He could have done A LOT more to cut costs yesterday if those were indeed his orders.
A lot more...
We unfortunately are looking at simple inefficiency.
You're really on the warpath Chapin. I can't say I disagree with you as I have very similar beliefs, but I'm trying hard to not fly off the handle. I almost did yesterday, but I've calmed down considerably since.
It's all about expectations really. I had high hopes for yesterday and thus was disappointed - HUGELY disappointed. When you take a step back, it shouldn't have been surprising what went down with Snow's TD history. I am hopeful that Nabby will eventually re-sign, but I think Parenteau is a goner. It's all about the money and we've seen that the Isles just aren't going to spend. Could he have gotten an asset or two by moving PA? Sure, but we will never know what the packages were offered and by whom. I'll reserve my judgement until July 1st when we will get the sought after CLOSURE to this drama. I am having a hard time keeping my composure though.
Let's not forget how everyone around the league was calling Snow an idiot for claiming Nabby last year after he refused to report. In retrospect it was a very good move with no downside. Whatever Nabby brings going forward is just gravy.
It wasn't like there were a ton of blockbusters yesterday, maybe the fish weren't biting. I will reserve judgment.
If Snow didn't get a 1st offer for Pap or a high 2nd for Nabby, then I would rather take the chance to resign them than give them up for lower picks. I don't think that we can replace the quality of either one of them through UFA so I would be willing to take that shot. Another late 2nd or 3rd is not going to speed up any rebuild and noone can say with surety if teams were offering NHL ready Dmen. I hope they sign both. However, if we sign at least Pap for 4.5M for 4 or 5 yrs, I will consider it a success.
Addition by subtraction. If we can get lucky enough to keep both Pap and Nabby then we should be better next year just due to dropping the 4-5 more dead weight contracts we have, as our youth continues to improve and contribute. If (very big if) but 1 or 2 UFAs could make us legit at that point.
Snow do something good in July, the clock is ticking.
If Snow didn't get a 1st offer for Pap or a high 2nd for Nabby, then I would rather take the chance to resign them than give them up for lower picks. I don't think that we can replace the quality of either one of them through UFA so I would be willing to take that shot. Another late 2nd or 3rd is not going to speed up any rebuild and noone can say with surety if teams were offering NHL ready Dmen. I hope they sign both. However, if we sign at least Pap for 4.5M for 4 or 5 yrs, I will consider it a success.
Sounds like Nabby was never on the table. The asking price was high for PAP. My guess was Snow wanted a first round pick and was only being offered second round picks.
I have been an Isles fan for close to 30 years now and I am tired of the current regime's ways....
The last 5 years I have gotten back into being a big Isles fan and I am getting sick of being let down every year, seems like the last 2-3 years I have been really excited about what is coming, but now I don't see any end in sight. I don't think that Wang knows enough to get ris of Snow and Snow doesn't know enough to get this ball rolling in the right direction. I am sick of the same old story, pick up some veterans who are way past there prime and hope they can add something only to be disappointed by what they bring to the table.
In my opinion we need a few top 6 Omen and 2 top Dmen to make the turn. I think we need to bring in a top guy that is also a great character guy to show these great prospects the right things to do and how to play and practice hard every day. We need another Tavares caliber veteran and we will have to spend $$$ to do that.
I love the intenity and drive some of the guys have....Hamonic, Martin, Bailey, JT, and even PAP. And WTF is going on with KO?? I loved the way he used to play, now he doesn't even look like the same player.
Time to make some big moves, first one is getting rid of Snow and then getting Wang to open up the checkbook......time for big changes....it is sad when people don't want to play for a franchise that was known as one of the best for a long time.
I would've taken Cody Hodgson and a pick for PA...
It is early in his career. But just based on potential, the Canucks would have severely over payed for PA in that trade.
The overvaluing it seems happens a lot on these boards. Both Moulson and PA don't crack top 6 on most teams, but here they are considered worth a few 1st rounders or a high prospect and a 1st.
If Snow was actually expecting to get back a highly rated prospect and a 1st round pick for PA, then we need to step in and have an intervention. Snow's crack problem was worse then I thought.
This is Snows 4th season as GM and he has accomplished absolutely nothing in his tenure. In his first season, with a roster that was not his he was able to make the playoffs, while trading for Ryan Smyth. That may have been his best moment, BUT after trading for Smyth to go for a playoff run he attempted to trade his 40 goal guy which makes no sense. That offseason he went on to buy out Yashin, our best player in an attempt to sign Smyth and failed. Say what you want about Yashin he was the best player the team had for awhile and since he has left the team has been in the bottom 5, is that a coincidence?
Since than we have only heard the "re-build". Year 1 of the re-build he rushed Bailey into the league when he clearly was not ready, and it has showed the past 2 plus seasons. Snow managed to finish in 30th place which is unacceptable while never getting an NHL quality goalie for the entire year so we had Denis and Mac.
Last season the Isles looked horrible and iced an AHL quality defense the entire season. The season was a mess, and the Isles looked awful. This year he managed to only bring in PAP on offense and brought in an offensive dman in Wiz, so he failed yet again to address the teams needs
The guy has accomplished zero its time to hold him accountable for the team we see today. Prospects look nice and he has stocked up some good looking ones but that is meaningless for this season, and finishing last every season should lead to a nice pool of prospects. Finally, he was the GM for the 15 year deal, if he had balls/was a good GM he steps in and tells Wang its a no go.
One or two of my facts may be wrong, but unfortunately Wang can not be fired so Snow is next in line.
Honestly....now....how long do you think it would take a GM to Undo the Mess Milbury left this team in???
If Nabby was healthy and in the net most of the season...The Isles would most likely be in the playoffs....
The distraction of DP.....and injury once again ....has hurt this team....
If Nabby and PA signs.....which I believe they will....and we add a solid Dman.....and one or 2 forwards.....
It could be very interesting next year.....Give it a little time...players like JT and Hamonic are not even 22 yrs old yet.......
It will happen...the fact it is moving at this slow pace...is the drag of the MIlbury effect......
I would've taken Cody Hodgson and a pick for PA...
So would Snow. The whole point is that Snow never got an offer he was happy with for PAP and that was quite obvious early in the day. Reports coming out of LI said quite early on that they did not expect him to be moved and so I guess other GMs final offer simply weren't good enough.
So why keep him? Simple
1. Garth has to keep his team fairly competitive for the sake of the paying customer
2. Garth has to keep his team fairly competitive for the sake of the other players
3. Garth still believes they can reach the playoffs (fat chance!!) and they are not tanking yet.
4. Garth believes his best chance of keeping both PAP and Nabby lies in showing faith in them by not trading them. He shows that he actually wants them on this team instead of trading them for whatever peanuts he was offered.
As stupid as it may sound, but Snow actually made the Islanders a little better yesterday by getting rid of Mottau and Rolston and calling up Cizikas and Ullström to the big club a few days ago. He also improved Bridgeport's depth a little in the process.
Could he have done more yesterday? Sure, but if he'd traded away every UFA for low picks those guys would've been replaced by Bridgeports guys. Subsequently Bports push for the playoffs and fantastic record would suffer and they could miss out on the playoffs too along with the Isles! Now, if the Isles aren't making the post season, then having Bport do so is better than none of them!
Garth Snow has done a very solid job and under no circumstances should he be fired. How many GM's could've acquired 4 star players off the scrapheap? Moulson, Grabner, Parentau and Nabokov. - True Bailey was rushed but the Isles were in a terrible situation then- Milbury had left the Organization completely baron and we needed someone to be the face of our rebuilding project. Bailey had a very good training camp and looked great in the first 9 games-before we made the decision to keep him- Cizikas, Strome, Nino, B.Nelson, Mayfield, Donavan, Anders Lee, DeHaan & Poulin are a big part of the Franchise and by next year most of those prospects will be ready to contribute. We have some major building blocks already in place Tavares, Moulson, Okposo, Amac, Hamonic, Nabokov, Martin, Parentau & Streit. If you factor in having the worse 9th, 10th, 11th & 12th Forwards in the NHL(easily replaceable) Only 1 bad contract(DiPietro)- it is very easy to see how this team can be a middle of the road playoff team w/ some very minor signings/acquisitions in the offseason.
Garth Snow has done a very solid job and under no circumstances should he be fired. How many GM's could've acquired 4 star players off the scrapheap? Moulson, Grabner, Parentau and Nabokov. - True Bailey was rushed but the Isles were in a terrible situation then- Milbury had left the Organization completely baron and we needed someone to be the face of our rebuilding project. Bailey had a very good training camp and looked great in the first 9 games-before we made the decision to keep him- Cizikas, Strome, Nino, B.Nelson, Mayfield, Donavan, Anders Lee, DeHaan & Poulin are a big part of the Franchise and by next year most of those prospects will be ready to contribute. We have some major building blocks already in place Tavares, Moulson, Okposo, Amac, Hamonic, Nabokov, Martin, Parentau & Streit. If you factor in having the worse 9th, 10th, 11th & 12th Forwards in the NHL(easily replaceable) Only 1 bad contract(DiPietro)- it is very easy to see how this team can be a middle of the road playoff team w/ some very minor signings/acquisitions in the offseason.
Wang has got to get the hell out. Then we can begin to heal.
This is it. If you're arguing about the GM, coach, the players, the arena or anything else but Wang, then you're missing the big pitcure.
Wang is the problem. Period.
Of course everyone knows you cannot fire an owner, so they instead direct their rage towards people who can be fired. A true waste of time.
You think firing Snow is the answer with Wang as owner? Be careful what you wish for because I'd bet my face, literally my face, that the next GM would be Rick DiPietro (In fact that could be the reason he hasn't retired yet).
And you think with DP as GM that we'd spend beyond the cap floor? Or do anytthing else differently than what Snow has been doing?
Instead of going after Capuano, Snow, this player or that player, why don't you take your anger and write Wang a letter about how he's destroying the team you love to death. And before you have your knee-jerk reaction that, "That won't accomplish anything," how much do you think writing on these boards does?
This is it. If you're arguing about the GM, coach, the players, the arena or anything else but Wang, then you're missing the big pitcure.
Wang is the problem. Period.
Of course everyone knows you cannot fire an owner, so they instead direct their rage towards people who can be fired. A true waste of time.
You think firing Snow is the answer with Wang as owner? Be careful what you wish for because I'd bet my face, literally my face, that the next GM would be Rick DiPietro (In fact that could be the reason he hasn't retired yet).
And you think with DP as GM that we'd spend beyond the cap floor? Or do anytthing else differently than what Snow has been doing?
Instead of going after Capuano, Snow, this player or that player, why don't you take your anger and write Wang a letter about how he's destroying the team you love to death. And before you have your knee-jerk reaction that, "That won't accomplish anything," how much do you think writing on these boards does?
Oh good lord! I won't be able to sleep for a week now!!!!
Garth Snow has done a very solid job and under no circumstances should he be fired. How many GM's could've acquired 4 star players off the scrapheap? Moulson, Grabner, Parentau and Nabokov. - True Bailey was rushed but the Isles were in a terrible situation then- Milbury had left the Organization completely baron and we needed someone to be the face of our rebuilding project. Bailey had a very good training camp and looked great in the first 9 games-before we made the decision to keep him- Cizikas, Strome, Nino, B.Nelson, Mayfield, Donavan, Anders Lee, DeHaan & Poulin are a big part of the Franchise and by next year most of those prospects will be ready to contribute. We have some major building blocks already in place Tavares, Moulson, Okposo, Amac, Hamonic, Nabokov, Martin, Parentau & Streit. If you factor in having the worse 9th, 10th, 11th & 12th Forwards in the NHL(easily replaceable) Only 1 bad contract(DiPietro)- it is very easy to see how this team can be a middle of the road playoff team w/ some very minor signings/acquisitions in the offseason.
This is even coming from a Snow supporter - I think he warrants more criticism than that. Enough to get fired when the obvious problem is a cheap owner? NO. Would a near-Arab Spring level full-regime change to someone with deeper pockets help more? ABSOLUTELY.
At the end of the day it's near impossible to rank Snow separate from Wang's cheapness/eccentricities/meddling - that's about as close to "impossible to debate" as it gets. I hate his FA issues, but I really like his drafting. Many people seem to forget that the Islanders have had these problems for probably more than 2 decades - they've been striking out at holding multiple top level talents at the same time since before I was in high school.
Palffy? Drafted. Peca/Yashin? Traded. Who else? Witt, Sopel, Poti, Satan, Sillinger, Simon, Zhitnik. NONE of them were tier-1 FA's - mostly mid-tier-2 or less, all the way down the line. They've been striking out for YEARS. Free agency was poop soup even with Milbury, who made it worse - before the team became Wang's team, who made it worse, who passed it on to Snow, who despite certain flaws, seems to be the first person in the front office to do something....anything right in 17 years by sticking to his guns a bit more and not making a trade for the sake of a trade......yet some people want to assume that '86-ing Snow will magically fix things??? Isn't that akin to what Milbury did to screw us out of enjoying a fair chunk of our lives as hockey fans?
Most GM's wouldn't touch this organization with a 10ft. pole, and we know it. Even though there's 30 of these jobs in the world, there's only one worse-off on PR (sorry, C-Bus) and anyone coming in would have to deal with Wang, would have the same budget restraints as Snow, and most importantly could give up the wrong assets in the rush to shake up the roster, trading out high-end prospects for quick fixes. Jokinen/Luongo for Parrish/Kvasha ring a bell? Two years ago if someone offered us Penner & Voynov for Nilsson & Bailey, some of us (yes, including me) would have called it good. Luckily hindsight's 20/20, because at that point Poulin would have been our next "Defacto Prime Goaltender" and get over-pressured and rushed to assume the role. Thus, the mediocrity cycle begins again.
The North Koreans, for all their political issues, have a concept called "Juche," pretty much translating to sticking to an ideal of self-reliance, no outside dependence. While I agree it isn't always the best way to build a hockey team, if much of the hockey world has been chugging along for the last 20 years shunning you, the sea change often has to begin in that style. Hell, ask the Nashville Predators - outside of Fisher and the "Brothers Kostitsyn," that team carries a "Made in Tennessee" stamp nearly from head to toe. (although you could say "Designed in Europe & Canada, assembled in TN if you want to nit pick. )
Back to the point......Snow deserves his share of criticism, and if he left in a full regime change, he'd be the name I'd be making people sick with occasionally after 4 years when this team IS the Nashville/St. Louis of the EC, just for those who try to forget who the Isles' Big Kahuna was for the roster design and draft decisions that gave the team such talent. Could he do a better job? Absolutely. How much of that job quality gets distorted by the conduct/league perception of the owner and the 13 years of fail that preceded him? Almost all of it, except for the draft....which ironically, is about the ONLY thing Snow seems to have autonomy on. Go figure.
This is it. If you're arguing about the GM, coach, the players, the arena or anything else but Wang, then you're missing the big pitcure.
Wang is the problem. Period.
Of course everyone knows you cannot fire an owner, so they instead direct their rage towards people who can be fired. A true waste of time.
You think firing Snow is the answer with Wang as owner? Be careful what you wish for because I'd bet my face, literally my face, that the next GM would be Rick DiPietro (In fact that could be the reason he hasn't retired yet).
And you think with DP as GM that we'd spend beyond the cap floor? Or do anytthing else differently than what Snow has been doing?
Instead of going after Capuano, Snow, this player or that player, why don't you take your anger and write Wang a letter about how he's destroying the team you love to death. And before you have your knee-jerk reaction that, "That won't accomplish anything," how much do you think writing on these boards does?
It would not surprise me in the least if that is what happened. I think it's pretty much a given that if Rick retires/is bought out he's going to remain in the organization in some capacity. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he already talks with Wang and Snow right now about hockey issues. As much as I dislike Snow, nothing will change at all as long as Wang as in charge.
Wow, Arthur Staple was on the pre game and Did I just hear there were calls to Snow for Marty Reasoner,Mark Eaton, Steve Staios and Jurchina? There were teams willing to take our trash and this clown Snow decides to keep them because he thinks we have a chance because we are only 8 pts out of a playoff spot. WOW, If he actually thinks we have a shot and there were calls for garbage guys like Reasoner, Eaton ect and he did not move them he is even more inept then I ever thought. We are doomed with Snow. We had teams willing to give us something for our trash and Snow sits on his a**.
Wow, Arthur Staple was on the pre game and Did I just hear there were calls to Snow for Marty Reasoner,Mark Eaton, Steve Staios and Jurchina? There were teams willing to take our trash and this clown Snow decides to keep them because he thinks we have a chance because we are only 8 pts out of a playoff spot. WOW, If he actually thinks we have a shot and there were calls for garbage guys like Reasoner, Eaton ect and he did not move them he is even more inept then I ever thought. We are doomed with Snow. We had teams willing to give us something for our trash and Snow sits on his a**.
I love how everyone wants to trade away every player but at the same time complain when prospects get rushed. You can't have it both ways.
Garth Snow has done a very solid job and under no circumstances should he be fired. How many GM's could've acquired 4 star players off the scrapheap? Moulson, Grabner, Parentau and Nabokov. - True Bailey was rushed but the Isles were in a terrible situation then- Milbury had left the Organization completely baron and we needed someone to be the face of our rebuilding project. Bailey had a very good training camp and looked great in the first 9 games-before we made the decision to keep him- Cizikas, Strome, Nino, B.Nelson, Mayfield, Donavan, Anders Lee, DeHaan & Poulin are a big part of the Franchise and by next year most of those prospects will be ready to contribute. We have some major building blocks already in place Tavares, Moulson, Okposo, Amac, Hamonic, Nabokov, Martin, Parentau & Streit. If you factor in having the worse 9th, 10th, 11th & 12th Forwards in the NHL(easily replaceable) Only 1 bad contract(DiPietro)- it is very easy to see how this team can be a middle of the road playoff team w/ some very minor signings/acquisitions in the offseason.
Just because Snow picked up players off the waiver wire and they've panned out doesn't make him a good GM. Right off the bat it shows that the Isles were next to last in the league when picking up these players. It shows that he's taking the easy way out of filling his roster and his inability to develop and sign players.
Had Snow passed on those players, you don't know who would have picked them up. As far as signings, he looks for old veteran players who are pretty much desperate for a deal.
I still stand by my thought that without JT, Moulson and PA wouldn't be the players they are today. This so called rebuild was supposed to be over, guess what... It's not. He over values his players to the point that it's detrimental to the team. PA should have been dealt and Nabokov as well.
Okposo and Bailey were rushed and now Nino is potentially falling victim too. Instead of signing players and letting his prospects develop, he chose to force them into NHL action. The same for Nino and the only reason why Nino is here is for his contract.
Everyone keeps mentioning these draftees as if they'll be here for an immediate impact. They won't. Their not ready, in another 2 years maybe. History will repeat itself and it will be the same thing over and over again.
I can't wait to see how Snow gets to the cap floor next season. Gosh I'm in a bad mood...
WANG BLOWS! SNOW BLOWS! CRAPPY BLOWS! Should I go on... Its a lock the JT will demand a trade from this TRAINWRECK in O/U 2 years... BTW, PAP and NABBY will run from this MESS on 7/1... Don't kid yourselves! I have not been the DISGUSTED in quite a while... Kinda long for Milbury!!! And that is DISGUSTING!
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