Just like it was too early to call ourselves a playoff team after our hot start, it is too early to say we will be a lottery team after a losing streak.
DH, I usually agree with you, but here I kind of disagree. I don't think its the last 11 games that make people think we are a lottery team, its the roster in general. In blows chunks. Thats why I think they will be a lottery team. These last 5 games have just cemented that fact for me. Its pretty depressing 11 games in.
DH, I usually agree with you, but here I kind of disagree. I don't think its the last 11 games that make people think we are a lottery team, its the roster in general. In blows chunks. Thats why I think they will be a lottery team. These last 5 games have just cemented that fact for me. Its pretty depressing 11 games in.
I agree with you this is not a great team, especially with all the injuries.
But I don't think they are as bad as they have been these last few games(DP has helped us look worse). I also don't think they are as good as they looked in the first 6 or so games. They are likely somewhere in between.
I understand Snow has a tough job and this is not the team that he intended to have out there this year, but injuries happen to every team so we can't use that as an excuse, Rags are minus Gabby right now and they keep chugging along. The problem is Snows seasons all look too familiar for me
I think when you have a team like we have right now and we lost the players we lost we almost can use it as an excuse to an extent. We saw through the first 3 games what this team, and more importantly, this system is capable of. This is a TEAM and we need to get back into sync, it's only what 12 games into the season? We need to get back to solid 5-on-5 play and quick starts, PERIOD.
Have some faith and root them on for the good things we have seen thus far, thanks to Snow and Gordon collectively:
- The tweaked forecheck system (moving to a 3-2 system).
- The face-off percentage (8th in the league at 51.7%).
- Our PP percentage (8th in the league at 22.4% thanks to finally switching to an Umbrella PP, when have we not been in the bottom of the league here, not anytime in the last 5 years I reckon) .
- Our PK (17th, probably higher after tonight, at 82.7%).
Start judging this team in December after Okposo comes back, talk to me in February and March when we have massive stretches playing at home and our number one defenseman back. Hell look that's like two giant off-season moves right there!
Yes I agree, DiPietro is being forced to play due to the pressure from Wang, it's so clear, but really how else is he supposed to be tested legitimacy and gain ANY confidence? I am a goaltender, practice does nothing but help movement and tweak/clean up your style, the AHL will pepper him with low-quality chances, he needs NHL quality shots and I agree right now he is NOT an NHL caliber goaltender, but again, as fans and as ONE of MANY bright faces of our franchise we must ROOT HIM ON, not bury him (full disclosure I have a soft spot for Rick as I got to play hockey with him a couple of times in his college days through a mutual friend and have been a fan and supporter of his before he was drafted by the Isles).
Gervais is garbage, he is not an NHL player and should be waived or traded (I'm sure Snow is considering both options), possibly neither is Hillen, but playing them is better than calling up Reese and Kohn is it not? Can you honestly say Eaton, Mottau (amazing pickup) and the Wiz are not better than those guys and yes, are being given too many minutes exposing their shortcommings? Would you rather give 15-20 min a night to an unproven Hamonic? If so you are blinded by the shininess of a players age and not his true ability like so many people on HFBoards.
Oh, and please those teams that Yashin read? Go back and look at those rosters, they were so lucky to just make the playoffs and are WAY worse than our current lineup, heck even last years, plus the game is so much different since the lockout.
In my opinion again there is no comparison, this team right now is where we need to be (unfortunately).
Let's fill the old barn, get behind our boys, and win some ****ing games!
I agree with you this is not a great team, especially with all the injuries.
But I don't think they are as bad as they have been these last few games(DP has helped us look worse). I also don't think they are as good as they looked in the first 6 or so games. They are likely somewhere in between.
I agree, but wither way its a lottery team IMO. When you depend on a 20 yr old and 21 yr old to be your "go to" guys with NO veteran help up front, you are setting yourself up for disaster.
And this whole DP thing is a joke too. He is clearly not ready to play in the NHL. He needs time in the AHL. This seems to be like a conditioning stint for him.
I agree with you this is not a great team, especially with all the injuries.
But I don't think they are as bad as they have been these last few games(DP has helped us look worse). I also don't think they are as good as they looked in the first 6 or so games. They are likely somewhere in between.
I think they will be a bottom 5 team this year if not the bottom 5 they will be in the bottom 10 not making the playoffs, is there really a big difference?
I think they will be a bottom 5 team this year if not the bottom 5 they will be in the bottom 10 not making the playoffs, is there really a big difference?
Again as part of a young core, I personally don't think it matters at this stage, wins = confidence and notice from other players looking to possibly hop on (your main argument against Snow if I remember), loosing and finishing in the bottom means draft picks, which when we already have a young, talented core, don't hurt.
I agree, but wither way its a lottery team IMO. When you depend on a 20 yr old and 21 yr old to be your "go to" guys with NO veteran help up front, you are setting yourself up for disaster.
And this whole DP thing is a joke too. He is clearly not ready to play in the NHL. He needs time in the AHL. This seems to be like a conditioning stint for him.
They do have a good shot at being a lottery team I will agree. There is still is a ton of season left however, we just have no clue how things will play out.
Also agree on DP, I have said multiple times he needs to be sent down to the AHL. He is only helping us gain a higher pick.
I think when you have a team like we have right now and we lost the players we lost we almost can use it as an excuse to an extent. We saw through the first 3 games what this team, and more importantly, this system is capable of. This is a TEAM and we need to get back into sync, it's only what 12 games into the season? We need to get back to solid 5-on-5 play and quick starts, PERIOD.
Have some faith and root them on for the good things we have seen thus far, thanks to Snow and Gordon collectively:
- The tweaked forecheck system (moving to a 3-2 system).
- The face-off percentage (8th in the league at 51.7%).
- Our PP percentage (8th in the league at 22.4% thanks to finally switching to an Umbrella PP, when have we not been in the bottom of the league here, not anytime in the last 5 years I reckon) .
- Our PK (17th, probably higher after tonight, at 82.7%).
Start judging this team in December after Okposo comes back, talk to me in February and March when we have massive stretches playing at home and our number one defenseman back. Hell look that's like two giant off-season moves right there!
Yes I agree, DiPietro is being forced to play due to the pressure from Wang, it's so clear, but really how else is he supposed to be tested legitimacy and gain ANY confidence? I am a goaltender, practice does nothing but help movement and tweak/clean up your style, the AHL will pepper him with low-quality chances, he needs NHL quality shots and I agree right now he is NOT an NHL caliber goaltender, but again, as fans and as ONE of MANY bright faces of our franchise we must ROOT HIM ON, not bury him (full disclosure I have a soft spot for Rick as I got to play hockey with him a couple of times in his college days through a mutual friend and have been a fan and supporter of his before he was drafted by the Isles).
Gervais is garbage, he is not an NHL player and should be waived or traded (I'm sure Snow is considering both options), possibly neither is Hillen, but playing them is better than calling up Reese and Kohn is it not? Can you honestly say Eaton, Mottau (amazing pickup) and the Wiz are not better than those guys and yes, are being given too many minutes exposing their shortcommings? Would you rather give 15-20 min a night to an unproven Hamonic? If so you are blinded by the shininess of a players age and not his true ability like so many people on HFBoards.
Oh, and please those teams that Yashin read? Go back and look at those rosters, they were so lucky to just make the playoffs and are WAY worse than our current lineup, heck even last years, plus the game is so much different since the lockout.
In my opinion again there is no comparison, this team right now is where we need to be (unfortunately).
Let's fill the old barn, get behind our boys, and win some ****ing games!
I would love for the team to be doing well and have my **** smelling like roses but, neither is happening right now. I respect what you have to say and I do agree that the injuries have killed this team and DP has been horrible. But, this is Snow's roster and Snow's coach so he is ultimately responsible for another bottom 10 or bottom 5 finish.
Mottau was a pickup and is serviceable and that is it. Yes, he is better than Gervais and Hillen but, he is far from an amazing pickup. Wiz is similar to MAB, the major difference is that Wiz is willing to make a hit. I do not want to see Hamonic on this team this year for any more than 3-4 games. Snow and company need to learn the NHL is not a development league (Bailey). It looks like the learned that after making the Bailey mistake and send Nino down. The problem is we can not afford or accept mistakes by our GM/ team anymore enough is enough.
The Yashin led teams had much more talent than the current squad. His last year they had 5 guys with over 20 goals, 4 if you do not count Smyth. DP was also an NHL goalie at that point and not the 3rd stringer he is now. Last season we had 2 players hit 20 goals.
Last edited by Hip Of Rick: 11-03-2010 at 09:21 PM.
Reason: Looked at Yashin Rosters
The Coliseum is going to have about 5k in the stands by Thanksgiving at this rate...at least if they score the "na na na"s can sound like the building is full.
He had zero prospects, crapy building, and a self imposed salary cap.
Since he has taken over the Islanders he has restocked the prospect pool and has made some good moves, trades and free agency. Any idiot knew to take Tavares, but he did have a (so far) great 2008 draft where everyone was killing him for passing of Filitov.
No GM would be able to bring any top player here as the team was after the 2006-2007 season. The team had nothing.
Any other GM would have started a rebuild that took similar teams like LA, Chicago and Pittsburgh 5 years. We are only in year 3 of the official rebuild. Sadly we must give 2 more years to sound the failure alarm.
At least we have some very interesting prospects that we can root on when the team is no longer at the NVMC after 2014-2015.
I understand Snow has a tough job and this is not the team that he intended to have out there this year, but injuries happen to every team so we can't use that as an excuse, Rags are minus Gabby right now and they keep chugging along. The problem is Snows seasons all look too familiar for me
This teams rebuild is too young to replace the production of our best wing and best defenseman. We still have too many AHL calibre players (PAP, Comeau, Schremp) that need to be pushed out before this team will be serious. Better times are ahead.
I don't think it's Snow's fault that big free agents like Dan Hamhuis or Paul Martin don't want to play for Long Island. It's not like he didn't offer or fail to make the calls.
Last years AHL defense had nothing to do with Snow. It is just injuries. It's something unfortunate that all teams have to deal with, of course the Islanders way more than any other team. I just wouldn't be so quick to blame him for things out of his control. I also think it's a little too early to panic.
Let's just see how the rest of the season plays out.
I hate bringing Yashin into this but it is so true that he hasnt been replaced since he has left. But remember, If Yashin didnt leave there was no way Tavares, Bailey, or Neiterater are Isles. The Isles would prob be a 10-15 draft pick instead of a 1-5 pick. Which would mean that the isles would be behind in top prospects. Some of you people on this board have no clue how hard it is to have your best player and should be captain Mark Striet out. If everyone is healthy at this time next season and we look like this, I would be worried. But I know we would be fine if Striet was playing.
It's far to early to call for snows head, we all knew we were going to be in for a long rebuild, we have stuck with it for 3 years now, and its going to take another 2-3 years before we should be completely out of it and ready to compete. Snow has made some good moves in bringing in Moulson and Streit, he has drafted relatively well, and he has made a couple of decent trades.
The biggest problem with this organization is the building they play in, why would a free agent want to come to the islanders when they don't know if the organization will be here in 5 years?, or that they are playing in a dump of an arena. It's sad to see that every other local sports team has gotten a new arena, is getting a new arena, or is undergoing massive renovations to their current arenas. The Islanders need a new arena to lure in free agents and spend money.
It also doesn't help the fact that Streit, Okposo, Macdonald, and a few other important pieces have been injured. Also that DP has being playing like crap.
honestly....this is the year snow would have looked like a true genius if it wasnt for streit and okposo and others going down...a team like ours that is thin with talent lose its 2 most valuable players are not going to be extremely succesful....i mean were not the penguins or the captials where we lose one star and we have another to step in and take over the team...coming into the season we were a balanced team and guys were poised to breakout...if injuries didnt occur, i think we would have made the playoffs and snow would have looked like a genius but who knows were only what 12 games into the season...anything can happen...wayy too early for this thread...snow and gordon are good in my book
What panic? This team will end up bottom 5 again. This is Snow's mess.
Yea, snow shouldve know that streit & okposo would miss huge portions of the season. Two of the leaders and, not to mention, most talented players on this team haven't even seen the ice and probably won't for some time still. You think the isles wouldn't be substantially better with okposo over someone like parenteau? Streit over gervais? And rolly over dp more nights than not.
They are much worse team with DP in net, they play like they have no confidence in him whatsoever. Him giving up soft goals etc. is killer for this team, i just don't see what the solution is to DP and he 10+ yrs left on the contract. I guarantee this will be a better team tomorrow night with Roloson in goal.
This isn't just because of a losing streak-I've been saying this for years now (and yes I can provide links to previous posts to prove it). I'm not a chicken little-I'm a realist.
When a team is sucking this badly, for this long-something's got to give. People have to wake up that management's incompetent-and the responsibility ultimately is on Snow's shoulders. That's the bottom line.
Oh and didn't the Penguins overcome a crappy team, and even crappier arena recently and win a cup? Oh yeah they did-sorry folks those are just excuses. No the NVMC doesn't help, and neither does the high NY state income tax (which I think is a much bigger, and underrated challenge the Isles face when singing players). But what did Snow think he was signing up for?
The saddest thing is how predictable these threads popping up are.
Don't go to games if you don't want to support the team while they're laying stinkers. (Which should be easy when they're away.) I wouldn't blame anyone for doing that. But are we really going to "gain accountability" by *****ing about this on a message board?
Fire Snow, now? Give me a ****ing break. When we were 4-1-2 some would have been all: "GIVE THIS MAN AN EXTENSION, NOW!!!"
Of course, we could also have the same debate with Gordon.
This team is missing its best all-around forward and #1 d-man.
We've continued to lose important players.
This team's best players are still relatively inexperienced.
We're playing DiPietro to find out whether or not he can actually become a real NHL goaltender. So far, it's not looking good (and that's being kind.) That said, like it or not, this team can't simply "buy out the contract." You can't just say **** like that and not think of the ramifications.
Sure, drop $30 million over 20 years and place a $1.5 million cap hit burden until the end of time. Let's just assume that the team will never be spending up to the cap and continue to manage as nearsighted as possible. There's going to be some tough love for DiPietro. DiPi's current play cannot continue, and everyone in the organization knows it. A decision will be made. Getting enough information to make that decision would be prudent. Painful in the near term? Yes. Important in the long term? Yes.
You know what I'm sick of? Management and fans that make knee-jerk reactions. Seriously, didn't anyone learn anything from the Milbury years? The team is still on the right track. I can fully understand why some would not wish to wait any longer. Everyone is free to go.
Everyone is free to write a letter, boycott, stand outside the Coliseum with signs. Some may see that the reasons for our failures have been different at different times. Frustrating? Yes. A reason to jump ship? Reasonably so. A reason to stick around and ***** about it endlessly, without differentiating or being logical about what's going on? Sure, if that's the kind of person you plan on being, but you won't be getting any praise from me for the crusade.
It's a long season. Take a deep breath. How can anyone reasonably predict what this current Islanders team is? Are they the team that has sucked it up the past several games? Are they the team that busted their ***** off through the first several games?
Jesus Mother ****ing Sample Size. I could ***** about how we're doing things on the ice. I could ***** about breaking up lines that work or having two centers for offensive zone draws. I can tell you how frustrated I am about now having to mute Butch like I've always muted Chico on the Dev's broadcasts.
But, seriously, does anyone really want to listen to that ****? I didn't think so. I mean, at least the "two centers thing" would start a hockey discussion, but we're stuck with Butch for the season, and Gordon has at least appeared to learn from some of his mistakes. I can give it a bit of time. I mean, after all, what else can I do? Typing this out is about as much time as I'd like to waste on the things that are out of my control.
I'm hoping this thread is therapeutic. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of energy. Hopefully, someone will appreciate that I threw some of my own energy into the hat. A slight show of solidarity in a thread that I could just have easily ignored. In return, I'd hope some will be able to show a little more patience with the current season.
The saddest thing is how predictable these threads popping up are.
Don't go to games if you don't want to support the team while they're laying stinkers. (Which should be easy when they're away.) I wouldn't blame anyone for doing that. But are we really going to "gain accountability" by *****ing about this on a message board?
Fire Snow, now? Give me a ****ing break. When we were 4-1-2 some would have been all: "GIVE THIS MAN AN EXTENSION, NOW!!!"
Of course, we could also have the same debate with Gordon.
This team is missing its best all-around forward and #1 d-man.
We've continued to lose important players.
This team's best players are still relatively inexperienced.
We're playing DiPietro to find out whether or not he can actually become a real NHL goaltender. So far, it's not looking good (and that's being kind.) That said, like it or not, this team can't simply "buy out the contract." You can't just say **** like that and not think of the ramifications.
Sure, drop $30 million over 20 years and place a $1.5 million cap hit burden until the end of time. Let's just assume that the team will never be spending up to the cap and continue to manage as nearsighted as possible. There's going to be some tough love for DiPietro. DiPi's current play cannot continue, and everyone in the organization knows it. A decision will be made. Getting enough information to make that decision would be prudent. Painful in the near term? Yes. Important in the long term? Yes.
You know what I'm sick of? Management and fans that make knee-jerk reactions. Seriously, didn't anyone learn anything from the Milbury years? The team is still on the right track. I can fully understand why some would not wish to wait any longer. Everyone is free to go.
Everyone is free to write a letter, boycott, stand outside the Coliseum with signs. Some may see that the reasons for our failures have been different at different times. Frustrating? Yes. A reason to jump ship? Reasonably so. A reason to stick around and ***** about it endlessly, without differentiating or being logical about what's going on? Sure, if that's the kind of person you plan on being, but you won't be getting any praise from me for the crusade.
It's a long season. Take a deep breath. How can anyone reasonably predict what this current Islanders team is? Are they the team that has sucked it up the past several games? Are they the team that busted their ***** off through the first several games?
Jesus Mother ****ing Sample Size. I could ***** about how we're doing things on the ice. I could ***** about breaking up lines that work or having two centers for offensive zone draws. I can tell you how frustrated I am about now having to mute Butch like I've always muted Chico on the Dev's broadcasts.
But, seriously, does anyone really want to listen to that ****? I didn't think so. I mean, at least the "two centers thing" would start a hockey discussion, but we're stuck with Butch for the season, and Gordon has at least appeared to learn from some of his mistakes. I can give it a bit of time. I mean, after all, what else can I do? Typing this out is about as much time as I'd like to waste on the things that are out of my control.
I'm hoping this thread is therapeutic. Otherwise, it's a complete waste of energy. Hopefully, someone will appreciate that I threw some of my own energy into the hat. A slight show of solidarity in a thread that I could just have easily ignored. In return, I'd hope some will be able to show a little more patience with the current season.
,
Mitch
And you are free not to come into this thread, when you fully know what it's going to be about. Also yes I do know how this team will be at the end of the season: out of the playoffs, and at least 12th seed.
And you are free not to come into this thread, when you fully know what it's going to be about. Also yes I do know how this team will be at the end of the season: out of the playoffs, and at least 12th seed.
Correct, I am free to come in here, or not. I chose to say my piece. You're more than welcome to your prediction.
Forgive others of us who may wish to see a greater sample size. Edit - And not for nothing, your statement of my freedoms is not what gives me those freedoms. (Just as my suggestions don't take away the freedoms of others. Simply, it's my feelings on the subject.)
,
