[QUOTE=LIUhockey18;39114973]My point is that firing Garth is not the answer. The guy is doing the best with what he has to work with and after just watching this team lose 6-2 to the Bruins, the players and talent are there minus 2 players but the work ethic sucks. Firing Garth won't fix that, kicking the crap out of your team tomorrow morning will.
Truth is that until Wang sells this team or changes his philosophy on how to run it, it doesn't matter who is in the GM seat because his hands will be tied. [/QUOTE]
Well said. I am still unsure of how good Garth is or isn't as much needs to flesh out over time to really know, but I do know that Wang is the underlying root of all the team's ills. From the bad contracts to letting the kids starve without any real support via payroll, he is letting the club rot. I actually feel bad for Snow as Wang makes him stand in front of us and tell bald faced lies. That must suck.
Amen to that!!!! Remember Columbus overpaid for 2 of our undesirables (Wizzer and Martinek) to get Stralman off the ice.
It is also an indicator as to how poor the market is for defensemen right now. Th Rangers are not afraid to trade for need yet this is the best they can do?
I said it in the summer and it bears fruit now: the team really screwed up by not at least trading for that defenseman they needed this summer. The market is now closed, and the the hope for the playoffs is fading quickly.
Last edited by A Pointed Stick: 11-07-2011 at 09:43 PM.
No doubt that the current state of the team is 100% on Wang, but its very easy for us to say that he needs to spend more to make this team competitive. The reality is that it would take approx 15 million in additional payroll to turn this into a competitive team. That would bring Wangs losses to somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 million a year. Come on...would any of us do that? Even if it guaranteed us the playoffs (which it wouldnt) I doubt he could cover that with gate receipts.
Im no Wang appologist, just a realist. The Islanders are just not solvent on yhe Island in there current state. This is not just a Wang problem or a Snow problem. This is a problem going on 30 years now!
No doubt that the current state of the team is 100% on Wang, but its very easy for us to say that he needs to spend more to make this team competitive. The reality is that it would take approx 15 million in additional payroll to turn this into a competitive team. That would bring Wangs losses to somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 million a year. Come on...would any of us do that? Even if it guaranteed us the playoffs (which it wouldnt) I doubt he could cover that with gate receipts.
Im no Wang appologist, just a realist. The Islanders are just not solvent on yhe Island in there current state. This is not just a Wang problem or a Snow problem. This is a problem going on 30 years now!
Put a winner on the ice and people show up. Also, bring in just two good players, one on the blue line and one up front and this year becomes very different. You don't need another 15 mill to make a big difference with this club.
Put a winner on the ice and people show up. Also, bring in just two good players, one on the blue line and one up front and this year becomes very different. You don't need another 15 mill to make a big difference with this club.
Even if you think Wang is a idiot, he probably has very intelligent people working for him (most rich, successful people do). Im sure one of them wouldve pointed out to Wang that a net loss could become a net gain with a little more investment. Personally, I doubt it possible. Again though, if it were, why has it been a problem for ts francise since the late 80s?
Even if you think Wang is a idiot, he probably has very intelligent people working for him (most rich, successful people do). Im sure one of them wouldve pointed out to Wang that a net loss could become a net gain with a little more investment. Personally, I doubt it possible. Again though, if it were, why has it been a problem for ts franchise since the late 80s?
Would those be the same people who told him to retain Milbury when he first bought bought the club? If they qualify as intelligent then I am Einstein, you are Galileo, and our pets will discover the cure for death.
Put a winner on the ice and people show up. Also, bring in just two good players, one on the blue line and one up front and this year becomes very different. You don't need another 15 mill to make a big difference with this club.
Even if people showed up. It's a small arena, and quite frankly if the NVMC sold out every single game, it's still not anywhere near as profitable as pretty much any other arena (that's selling out). There's not a lot of club seats (the big bucks are here), it's dark/old/outdated. I've said it once-and I'll say it again-you don't realize how crappy the NVMC is, until you see other arenas. Every other arena I've been to has been better (ACC, St. Pete Times Forum, Verizon Center, HSBC). They all blow the NVMC out of the water. Does a new arena mean you'll attract a few thousand more people a night? No. It does mean you'll get the casual person/family looking to do something for a night thought. And it wont keep people away.
Long Island is also not a big market (even if NYC is right there). There's a reason why companies and corporations are leaving LI. The team attracts nobody from NYC, and quite frankly on Long Island they're at the bottom of the sports hierarchy.
I love the Islanders as much as the next person-but this team isn't profitable. Even with a new arena I doubt they make a lot (hence Wang's goal being all of the real estate development).
Even if people showed up. It's a small arena, and quite frankly if the NVMC sold out every single game, it's still not anywhere near as profitable as pretty much any other arena (that's selling out). There's not a lot of club seats (the big bucks are here), it's dark/old/outdated. I've said it once-and I'll say it again-you don't realize how crappy the NVMC is, until you see other arenas. Every other arena I've been to has been better (ACC, St. Pete Times Forum, Verizon Center, HSBC). They all blow the NVMC out of the water. Does a new arena mean you'll attract a few thousand more people a night? No. It does mean you'll get the casual person/family looking to do something for a night thought. And it wont keep people away.
Long Island is also not a big market (even if NYC is right there). There's a reason why companies and corporations are leaving LI. The team attracts nobody from NYC, and quite frankly on Long Island they're at the bottom of the sports hierarchy.
I love the Islanders as much as the next person-but this team isn't profitable. Even with a new arena I doubt they make a lot
Then he should sell, now. But no, he still smells profit so he sticks and plays the "build my arena dance" while letting the team rot. He is having his cake and eating it too. Meanwhile Tavares and the rest lose valuable development time playing with scrubs and characters from the old testament. Way to burn your long term investments.
Would those be the same people who told him to retain Milbury when he first bought bought the club? If they qualify as intelligent then I am Einstein, you are Galileo, and our pets will discover the cure for death.
APS, what your ignoring is that a league minimum payroll was long prior to Wang arrival. It goes back to every ownership group since Pickett left. Theres a rason for that...its not an accident.
Even if people showed up. It's a small arena, and quite frankly if the NVMC sold out every single game, it's still not anywhere near as profitable as pretty much any other arena (that's selling out). There's not a lot of club seats (the big bucks are here), it's dark/old/outdated. I've said it once-and I'll say it again-you don't realize how crappy the NVMC is, until you see other arenas. Every other arena I've been to has been better (ACC, St. Pete Times Forum, Verizon Center, HSBC). They all blow the NVMC out of the water. Does a new arena mean you'll attract a few thousand more people a night? No. It does mean you'll get the casual person/family looking to do something for a night thought. And it wont keep people away.
Long Island is also not a big market (even if NYC is right there). There's a reason why companies and corporations are leaving LI. The team attracts nobody from NYC, and quite frankly on Long Island they're at the bottom of the sports hierarchy.
I love the Islanders as much as the next person-but this team isn't profitable. Even with a new arena I doubt they make a lot (hence
Then he should sell, now. But no, he still smells profit so he sticks and plays the "build my arena dance" while letting the team rot. He is having his cake and eating it too. Meanwhile Tavares and the rest lose valuable development time playing with scrubs and characters from the old testament. Way to burn your long term investments.
Hey I agree with you're saying, but if Wang sells-the team is moving. Make no mistake about that.
It is also an indicator as to how poor the market is for defensemen right now. Th Rangers are not afraid to trade for need yet this is the best they can do?
I said it in the summer and it bears fruit now: the team really screwed up by not at least trading for that defenseman they needed this summer. The market is now closed, and the the hope for the playoffs is fading quickly.
If you can't make a UFA come here, then you have to trade for a bad contract on defense. I am sure we could have made a better package for Brian Campbell, he has been Norris caliber this year, and we could have given more than Florida offered.
If you can't make a UFA come here, then you have to trade for a bad contract on defense. I am sure we could have made a better package for Brian Campbell, he has been Norris caliber this year, and we could have given more than Florida offered.
APS, what your ignoring is that a league minimum payroll was long prior to Wang arrival. It goes back to every ownership group since Pickett left. Theres a rason for that...its not an accident.
The owners we had in the 90s were a collection of thieves and charlatans. You can't compare them to normal owners. Wang did spend, and if you make the playoffs you make major bank as an owner.
Regardless, if he has no intention of trying to build a winner, then perhaps he (and Garth) should stop lying about it.
Even if people showed up. It's a small arena, and quite frankly if the NVMC sold out every single game, it's still not anywhere near as profitable as pretty much any other arena (that's selling out). There's not a lot of club seats (the big bucks are here), it's dark/old/outdated. I've said it once-and I'll say it again-you don't realize how crappy the NVMC is, until you see other arenas. Every other arena I've been to has been better (ACC, St. Pete Times Forum, Verizon Center, HSBC). They all blow the NVMC out of the water. Does a new arena mean you'll attract a few thousand more people a night? No. It does mean you'll get the casual person/family looking to do something for a night thought. And it wont keep people away.
Long Island is also not a big market (even if NYC is right there). There's a reason why companies and corporations are leaving LI. The team attracts nobody from NYC, and quite frankly on Long Island they're at the bottom of the sports hierarchy.
I love the Islanders as much as the next person-but this team isn't profitable. Even with a new arena I doubt they make a lot (hence Wang's goal being all of the real estate development).
Even if you think Wang is a idiot, he probably has very intelligent people working for him (most rich, successful people do). Im sure one of them wouldve pointed out to Wang that a net loss could become a net gain with a little more investment. Personally, I doubt it possible. Again though, if it were, why has it been a problem for ts francise since the late 80s?
Read up on him and his management style and the threats and intimidation and the perceived hands on everything throughout his professional career and then tell me he has anyone other than yes men.
He doesn't. He had Milbury to teach and let him go, taking more and more on himself. He doesn't do anything wrong, the world is just too stupid to understand his genius.
That is the essence of Charles B. Wang. Idiot? No. Deluded and dangerous? Just ask those in prison. (he didn't know anything)
(well, he didn't get anything on paper or email as per policy at CA)
Even if people showed up. It's a small arena, and quite frankly if the NVMC sold out every single game, it's still not anywhere near as profitable as pretty much any other arena (that's selling out). There's not a lot of club seats (the big bucks are here), it's dark/old/outdated. I've said it once-and I'll say it again-you don't realize how crappy the NVMC is, until you see other arenas. Every other arena I've been to has been better (ACC, St. Pete Times Forum, Verizon Center, HSBC). They all blow the NVMC out of the water. Does a new arena mean you'll attract a few thousand more people a night? No. It does mean you'll get the casual person/family looking to do something for a night thought. And it wont keep people away.
Long Island is also not a big market (even if NYC is right there). There's a reason why companies and corporations are leaving LI. The team attracts nobody from NYC, and quite frankly on Long Island they're at the bottom of the sports hierarchy.
I love the Islanders as much as the next person-but this team isn't profitable. Even with a new arena I doubt they make a lot (hence Wang's goal being all of the real estate development).
If the Isles sell out every game they have 16,234 seats. Yes, we're limited. Detroit has 20,058 capacity and their arena is a dump worse than ours made better due to Ilitch's personal investments. Add seats and Wang is right there.
Right now, we're 18th in operating income. What we spend is low due to what we bring in on hockey related expenses.
Add gross revenue and we go up the list or can spend far more. Wang makes a bigger profit right now than:
Anaheim
Nashville
San Jose
St.Louis
Carolina
Columbus
Buffalo
Tampa
Atlanta
Washington
Florida
Phoenix
Now add the revenue from no Islander events and he's doing just fine.
If the Coliseum only had more seating and a rationale to spend money on the Islanders......a $4.5M loss would be far less.
And Wang would be making even more money.
But hey, Detroit is doing great despite being just the worst economy on US soil (though improving thank God!). Pittsburg rebounded. Steel came back some after decades of failure. Nassau? Won't rebound unless the people make a stand against the government. Or will it? I doubt it with taxes....but that said, we're not as bad as Detroit is.
If the Isles sell out every game they have 16,234 seats. Yes, we're limited. Detroit has 20,058 capacity and their arena is a dump worse than ours made better due to Ilitch's personal investments. Add seats and Wang is right there.
Right now, we're 18th in operating income. What we spend is low due to what we bring in on hockey related expenses.
Add gross revenue and we go up the list or can spend far more. Wang makes a bigger profit right now than:
Anaheim
Nashville
San Jose
St.Louis
Carolina
Columbus
Buffalo
Tampa
Atlanta
Washington
Florida
Phoenix
Now add the revenue from no Islander events and he's doing just fine.
If the Coliseum only had more seating and a rationale to spend money on the Islanders......a $4.5M loss would be far less.
Nope.
Adding seats means only means more seats to go empty. They don't come close to filling 16K seats and you want to add more? Priceless. The only time seats were ever filled consistently was when capacity was 14K, when tix prices were low and for the Dynasty.
The only reason Wang now makes more than the teams you mentioned is because he has the lowest payroll. An average payroll or a high one puts him right at the bottom. Even with the upgraded revenue lease now.
Why add non NYI revenue? That's not NYI's to operate with and has associated expenses. Maybe in nassau finance one is taught to look at that (why it fails) but in the real world divisions that aren't profitable to the whole company are modified or gone. Plus, that upgraded lease for more revenue (which still brings a loss with the lowest payroll) isn't guaranteed post 2015. No new building in nassau as of yet either.
The numbers don't work. Not enough revenue, people or politicians in nassau that care.
