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Old
11-02-2010, 10:49 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by static80 View Post
Good afternoon Calgary fans.
Buffalo fan here with a question.

If Buffalo were to center a package with Connolly and Stafford for Iginla, what would need to be added here?
Connolly is at 4.5 mil, UFA at seasons end.
Stafford is at 1.9 mil, RFA at seasons end.

It appears both teams need a shake up.
Is there a workable deal here?
Thanks but no thanks. IF Iginla is mvoed it will be for high draft picks and or blue chip offensive prospects that are proven commodities and NOT expensive players. Moving Iginla would and should scream rebuild.

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Old
11-02-2010, 10:09 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by robmneilson View Post
I would love to see Iginla finish his career as a Flame.

However...I said the same thing about Nieuwendyk, and Fleury and dealing both of them worked out pretty well for us (Corey Millen was AMAZING, right guys?).

If we were out a playoff spot, I wouldn't be too pissed to see big changes made...but I hope it really doesn't come to that.
well nieuwendyk brought iggy to town and fleury brought reg so ya id say it was amazing

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11-02-2010, 10:20 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I am not starting this thread just because the Flames got embarrassed yet again last night. But realistically, although this team is capable of being very good at times, it is still an unknown if they will make the playoffs due in large part to their inconsistency that they continuously show.

If at the trade deadline this team is out of a playoff spot should they blow it up? There have been rumors that LA is interested in Iginla. At the trade deadline players value are at all time highs. Realistically, Calgary could trade Iginla to a team like the Kings and get Brayden Schenn in return and a 1st rounder. Regehr could be dealt to aquire another 1st rounder. That would give the Flames 3 first round picks in next years draft and they could aquire a player like Schenn and possibly more if Regehr was dealt. It would also free up 11 million in salary which would allow the Flames to sign a couple of quality FA's. The team could keep Bouwmeester, Gio, Bourque and Backlund while adding some significant blue chip prospects to build around. In 2-3 years this team would be challenging for the playoffs again and possibly more. If we are out of a playoff spot come deadline time, should the Flames go out and make this move? I would actually be happy to see Iggy have a legimate shot at winning a cup because the chances of him winning one in Calgary are very slim.
the team won 5 of 6 before dropping 2 in a row and now it is blow up time? come on if they win 4 of 6 or have a good month of november who cares. this team is better than what everyone thinks. are they leading cup contenders nope. but get in the playoffs i feel this team could actually do some damage. first with a goalie like kipper anything is possible and i do not buy the notion just because of last year you can have average goalies and be perennial contender. not that the flames have been lately but i would like to see what the team would do with a little more support from us fans. remember when the team came out of the 7 years of no playoffs? we supported them unconditionally. some positive re-enforcement from fans and media might not help. it cant hold leads for them but for f sakes, yes they make alot of money but they are human and it might not hurt. also with success comes higher expectations and that is a great thing but i wish flame nation could just get out and cheer the dome is getting a lil quiet again. Yes they have to give us something to cheer about but also we could just start making some noise threw a rough patch. i am in no way saying coddle them or agree with every move but get back to being great fans and support our team cause **** at least we aint edmonton. GO FLAMES GO !!!!!! they will get out of this and exceed the negative expectations I truly believe that. I aint no casual fan either and i have been quick to the negative too but cmon its a great game and a great city lets help the team achieve the only way we can support. not blind faith but a little less fickle.

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11-03-2010, 12:02 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick9 View Post
the team won 5 of 6 before dropping 2 in a row and now it is blow up time? come on if they win 4 of 6 or have a good month of november who cares. this team is better than what everyone thinks. are they leading cup contenders nope. but get in the playoffs i feel this team could actually do some damage. first with a goalie like kipper anything is possible and i do not buy the notion just because of last year you can have average goalies and be perennial contender. not that the flames have been lately but i would like to see what the team would do with a little more support from us fans. remember when the team came out of the 7 years of no playoffs? we supported them unconditionally. some positive re-enforcement from fans and media might not help. it cant hold leads for them but for f sakes, yes they make alot of money but they are human and it might not hurt. also with success comes higher expectations and that is a great thing but i wish flame nation could just get out and cheer the dome is getting a lil quiet again. Yes they have to give us something to cheer about but also we could just start making some noise threw a rough patch. i am in no way saying coddle them or agree with every move but get back to being great fans and support our team cause **** at least we aint edmonton. GO FLAMES GO !!!!!! they will get out of this and exceed the negative expectations I truly believe that. I aint no casual fan either and i have been quick to the negative too but cmon its a great game and a great city lets help the team achieve the only way we can support. not blind faith but a little less fickle.
First thing (and hopefully for the last time, read the OP). Second, while I appreciate your optimism and that you are a loyal fan, you stated nothing of fact in your post. I am just as big a fan as you are, trust me. And for that reason I want what is best for this team. I do not want there to be another 7 years of them missing the playoffs and have Iggy finish his career here how he started it. IMO, if the Flames miss the playoffs this year then their window to win has officially been closed and a harsh reality needs to be faced and the Flames need to rebuild. While I agree with your "GO FLAMES GO" for this year and I sincerely hope they do get it going like I know I they can and get into the post season. No one knows what will happen and how this season will pan out. This thread is about having a healthy discussion about if the Flames fail to meet their expectations this year, should they rebuild starting at the deadline. My vote if that indeed is the outcome is yes.

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Old
11-04-2010, 03:44 PM
  #55
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Hi. General NHL fan not based in Calgary here. Hypothetically, what would a Flames fan expect in return for Iginla?(realistically of course...no BS). 2 more years at 7m per has to factored in for an outstanding player that will be 36 at the end of his current deal.

I'm thinking 3 pieces: two youngish already good players with potential plus a top prospect/1st round pick. Is that feasible or would a typical Flames fan expect more? TY

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11-04-2010, 04:06 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranch Tooth View Post
Hi. General NHL fan not based in Calgary here. Hypothetically, what would a Flames fan expect in return for Iginla?(realistically of course...no BS). 2 more years at 7m per has to factored in for an outstanding player that will be 36 at the end of his current deal.

I'm thinking 3 pieces: two youngish already good players with potential plus a top prospect/1st round pick. Is that feasible or would a typical Flames fan expect more? TY
I would expect a top prospect, 1st round pick, conditional 1st (on the team he goes to making the finals) and salary dump(s) to make him fit under the cap

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11-04-2010, 05:27 PM
  #57
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We've let MacInnis and Nieuwendyk go, trading Iggy doesn't seem out of order actually. We don't have a big history of keeping franchise leaders around forever.

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11-05-2010, 06:42 PM
  #58
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Semi Rebuild

Does anything else think that it would entirely possible that the Flames can go into a rebuild without gutting their enitre roster and still remain fairly competitive and possibly be considered a contender by the 2012/13 season?

Similar to Lunatink's thread on the main board, lets say the Flames were to do something like this:

Trade Iggy to LA for:
Schenn, a couple of prospects, 1st round pick

Trade Regehr to the Caps for:
Top prospect, 1st Round pick

Trade Sarich to Ducks or Tampa for:
2nd Round pick

Trade Jokinen to Nashville for:
2nd Round pick

Trade Hagman to Pittsburg for:
2-3rd Round pick

Trade Staios to whoever will take him for:
4-6th Round pick

Trade Kotalik to a contender at deadline for:
4th Round pick

That would leave the Flames with Stajan, Backlund, Bourque and Schenn as key players on offence. And we would still have Bouwmeester, Gio and White as the key players on defence. That would then free up roughly $26 million in salary for the Flames. This offseason the Flames could easily go after some quality guys and add about 3-4 forwards to build around. We would also of aquired some quality prospects in the process, not to mention Wahl and Nemisz are not far off. Brodie and Erixon would have a chance to step in on defence next year to fill spots as well. And lastly we would have double the draft choices we currently have and would have some quality help on the way. I look at what Philly did the year they finished last overall and how quickly they turned it around the following year. I think the Flames have some similar assets to be able to do something similar, especially on defence. Through FA and by trading for prospects and picks we get this turned around in a couple of years should this years Flames not meet expectations.

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Old
11-06-2010, 12:58 AM
  #59
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just or ***** and giggles I posted this on the main trade thread a couple days ago...

First and foremost this isn't a panic thread... but I have accepted that the topic of the Flames rebuilding is a popular subject here on HF... so I figure what the hell maybe it can help prevent a million different Flames threads from spawning and taking over the trade board... as for it really happening I'm a bit torn on the subject still... maybe this summer if there is no playoff berth

so here goes nothing... oh and lets just assume all guys are willing to waive their NMC/NTCs

FLAMES FIRESALE!... EVERYONE OVER 30 MUST GO! (as well as all expiring contracts)

who is available...

Conroy, Craig ( 39 ) Center $500,000 - UFA 2011
Role: 4th Line Center & Penalty Killer

Glencross, Curtis ( 27 ) Left Wing $1,200,000 - UFA 2011
Role: 3rd Line Left Wing & Penalty Killer

Hagman, Niklas ( 30 ) Left Wing $3,000,000 - UFA 2012
Role: 2nd Line Left Wing

Iginla, Jarome ( 33 ) Right Wing $7,000,000 - UFA 2013
Role: All-Star Right Wing

Ivanans, Raitis ( 31 ) Left Wing $600,000 - UFA 2012
Role: 4th Line Enforcer

Jokinen, Olli ( 31 ) Center $3,000,000 - UFA 2012
Role: 2nd Line Center

Kiprusoff, Miikka ( 34 ) Goaltender $5,833,333 - UFA 2014
Role: All-Star Goaltender

Kotalik, Ales ( 31 ) Right Wing $3,000,000 - UFA 2012
Role: 3rd Line Winger & Shootout Specialist

Morrison, Brendan ( 35 ) Center $725,000 - UFA 2011
Role: 3rd Line Forward & Penalty Killer

Pardy, Adam ( 26 ) Defenseman $700,000 - UFA 2011
Role: Bottom Pairing Defenseman

Regehr, Robyn ( 30 ) Defenseman $4,020,000 - UFA 2013
Role: #2 Physical Shutdown Defenseman

Sarich, Cory ( 32 ) Defenseman $3,600,000 - UFA 2012
Role: #4 Physical Defenseman

Staios, Steve ( 37 ) Defenseman $2,700,000 - UFA 2011
Role: Bottom Pairing Defenseman

Tanguay, Alex ( 30 ) Left Wing $1,700,000 - UFA 2011
Role: Top 6 Left Wing

White, Ian ( 26 ) Defenseman $2,999,995 - UFA 2011
Role: #4 Puckmoving Defenseman

______________________________________________

My Proposals…
to Bruins - Ian White, Craig Conroy & Tim Erixon
to Flames - Joe Colborne, 2nd in 2011 (Min), 3rd in 2011 (Phx) and a Salary Dump (Ryder or Sturm?)


to Penguins - Niklas Hagman, Alex Tanguay
to Flames - 2nd in 2011, 3rd in 2012, Roster Player(s) (to help offset salary)


to San Jose - Curtis Glencross
to Flames - 3rd in 2011


to Capitals - Robyn Regehr
to Flames - 1st in 2011, Roster Player (to help offset salary)


to Senators - Miikka Kiprusoff, Steve Staios (Salary Dump), Ales Kotalik (Salary Dump)
to Flames - 1st in 2011, Alex Kovalev (Salary Dump), Pascal Leclaire (Salary Dump)


to Canadiens - Jarome Iginla
to Flames - Lars Eller, 1st in 2011, Conditional 1st in 2013 (if Habs reach Cup finals with Iginla), Salary Dump (Hamrlik?)


to Lightning - Cory Sarich
to Flames - 3rd in 2011

to Devils - Olli Jokinen
to Flames - 3rd in 2012, Salary Dump (Rolston or both Langenbrunner and Salvador)

to Contender - Brendan Morrison
to Flames - 4th in 2011

to Whomever - Raitis Ivanans
to Flames - 7th in 2012


to Whomever - Adam Pardy
to Flames - 5th in 2011

_______________________________

these would send the Flames into a full rebuild by loading up on picks and getting some decent prospects... they could also move some of the salary dumps they acquire for even more picks at the deadline (ie. Kovalev, Ryder, Hamrlik, Leclaire)

the Flames would be left with a rebuilding lineup of this for the remainder of the year...

Kovalev - Stajan - Bourque
Moss - Eller - Ryder
Pens Player? - Backlund - Caps Player?
Meyer - Sutter - Jackman

Bouwmeester - Giordano
Salvador - Hamrlik
Mikkelson - Brodie

Leclaire
Karlsson

and the 2011/12 season...

_____ - M. Stajan - R. Bourque
_____ - L. Eller - M. Backlund
D. Moss - J. Colborne - G. Nemisz
S. Meyer - B. Sutter - T. Jackman
J. Armstrong

J. Bouwmeester - M. Giordano
B. Salvador - _____
T. Brodie - B. Mikkelson
M. Pelech

_____
L. Irving


and a ton of picks in the next draft...

2011 - 1st round (4), 2nd round (2), 3rd round (1), 4th round (2), 5th round (2), 6th round (1), 7th round (3)

easily enough to move up significantly if they are not a lottery team

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Old
11-06-2010, 09:25 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Does anything else think that it would entirely possible that the Flames can go into a rebuild without gutting their enitre roster and still remain fairly competitive and possibly be considered a contender by the 2012/13 season?

Similar to Lunatink's thread on the main board, lets say the Flames were to do something like this:

Trade Iggy to LA for:
Schenn, a couple of prospects, 1st round pick

Trade Regehr to the Caps for:
Top prospect, 1st Round pick

Trade Sarich to Ducks or Tampa for:
2nd Round pick

Trade Jokinen to Nashville for:
2nd Round pick

Trade Hagman to Pittsburg for:
2-3rd Round pick

Trade Staios to whoever will take him for:
4-6th Round pick

Trade Kotalik to a contender at deadline for:
4th Round pick

That would leave the Flames with Stajan, Backlund, Bourque and Schenn as key players on offence. And we would still have Bouwmeester, Gio and White as the key players on defence. That would then free up roughly $26 million in salary for the Flames. This offseason the Flames could easily go after some quality guys and add about 3-4 forwards to build around. We would also of aquired some quality prospects in the process, not to mention Wahl and Nemisz are not far off. Brodie and Erixon would have a chance to step in on defence next year to fill spots as well. And lastly we would have double the draft choices we currently have and would have some quality help on the way. I look at what Philly did the year they finished last overall and how quickly they turned it around the following year. I think the Flames have some similar assets to be able to do something similar, especially on defence. Through FA and by trading for prospects and picks we get this turned around in a couple of years should this years Flames not meet expectations.
Well, we could accomplish what you wanted if other team's GM's are stupid enough to do those deals.

But in a cap world, you can't dump bad contracts of underachieving players and expect to get back premium propsects and draft picks. UNless that player is on his last year of his contract.

Kotalik has negative trade value. No one would take him for his contract. And if Iggy goes through another unproductive month, he'll be getting there too, with still 2+ years left on a $7M contract.

And 12 players on Calgary have NTC/NMC (covering about 80% of their payroll) , so good luck in trading lots of guys.

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Old
11-06-2010, 04:02 PM
  #61
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Do you think someone like the Islanders or Florida would go after Iginla? Yes, they are in rebuild mode but I feel like Iginla could help them make that step from being a bottom team to a playoff contender.

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Old
11-06-2010, 04:15 PM
  #62
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Do you think someone like the Islanders or Florida would go after Iginla? Yes, they are in rebuild mode but I feel like Iginla could help them make that step from being a bottom team to a playoff contender.
No, they are 3-4 years away from getting a player like Iggy.

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11-06-2010, 04:55 PM
  #63
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Well, we could accomplish what you wanted if other team's GM's are stupid enough to do those deals.

But in a cap world, you can't dump bad contracts of underachieving players and expect to get back premium propsects and draft picks. UNless that player is on his last year of his contract.

Kotalik has negative trade value. No one would take him for his contract. And if Iggy goes through another unproductive month, he'll be getting there too, with still 2+ years left on a $7M contract.

And 12 players on Calgary have NTC/NMC (covering about 80% of their payroll) , so good luck in trading lots of guys.
You missed the point of my post, which is for the Flames to aquire draft picks. I did not out line particular players coming back our way. Any fan of hockey knows that in the salary cap world money needs to be exchanged if teams are close to the cap, this is common knowledge.

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11-06-2010, 05:03 PM
  #64
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You missed the point of my post, which is for the Flames to aquire draft picks. I did not out line particular players coming back our way. Any fan of hockey knows that in the salary cap world money needs to be exchanged if teams are close to the cap, this is common knowledge.
Then why did you say it would free up $26M in salary cap room if you expected bad salary comimng back?

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11-06-2010, 08:02 PM
  #65
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I don't even know why we gave out all those NTC and NMCs to players that didn't even take big hometown discounts, thats what puzzles me.

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11-07-2010, 01:02 AM
  #66
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I don't even know why we gave out all those NTC and NMCs to players that didn't even take big hometown discounts, thats what puzzles me.
Tanguay took a good discount.

So did Bourque for sure.

Stajan was at a good number.

Jokinen could have found more else where.

Regehr, at the time was an extremely good signing and still is.

Iginla is our captain and was scoring well over a PPG so 7M was a good number.

Kotalik was inherited.

Lanks at the time was a 70pt centre and good centres were no where to be found on the market.

Sarich is probably the bad one (as is the whole contract).

And there is no way you can argue that Kipper isn;t worthy of a NMC.

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11-07-2010, 01:44 AM
  #67
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I don't even know why we gave out all those NTC and NMCs to players that didn't even take big hometown discounts, thats what puzzles me.
every team hands them out like Candy... i mean really Matt ****in Cooke got one

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11-07-2010, 02:41 AM
  #68
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Tanguay took a good discount.

So did Bourque for sure.

Stajan was at a good number.

Jokinen could have found more else where.

Regehr, at the time was an extremely good signing and still is.

Iginla is our captain and was scoring well over a PPG so 7M was a good number.

Kotalik was inherited.

Lanks at the time was a 70pt centre and good centres were no where to be found on the market.

Sarich is probably the bad one (as is the whole contract).

And there is no way you can argue that Kipper isn;t worthy of a NMC.
I would argue Tanguay is on discount because of his poor previous season.
The kipper and Borq ones I think are fine. The ones I'm mostly targeting are...

Everyone else I would argue we didn't need to give NTC or NMCs to because I think they were at par value or not overly big discounts. I mean its in hindsight but NTCs are really restricting this team from changing directions at all.

I mean look howmuch money we have locked into no movement clauses!

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11-07-2010, 03:34 AM
  #69
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I'd be happy if we got a first for Iginla at this point.

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11-07-2010, 10:22 AM
  #70
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Then why did you say it would free up $26M in salary cap room if you expected bad salary comimng back?
Look its a best case scenerio. If the Flames go into rebuild mode, no one knows what they will be able to actually unload and for what return they will be able to get. I was stating that they would able to get approximately 26 million off of their books. I'm sure somewhere along the lines they would have to take "some" salary back. But if you look at all the long list of transactions that occur on trade deadline day, then you would see that there are plenty of teams that trade roster players for draft picks. Teams attempting to load for a Cup run do this all the time. What really matters is that the Flames aquire draft picks if they go into rebuild mode. If they do have to take some salary back, hopefully it would not be for a bad contract signed to multiple remaining years.

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11-07-2010, 11:53 AM
  #71
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I wonder howmany fans are ready for another Young Guns period?

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11-07-2010, 12:49 PM
  #72
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When the Blue Jays traded Halladay it was a loss of a superstar but gave the young starters a chance to step up. Maybe the Flames would get a breath of fresh air too by trading Iggy. And maybe they just need to do a few trades, get a little younger but keep most of their lineup. And make the trades in Dec/Jan instead of trade deadline.

1.Iginla, Morrison, Glencross to Pitt for Staal, Kunitz, Kuehnackl, 2011 1st rounder
2. White, Hagman, Keetley to LA for Moller, Hickey, Zatkoff, 2011 2nd rounder

Kiprusoff, Karlsson/Zatkoff

Bouwmeester/Giordano (new captain)
Regher/Hickey
Mikkleson/Sarich
Pardy

Tanguay/Staal/Kotalik
Bourque/Jokinen/Moller
Kunitz/Backlund/Moss
Meyer/Stajan/Jackman
Conroy/Sutter

Not a full rebuild but a little resetting epsecially to the leadership group. It adds a 1st and 2nd rounder. If still get middling results then look to cut a few more veterans if possible in the offseason.

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Old
11-07-2010, 02:39 PM
  #73
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I wonder howmany fans are ready for another Young Guns period?
Can almost guarantee the majority (as in most, not all) suggesting a full on rebuild never experienced the "young guns" the first time around.

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11-07-2010, 02:54 PM
  #74
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Can almost guarantee the majority (as in most, not all) suggesting a full on rebuild never experienced the "young guns" the first time around.
If the Flames do not handle their current situation the right way this time around and let their current core grow old here it could be another 7 years of missing the post season. The have some assets now that could actually fetch some very good young talent. To let this current group ride out into the sunset in Calgary would be the most detrimental thing to do IMO "if" the Flames cannot pull it together this year.


Last edited by Johnny Hoxville: 11-07-2010 at 03:58 PM.
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11-07-2010, 02:55 PM
  #75
Lunatik*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Can almost guarantee the majority (as in most, not all) suggesting a full on rebuild never experienced the "young guns" the first time around.
very good point... personally i'd be up for a reshuffling to see if it sparks something... maybe a Iggy/Lecavalier type swap

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