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If we don't sign Kovalev...

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06-12-2004, 02:14 PM
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Malakhov
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If we don't sign Kovalev...

Would you like Gainey to go after Pavol Demitra to play on the first line with Koivu? This is a scenario that would please me, IF we can't sign Kovalev of course and can get Demitra for not too much.

Demitra is gonna earn 6 millions next year wich is a lot but it's gonna be the last year of his contract if I remember correctly. I wouldn't mind shelling that kind of money for a one year contract left over, if we lose him afterwards well too bad. I don't think we'd have to give much for him at this point since I'm sure the Blues want to get rid of him.

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06-12-2004, 02:17 PM
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There is no "if we don't sign Kovalev". We've waited for that superstar for years. Now we have it, and we know he likes to play for the team, play well with Saku, etc. Gainey will sign Kovalev, the main reason will be the respect for the fans. I'm telling you.

And you know what? If he doesn't resign and Gainey don't resign any other superstar...I stop being a Habs fan. I'll still be a Koivu fan, a Markov fan, a Ryder fan and a Begin fan, but not a Habs fan.

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06-12-2004, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markov`
And you know what? If he doesn't resign and Gainey don't resign any other superstar...I stop being a Habs fan. I'll still be a Koivu fan, a Markov fan, a Ryder fan and a Begin fan, but not a Habs fan.
Well Demitra would be plenty enough for me if Kovalev doesn't come back.

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06-12-2004, 02:22 PM
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Til the End of Time
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Originally Posted by markov`
Gainey will sign Kovalev, the main reason will be the respect for the fans. I'm telling you.
Gainey shouldn't base his decisions on the fans. He should do what is best for the club. It is the same reason that petition to sign Kovalev was a dumb idea.

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06-12-2004, 02:26 PM
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Are you kidding me?



I will tell you something. If the team don't care about the fans, they will be in big, big trouble. I'm not sure that the Bell Centre will be sold-out if Kovalev is gone.

My point for Demitra: why? Who knows who will happen? Superstars aren't necessary safe. Maybe he won't like Montreal. Or he won't like Saku.

We have our star, we just need to keep it.

If Gainey announces in press conference that he tried to sign Kovy, but he asked like 6.5 millions...then I'll understand.

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06-12-2004, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time
Gainey shouldn't base his decisions on the fans. He should do what is best for the club. It is the same reason that petition to sign Kovalev was a dumb idea.
Exactly. Unless Kovalev decides to take a huge pay cut to sign here, I just don't see him (or anybody else) signing for big money with the Habs until the lockout is resolved. Equally, I don't see the Habs trading for any big-salary players like Demitra. The rhetoric wars are heating up between the NHL and NHLPA again, and I'm increasingly believing that there just won't be much free agent activity this summer. Kovalev could sit for a very long time before anybody offers him a contract.

Gainey knows all this, so I'm sure he's acting accordingly. And the fans are the last thing on the minds of management or players at this time.

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06-12-2004, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markov`
If Gainey announces in press conference that he tried to sign Kovy, but he asked like 6.5 millions...then I'll understand.
Personnally , I wouldn't mind Kovalev @ 6,5 but the fans expectation on him will be hard. 1-week he's gonna be a god the next one he's gonna thrash for all the Pedneault-Tremblay of this world.

When you see McKay @ 2M$, Perreault @ 2,8M$, Dykhuis @ 1,6M$, I dont mind a Kovalev @ 6,500,000$.

At least the fan who pay some tickets in Montreal will have something for their money for once.

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06-12-2004, 02:33 PM
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Equally, I don't see the Habs trading for any big-salary players like Demitra.
Like I said, you could have him for almost nothing so I don't see why not.

Quote:
Personnally , I wouldn't mind Kovalev @ 6,5
6.5 millions for Kovalev? No freaking way. I hope Gainey doesn't offer him more than 4 or 4.5 millions per season and only a short 1-2 years contract with maybe a team option for 1 more year at most.

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06-12-2004, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
6.5 millions for Kovalev? No freaking way. I hope Gainey doesn't offer him more than 4 or 4.5 millions per season and only a short 1-2 years contract with maybe a team option for 1 more year at most.
Is it your money ? Why do you care ?????

Would you like a trio @ 6M$ of Juneau-Dykhuis-Perreault ?

If some people spend 30$ to 200$ for tickets every night ,they are entitle to see some exciting hockey & Kovalev bring that.

I won't sleep very bad because Kovalev got 6,5 instead of 5,5M$

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06-12-2004, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Would you like a trio @ 6M$ of Juneau-Dykhuis-Perreault ?
That was mistakes and I don't want it to happen again.

I'd like to remind you that in 12 season games with the Montreal Canadiens, Kovalev only got 1 goal (empty netter) and 2 assists.

So like Gainey said, who's gonna show up next season, the season Kovalev or the playoffs Kovalev? I wouldn't risk 6.5 millions on it.

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06-12-2004, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
That was mistakes and I don't want it to happen again.

I'd like to remind you that in 12 season games with the Montreal Canadiens, Kovalev only got 1 goal (empty netter) and 2 assists.

So like Gainey said, who's gonna show up next season, the season Kovalev or the playoffs Kovalev? I wouldn't risk 6.5 millions on it.
It's not all about stats, Kovalev was exciting & he brings excitement & when you pay 200$ for 46 games (41 regular + 5 pre-season) , you need something to give you hope.

It's 12 games !!!! & there's a lot of intangibles that can show why he wasn't productive. Claude Julien played him a lot with some players that are not Kovy's caliber.

Like I said, 6,500,000$ I dont care, it's not my money & if they dont sign, the tickets price won't be decreasing anyway & it's gonna be more boring without him @ the Bell.

I dont understand (i'm not pointing you) this fixation over salary, if the Habs got a 40,50,60,70,80M$ budget, we still have to pay the big price to see the game & I better watch a Kovalev @ 6,5M$ than no one else to replace him & pay the same freaking price for my tickets.

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06-12-2004, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
It's not all about stats, Kovalev was exciting & he brings excitement & when you pay 200$ for 46 games (41 regular + 5 pre-season) , you need something to give you hope.

It's 12 games !!!! & there's a lot of intangibles that can show why he wasn't productive. Claude Julien played him a lot with some players that are not Kovy's caliber.

Like I said, 6,500,000$ I dont care, it's not my money & if they dont sign, the tickets price won't be decreasing anyway & it's gonna be more boring without him @ the Bell.

I dont understand (i'm not pointing you) this fixation over salary, if the Habs got a 40,50,60,70,80M$ budget, we still have to pay the big price to see the game & I better watch a Kovalev @ 6,5M$ than no one else to replace him & pay the same freaking price for my tickets.
I agree with you. I would be glad if BG signed Kovalev at around 5.5M-6.5M. That's what a superstar is worth. Just that he is willing to sign in mtl is awsome, why cheap out? And, for all of you who think that Kovalev will sign for 4M in Montréal, you are fooling yourself. kovalev will ask for Theo's kind of money, if not more, since he's a UFA. And if he doesn't get it from MTL, he'll get it from someone else.

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06-12-2004, 04:19 PM
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People like Malakhov don't understand the game, plain and simple. If you make a ridiculous offer to Kovalev, he won't come back even if you make a better offer. The first offer has to be great, if it's too low you're humiliating the player. After what Pierre Gauthier has said about Kovalev, you can't offer something like 4 millions. He said that Kovalev is the kind of player that can give you the extra notch to push the team at another level. And with that, you want to offer him (he's a UFA after all) 4 millions dollars? Where's the diplomacy? That's very unrespectful to offer something that low to Kovalev. You start at 5.25 mil per year and you hope that he will accept in that range (within one million more). They're also looking for 3 years + contracts at this point in their career. They want a little bit more security. And prolly a no-trade clause (with a few teams where you can trade him). That's the way it works, newbie...

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06-12-2004, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
That was mistakes and I don't want it to happen again.

I'd like to remind you that in 12 season games with the Montreal Canadiens, Kovalev only got 1 goal (empty netter) and 2 assists.

So like Gainey said, who's gonna show up next season, the season Kovalev or the playoffs Kovalev? I wouldn't risk 6.5 millions on it.
I wouldn't worry about that too much. The situation was tough for him. He came from a team that has no system and everybody is a superstar. He then went to a team system where every indivual counted and played the trap. Give him some adjustment time... He had never played the trap before and was with a new team. Adjusting to a new team is hard enough, let alone a completely different system. I'd give him some grace period before pointing to those stats. And he did prove that he can play with this system in the playoffs. So why not give him another chance?

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06-12-2004, 04:32 PM
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lf the negociations with kovalev fails, I hope Gainey will sign another legitimate first liner.
If not, I think some overpaid guys could be available for very little on the trade market, specially if there is a salary cap(or luxury taxes) .

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06-12-2004, 04:34 PM
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What happens if they change the length of the season from 82 to 72 games? How will that effect the salaries? Will contracts then be prorated?

For example....we pay Kovalev $6 miilion for an 82 game season and then it becomes 72.

Is it official that seasons will be 72 games long? Starting when? Will it consist of only east vs east and west vs west? Is it only in the rumor phase or is there a set timetable?

How will that effect contracts?

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06-12-2004, 04:46 PM
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Til the End of Time
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax²+bx+c
People like Malakhov don't understand the game, plain and simple. If you make a ridiculous offer to Kovalev, he won't come back even if you make a better offer. The first offer has to be great, if it's too low you're humiliating the player. After what Pierre Gauthier has said about Kovalev, you can't offer something like 4 millions. He said that Kovalev is the kind of player that can give you the extra notch to push the team at another level. And with that, you want to offer him (he's a UFA after all) 4 millions dollars? Where's the diplomacy? That's very unrespectful to offer something that low to Kovalev. You start at 5.25 mil per year and you hope that he will accept in that range (within one million more). They're also looking for 3 years + contracts at this point in their career. They want a little bit more security. And prolly a no-trade clause (with a few teams where you can trade him). That's the way it works, newbie...
It's not disrespectful to offer Kovalev four million dollars. If you were to offer him one million, then I could understand him thinking the Habs aren't taking him seriously and refuse to talk with them any further. But four million is a reasonable first offer. Obviously Kovy and his agent will say they want more, and then Gainey will make a higher offer. It's called negotiating.

There is no reason for the Habs to start things off by offering 5.25 mil. If Kovalev really does want to stay in Montreal, then he should be willing to work things out and not get offended by a low first offer.

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06-12-2004, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
Would you like Gainey to go after Pavol Demitra to play on the first line with Koivu? This is a scenario that would please me, IF we can't sign Kovalev of course and can get Demitra for not too much.

Demitra is gonna earn 6 millions next year wich is a lot but it's gonna be the last year of his contract if I remember correctly. I wouldn't mind shelling that kind of money for a one year contract left over, if we lose him afterwards well too bad. I don't think we'd have to give much for him at this point since I'm sure the Blues want to get rid of him.
No.

With the lock-out, I'm convinced that one of Plekanec, Kastitsyn, Higgins, Hossa and even Perezhogin could take Kovalev spot at the start of the season (assuming it starts in JANUARY)..... didn't the last lockout ended at the end of january?

Anyway, we have these five prospects who should become one day or an other NHL material. Let's keep our money to pay our young squad in 3-4 years

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06-12-2004, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time
It's not disrespectful to offer Kovalev four million dollars. If you were to offer him one million, then I could understand him thinking the Habs aren't taking him seriously and refuse to talk with them any further. But four million is a reasonable first offer. Obviously Kovy and his agent will say they want more, and then Gainey will make a higher offer. It's called negotiating.

There is no reason for the Habs to start things off by offering 5.25 mil. If Kovalev really does want to stay in Montreal, then he should be willing to work things out and not get offended by a low first offer.
Offering 4M is rediculous. When you negociate you have to at least offer something reasonable as your first offer, 4M is not.

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06-12-2004, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
Is it your money ? Why do you care ?????
Would you like a trio @ 6M$ of Juneau-Dykhuis-Perreault ?
If some people spend 30$ to 200$ for tickets every night ,they are entitle to see some exciting hockey & Kovalev bring that.
It's not my money, and at the same time, I would NEVER pay $200 to watch a hockey game. In fact, I don't foresee going to any games in the near future, so whether the tickets are $5 or $500 makes zero difference to me. The price of the ticket does not "entitle" you to anything. Either you pay it or you don't, it's up to you.

That said, I do care how much they pay Kovalev. We're just now escaping from a situation of drastically overpaying some players who didn't work out. It does limit our ability to improve the team, and I believe that the financial constraints the team has to operate within are very real. So I don't feel inclined to blindly enter a situation with a large lengthy contract handed out to a very inconsistent player like Kovalev. Particularly with the prospect of a new CBA looming... a new CBA in which a $6M contract may push us over a league-imposed cap and force us to either cut other key players or to pay out even more money in a luxury-tax scheme (which essentially reduces to cutting players again).

Furthermore, with cost-certainty on the horizon and the probability of seeing the age of unrestricted free agency drop to 28, plus the possibility of having numerous teams not qualify current Group II free agents at "old CBA" salaries, there is every likelihood that there will be a MASSIVE free agent bonanza in the next year or two. Half of the players in the league are poised to become unrestricted free agents. In that situation, as much as I like what Kovalev did in the playoffs for us, I would be forced to consider the possibility that there will be even better players on the market, and the possibility that the pricetag for all players will be dropping drastically as supply exceeds demand.

Therefore, I would not enter into any prematurely pricey agreements with Kovalev at this time. If he wants to sign on the cheap for $4M, maybe that's a worthwhile risk to take. But if he wants $6M, he'll have to wait in line like the rest of the NHL while the CBA gets resolved, and take his chances.

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06-12-2004, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ax²+bx+c
People like Malakhov don't understand the game, plain and simple. If you make a ridiculous offer to Kovalev, he won't come back even if you make a better offer. The first offer has to be great, if it's too low you're humiliating the player. After what Pierre Gauthier has said about Kovalev, you can't offer something like 4 millions. He said that Kovalev is the kind of player that can give you the extra notch to push the team at another level. And with that, you want to offer him (he's a UFA after all) 4 millions dollars? Where's the diplomacy? That's very unrespectful to offer something that low to Kovalev. You start at 5.25 mil per year and you hope that he will accept in that range (within one million more). They're also looking for 3 years + contracts at this point in their career. They want a little bit more security. And prolly a no-trade clause (with a few teams where you can trade him). That's the way it works, newbie...
Before calling others newbies, look at yourself.
Yeah, start offers at 5.25 millions per year when you don't even know how the new CBA will be like, that's brilliant!

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06-12-2004, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Fan
It's not all about stats, Kovalev was exciting & he brings excitement & when you pay 200$ for 46 games (41 regular + 5 pre-season) , you need something to give you hope.

It's 12 games !!!! & there's a lot of intangibles that can show why he wasn't productive. Claude Julien played him a lot with some players that are not Kovy's caliber.

Like I said, 6,500,000$ I dont care, it's not my money & if they dont sign, the tickets price won't be decreasing anyway & it's gonna be more boring without him @ the Bell.

I dont understand (i'm not pointing you) this fixation over salary, if the Habs got a 40,50,60,70,80M$ budget, we still have to pay the big price to see the game & I better watch a Kovalev @ 6,5M$ than no one else to replace him & pay the same freaking price for my tickets.
But it IS your money. Before long those who go to see games live have to pay even more for their tickets. When their payroll hikes up to 60-70-80M, Gillett wil go bankrupt and Habs will become Portland Americans or Tijuana Mexicans soon after.

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06-12-2004, 05:32 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Malakhov
Before calling others newbies, look at yourself.
Yeah, start offers at 5.25 millions per year when you don't even know how the new CBA will be like, that's brilliant!
Well, you missed the point... It's about keeping Kovalev or not. And giving good contract to stars is not really a huge concern. Especially not when it's one of the most spectacular player in the NHL. It's when you give too much money on low-impact players and etc.

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06-12-2004, 05:36 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars
Offering 4M is rediculous. When you negociate you have to at least offer something reasonable as your first offer, 4M is not.

Why wouldn't a 4m$ contract offer be reasonable... Come on, there is only Koivu and brisebois in our team who are paid that much. Theo has a 5.5m$ contract, but he played well in the season before he got it signed. The skills of a player doesn't make him a superstar... It's not because he does some deke in a game that you have to sign him! If you pay him that much then he must contribute offensively or defensively, not just amaze the fans with his moves.

I wonder why you would pay Kovalev, who only recorded 45 points with a bad -9, a salary of 6 millions... These 45 points place him 5th in points in our 2003-2004 team just behind Zednik (50 pts) who has a contract of 1.85 millions a year...

If Bob Gainey was thinking like you, the team's financial status wouldn't be safe at all.

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06-12-2004, 05:41 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Til the End of Time
Gainey shouldn't base his decisions on the fans. He should do what is best for the club. It is the same reason that petition to sign Kovalev was a dumb idea.
Exactly. If BG was to go and listen to every whim of the fans, we would be in a very poor state indeed. We all think we know whats best for the team, when in reality we know very little. If BG had listened to the fans, Brisebois would have been gone for a bag of pucks. His main concern is to ensure the team keeps improving. By improving each season, we have an opportunity to win the cup each year, not a one shot deal like some teams. He also has to be financially responsible, so that if the opportunity comes to add a missing piece via FA or a trade, he can do it without putting the team in the Red and retarding the progression progress.

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