I burst out laughing when for some reason Desbiens was out on a shift with the Sedins in the second period tonight. When he got the puck, he decided to send it back into the defensive zone.
Keep tambo, put him on 2nd line = speed line
1st line sedins and bur
third line torres/manny/sammy
Why would you remove hansen on that third line? That line has been our best so far once hansen was put on that line. Samuelsson doesn't deserve to be ahead of hansen at this point. Samuelsson should be on that fourth line or an healthy scratch with the way he's been playing. He'll definitely get better though since he's our most streaky or inconsistent player.
The other consideration would be to put burrows on the third line, torres on the second and tambellini on the top line because burrows would need time to get his legs in game shape, and it would be beneficial if his defensive game is intact first. Then his offensive game should atleast improve every game, and put him back on the top line once he's very comfortable with his overall game.
So basically I would like to see the lineup tommorrow mentioned above or
Daniel Sedin-Henrik Sedin-Jeff Tambellini
Mason Raymond-Ryan Kesler-Raffi Torres/Sammy
Alex Burrows-Manny Malhotra-Jannik Hansen
Tanner Glass-Peter Schaefer-Mikael Samuelsson/Torres
Last edited by Sayonara77: 11-02-2010 at 01:29 AM.
Why does Desbiens get a free pass? Has he done anything that has jumped out?
He's third on the team in hits with 22. Schaefer has 12, Tambellini has 11 hits. Between Schaefer and Tambellini, I think Tambellini is the one who gets sent down, just because of the roles they are being used in.
I'd keep Tambellini on the roster ahead of any of Desbiens, Schaefer, or Glass.
He gives you far more versatility in what we throw out there, means we don't have a garbage player in our top-9 with 1 injury, and has looked more than competent defensively so far. And is brilliant in shootouts on a team that needs it.
Desbiens and Glass have both been awful so far, and there's no need for two stone-handed players (3 counting Rypien) who have no hockey sense at either end of the rink, will be hard-pressed to score 5 points all season, and are there solely to throw a few hits on the 4th line.
Schaefer has been pretty mediocre at ES (although getting a bit better) and good on the PK. But with Burrows returning, whether he's needed on the PK is up in the air.
Desbiens is basically Lee Goren, only slower and with substantially worse hands. One of the worst players I've ever seen dress regularly for this club.
Tambellini is a much better player than Guillaume Desbiens... Desbiens' skating is pretty damn terrible. But he has "grit" and "heart" and spent time on the Moose so AV will keep him and send Tamby down. Does Tamby have to clear waivers and if so do you guys think he will? His shot is pretty wicked, I'm sure some offensive starved team might take a flyer on him.
Last edited by El Duderino: 11-02-2010 at 02:42 AM.
He's third on the team in hits with 22. Schaefer has 12, Tambellini has 11 hits. Between Schaefer and Tambellini, I think Tambellini is the one who gets sent down, just because of the roles they are being used in.
Do you think his hits have made an impact? If he was a gritty player who was quick on the forecheck and created havoc in front of the goalie, I would have no problems with his lack of offensive skills.
I agree that Desbiens should be the one who's sent down. He tries hard, but his lack of speed makes it hard for him to go in and be effective on the forecheck, which is what that 4th line needs to do. Also I noticed how he's been getting knocked off the puck a lot along the boards in the attacking zone, even though he's a big guy.
Generally he hasn't really shown he can contribute to a successful cycle game, something that his linemate Glass has shown he can do to some degree. And he's certainly not going to score off the rush, so his repertoire is pretty limited in that area. He doesn't play PK minutes too, which is another reason why I would keep Schaefer over him. Toughness is an attribute that a lot of us want on the 4th line, but I don't want it to be totally devoid of skill - otherwise we will just see a repeat of last year's 4th line, and also why letting Morrison go was a mistake - and Schaefer at least has more of this than Desbiens.
What I like about Tambelleni is that he's a feisty little guy. The hits he throws have more impact than the ones Desbiens throws, just because the speed he comes in at. Plus, he's fast, can skate and can shoot. I'd gladly negate the two useless fights Desbiens been in and slot Tambellini in at the exact same role. Tambellini would be better at it just because he can skate fast enough to get in on the forecheck and actually has hockey sense.
A thing I'd like to mention: Schaefer still hasn't been played in his natural left wing position. I don't think it'd be THAT big of a difference, but the fact that he's been played almost as much at center as wing, wing on the 3rd and 2nd lines no less, makes it hard to expect miracles from the guy.
Really, if Desbiens, who really brings little to the table other than being a Mike Brown look-a-like, isn't sent down, it would just show AV's incompetence at understanding certain facets of the game and how to adjust when something is very clearly not working. A fourth line of Glass - Tambellini - Schaefer probably has a better shot of doing something, anything, than one with Desbiens on it.
Desbiens is basically Lee Goren, only slower and with substantially worse hands. One of the worst players I've ever seen dress regularly for this club.
Oh the memories...
I don't know why it has to be between Tambellini and Schaefer. To me, Desbiens should be sent down as soon as humanly possible. With a fully healthy lineup our forwards should look like this:
Now for the next game I would keep Tambellini in the top 6, put Burrows in there as the other top-6 RW and drop Samuelsson down to the 4th line in place of Desbiens. I'd rather have Tambellini on a scoring line right now than Samuelsson. Then see how things play out in the next game or 2. Whether Burrows goes right in with the Sedins or starts off with Kesler is up in the air for me.
I know Vigneault wants a tough, physical 4th line, but what can they accomplish physically when they spend their whole shift chasing the puck around in their own zone? A 4th line with 2 anchors like Glass and Desbiens is never going to be effective because they aren't good enough to even advance the puck into the offensive zone and get in on the forecheck. And they can't do much on the forecheck anyway because they're too slow! I'm sorry but Desbiens taking a defenseman into the boards after he's already moved the puck and started a rush the other way doesn't help us.
What I like about Tambelleni is that he's a feisty little guy. The hits he throws have more impact than the ones Desbiens throws, just because the speed he comes in at. Plus, he's fast, can skate and can shoot. I'd gladly negate the two useless fights Desbiens been in and slot Tambellini in at the exact same role. Tambellini would be better at it just because he can skate fast enough to get in on the forecheck and actually has hockey sense.
A thing I'd like to mention: Schaefer still hasn't been played in his natural left wing position. I don't think it'd be THAT big of a difference, but the fact that he's been played almost as much at center as wing, wing on the 3rd and 2nd lines no less, makes it hard to expect miracles from the guy.
Really, if Desbiens, who really brings little to the table other than being a Mike Brown look-a-like, isn't sent down it would just show AV's incompetence at understanding certain facets of the game and how to adjust when something is very clearly not working.
Moreover, it's just common sense.
There are 9 'important' forward positions on the top 3 lines, and 3 spots that don't really matter all that much.
Why on earth would you carry 5 guys on the roster who can only skate in those 3 non-important spots and nowhere else, but not carry a single backup skater who can slot into the 9 'important' spots?
Keeping Desbiens over Tambellini is the sort of dumb decision making that all of a sudden sees Tanner Glass in the top-9 and Jannik Hansen in the top-6 again as soon as we have one guy who gets the flu or blocks a shot with his foot. And we've seen what a disaster that is.
It's just logic in putting together a squad that your 'spare' skater should be a guy who can patch holes in your top-9 if he's inserted into the lineup, not another in an endless parade of no-talent 4th liners.
That said, I'm fully expecting Tambellini to go down tomorrow, because that would be exactly in line with how Vigneault has built his roster here.
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As for Desbiens, agreed completely.
Good forechecking hits are the kind where the forechecker is right on top of the play, forcing the opposing defender, making him hear footsteps and make a less-than-optimal play. Hansen has thrown a ton of these sorts of hits this year, and Glass did last year.
Desbiens' hits all seem to be late, non-event rubouts along the side boards. He can't skate fast enough to get in on the play quickly and force plays. While he might 'statistically' be doing well in the hit column, the hits he's throwing aren't really doing anything to help the team.
And outside of hitting, he brings absolutely nothing. He's painfully slow, untalented, not a good defensive player, can't PK.
Glass is at least a good skater who is solid defensively and can pick up a bit of PK icetime.
Why would you remove hansen on that third line? That line has been our best so far once hansen was put on that line. Samuelsson doesn't deserve to be ahead of hansen at this point. Samuelsson should be on that fourth line or an healthy scratch with the way he's been playing. He'll definitely get better though since he's our most streaky or inconsistent player.
The other consideration would be to put burrows on the third line, torres on the second and tambellini on the top line because burrows would need time to get his legs in game shape, and it would be beneficial if his defensive game is intact first. Then his offensive game should atleast improve every game, and put him back on the top line once he's very comfortable with his overall game.
So basically I would like to see the lineup tommorrow mentioned above or
Daniel Sedin-Henrik Sedin-Jeff Tambellini
Mason Raymond-Ryan Kesler-Raffi Torres/Sammy
Alex Burrows-Manny Malhotra-Jannik Hansen
Tanner Glass-Peter Schaefer-Mikael Samuelsson/Torres
Hansen is doing well on the third line. His game would benefit the fourth line, too. I think Samuelsson's ability to get the shot off would benefit the surprising offence generated by Malhotra and Torres.
I think the fourth line is a disaster. Still no center. Glass doing all the fighting, which is dangerous, he catches as many as he throws. Sheafer was brought in to substitute anywhere in the line-up, but has slipped to the fourth line. The next step for him might be Manitoba. Desbiens seems like an AHLer, too.
A fourth line of Glass, Rypien and Hansen might work, except Glass and Rypien are not very durable. I am thinking there aren't enough fourth line options for a traditional fourth line. Since the line isn't getting a lot of minutes, maybe they should consider a kid line?
Desbiens is basically Lee Goren, only slower and with substantially worse hands. One of the worst players I've ever seen dress regularly for this club.
Lee Goren is currently rocking the DEL here in Germany with a PPG of 1,31
Do you think his hits have made an impact? If he was a gritty player who was quick on the forecheck and created havoc in front of the goalie, I would have no problems with his lack of offensive skills.
I'm not necessarily saying that I'm a fan of the decision to keep Desbiens up, I think his skating is a bit awkward, I was just saying what AV's justification might be for keeping him up. Alberts and Hansen are the only players with more hits atm.
Schaeffer has been surprising good on the 4th line. With him out there we are getting the puck out our zone better and keeping the puck on the outside when it is in our zone. Also, we had much better up ice pressure. Schaeffer has continued to make smart plays and shown an ability to advance the puck through the neutral zone. He is working with some real plumbers and has added some very much needed finesse to that line without being a defensive liability.
Moreover, Schaeffer has been increasingly better on the PK.
During the early part of the season, Schaeffer did not look good on the wing and was an easy cut. However, in the middle of the ice at center, he has drastically improved his play.
Right now, given the need for a 4th line center and the job Schaeffer has done on the PK, Schaeffer is a player to keep up. It may be that Rypein will return to the 4th line center when he comes back but it could equally be that Schaeffer keeps the position and Rypien replaces DesBiens or Glass on the wing. Bolduc is still in the long term equation but at this point Schaeffer has at least shown himself adequate.
DesBiens is what he is - a fourth line banger with little hockey skill. Yet, this is his first go around in the League and he does seem to possess enough speed to keep in the play. There is a chance that with time he becomes more effective. I think the teams needs to be patient with Desbiens and to find out what they have here. Besides that the team does not have much toughness outside of DesBiens and Glass. Would also say that DesBiens, to this point, has outplayed Glass and probably is the better hope to improve.
That leaves Tambellini. Tambellini has played fairly well and done about all that could be asked. However, Burrows moves into his spot with the Sedins. The Sedins need someone who can work the boards better and go to the net harder. Also, Tambellini was tried on the 4th line and looked very ill-suited to that role. Schaeffer IMO has clearly out-played Tambellini in that position.
To me, there is just not a role for Tambellini at the moment. From the beginning Tambelini was a skill player who had to make it in a top 6 role. He's close but but not there. Moreover, the fact that DesBiens might, to a greater or lesser degree depending on your point of view, be struggling does not open up a role for Tambellini. He is not going to be a player who can step in a provide the kind of 4th line toughness the Canucks require.
What is good about Tambellini is that he has shown he can provide top 6 depth and can contribute there if needed.
The one thing the Canucks should above all NOT DO is to break up the Malhotra - Hansen - Torres line.
Schaeffer has been surprising good on the 4th line. With him out there we are getting the puck out our zone better and keeping the puck on the outside when it is in our zone. Also, we had much better up ice pressure. Schaeffer has continued to make smart plays and shown an ability to advance the puck through the neutral zone. He is working with some real plumbers and has added some very much needed finesse to that line without being a defensive liability.
Moreover, Schaeffer has been increasingly better on the PK.
During the early part of the season, Schaeffer did not look good on the wing and was an easy cut. However, in the middle of the ice at center, he has drastically improved his play.
Right now, given the need for a 4th line center and the job Schaeffer has done on the PK, Schaeffer is a player to keep up. It may be that Rypein will return to the 4th line center when he comes back but it could equally be that Schaeffer keeps the position and Rypien replaces DesBiens or Glass on the wing. Bolduc is still in the long term equation but at this point Schaeffer has at least shown himself adequate.
DesBiens is what he is - a fourth line banger with little hockey skill. Yet, this is his first go around in the League and he does seem to possess enough speed to keep in the play. There is a chance that with time he becomes more effective. I think the teams needs to be patient with Desbiens and to find out what they have here. Besides that the team does not have much toughness outside of DesBiens and Glass. Would also say that DesBiens, to this point, has outplayed Glass and probably is the better hope to improve.
That leaves Tambellini. Tambellini has played fairly well and done about all that could be asked. However, Burrows moves into his spot with the Sedins. The Sedins need someone who can work the boards better and go to the net harder. Also, Tambellini was tried on the 4th line and looked very ill-suited to that role. Schaeffer IMO has clearly out-played Tambellini in that position.
To me, there is just not a role for Tambellini at the moment. From the beginning Tambelini was a skill player who had to make it in a top 6 role. He's close but but not there. Moreover, the fact that DesBiens might, to a greater or lesser degree depending on your point of view, be struggling does not open up a role for Tambellini. He is not going to be a player who can step in a provide the kind of 4th line toughness the Canucks require.
What is good about Tambellini is that he has shown he can provide top 6 depth and can contribute there if needed.
The one thing the Canucks should above all NOT DO is to break up the Malhotra - Hansen - Torres line.
Agreed with your last statement, which is EXACTLY why the team should keep Tambellini. If they don't keep Tambellini, and then have a minor injury to someone in the top-9, then they have no choice but to break that line up and promote one of those guys into the top-6, and likely Glass goes into the 3rd line.
Even if Tambellini is a healthy scratch as often as not, at least he gives you the flexibility to ice 3 solid lines if someone comes out of the lineup. Getting rid of him leaves no flexibility at all.
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I don't know what you're seeing in the bolded quote. Desbiens' skating is *awful*, easily the worst on the team, and he's having all kinds of trouble keeping up with the play. Constantly a step behind. His straight-line speed is OK but his first-step quickness is brutal and he has the turning radius of an oil tanker.
Glass can at least keep up with the play in terms of footspeed. Desbiens cannot, which is why unlike you I don't see much hope for improvement there. Like I said before, the guy is a worse skater than Lee Goren (and worse overall player) and that's saying something. Is simply not an NHL-calibre player.
You look at Chicago's 4th line of Bickell - Dowell - Skille and those 3 can actually play hockey. When matched up against our own 4th line they just dominated them in terms of puck possession. Outside of Bickell who's more of the crash-and-bang type of player, Dowell is good defensively, and also has an element of nasty. See, his primary contribution to the team is bringing a defensive game to that team, and the hitting and energy that he also provides is secondary to that. With Skille you have a fast forechecker who works hard and has some offensive upside. In this case he brings speed and energy to the lineup.
Simply put, their 4th line has a nice mix of players who bring different elements to that forward trio, who all can play physical, but they're able to play with their own strengths in mind first and foremost. The thing is that even on the 4th line, you need well-rounded players, and I just don't feel that is the case with Desbiens in the lineup. He just doesn't bring anything useful other than physicality and a willingness to fight. Glass is versatile in that he fights as well but can also do spot duty on the PK, whereas Desbiens is just too one-dimensional to be worth keeping up with the Canucks. Not hating on the guy here, but right now he just isn't bringing anything else to the table that someone like Schaefer or Tambellini couldn't (speed/forecheck, PK etc). And IMO, toughness is overrated when you're constantly chasing the puck in your own zone. I'd rather have a 4th line that can actually get the puck through the neutral zone and into the opponent's end, then forecheck effectively and cycle and wear down the other team, that can also help generate shots on goal. Our 4th line never seems to shoot the puck when they do somehow manage to get a limited cycle going.
Agreed with your last statement, which is EXACTLY why the team should keep Tambellini. If they don't keep Tambellini, and then have a minor injury to someone in the top-9, then they have no choice but to break that line up and promote one of those guys into the top-6, and likely Glass goes into the 3rd line.
Even if Tambellini is a healthy scratch as often as not, at least he gives you the flexibility to ice 3 solid lines if someone comes out of the lineup. Getting rid of him leaves no flexibility at all.
__________
I don't know what you're seeing in the bolded quote. Desbiens' skating is *awful*, easily the worst on the team, and he's having all kinds of trouble keeping up with the play. Constantly a step behind. His straight-line speed is OK but his first-step quickness is brutal and he has the turning radius of an oil tanker.
Glass can at least keep up with the play in terms of footspeed. Desbiens cannot, which is why unlike you I don't see much hope for improvement there. Like I said before, the guy is a worse skater than Lee Goren (and worse overall player) and that's saying something. Is simply not an NHL-calibre player.
Maybe long term, but if you are talking the immediate short term then
Schaeffer> Tambellini
Keep Schaeffer because you need a 4th line center and Schaeffer has been a lot better than Tambellini in this position. Right now with both Rypien and Bolduc out, you need a 4th line center and Schaeffer is preferable
DesBiens>Tambellini
Again it comes down to roles. Tambellini is obviously the better hockey player but can provide no toughness or grinding ability for the 4th line. Line is already small with Schaeffer on it and gets really small if Tambellini is the winger. If you are going to have a player playing limited minutes in a 4th line role, providing some toughness if needed, then the better choice IMO is DesBiens.
I don't think you can predicate the present line-up on "what-ifs". You have to deal with the situation as it is. Right now the team is better with Schaeffer as your 4th line center and DesBiens as your 4th line winger. If you think Tambellini is better than Schaeffer as your 4th line center or DesBiens as your 4th line winger then you keep Tambellini. If not then, presently, Tambellini is the one to go.
To me the 4th line is finally, with Schaeffer at center, beginning to work a little better. For the first time in living memory there seems a glint of light at the end of the tunnel. To throw that away because we want to keep Tambellini as a possible replacement player seems foolish to me.
The only caveat to that is a consideration of who best makes it through waivers. Long term, as you suggest, it might be better to have Tambellini as a fill for the top 3 lines. If you think that Tambellini gets taken off waivers and someone like Schaeffer makes it through then you might want to take on the short term pain of having Tambellini center the 4th line.
.......
To me, Glass has been less involved in the play than DesBiens. DesBiens is getting to the goal and creating some chances whereas Glass is never involved in the offense. Desbiens has some decent speed coming down the wing (although he ends up carrying himself out of the play) whereas Glass shows no speed off the wing. The only time Glass had any chance to score at all this year was when Turco beat him to the puck and then tripped Glass. Both are very clumsy but DesBiens no more so than Glass.
Also the evidence would suggest DesBiens has more potential to improve.
Glass has more than a full year in both Florida and Vancouver to adapt to an NHL pace whereas DesBiens has had only a few games. If Glass had any potential to improve it should be showing. He is what he is and he is not getting any better.
Moreover, I watched the Moose a lot last year and DesBiens was a dominant player - probably their overall best player. My bet is if you sent Glass to the minors he would do little. He would never score or be the offensive player there or any where else.
Look at the records. In over 90 AHL games, Glass scored 10 goals and had 24 points. DesBiens had 40 goals and 81 points the last couple of year in Manitoba. Age wise DesBiens is a couple of years younger.
I don't know how you say Glass has been noticeably better this year than DesBiens or how Glass has more potential. What do you base that on?? DesBiens is getting his first chance this year and was a lot better player at the AHL level. Glass has been given time and, if anything, appears to be regressing.
The only case you seem to be making is that if you exaggerate or ridicule DesBiens skating then you prove your case. It is like saying that I really, really , really, really believe something and then suppose the strength of your belief somehow makes the argument. I think you have to have better evidence than exaggeration and ridicule.
Probably DesBiens will not pan out but you have to give him a chance. You did the same thing with Brown. You went entirely hyperbolic about what a horrible player he was - about how he would never be an NHL player. In fact , you guaranteed it.
I can see your argument that Tambellini has NHL talent (or at least close to it) and that DesBiens probably doesn't and, in a general sense, that should be decisive. But you also have to consider the roles people need to play in balancing out a hockey team. Sometimes you keep the less talented player because he fulfills a certain capacity that, overall, makes the team better.
Given the present circumstances, I think Schaeffer and DesBiens are more valuable to the team then Tambellini.
Glass Desbiens Rypien: You don't need 3 of them on the ice, in fact you would only ever want a max of two on the team at any time if you could help it. If you had injuries and only one could play it wouldn't hurt then. So why carry a replace plug/goon.
MS is on the money. If worst comes to worst Tambellini can play 4th line. I'd rather see Tambellini on the 4th line than better any of Glass/Desbiens/Rypien on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd line.
I'd be inclined to keep Schaefer until Bolduc gets back (if not longer) for similar balance reasons. If Schaefer is send down and and a top 9 centre gets injured who is going to be centring our 3rd and 4th lines? Do we really want Rypien centring the 3rd line and Desbiens as the 4th C if can't get a replacement from the farm fast enough?
Keep tambo, put him on 2nd line = speed line
1st line sedins and bur
third line torres/manny/sammy
Does not equal speed line= weak float around the outside line. The third line is doing great, you do not mess with it just to get tambo in the lineup. It seems like everytime someone want, Hodgson, Scheoder, or Tambellini in the line up it involves Hansen being put on the fourth line. You think Tambellini is going to be a great playoff player? When the game get more physical you want a line with Raymond and Tambellini soaking up the second most evenstrength minutes. Tambellini a great fill in player on the top two line but do not displace real NHL players to get him in the lineup.
Maybe long term, but if you are talking the immediate short term then
Schaeffer> Tambellini
Keep Schaeffer because you need a 4th line center and Schaeffer has been a lot better than Tambellini in this position. Right now with both Rypien and Bolduc out, you need a 4th line center and Schaeffer is preferable
DesBiens>Tambellini
Again it comes down to roles. Tambellini is obviously the better hockey player but can provide no toughness or grinding ability for the 4th line. Line is already small with Schaeffer on it and gets really small if Tambellini is the winger. If you are going to have a player playing limited minutes in a 4th line role, providing some toughness if needed, then the better choice IMO is DesBiens.
I don't think you can predicate the present line-up on "what-ifs". You have to deal with the situation as it is. Right now the team is better with Schaeffer as your 4th line center and DesBiens as your 4th line winger. If you think Tambellini is better than Schaeffer as your 4th line center or DesBiens as your 4th line winger then you keep Tambellini. If not then, presently, Tambellini is the one to go.
To me the 4th line is finally, with Schaeffer at center, beginning to work a little better. For the first time in living memory there seems a glint of light at the end of the tunnel. To throw that away because we want to keep Tambellini as a possible replacement player seems foolish to me.
The only caveat to that is a consideration of who best makes it through waivers. Long term, as you suggest, it might be better to have Tambellini as a fill for the top 3 lines. If you think that Tambellini gets taken off waivers and someone like Schaeffer makes it through then you might want to take on the short term pain of having Tambellini center the 4th line.
Rypien will be back in 3 games and if toughness is an issue Tambellini can sit and we can throw Rypien-Schaefer-Glass out there.
Agree that Schaefer has looked better than Tambellini at center and that gives him an edge on that front.
But again, by far the biggest consideration for me is that, when you only have 9 guys capable of being top-9 forwards, your 13th forward has to be capable of slotting in on your top 3 lines.
Tanner Glass skating in our top-9 is embarassing, and something I don't want to see happen again. And based on your comments on Glass, I don't think you do either.
For the record, I'd be carrying 14 forwards and 7 defenders, and if we need an 8th D, Sweatt can come up and down freely (and is a better player than Parent in any case).
Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown
To me, Glass has been less involved in the play than DesBiens. DesBiens is getting to the goal and creating some chances whereas Glass is never involved in the offense. Desbiens has some decent speed coming down the wing (although he ends up carrying himself out of the play) whereas Glass shows no speed off the wing. The only time Glass had any chance to score at all this year was when Turco beat him to the puck and then tripped Glass. Both are very clumsy but DesBiens no more so than Glass.
Also the evidence would suggest DesBiens has more potential to improve.
Glass has more than a full year in both Florida and Vancouver to adapt to an NHL pace whereas DesBiens has had only a few games. If Glass had any potential to improve it should be showing. He is what he is and he is not getting any better.
Moreover, I watched the Moose a lot last year and DesBiens was a dominant player - probably their overall best player. My bet is if you sent Glass to the minors he would do little. He would never score or be the offensive player there or any where else.
Look at the records. In over 90 AHL games, Glass scored 10 goals and had 24 points. DesBiens had 40 goals and 81 points the last couple of year in Manitoba. Age wise DesBiens is a couple of years younger.
I don't know how you say Glass has been noticeably better this year than DesBiens or how Glass has more potential. What do you base that on?? DesBiens is getting his first chance this year and was a lot better player at the AHL level. Glass has been given time and, if anything, appears to be regressing.
The only case you seem to be making is that if you exaggerate or ridicule DesBiens skating then you prove your case. It is like saying that I really, really , really, really believe something and then suppose the strength of your belief somehow makes the argument. I think you have to have better evidence than exaggeration and ridicule.
I'm not defending Glass here. He hasn't been nearly good enough, either. I wouldn't say either of those two has been better than the other.
But Glass has shown an ability to skate at the NHL level and get in and throw the body effectively at the NHL level. Was a solid 4th liner for this club last season.
Yes, Desbiens is a better AHL player than Glass. But against NHL players, Desbiens' skating deficiencies are just too big to overcome.
And his skating really is awful. I'm not trying to ridicule him and just used a turn of phrase to describe how bad his ability to react and turn is. It's very, very poor and not NHL calibre.
He's constantly reacting and a step behind the play. Like I said before, it strongly reminds me of Lee Goren (who was a brilliant AHL player, much better than Desbiens) but had similar skating problems and simply coudn't cut it at this level.
It's a shame Oreskovic was hurt because it seemed like he was off to a really strong start in Manitoba, and he actually does have the wheels to make a physical impact in the NHL. Good to see he's back, and if he continues his strong play I'd look at him getting a chance here ASAP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown
Probably DesBiens will not pan out but you have to give him a chance. You did the same thing with Brown. You went entirely hyperbolic about what a horrible player he was - about how he would never be an NHL player. In fact , you guaranteed it.
For cripes' sake, enough with Brown.
Show me where I guaranteed this? I've looked and the worst I can find is that I called him a 'dime a dozen no-talent utility player'. Which his is. As are Glass and Desbiens.
My gripe with Brown was that he had a terrible camp and didn't make the team on merit, and was then kept on the roster over better players who provided ingredients we needed more.
And Gillis eventually agreed with me and I was proven right. Brown was dumped, Wellwood was a better addition to the roster who provided more value, and although he's improved since leaving, Brown is still a marginal 4th line NHL player. Basically the same player as Glass only better on the PK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orcatown
I can see your argument that Tambellini has NHL talent (or at least close to it) and that DesBiens probably doesn't and, in a general sense, that should be decisive. But you also have to consider the roles people need to play in balancing out a hockey team. Sometimes you keep the less talented player because he fulfills a certain capacity that, overall, makes the team better.
Given the present circumstances, I think Schaeffer and DesBiens are more valuable to the team then Tambellini.
And again, this is where I disagree.
We have multiple guys here who can play 6-8 minutes on the 4th line, have no puck skill, and can throw a few hits. We don't have anyone else who can slide into top-9 minutes.
Right now, Desbiens is doing nothing to make the team better. In 10 games, he has 2 SOG, a lost fight, and a bunch of nothing hits. Is not contributing anything to make this team better. Tambellini has.
Right now, Desbiens is doing nothing to make the team better. In 10 games, he has 2 SOG, a lost fight, and a bunch of nothing hits. Is not contributing anything to make this team better. Tambellini has.
But he's french! Ergo Tambo will be sent down tomorrow, unless he was french too.
Oh the memories...
