistas has become.

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11-05-2010, 05:21 PM
  #110
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I agree with you 100%, which is only barely higher than Schneider's save %

I was almost relieved when the 3-1 goal went in so that I would have less detritus to skim through on these forums today. That's how annoying the anti-Luongo cabal of irrationalistas has become.
Yes, complimenting Schneider is obviously anti Luongo. Comparing Schneider in any positive way to the great Luongo is akin to treason here. Does everyone have to suck up to Luongo before they can talk about Schneider. Ok here i go i do not in anyway believe Luongo was to blame for Vancouver losing to Chicago the last two playoffs. Vancouver last year lost to a much better team. Luongo in game 6 in Vancouver played a great first period to keep Vancouver in the game. In spite of this Vancouver still lost. Now that the thought police have been satisfied, i would like to state i like the way Schneider has been playing.

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11-05-2010, 05:44 PM
  #111
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Damnit if only we had started Schnieder for all 12 games we would be 12-0-0 right now!

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11-05-2010, 06:01 PM
  #112
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Article in the Vancouver Sun today - The Arrival of Vancouver Canucks Cory Schneider
http://communities.canada.com/vancou...schneider.aspx

And a Jason Botchford piece - Cory Schneider's robo goalie routine is great news for Luongo:
http://communities.canada.com/thepro...or-luongo.aspx


Last edited by Wetcoaster: 11-05-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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11-05-2010, 06:17 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
Yes, complimenting Schneider is obviously anti Luongo. Comparing Schneider in any positive way to the great Luongo is akin to treason here. Does everyone have to suck up to Luongo before they can talk about Schneider. Ok here i go i do not in anyway believe Luongo was to blame for Vancouver losing to Chicago the last two playoffs. Vancouver last year lost to a much better team. Luongo in game 6 in Vancouver played a great first period to keep Vancouver in the game. In spite of this Vancouver still lost. Now that the thought police have been satisfied, i would like to state i like the way Schneider has been playing.
Yes, you nailed my position perfectly. I don't need to post ever again.

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11-05-2010, 06:24 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
He certainly doesn't have a fraction of the pressure on Luongo. If Schneider doesn't play well, he's just a young backup. If Luongo doesn't play lights out and even if the team wins, some fans want to run him out of town.

Schneider having a slow development curve is fine but much like his slow development showed patience, people need to calm the **** down on the hype now based on 3 NHL starts this year. It took him six years to get here, let's not crown him after 3 games or in turn, label him a failure if he has 3 lousy games.
Lu has to play well. Lu and the Nucks are married to one another for the next 8/9 years. If Lu fails to deliver, there's basically no way the Canucks can change their goaltending situation.

As for Schneider's development, would playing him in the 13 starts that Raycroft got last season, along with his 1 start have done Cory any good last season? Young goalies need to play a lot. Only this year has the Nucks brass made the conscious decision to play the backup in 20 games.

AV had rode Lu for as much as he could the past 4 seasons. If that was the plan last year, then it made no sense to play Cory as the backup. Would be like keeping Hodgson around here as the #4 center. Doesn't do much for his development if you want him to be a scorer. You don't play a 23 year old in 13 starts if you want him to develop into a #1 goalie some day.

Wouldn't make sense for the Kings to play Bernier as the backup this year if they play Quick in the same number of games they did last season.

Once a team views that their young goalie prospect is ready for NHL action, they have to make the commitment to give the guy some starts and not sit him on the bench for 3 week stretches.

In reality, there is not competition for the Nuck's goalie position. If Lu gets outplayed by Schneider, what kind of value would he have given the length of his contract? Schneider will be the guy to get moved.

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11-05-2010, 06:31 PM
  #115
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The best situation is to use Schneider as a backup who plays 20-25 games this year and 25-30 next year. Luongo's 'the man' here long term so its in his best interest to try to give him longevity. Hopefully two seasons from now, Eddie Lack can fill that backup role for 20-25 games. Maybe you wind up losing Schneider for nothing but having him play about 50 games over the next two seasons is worth quite a bit on its own.

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11-05-2010, 06:34 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Winroba View Post
FORWARDS
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Keith Ballard ($4.200m) / Christian Erhoff ($3.100m)
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**** this is sexy

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11-05-2010, 06:38 PM
  #117
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Nucks play a "best behavior" game with the backup in goal. Everyone seems to lift a little harder because they don't have Luongo back there. Not just this year but previous years too. I might be wrong but that is my impression.

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11-05-2010, 07:02 PM
  #118
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Nucks play a "best behavior" game with the backup in goal. Everyone seems to lift a little harder because they don't have Luongo back there. Not just this year but previous years too. I might be wrong but that is my impression.
They do if they have a measure of faith in the backup. They know they have a fair shot at winning if they play well in front of him unlike some backups where you could play really hard and he'd still find a way to let in 3-5 goals.

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11-05-2010, 07:38 PM
  #119
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Tim Thomas has let in 3 goals on 24 shots tonight, so Schneider is soon to be listed on NHL.com as Best in the NHL.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app?component...service=direct

Take that, doubters!

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11-05-2010, 07:45 PM
  #120
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They do if they have a measure of faith in the backup. They know they have a fair shot at winning if they play well in front of him unlike some backups where you could play really hard and he'd still find a way to let in 3-5 goals.
What I meant is the team is more protective of the backup goalie ie less loose, less screw ups.

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11-05-2010, 08:00 PM
  #121
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Luongo is off to an ok start not a great start, Schneider is off to a great start. I think the game vs Colorado and Edmonton were very similar, in one the goalie did not let the other team in the game in the other the goalie did. Not the Luongo was bad in that game, if Schneider gave up three to Colorado he would not have been bad either. The difference right now is Schneider is not giving the opposition anything to get going. Luongo of last year was just OK he appears to be just OK this year as well this opens up opportunity for Schneider. Maybe Cory is just on a hot streak or maybe he is really this good i am excited to find out.
This is stupid. The Av's were no where near playing as well as edmonton did against us. Most of the game Schnieder didn't have to do a thing. And the other two games schnieder played were against tired teams.

You are entitled to y our opinion even if you are delusional about what is true.

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11-05-2010, 08:42 PM
  #122
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Schneider won't be traded this season, but might be had in the offseason for a first round pick.

But I think that the Canucks probably intend to keep him for the remainder of his contract. He's a nice piece of insurance. This could change though depending on how Lack progresses.
I would hate to see him go for just picks. I want something tangible in return. What's the point of developing a guy for years only to trade him for another pick and have to repeat the cycle?

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11-06-2010, 09:05 AM
  #123
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This is stupid. The Av's were no where near playing as well as edmonton did against us. Most of the game Schnieder didn't have to do a thing. And the other two games schnieder played were against tired teams.

You are entitled to y our opinion even if you are delusional about what is true.
So you do not believe Schneider has looked better than Luongo this year? You are entitled to your opinion even if you are delusional about what is true. Vancouver scored 3 pp goals against the Avs and dominated the first 10 minutes. The next 50 minutes were even. The save on Duchene when it was 1-0 Vancouver was a game changer. Look at the "chances" that Edmonton scored their first two goals on. A wraparound, and a rebound where Luo opened his legs while trying to grab the puck. If he made these saves they would not have been considered great chances. After these two goals the Oilers lifted their game up. I think Luo has been playing good, i am just saying Schneider has looked better. More poised, more confident. I guess Schneider's other starts were against Minny and Carolina at home were protected starts but he still played well. Even in his mopup of Luongo game in Minny he looked good. Question has Schneider given up a pp goal against this year? I guess these tired inferior teams cannot even get their strenght up to give a good effort of the pp. Or is it because he has handled the puck well, controled rebounds well, and maintained good position in the net?


Last edited by Catamarca Livin: 11-06-2010 at 09:19 AM.
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11-06-2010, 10:40 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
Tim Thomas has let in 3 goals on 24 shots tonight, so Schneider is soon to be listed on NHL.com as Best in the NHL.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app?component...service=direct

Take that, doubters!
If the Wild score at least 1 goal tonight he will be league leader in GAA as well.

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11-06-2010, 12:04 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
So you do not believe Schneider has looked better than Luongo this year? You are entitled to your opinion even if you are delusional about what is true. Vancouver scored 3 pp goals against the Avs and dominated the first 10 minutes. The next 50 minutes were even. The save on Duchene when it was 1-0 Vancouver was a game changer. Look at the "chances" that Edmonton scored their first two goals on. A wraparound, and a rebound where Luo opened his legs while trying to grab the puck. If he made these saves they would not have been considered great chances. After these two goals the Oilers lifted their game up. I think Luo has been playing good, i am just saying Schneider has looked better. More poised, more confident. I guess Schneider's other starts were against Minny and Carolina at home were protected starts but he still played well. Even in his mopup of Luongo game in Minny he looked good. Question has Schneider given up a pp goal against this year? I guess these tired inferior teams cannot even get their strenght up to give a good effort of the pp. Or is it because he has handled the puck well, controled rebounds well, and maintained good position in the net?
I think Schneider has played in the three easiest games the Canucks have had this year -- and I think the fact that the Canucks outscored opponents 13-3 in those games is a pretty clear indicator of that fact. The only possible exception might be the New Jersey game, but Luongo was perfect in that game so it's hardly indicative of Schneider playing better.

Schneider's numbers are gaudy and he's performed well. This is something all Canucks fans should be happy about. However, he hasn't had a game where he's been tasked with outplaying the opposing goaltender in order to keep his team in the game the way Luongo did against Chicago or against LA to start the season.

I think Canucks fans and media everywhere are caught up in this "Luongo has a bad October every year" thing to the point where they're completely ignoring the fact that he had a very solid October this year, with the notable exception of two periods in Minnesota where the entire team was dreadful. Luongo has only started 9 games this year and has a save % of .915, despite those two periods in Minnesota. He has been good-to-great aside from that game.

I don't understand the obsession in this province -- and, by extension, on these forums -- with always trying to create a goaltending controversy. It strikes me as the lowest-common-denominator of hockey analysis: a sort of fall-back position to assume whether there's reason to or not. I fully expect at some point this season after Luongo has had 2 or 3 bad games in a row (which will undoubtedly happen) that we will see a thread here about whether Schneider should start the playoffs.

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