I'm confused about what the 2 posters above me want. It sounds like you want more than half the roster traded off and to be a playoff team next season or else Snow has done a bad job. I don't see how both of those things can be accomplished. What should the roster resemble roughly. For instance:
Snow has done a terrible job. You can not sit on your hands and hope these guys turn into something they are not forever. It seems like the 2 big UFAs will not be back so they must be moved. The other UFAS are complete garbage and should be moved if possible and if not they should not be resigned. As for Bailey, Okposo, and Grabner the team needs a change in culture and they should be packaged with prospects picks or other roster players to bring back other roster players that fit the team better. I am not saying "Milbury" the team but this group does NOT work and moves must be made.
I'm confused about what the 2 posters above me want. It sounds like you want more than half the roster traded off and to be a playoff team next season or else Snow has done a bad job. I don't see how both of those things can be accomplished. What should the roster resemble roughly. For instance:
Moulson - JT - Top 6 Winger
Top 6 winger - Nielsen - Top 6 winger
Ullstrom - Cizikas - Martin
Nino - 4th line C - Petrov
??
What I want is for Snow to do his job like a competent NHL GM. He's had a free pass because of the rebuild, but this is the time when other rebuilds of similar length (St. Louis is a good example) start to show results. This season, we are a lottery team again and we'll be staring at Kelly Gwydir's face at the Draft Lottery show.
This is the critical point of the rebuild and it's up to Snow to make strides of ending it.
Oh yeah, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Hip of Rick
Snow has done a terrible job. You can not sit on your hands and hope these guys turn into something they are not forever. It seems like the 2 big UFAs will not be back so they must be moved. The other UFAS are complete garbage and should be moved if possible and if not they should not be resigned. As for Bailey, Okposo, and Grabner the team needs a change in culture and they should be packaged with prospects picks or other roster players to bring back other roster players that fit the team better. I am not saying "Milbury" the team but this group does NOT work and moves must be made.
We know this management team will not bring in high priced FA's, so what you're proposing is trading everyone off and starting with 19-20 year old kids again filled in with Guerin's, Weight's, and Rolston's? That's going backwards.
We need to be patient with some of the players we have here and try to develop them as opposed to acting hastily. I'm not claiming that the team doesn't need a shake up or that we shouldn't trade off PA and Nabby, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water here.
There is no way in hell this organization could afford to rid itself of KO, Bailey, and Grabner. Maybe one, and for a fair price, but change for the sake of change is not the answer here.
What I want is for Snow to do his job like a competent NHL GM. He's had a free pass because of the rebuild, but this is the time when other rebuilds of similar length (St. Louis is a good example) start to show results. This season, we are a lottery team again and we'll be staring at Kelly Gwydir's face at the Draft Lottery show.
This is the critical point of the rebuild and it's up to Snow to make strides of ending it.
Oh yeah, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Hip of Rick
We know this management team will not bring in high priced FA's, so what you're proposing is trading everyone off and starting with 19-20 year old kids again filled in with Guerin's, Weight's, and Rolston's? That's going backwards.
We need to be patient with some of the players we have here and try to develop them as opposed to acting hastily. I'm not claiming that the team doesn't need a shake up or that we shouldn't trade off PA and Nabby, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water here.
There is no way in hell this organization could afford to rid itself of KO, Bailey, and Grabner. Maybe one, and for a fair price, but change for the sake of change is not the answer here.
Not saying we need to deal all three. One or two of them could be dealt and we should aim for NHL players that can step in a play today. Whether a deal is made tomorrow, draft day, or sometime before next season something needs to be done. The current "core" forwards are all far too similar to one another, in a bad way. They are all non-physical finesse players who do not put up the offense for that type of style. At the end of the day Bailey, Okposo, Grabner, and Neilson are all the same type of player. While they all have strengths and weaknesses they bring that similar small style hockey to the top 6.
Ideally Okposo and Neilson would play 3rd line and we would sign UFAs to play in the top 6, that won't happen. Instead we need to make a package up and try to grab a top 6 guy or top 4 dman.
What I want is for Snow to do his job like a competent NHL GM. He's had a free pass because of the rebuild, but this is the time when other rebuilds of similar length (St. Louis is a good example) start to show results. This season, we are a lottery team again and we'll be staring at Kelly Gwydir's face at the Draft Lottery show.
This is the critical point of the rebuild and it's up to Snow to make strides of ending it.
Oh yeah, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Hip of Rick
So I'm trying to understand what you're proposing he do? Because in your last post, it was a mixture of get rid of everyone but at the same time make strides and be a playoff team next year. That doesn't seem plausible, IMO.
Are you saying, you don't care what he does, as long as the team makes the playoffs next year? That to me makes more sense, because Snow is the GM here, not us. So if he can't figure it by his 6th(?) season than he'll never figure it out (not saying I necessarily agree with that statement but I'd understand it).
To me all this stuff really stems at Wang and until there's new ownership it won't matter who the GM is, who the HC is, who's playing on the 1st line, who's in net..etc because there is no clear focus and leadership from the top and that sentiment very easily trickles down.
Not saying we need to deal all three. One or two of them could be dealt and we should aim for NHL players that can step in a play today. Whether a deal is made tomorrow, draft day, or sometime before next season something needs to be done. The current "core" forwards are all far too similar to one another, in a bad way. They are all non-physical finesse players who do not put up the offense for that type of style. At the end of the day Bailey, Okposo, Grabner, and Neilson are all the same type of player. While they all have strengths and weaknesses they bring that similar small style hockey to the top 6.
Ideally Okposo and Neilson would play 3rd line and we would sign UFAs to play in the top 6, that won't happen. Instead we need to make a package up and try to grab a top 6 guy or top 4 dman.
Got ya, that's fair enough. Even though I think we'd both be surprised of things unfolding like this where we liked the results.
So I'm trying to understand what you're proposing he do? Because in your last post, it was a mixture of get rid of everyone but at the same time make strides and be a playoff team next year. That doesn't seem plausible, IMO.
Are you saying, you don't care what he does, as long as the team makes the playoffs next year? That to me makes more sense, because Snow is the GM here, not us. So if he can't figure it by his 6th(?) season than he'll never figure it out (not saying I necessarily agree with that statement but I'd understand it).
To me all this stuff really stems at Wang and until there's new ownership it won't matter who the GM is, who the HC is, who's playing on the 1st line, who's in net..etc because there is no clear focus and leadership from the top and that sentiment very easily trickles down.
I'm a bit emotional tonight and I'll probably come to my senses tomorrow because I'm normally A LOT more conservative than the Hipster. I'm not saying 'blow it all to bits'. Parenteau and Nabby need to be traded. I want a young defenseman in return. If it's for more picks, they better be 1st or early 2nd rounders or I'll be really unhappy. Additional high round picks will just give Snow more ammunition to pull off any deal at the Draft. This organization doesn't need any more draft picks. Our own 1st rounder is going to be a lottery pick so we should get a really good prospect right there. If Snow decides to trade the pick, the return better be SUBSTANTIAL. Other than that, I'm ok with the rest of the roster and I doubt anyone other than the other UFA's will be dealt. If there are any inquiries about Grabner, Okposo, Bailey, Streit, etc. then Snow better seriously listen.
In any case, there should be a lot of roster turnover because I don't think any of the current UFA's will be back next season. Snow better not replace them with a new set of geriatrics. I'm also not saying play all the kids either. The optimist in me says this team is a couple of players away from making real noise. A real 2nd line center, a 1st line winger, and a top-4 d-man would do wonders for this team and Snow has the resources to get it done IMO. Of course, the goalie situation needs to be resolved once and for all.
If Snow does nothing before the deadline-it will be a step back for this team-not a step forward. PAP will probably not resign-and there's no way Nabby's resigning. Get some value for them now. Maybe package them with Bailey and see what he can get.
There's only so long they can expect to be in a "rebuild" (I don't call it a rebuild-as they're not rebuilding from anything-but that's a given). They don't last forever. It's the time where Snow has to look for key components. If the Isles don't get a top-4 D (or two) for next year, plus 1-2 top 6 forwards-this team will be another lotto team.
Think about everyone. 8/15 teams make the playoffs. And that's our current goals? Playoffs? That's not good enough in the long-run. I don't expect to be a contender overnight-but I do expect to see some progress after 5 years (and having nice prospects is fine-but as long as they're a lotto pick-they're not progressing. Period).
I have full faith in Garth Snow and Charles Wang. Sure, they'll never anything and Tavares will never see the playoffs, but I have faith Snow and Wang will keep their jobs.
If Snow does nothing before the deadline-it will be a step back for this team-not a step forward. PAP will probably not resign-and there's no way Nabby's resigning. Get some value for them now. Maybe package them with Bailey and see what he can get.
There's only so long they can expect to be in a "rebuild" (I don't call it a rebuild-as they're not rebuilding from anything-but that's a given). They don't last forever. It's the time where Snow has to look for key components. If the Isles don't get a top-4 D (or two) for next year, plus 1-2 top 6 forwards-this team will be another lotto team.
Think about everyone. 8/15 teams make the playoffs. And that's our current goals? Playoffs? That's not good enough in the long-run. I don't expect to be a contender overnight-but I do expect to see some progress after 5 years (and having nice prospects is fine-but as long as they're a lotto pick-they're not progressing. Period).
this is a tough one. Your post makes sense, yet it also doesn't.
Just because Nabokov and Parenteau can become UFAs in July, doesn't mean the NYI should deal them. They still have four months to negotiate with them - they can still sign them, at a price. Even though they're out of the playoffs (or so it seems) it doesn't mean they should trade all their assets.
Bigger point is that the Isles cannot show progress if the very players that have become effective NHLers are continually dealt away for "futures".
Say they move PAP for a #1 pick and Nabokov for a #1 pick.
So now you trade, arguably, the 2nd and 3rd best players on the team this year for maybe two players than can help you 3-4 years from now.
How is that progress?
Add to that, the inability to add players via UFA, the fact that Wang won't spend above the cap floor, the arena, yada yada and this team cannot progress.
They have to be able to develop and retain players - period.
If they can retain Eaton, Mottau, Jurcina, Staios, Pandolfo - WHO CARES. These are fringe NHL/AHL players, they don't make you better, they are expendable.
I'm not sure Parenteau and Nabokov are that replaceable.
Not saying they should sign them at any price, but I also don't think dealing them is necessarily the best thing either.
Not saying we need to deal all three. One or two of them could be dealt and we should aim for NHL players that can step in a play today. Whether a deal is made tomorrow, draft day, or sometime before next season something needs to be done. The current "core" forwards are all far too similar to one another, in a bad way. They are all non-physical finesse players who do not put up the offense for that type of style. At the end of the day Bailey, Okposo, Grabner, and Neilson are all the same type of player. While they all have strengths and weaknesses they bring that similar small style hockey to the top 6.
Ideally Okposo and Neilson would play 3rd line and we would sign UFAs to play in the top 6, that won't happen. Instead we need to make a package up and try to grab a top 6 guy or top 4 dman.
perhaps bringing in a good assistant for cappy or replacing yaba-daba-doooh altogether might be another plausible strategy. If he cant work out the kinks in the kids we have, perhaps someone else can?
Generally trading someone when they suck is a bad strategy. Low return...So please trade pa before he goes back to standard mode...
Snow has a chance today to prove he is a real GM but guess what he will sit on his hands and do nothing like always. A real GM would sign or trade Parenteau today. Snow will do neither. You cant take the chance of Parenteau walking on July 1. Same rules apply with Nabby. (WE CANT WIN WITH WANG-SNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Before the Snow bashing begins about his Trade Deadline job, let's wait until the dust settles and have tangible proof of what he did/didn't do. 2 1/2 hours in deadline land is an eternity.
Snow has a chance today to prove he is a real GM but guess what he will sit on his hands and do nothing like always. A real GM would sign or trade Parenteau today. Snow will do neither. You cant take the chance of Parenteau walking on July 1. Same rules apply with Nabby. (WE CANT WIN WITH WANG-SNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
???
Nothing he can do today to erase the 5 years of cap floor maintenance project he and Wang are trying to pas off as a rebuild.
Overall the deadline was 100% failure if we fail to re-sign PAP and Nabby. Getting rid of Rolston and Mottau is fun but it was meaningless. Snow once again too afraid to make a move.
Overall the deadline was 100% failure if we fail to re-sign PAP and Nabby. Getting rid of Rolston and Mottau is fun but it was meaningless. Snow once again too afraid to make a move.
To complete a deal, there are two sides (Free agency and Trades).
According to Kyper, the Nabby deal should be done as early as this week. It takes time.
Parenteau is asking for 4 years. I don't know, as a fan, if I would like that.
Overall the deadline was 100% failure if we fail to re-sign PAP and Nabby. Getting rid of Rolston and Mottau is fun but it was meaningless. Snow once again too afraid to make a move.
That's the million dollar question. If they both walk for nothing on July 1st, then I'll completely agree with you.
I hope the reports are true that Nabby's extension will be worked out in the coming days. He gives us a chance to win when he's between the pipes and I love his old school style. It brings me back.
As for Paps, I'm initially disappointed with the lack of 'closure' with his contract situation. As I think more of it and have calmed down, things could work out before July 1st. I think it's premature to judge the move now.
H gets an incomplete from me, and possible F depending on how June/July shakes out. He now has to sign Nabster and PA. He also has to improve the forward pool and defensive pool with what we have to work with.
Personally I think he screwed up bad by trying to hold out too much for better returns. All we accomplish now is stealing a few more games w/ Nabster in net, which will screw up our draft position, and watch PA go someplace else with no return for him.
