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Old
11-04-2010, 06:16 PM
  #51
Soundwave
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
No deal. I don't want Phaneuf in Oilers gear, ever. A year from now, Phaneuf's contract will be considered one of the worst, if not the worst, and his attitude is garbage. Unless we can find another team to move him to instantly, I hope the Oilers don't do this deal
Why? We're rebuilding and need younger D-Men and Dion fits the age range we'd be looking at.

His supposed "attitude" issues are overblown, he was supposed to be the problem in the Calgary locker room, but clearly he wasn't seeing how they continue to tail spin.

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11-04-2010, 06:19 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by TyBOZAK View Post
Then what about Horcoff, who plays Center on the third line ?
Second line. Cogliano centres the third line, Fraser the fourth.

Can't see Horcoff being traded. He's the new captain, and his leadership is a welcome one after Moreau's reign of terror. Anyone saying otherwise has no idea what they're talking about. Regardless of what his salary is, his leadership to help mentor Hall, Eberle, MPS, etc. is incredibly important, and every important person in the organization realizes and knows this.

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11-04-2010, 06:21 PM
  #53
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Horcoff has been a lot better this year, but I still wouldn't hesitate to trade him if another team was willing to bite on that contract.

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11-04-2010, 06:23 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Why? We're rebuilding and need younger D-Men and Dion fits the age range we'd be looking at.

His supposed "attitude" issues are overblown, he was supposed to be the problem in the Calgary locker room, but clearly he wasn't seeing how they continue to tail spin.
No, his attitude was a problem in Calgary. The man is a man-child. And it is the reason he doesn't get any better. The guy thinks he's a superstar, and acts like it. We don't need that in the dressing room. He isn't earning his paycheque, and hasn't since he signed the contract. We need to get younger, and we need help on the blueline, but not when that help is paid twice what he should be, and is going to cause issues.

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11-04-2010, 06:24 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Horcoff has been a lot better this year, but I still wouldn't hesitate to trade him if another team was willing to bite on that contract.
Phaneuf's contract is almost as bad, and he doesn't bring the positive's that Horcoff is with the kids. I don't see why we need to move big contracts right now anyway, we aren't in danger of hitting the cap.

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11-04-2010, 06:25 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Horcoff has been a lot better this year, but I still wouldn't hesitate to trade him if another team was willing to bite on that contract.
Yes, because the team is just mired in cap hell...only, what, 10 million dollars in cap space? Wait, closer to 14 million, I think.

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11-04-2010, 06:27 PM
  #57
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Yes, because the team is just mired in cap hell...only, what, 10 million dollars in cap space? Wait, closer to 14 million, I think.
Well too bad the cap doesn't actually work that way, I'm thinking about our cap structure 2-4 years down the line when the Oilers have to re-up Hall, Eberle, MPS, Gagner, Hemsky, and possibly a Couturier or Larsson on top of that.

Then you probably won't be doing backflips about paying your no.2/3 center a $5+ mill cap hit.

Horcoff's fine, but he hasn't been consistent enough to warrant any loyalty on the part of the Oilers. If they can move his contract without taking on a longer one in return -- do it. If we end up keeping him we probably are going to be forced to buy out the last 1 or 2 years of his deal no matter what to give us cap room.

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11-04-2010, 06:31 PM
  #58
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I can't believe somebody suggested the Leafs trade for Horcoff. Come on.

I do like the Komisarek + prospect for Penner idea.

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11-04-2010, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Well too bad the cap doesn't actually work that way, I'm thinking about our cap structure 2-4 years down the line when the Oilers have to re-up Hall, Eberle, MPS, Gagner, Hemsky, and possibly a Couturier or Larsson on top of that.

Then you probably won't be doing backflips about paying your no.2/3 center a $5+ mill cap hit.

Horcoff's fine, but he hasn't been consistent enough to warrant any loyalty on the part of the Oilers. If they can move his contract without taking on a longer one in return -- do it.
Who plays centre if you trade Horcoff? The team is already in need of a competent 3rd line centre with him on the team (since Horc is in the 2nd line C spot). Not to mention the leadership he brings, which you really can't put a pricetag on. I think it would be incredibly moronic to trade him at this point. Perhaps you subscribe to pulling the plug this early and tanking for another top 3 pick--must be the case.

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11-04-2010, 06:33 PM
  #60
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Phaneuf's contract is almost as bad, and he doesn't bring the positive's that Horcoff is with the kids. I don't see why we need to move big contracts right now anyway, we aren't in danger of hitting the cap.
Phaneuf is also a hell of a lot more physical than most of our paper soft D. And can QB a PP. We shouldn't assume we're going to land Larrson, there's a fair chance we're not bad enough this year to get right into that top 3.

I'll take a chance on Phaneuf versus Horcoff given their age difference and our need for help on the blueline any day.

But likely Burke is not going to bite on that. Penner + Gilbert for Phaneuf + Gunnarson I would do though and I think that could work for Toronto also.

They get more balance in their scoring and an immediate 30+ goals injected into their offense, we get stocked with two younger guys with size on our blueline.

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11-04-2010, 06:39 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by KarmaPolice View Post
Who plays centre if you trade Horcoff? The team is already in need of a competent 3rd line centre with him on the team (since Horc is in the 2nd line C spot). Not to mention the leadership he brings, which you really can't put a pricetag on. I think it would be incredibly moronic to trade him at this point. Perhaps you subscribe to pulling the plug this early and tanking for another top 3 pick--must be the case.
Honestly **** the 3rd line center thing. I really don't care. We are tanking this season and it's painfully obvious the Oilers front office isn't going to lift a finger to address that this year.

Slide Brule over to the C spot (where he should be playing anyway) and call up Omark or Giroux.

10 solid games from Horcoff doesn't get him out of my crap book ... he is a big time cap liability and likely still will bite the Oilers in the rear 3 or 4 years down the line when guys like Pitlick and Lander are able to play his role and likely do it even better for 1/5th the cost.

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11-04-2010, 06:41 PM
  #62
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In 2 - 4 years we will have a higher cap, not to mention a totally different CBA. You plan to have room even with all of these guys. And let's not forget, that the longer Horcoff's contract goes, the easier it will be to move.

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Well too bad the cap doesn't actually work that way, I'm thinking about our cap structure 2-4 years down the line when the Oilers have to re-up Hall, Eberle, MPS, Gagner, Hemsky, and possibly a Couturier or Larsson on top of that.

Then you probably won't be doing backflips about paying your no.2/3 center a $5+ mill cap hit.

Horcoff's fine, but he hasn't been consistent enough to warrant any loyalty on the part of the Oilers. If they can move his contract without taking on a longer one in return -- do it. If we end up keeping him we probably are going to be forced to buy out the last 1 or 2 years of his deal no matter what to give us cap room.

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11-04-2010, 06:42 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
In 2 - 4 years we will have a higher cap, not to mention a totally different CBA. You plan to have room even with all of these guys. And let's not forget, that the longer Horcoff's contract goes, the easier it will be to move.
No one is gong to want a 33/34 year old Horcoff. If we can move him now, we'd be stupid not to do it.

What? Moving Horcoff is going to kill our chances of winning the Cup this season? Aw. Too bad.

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11-04-2010, 06:43 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Honestly **** the 3rd line center thing. I really don't care. We are tanking this season and it's painfully obvious the Oilers front office isn't going to lift a finger to address that this year.

Slide Brule over to the C spot (where he should be playing anyway) and call up Omark or Giroux.

10 solid games from Horcoff doesn't get him out of my crap book ... he is a big time cap liability and likely still will bite the Oilers in the rear 3 or 4 years down the line when guys like Pitlick and Lander are able to play his role and likely do it even better for 1/5th the cost.
Okay, Tambellini. I didn't think you posted on this thread. Even if you wanted to trade Horcoff, good luck. Do you, or anyone else, realistically think Burke or any other GM would take him? But I say, who gives a **** about that, because Horcoff is a good fit where he is for the time being. If he needs to be bought out down the road, it will be done.

And then you talk of Burke trading Phaneuf? Man, I want what you're smoking.

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11-04-2010, 06:44 PM
  #65
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No, his attitude was a problem in Calgary. The man is a man-child. And it is the reason he doesn't get any better. The guy thinks he's a superstar, and acts like it. We don't need that in the dressing room. He isn't earning his paycheque, and hasn't since he signed the contract. We need to get younger, and we need help on the blueline, but not when that help is paid twice what he should be, and is going to cause issues.
Do you know him personally?

If you don't, then don't judge him, because you don't know him.

Are you sure your not the one with attitude issues?

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11-04-2010, 06:45 PM
  #66
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Phaneuf isn't soft, but he hits dumb. He takes himself out of the play a lot for the sake of a hit. And he doesn't clear the front of the net well. Right now, he is a younger Souray. He is NOT a powerplay QB, he is a shooter. He is not better than Foster in that regard (better in almost every other way yes, but I digress). I'm not assuming that we are going to get Larsson, I agree, we may not be a top three team this season. But I still don't want Phaneuf. I have it on good record (none that count as a "source") that Phaneuf is a grade A ********. If it was just his play we were discussing, maybe, but his attitude is not something I want to deal with.

I do agree with one thing you say though. Burke isn't trading Phaneuf. Especially for Horcoff. Personally, I wouldn't trade a dirty towel for Phaneuf.

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Phaneuf is also a hell of a lot more physical than most of our paper soft D. And can QB a PP. We shouldn't assume we're going to land Larrson, there's a fair chance we're not bad enough this year to get right into that top 3.

I'll take a chance on Phaneuf versus Horcoff given their age difference and our need for help on the blueline any day.

But likely Burke is not going to bite on that. Penner + Gilbert for Phaneuf + Gunnarson I would do though and I think that could work for Toronto also.

They get more balance in their scoring and an immediate 30+ goals injected into their offense, we get stocked with two younger guys with size on our blueline.

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11-04-2010, 06:45 PM
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Okay, Tambellini. I didn't think you posted on this thread. Even if you wanted to trade Horcoff, good luck. Do you, or anyone else, realistically think Burke or any other GM would take him? But I say, who gives a **** about that, because Horcoff is a good fit where he is for the time being. If he needs to be bought out down the road, it will be done.
Nope no GM would take him and you're right about that. I'm just saying in the odd scenario where some other team was willing to take him on -- great.

I'd drive him to the airport personally. Nice guy, decent player, but the Oilers have made him a rich man based on some pretty inconsistent play.

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11-04-2010, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
Do you know him personally?

If you don't, then don't judge him, because you don't know him.

Are you sure your not the one with attitude issues?
I know a number of people who do know him personally. Not that it holds wait on a forum, but I won't disguise my dislike for the man-child because I don't have a "source" either. He brings good physical tools to a team, even with his downfalls, he is a player worth having, aside from his personality.

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11-04-2010, 06:47 PM
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Phaneuf isn't soft, but he hits dumb. He takes himself out of the play a lot for the sake of a hit. And he doesn't clear the front of the net well. Right now, he is a younger Souray. He is NOT a powerplay QB, he is a shooter. He is not better than Foster in that regard (better in almost every other way yes, but I digress). I'm not assuming that we are going to get Larsson, I agree, we may not be a top three team this season. But I still don't want Phaneuf. I have it on good record (none that count as a "source") that Phaneuf is a grade A ********. If it was just his play we were discussing, maybe, but his attitude is not something I want to deal with.

I do agree with one thing you say though. Burke isn't trading Phaneuf. Especially for Horcoff. Personally, I wouldn't trade a dirty towel for Phaneuf.
Honestly I wouldn't mind having a "younger" version of Souray if that's what Phaneuf amounts to (so long as he isn't hurt every freaking 20 games like Sheldon is).

Plus Dion's first pass out of the zone is much better than Souray's ever was.

If they want Penner +, fine I'll even put Gilbert on the table too ... but I want Phaneuf from their side. Otherwise I don't see a fit here. Komisarek and Beaucheman are too old to factor in to when he intend to compete.

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11-04-2010, 06:49 PM
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Honestly I wouldn't mind having a "younger" version of Souray if that's what Phaneuf amounts to (so long as he isn't hurt every freaking 20 games like Sheldon is).

Plus Dion's first pass out of the zone is much better than Souray's ever was.
It's not very good. Better than Souray in that case is nothing to be happy with. Dion's contract is astronomical as per recent play (ie, the moment after he signed the contract until now) as well.

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11-04-2010, 06:49 PM
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I know a number of people who do know him personally. Not that it holds wait on a forum, but I won't disguise my dislike for the man-child because I don't have a "source" either. He brings good physical tools to a team, even with his downfalls, he is a player worth having, aside from his personality.
Yeah, I'm sure you do, but do you know him?

And your posts are just completely uninformed, so I'm not even going to argue with you anymore.

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11-04-2010, 06:51 PM
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It's not very good. Better than Souray in that case is nothing to be happy with. Dion's contract is astronomical as per recent play (ie, the moment after he signed the contract until now) as well.
I'll take him over Gilbert in any case. Gunarrson sounds ok too.

Of course there's a risk, we're not going to get a sure fire 25 year old first pairing d-man from anyone unless we buy low and take a chance somewhere.

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11-04-2010, 06:52 PM
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Yeah, I'm sure you do, but do you know him?

And your posts are just completely uninformed, so I'm not even going to argue with you anymore.
The word you are looking for is not uninformed, its unbiased. I've watched Phaneuf more than you have, I am certain. And I trust the people I know who have met him to judge his personality much better than any staged reports on TSN or Leaf fans who have a man-crush on him. And what about my analysis of his play is wrong? I'm sure I've watched Phaneuf play more hockey than you have, and have had ample time to study his style of play, positives, and downfalls.

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11-04-2010, 06:54 PM
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I'll take him over Gilbert in any case. Gunarrson sounds ok too.

Of course there's a risk, we're not going to get a sure fire 25 year old first pairing d-man from anyone unless we buy low and take a chance somewhere.
Agree to disagree then, I know I'm in the minority on this one, but unless we have another instant trade lined up to ship Phaneuf out, I wouldn't want him over Jim Vandermeer. We have too many fresh minds who don't need to pick up his "play for money", "don't tell me what to do, I'm better than you", and "don't tell me how to play, I'm Dion F'ing Phaneuf" attitude.

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11-04-2010, 06:55 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
The word you are looking for is not uninformed, its unbiased. I've watched Phaneuf more than you have, I am certain. And I trust the people I know who have met him to judge his personality much better than any staged reports on TSN or Leaf fans who have a man-crush on him. And what about my analysis of his play is wrong? I'm sure I've watched Phaneuf play more hockey than you have, and have had ample time to study his style of play, positives, and downfalls.
Yeah, bad attitude is widely known by most Albertan hockey fans. It's not even debatable, really. Phaneuf also has a history of concussions that he and the Flames hid, or tried to hide, as best as possible. I bet most Leaf fans didn't know about that. Lindros part 2 just waiting to happen, in any given hit, incidental or otherwise. When was the last time you saw him go for a massive hit? Honestly. Been a while, hasn't it? Not since he was a Flame. He's a declawed tiger, now-a-days.

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Agree to disagree then, I know I'm in the minority on this one, but unless we have another instant trade lined up to ship Phaneuf out, I wouldn't want him over Jim Vandermeer. We have too many fresh minds who don't need to pick up his "play for money", "don't tell me what to do, I'm better than you", and "don't tell me how to play, I'm Dion F'ing Phaneuf" attitude.
With you 100%. And yes, the "I'm better than everyone" attitude is the one that eventually alienated him from most, if not all, of his former Flames team-mates.

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