Let's also not downplay his play since the playoffs...that's all I'm saying. We can make the same argument about Carter with hot and cold stretches. This is what is bothersome..the double standard.
Again I don't dislike Carter and you do need depth at Center and it's best to let him prove his worth down the middle and not jerk the guy around..but I'm just concerned about overpaying him for what he brings.
Anyway..for all our sake let's hope the both of them rip it up....
What double standard.
Carter has scored 108 goals in the NHL over three years... you want to compare what Carter and Giroux have accomplished and proven in the NHL?
Giroux's career high is 47 pts... and he was -9 doing it.
He's far more effective at center... and I remain adamant that if they're going to put him at wing, it needs to be LW if they want to get full value out of his offensive game.
The biggest thing with Giroux is that they need him to avoid hitting the wall and tanking for a long stretch like he did last year.
I do still think that Carter-Richards weird dynamic can work and hopefully that will help keep Giroux fresher as Carter does some of the defensive work on that line.
Also, Giroux has definitely put on some weight which should help with the wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom
Why is it obvious that he can't keep a 45 goal pace? Seems he has just as much or even more of chance than Carter at this point...but let's see.
With tonight's goal, I'd be Giroux is shooting well over 30%, sorry, but that's just unsustainable. Also, the breakaways will dry up quickly, it's still October and defenses get better pretty quickly.
The biggest thing for me is that Giroux has gone from being an okay forechecker to almost a Crosby-esque (not anywhere close to that level, just another relatively small guy who has good body strength) board player where he can really hold/take the puck and make some plays.
I mean, we have about 5 guys right now (Powe, Betts, Carcillo, Nodl, maybe Wellwood) who could participate in a real killer 4th line.
I'm still not sold of any of them being able to slide into a top-9 role (Wellwood did blow a couple of phenomenal chances tonight), but any time you can find a decent plugger in the 6th round, it's a win.
Carter has scored 108 goals in the NHL over three years... you want to compare what Carter and Giroux have accomplished and proven in the NHL?
Giroux's career high is 47 pts... and he was -9 doing it.
I love how you continue to define the parameters....he's been producing since the playoffs....he obviously hasn't played as many games as Carter given that he was drafted later than him. I mean is it possible he has broken out as a player in this league? Anyway, this circular reasoning is futile..let's see how this goes
All I know is, if Giroux continues to do well, some people here are going to eat lots of crow.
Yes, that army of people that were disparaging Giroux...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Really should be Shelley's neck.
I mean, we have about 5 guys right now (Powe, Betts, Carcillo, Nodl, maybe Wellwood) who could participate in a real killer 4th line.
I'm still not sold of any of them being able to slide into a top-9 role (Wellwood did blow a couple of phenomenal chances tonight), but any time you can find a decent plugger in the 6th round, it's a win.
I saw a lot more from Wellwood in the offensive zone than Nodl has ever shown me... in his first NHL game.
Yes, that army of people that were disparaging Giroux...
Yeah I do have to say, I didn't quite see this coming and I'll have a side of crow if Giroux turns into an All-star, but we did say he'd most likely be a solid 1st liner.
Quote:
I saw a lot more from Wellwood in the offensive zone than Nodl has ever shown me... in his first NHL game.
He does actually have decent hands which is a nice advantage over Nodl. Wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of him.
I love how you continue to define the parameters....he's been producing since the playoffs....he obviously hasn't played as many games as Carter given that he was drafted later than him. I mean is it possible he has broken out as a player in this league? Anyway, this circular reasoning is futile..let's see how this goes
It's not circular reasoning. You accused me of a double standard... when there is no double standard. Prove you can do it before you get credit for being able to do it.
Patrick Sharp is on pace for 88 pts right now, I don't think he's going to pull that off either.
Yes, that army of people that were disparaging Giroux...
I saw a lot more from Wellwood in the offensive zone than Nodl has ever shown me... in his first NHL game.
Dude you have constantly been all over Giroux for the longest time. I am not saying he is an all star player, but you barely say anything positive about him. Now its the other players are dumbasses when they play against him.
Come on Jester. Really? Thye just so happen to be dumbasses when Giroux is on the ice? It's not just Giroux being better then them?
If defenses are consistently giving you *ing breakaways it has everything to do with them being dumbasses and ****ing the bed. I don't care how good you are, you don't get breakaways without the defense *ing up.
Come on Jester. Really? Thye just so happen to be dumbasses when Giroux is on the ice? It's not just Giroux being better then them?
Somebody has made this point about Briere, but we're less than 15 games into the season, I mean, you can't expect teams to be this sloppy in Dec/Jan/Feb/March/April and I do think Giroux thrives a lot on opposition mistakes which isn't a bad thing, but you won't be seeing those mistakes in Game 43.
I think Giroux will have a nice, strong year, but teams aren't going to keep giving Flyers 2 on 1s and breakaways while we're shorthanded.
Dude you have constantly been all over Giroux for the longest time. I am not saying he is an all star player, but you barely say anything positive about him. Now its the other players are dumbasses when they play against him.
We do agree on the Wellwood thing.
Seriously, dude. Go read my posts.
I have consistently said that Claude Giroux would produce right around what Scott Gomez has in his career.
If you think that isn't saying something positive about Giroux, then that's your problem not mine.
He's scoring shorthanded, pp, even strength ..I mean why can't he score at a 46 goal pace?
Listen, I'm the biggest Giroux fanboy out there, but I'll be beyond shocked if he ever scores 46 goals. While he can certainly put the puck in the net, Claude's game is passing and creating. Besides, as Jester and FlyHigh have alluded to, he's shooting at a 30% clip right now, which is both ridiculous and unsustainable. I don't think it's impossible for Claude to break 40 goals, but I'd be lying if I said that wouldn't exceed my expectations when it comes to his goal scoring ability.
Realistically, I expect Claude to be a 30-35G/50-55A player.
If defenses are consistently giving you *ing breakaways it has everything to do with them being dumbasses and ****ing the bed. I don't care how good you are, you don't get breakaways without the defense *ing up.
Just like when you get scored on regularly right? Its what people blame it on Poor defensive clearing. Poor goaltending. Offense not covering their guys. The other team is then considered being dumasses there also.
Because teams figure out that they need to stop being dumbasses when Giroux is on the ice.
Dumb argument. Let me show you why:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
Because teams figure out that they need to stop being dumbasses when Ovechkin is on the ice.
Now, I don't expect Giroux to score 46. I see him score around 30 but he definitely has the potential for going above that. He'll do fine, but you can't just say "people will figure him out" as a reason. Giroux is having success because he is playing good, not because his opponents are playing bad. Giroux is playing fine now, and let's just hope he'll continue with it for a long time.
It's not circular reasoning. You accused me of a double standard... when there is no double standard. Prove you can do it before you get credit for being able to do it.
Patrick Sharp is on pace for 88 pts right now, I don't think he's going to pull that off either.
Ok fair enough and I don't necessarily disagree but then let Carter prove himself in the playoffs....we'll give him a mulligan for last year b/c of the broken feet.
Now, I don't expect Giroux to score 46. I see him score around 30 but he definitely has the potential for going above that. He'll do fine, but you can't just say "people will figure him out" as a reason. Giroux is playing fine now, and let's just hope he'll continue with it for a long time.
The argument you just made is dumb, and let me show you why.
There's a big difference between a guy that can crank missiles from all over the ice (there is no defense for this play, and it's why Carter will always get his as well), and a guy that is toasting goalies one-on-one. A defense can deny odd-man rushes... it cannot effectively nullify a shot that can flat beat a goalie from range.
