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The next contracts of Josh Gorges and Andrei Markov

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Old
10-30-2010, 01:27 AM
  #1
Horatio Caine
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The next contracts of Josh Gorges and Andrei Markov

So, Giordano just signed an extension with the Flames : http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=542000

5 years, 4,02 per.

«According to Pierre LeBrun of ESPN.com, the new extension is worth $4.02 million per season. Giordano, regarded by some as one of the most underrated blueliners in the League, was due to become an unrestricted free agent next summer.»

Now, I know that Gorges is RFA, but he's underrated as much as Giordano. Will this contract influence Gorges negotiation? 3M maybe for Gorges?

Gauthier has to sign Markov? Is 6M a possibility? Remember the Chara signing. Teams are not waiting to resign their key players.

Will Gorges will be signed before Markov? Is it fair to say that Gauthier is waiting to see if Markov can return to his normal form to propose him a contract? If that, how is the negotiation with Gorges influenced? Do Gauthier has to sign Markov before Gorges because of the status of the players?

After all, maybe Gauthier will wait 'till next year, but I think it could be a big error.

Yes, I have a lot of questions.

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10-30-2010, 01:51 AM
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InglewoodJack
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Markov gets pretty much a blank cheque in my book. Gorges, I'm afraid that he gets the same as Hjalmarsson. I mean, either we over pay him, or we lose him to someone who will. It will be interesting to see what PG does with Josh.

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10-30-2010, 02:29 AM
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Hjalmarsson's contract for Gorges? I don't think so. I hope Gorges will sign for something like 11-12M/4year.

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10-30-2010, 02:38 AM
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Markov can get whatever he wants.
As for Gorges, I wouldn't pay more than 2,5M for a guy not bringing more to the table than he does. He's a 20 minutes guy. When he plays more than this, his defensive game takes a serious hit. Plus, he's RFA, and it's not like we didn't have any depth on D.

With d-men like Kaberle, Ehrhoff, Jovanovski, Pitkanen, Wisniewski, White, Phillips and Hejda available this summer, it would be silly to overpay for an RFA d-man.

4 years, 10M seems reasonable enough to me. If Gorges wants much more than this (in the 3,xM neighborhood), I'd rather keep this money and overpay for a d-man who actually has top-2 upside.

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10-30-2010, 03:28 AM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Caine View Post
So, Giordano just signed an extension with the Flames : http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=542000

5 years, 4,02 per.

«According to Pierre LeBrun of ESPN.com, the new extension is worth $4.02 million per season. Giordano, regarded by some as one of the most underrated blueliners in the League, was due to become an unrestricted free agent next summer.»

Now, I know that Gorges is RFA, but he's underrated as much as Giordano. Will this contract influence Gorges negotiation? 3M maybe for Gorges?

Gauthier has to sign Markov? Is 6M a possibility? Remember the Chara signing. Teams are not waiting to resign their key players.

Will Gorges will be signed before Markov? Is it fair to say that Gauthier is waiting to see if Markov can return to his normal form to propose him a contract? If that, how is the negotiation with Gorges influenced? Do Gauthier has to sign Markov before Gorges because of the status of the players?

After all, maybe Gauthier will wait 'till next year, but I think it could be a big error.

Yes, I have a lot of questions.
If Giordano makes 4.02M/y, he's not underrated anymore. That's a lot of money for him. We're talking about a 500% increase. That's huge considering their limited cap for next year. But that's CGY's problem.

I'm happy if Markov can somehow be signed longterm to about 6-6.5M. As for Gorges, it shouldn't be more than 3M in an ideal world. Gorges is RFA, I don't think it'll be a problem to have him around that price. I'd be extremely surprised if he got around 4M. At that price, he would lose value imo.

The only good thing about these two players is that they really seem to enjoy themselves in Mtl and shouldn't have any professional reasons to leave. So, I don't think negotiations will be that difficult.

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10-30-2010, 03:40 AM
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Clumsyhab
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I'd give:

Markov: 36m/7 years
Gorges: 10m/4 years

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10-30-2010, 03:46 AM
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Six million/ Five years for Markov would be reasonable. I would not be surprised if his cap hit remained the same as the current contract with perhaps a longer term.

As for Gorges, If it was up to me i would sign him at 2.5-3mill/6 years.

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10-30-2010, 04:26 AM
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Kriss E
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I'd give:

Markov: 36m/7 years
Gorges: 10m/4 years
Markov: That's less than what Hammer is currently making.
Gorges: Four years at such a cheap price?..Doubtful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic if they agree to such deals, but I don't think there's any chance this will happen.

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10-30-2010, 04:32 AM
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We all know Markov's agent is Don Meehan, but who's Gorges' agent?

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10-30-2010, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Markov: That's less than what Hammer is currently making.
Gorges: Four years at such a cheap price?..Doubtful.

Don't get me wrong, I'm ecstatic if they agree to such deals, but I don't think there's any chance this will happen.
If Gorges asks for a whole lot more than 3M/year, he can go away. At this price, you better offer up 1,5M more and sign a guy like Ehrhoff or Kaberle.

It's not like Gorges was UFA to being with.

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10-30-2010, 06:31 AM
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I like Gorges, but I tend to agree with TankEller.

While Gorges is a very solid Top 4 D, there's not many dimensions to his overall game (most notably, his offensive contributions are very slim). Factor in that he's a RFA, and there comes a point where draft pick compensation for somebody offer-sheeting him is worth more to us than Gorges himself would be.

I'd probably be willing to go up to $3 million/year for Gorges, but I certainly wouldn't go much farther than that. I would not give him what Calgary just gave Giordano.


As for Markov, I think he'll end up getting a modest raise, and hence getting somewhere between 6 and 7 million/year, unless he runs into another major injury sometime this season.

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10-30-2010, 07:11 AM
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I hate to say this about Markov but I think the Habs should take a lesson from the New England Patriots. That is: once your stars get to be a certain age you need to cut ties with them (and this will happen to Tom Brady eventually), otherwise you end up saddling yourself with a huge contract that could kill your ability to keep some of your younger guys and sign ufa's.

Markov will be 32 this year, coming off a major knee injury. His trajectory isn't exactly pointed up at this point in his career

I know it is the heartless thing to do, but for the long term I feel like signing him for 5 years at 6 million+ is franchise crippling. If you can trade him now/deadline day from a position of strength then I believe you ought to do it as his value might never be higher (after he plays a few games and shows why he is an elite player of course...)

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10-30-2010, 07:45 AM
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If Markov wants to stay as much as it appears he wants, I can see 4 years 24-25 mil(6 to 6.25 hit) or 5 years 29-30 mil(5.8 to 6 mil). as a UFA he can probably get 0.5 mil more than that.

Gorges, I think he should get around 15 mil for 5 years or 18 mil for 6 years...as a UFA again he could possibly get 0.5 more, I beileve he is a RFA...I'd be ecstatic with 16-17 mil for 6 years.

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10-30-2010, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg View Post
I hate to say this about Markov but I think the Habs should take a lesson from the New England Patriots. That is: once your stars get to be a certain age you need to cut ties with them (and this will happen to Tom Brady eventually), otherwise you end up saddling yourself with a huge contract that could kill your ability to keep some of your younger guys and sign ufa's.

Markov will be 32 this year, coming off a major knee injury. His trajectory isn't exactly pointed up at this point in his career

I know it is the heartless thing to do, but for the long term I feel like signing him for 5 years at 6 million+ is franchise crippling. If you can trade him now/deadline day from a position of strength then I believe you ought to do it as his value might never be higher (after he plays a few games and shows why he is an elite player of course...)
For this to happen, Habs would have to be in a losing position comes deadline, i.e. pretty much out of the playoffs. Otherwise, trading Markov a few weeks before the playoffs would be counter-productive. Since Markov was not traded last summer, I don't see how he wouldn't be re-signed.

On the other hand, I don't see a 7-year contract. But no doubt Markov's health will dictate the way the negotiations between Meehan and Gauthier will go. Another injury and we might not be able to sign him before July 1st as the gap between the offer and the demand could be too steep.

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10-30-2010, 08:15 AM
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If you can trade him now/deadline day from a position of strength then I believe you ought to do it as his value might never be higher (after he plays a few games and shows why he is an elite player of course...)
That's what you do if you don't intend to keep a player your team isn't going to make the playoffs. Assuming the Habs are still in a good position to make the playoffs and/or intend to keep Markov, such a move would be retarded.

This is real life, not a video game.

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10-30-2010, 08:19 AM
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bottom line is that the sooner we ink both of them, the better (and cheaper) it will be...

I can see Markov and his agent wanting to wait until he's come back and playing at his regular level before they start talking extension, and perhaps its a need from the teams point as well (to make sure he's fully recovered), but for Gorges, there is no excuse.

Get him signed, long-term, now. 3 years, 4 years, 5 years... and pretty much at the lowest cap hit he'll agree to. Gorges seems to love playing here, so we're likely to get him signed at a reasonable salary as long as we don't go the Gainey route and wait until the season ends to get to work... hopefully Gauthier learned something from that failed approach.

The Giordano signing is a very good one for the flames, but also an example of what happens if you wait to long to act on a talented young player. While Giordano is worth ~4M/season, if the team had found a way to get him extended earlier, or been willing to go for a longer term/higher $ figure on his last deal, they'd have him for another year or two at a smaller cap hit.

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10-30-2010, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg View Post
I hate to say this about Markov but I think the Habs should take a lesson from the New England Patriots. That is: once your stars get to be a certain age you need to cut ties with them (and this will happen to Tom Brady eventually), otherwise you end up saddling yourself with a huge contract that could kill your ability to keep some of your younger guys and sign ufa's.

Markov will be 32 this year, coming off a major knee injury. His trajectory isn't exactly pointed up at this point in his career

I know it is the heartless thing to do, but for the long term I feel like signing him for 5 years at 6 million+ is franchise crippling. If you can trade him now/deadline day from a position of strength then I believe you ought to do it as his value might never be higher (after he plays a few games and shows why he is an elite player of course...)
If you compare Markov to Lidstrom in terms of style and ability, Lidstrom had a productive career well into his late 30's. I think having Subban plus maybe adding another younger top 4 guy next summer(Gill or Hamrlik walks) and controlling Markov's ice time should keep him healthier.

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Old
10-30-2010, 09:18 AM
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In interviews Markov has made it pretty clear he wants to stick around. Maybe he'll leave it to his agent and his agent will suck the Canadiens dry, or maybe he'll tell his agent that he wants to get it done so they don't need to get everything they can out of the Canadiens.

Joe Thornton is a good example of that; when he signed his most recent contract he said that guys used to ask for 12 million a season but now it wouldn't work, it would just hurt the team, and he's right. Montreal is already overpaying several players, so every time a player gets overpayed now it's only going to hurt the team.

All that being said, Markov 6 years 35M, Gorges 5 years 16M

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10-30-2010, 09:27 AM
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Here, I'll give a Sens fans prospective assuming we didn't have Gonchar and Phillips, two guys who are pretty comparable.

Markov- 5yrs 32.5mil
Gorges- 3years 9.6mil

Habs have a whole truckload of salary to work with this upcoming off-season.

Lets say the resign Gorges and Markov at the same, A-Tit at 2yrs 6.8mil (I know he's been great I've been watching a lot of Habs games, but you guys have seen him before this year. He has to earn it more), Pouliot at 1.5, Lapierre Boyd and Pyatt for a combined 2.75... well that leaves you a whole whack of cap space to sign like... 5 players, including backup goalie, bottom 6er, and bottom pairing D. I assume you guys will be looking at a top 4 D?

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10-30-2010, 10:12 AM
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I still think Markov's going to take a paycut and stay, just a hunch.

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10-30-2010, 10:13 AM
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Here, I'll give a Sens fans prospective assuming we didn't have Gonchar and Phillips, two guys who are pretty comparable.

Markov- 5yrs 32.5mil
Gorges- 3years 9.6mil

Habs have a whole truckload of salary to work with this upcoming off-season.

Lets say the resign Gorges and Markov at the same, A-Tit at 2yrs 6.8mil (I know he's been great I've been watching a lot of Habs games, but you guys have seen him before this year. He has to earn it more), Pouliot at 1.5, Lapierre Boyd and Pyatt for a combined 2.75... well that leaves you a whole whack of cap space to sign like... 5 players, including backup goalie, bottom 6er, and bottom pairing D. I assume you guys will be looking at a top 4 D?
Yes a Kaberle/Erhoff etc even hopefully We're stuck with Spacek but with him in our top 4 and signing Kaberle it wouldn't be too bad: Markov Subban Kaberle Spacek

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10-30-2010, 10:22 AM
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I think Markov should recieve around 6 million per year. He could get more for a 2-3 year contract, but he'll sign longterm...

Gorges, I can't really see him get less than 3 million and it's fine. He's one of our most important player. He's great on the ice, but he's also a leader in the locker room. We can't say it isn't important...it's a factor for sure. Gauthier is building a hard working full of leaders...

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10-30-2010, 11:22 AM
  #23
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Yes a Kaberle/Erhoff etc even hopefully We're stuck with Spacek but with him in our top 4 and signing Kaberle it wouldn't be too bad: Markov Subban Kaberle Spacek
I'd like the Habs to look at Pitkanen or Ehrhoff, those guys could really make for a solid top 4. Spacek isn't a great top 4 dman and hes overpaid but he's good enough as a #4.

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10-30-2010, 12:04 PM
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Giordano is not a good measuring stick for Gorges. He had 11 goals last season and was set to become a UFA. I would say Tim Gleason is a good comparison and he makes 2.75 a year.

The problem with giving Gorges around $3 million is that he would be expected to play a Top 4 role after and I'm not sure he would be capable of doing so in an 82 game season.

Markov will be retained quite easily IMO. Two most important factors for a player usually is playing in a city they love and playing for a good team. Montreal fits both factors nicely for him. The only other team that would scare me come free agency is Detroit. With Lidstrom and Modano probably retiring, that frees up over $7 million and a need for a #1 defenceman. I think they go hard after Markov (if he gets to July 1st) and Kaberle.

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10-30-2010, 12:10 PM
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I'd like the Habs to look at Pitkanen or Ehrhoff, those guys could really make for a solid top 4. Spacek isn't a great top 4 dman and hes overpaid but he's good enough as a #4.
Exactly, as a 4th he's okay. An Erhoff/Kaberle/etc would make him look good.

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