Was there a better coach and GM available yesterday? Yes?
Then Wang is not interested in being the best. That means he's happy selling sh** soup to his paying customers.
I don't pay him one dime ever since 2001. Just sayin. I spend on what I deem as the best I can afford. A business that wants my money then tries to become better and hires the best people and puts out the best product it can. I will spend on it, then.
This is the nature of business.
A business that puts out excellence is rewarded. Hmm.....why don't we have an arena development settled yet?
Wang can go to Hades if he wants my money. You and I have GARTH SNOW, not a competent GM or a ringing attempt at procuring THE BEST GM available.
Folks, we have the worst owner in sports. All sports.
When, since this isn't working, do we get someone BETTER to make it work? When the team folds?
STOP BUYING TICKETS AND SHOW WANG THIS WON'T WORK FOR YOU.
Continue to pay and you blanketly endorse mediocrity in the GM seat, coaching and the Beantown Posse we always sign every summer to not help us win.
We've disagreed in the past, but we are 100% in agreement now.
Folks...Charles Wang is the problem. Not part of the problem...The ENTIRE problem. You say we can't get rid of him? Maybe, but I know the only way he will get any possible message is by NOT spending money. By spending on the team you're rewarding him for the decisions he makes, which I honestly think all have been wrong since he's been owner.
Now I know some of you will say that by not spending money you send a message to the league that we don't care about the Islanders. Maybe again, but I'll tell you with 1000% confidence that I'm ok taking the risk of the Isles moving to Seattle if it means we have a chance of getting a new owner here.
I mean ask yourselves....Would you be ok if the Islanders stayed on Long Island for the next 50 years, but all of those 50 seasons were just like the last 10 under Wang have been?
Honestly. I'd rather they move. It's like being told you have to give up your childhood dog...Hurts like hell, but I hope he goes to a great new owner.
It's time the media starts to expose Snow and state the obvious.
It seems there are no media journalists that want to upset the GM for fear of being banned.
Get some media journalist to ask if it's Wang or Snow who should be held responsible for this teams failure it's about time that someone actually had the balls to ask who is really responsible and maybe then will Snow be forced to accept this mess or blame Wang. He can't hide behind the rebuild is taking shape after getting another top 5 pick
It's time the media starts to expose Snow and state the obvious.
It seems there are no media journalists that want to upset the GM for fear of being banned.
Get some media journalist to ask if it's Wang or Snow who should be held responsible for this teams failure it's about time that someone actually had the balls to ask who is really responsible and maybe then will Snow be forced to accept this mess or blame Wang. He can't hide behind the rebuild is taking shape after getting another top 5 pick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days
What media?
Here's the pecking order the NY media's sport's rooms.
Folks...Charles Wang is the problem. Not part of the problem...The ENTIRE problem. .
No one will disagree that Wang is the problem. The only thing that competes with Wang ineptitude is Snow and the Boston connection. We have the worst owner in sports combined with the worst GM in sports.
I'm sure Snow will make some radio appearance to let everyone know though
he didn't see the results he was hoping for the rebuild is progressing...
Time for fans to call in or email their questions about the progress.
someone here had them listed nicely in point form. Send these to the Isles
website. All fans should take their malcontent energies and fire these off to
the Isles organization pointing out the facts that have been listed nicely by this poster on this thread. For me being up here in Canada, it doesn't make a diff if they move or not but for locals who have seen this franchise go from a once respected dynasty to a Micky mouse group, its sad.
I've commented occassionly starting with how long a rebuild would take just to make the playoff offs again and
had some of you indicated 1 year , some 2 years etc.. I knew this thing was
well beyond that. I was fearful that Tavares will be eligble for UFA by the time
this Mgt group gets close. Nothing has changed here and looking forward to next year if there are not several changes done before training camp, expect more of the same top 5's
I am with you on not spending money on this team. But people will always go to the games it's the people that go and just drink all game long and not really know what's going on with this team. I just can't belive family's of 4 or 5 spend that kind of money on one game. The last few games that were pack with people we look and played like crap. I have not gone to a game in over 2 years and will not spend my money on this crap. I bought a 65 inch tv instead of getting my season tixxs. And let me tell you best thing I ever did when the game is over I can just turn the channel and don't have to drive home. People talk crap on how they at never going to the games but the same people will still go.
With Wang/Snow/Capuano I have no hope for next season. Could they have some success? its possible. But if they do It will be in spite of those three, not because of them.
If Wang sold the team today and they brought in a new coach and new GM There is no question in my mind that they make the playoffs next year. This team is stacked with young talent. Any good GM with an owner that is willing to spend a little money can come in here and turn this team into a contender with no problem at all.
If the Islanders had a real owner, I do not think Garth Snow would look as bad. The fact is the young players are signing here long term and veterans like Nabokov want to stay here. I am not talking about guys like Steve Staios or Milan Jurcina who would have no other place to play if not for the Islanders. Legitimate players want to play here and Garth Snow clearly knows how to convey to players what his vision is for the club. The problem is it is impossible to execute with Wang thinking he is god's gift to hockey
BUT, Snow is a bad GM, regardless of Wang's influence.
The Islanders are in the lottery every year - they suck, period. The reasons WHY are numerous and SNOW SPECIFICALLY is to blame for the bulk of it.
It's a poorly constructed team. Too many flawed players.
Nashville, Phoenix, St. Louis, Colorado - teams with similar payrolls, they have FAR BETTER teams.
Some fans love to tell the positive stories of Moulson's 30goals, Parenteau's points - yet we look past the poor defensive coverage, lack of speed and physical play and most importantly, the LOSS COLUMN.
Watching Nashville play makes me sad. They are so impressive and they have players that are the complete opposite of the team Snow's assembled. Just one example...there are more.
WANG WANG WANG. Snow is merely Wang's puppet and says anything he wants him to say.
Why do people not realize this?
agreed. Wang is stating loud and clear that they will not be spending above the cap floor. i want to see this changed, but we have Charles in charge. the Golden Rule...
the big question is, how can we change it?
will boycotting the games/merchandise help? will that hurt him in the pocketbook enough to force him to spend more? is there anything that can be done NOW? will writing to him help? can we form a fan club, join with other fan clubs, and and approach him as a group?
i'm all for doing something progressive, instead of just beetching to one another...
BUT, Snow is a bad GM, regardless of Wang's influence.
The Islanders are in the lottery every year - they suck, period. The reasons WHY are numerous and SNOW SPECIFICALLY is to blame for the bulk of it.
It's a poorly constructed team. Too many flawed players.
Nashville, Phoenix, St. Louis, Colorado - teams with similar payrolls, they have FAR BETTER teams.
Some fans love to tell the positive stories of Moulson's 30goals, Parenteau's points - yet we look past the poor defensive coverage, lack of speed and physical play and most importantly, the LOSS COLUMN.
Watching Nashville play makes me sad. They are so impressive and they have players that are the complete opposite of the team Snow's assembled. Just one example...there are more.
I think the vast majority of my infrequent posts strike the same chord here, but cap hit != actual payroll. Separate out bonuses, buyouts and other creative accounting tricks, and look at the actual salaries of the teams you listed that they put on the ice night in and night out. You'll find the Islanders are far behind the teams you listed. I think the Isles are actually like, low $30s in actual payroll. Assuming some of those bonuses are actually hit, it's maybe a mid-$30s team. Colorado, for example, which has about the same cap number as the Isles, has about $43M in actual payroll, with no bonuses being hit. Assuming some of their bonuses are hit, you're talking about a $10M difference between teams with similar cap hits. Quite a difference.
agreed. Wang is stating loud and clear that they will not be spending above the cap floor. i want to see this changed, but we have Charles in charge. the Golden Rule...
the big question is, how can we change it?
will boycotting the games/merchandise help? will that hurt him in the pocketbook enough to force him to spend more? is there anything that can be done NOW? will writing to him help? can we form a fan club, join with other fan clubs, and and approach him as a group?
i'm all for doing something progressive, instead of just beetching to one another...
Wang is already shooting himself in the foot by not improving the team versus signing the likes of Rolston. Add a veteran top 4 defenseman who can carry the puck with size to whatever happens next Fall in camp, and we just might make the playoffs next year. Can Garth do it? Make a trade?
agreed. Wang is stating loud and clear that they will not be spending above the cap floor. i want to see this changed, but we have Charles in charge. the Golden Rule...
the big question is, how can we change it?
will boycotting the games/merchandise help? will that hurt him in the pocketbook enough to force him to spend more? is there anything that can be done NOW? will writing to him help? can we form a fan club, join with other fan clubs, and and approach him as a group?
i'm all for doing something progressive, instead of just beetching to one another...
You see it's not just that Wang doesn't get it, he also just doesn't care. He bought this team in a real estate grab. He invested some into when he was getting the Lighthouse going. Since he hasn't gotten the end prize he wanted he really doesn't care how this team is doing. I wish we could do some form of protest or something that would make a diffrence, but it won't. This team is just gonna draft high and spend low untill something comes to a head in 2015.
WANG WANG WANG. Snow is merely Wang's puppet and says anything he wants him to say.
Why do people not realize this?
It is Wang but Snow is the puppet. If Snow stood up and wasn't afraid to lose his job, I would have no issue with Snow. Snow likes being a puppet so he shares the blame as well.
Capuano is still our coach and our next coach will be a joke as well.
I think the vast majority of my infrequent posts strike the same chord here, but cap hit != actual payroll. Separate out bonuses, buyouts and other creative accounting tricks, and look at the actual salaries of the teams you listed that they put on the ice night in and night out. You'll find the Islanders are far behind the teams you listed. I think the Isles are actually like, low $30s in actual payroll. Assuming some of those bonuses are actually hit, it's maybe a mid-$30s team. Colorado, for example, which has about the same cap number as the Isles, has about $43M in actual payroll, with no bonuses being hit. Assuming some of their bonuses are hit, you're talking about a $10M difference between teams with similar cap hits. Quite a difference.
I had posted this point at least 5-6 times throughout the year, the number was under $30MM, around $20-22MM if you excluded Rolston and DiPietro....I'm well aware of the fraud that Wang has cast upon the NHL, the CBA and the fans.
That does NOT excuse the poorly constructed aspect of the team. The flawed players, the slow players, the soft players. There are other ways to address the way you spend money, aside from the total amount of money.
The cumulative impacts of Rolston, Pandolfo, Eaton, Staios, Niederreiter, Comeau, Jurcina, Reasoner - those personnel decisions have helped bury the Islanders season. Bruno Gervais has more goals than all these players COMBINED.
Add up those salaries (NOT CAP HITS) and then try and convince me or anyone else that Snow did a good job to address the team's weaknesses. Weaknesses that have been there since Snow's FIRST DAY. Weaknesses so obvious that several HF posters have whined about them for years.
I'm not suggesting or expecting that Snow hits a home-run with every swing. And yes, Moulson and Parenteau have "worked out" in some ways (though flawed in other ways) - but there are a lot of big misses.
And those who complain about the Milbury-option, well, there IS A HAPPY MEDIUM between trading all your young players and leveraging some of your relative strengths to improve the team. We cannot absolve Snow of moves he HASN'T MADE to improve the team.
NOT TRYING is not the same as trying and failing....it might be worse though.
Nothings going to change as long as Wang owns the team(at least untill we have something figured out for 2015, if he still owns them.) Seriously the next compodent GM that wants to work for the Isles will be the first. Since the Neil Smith thing I don't think peope just are willing to take this job. Then they'll be the response "there's only 30 of these jobs, some one will take it". But honestly, theres 30 of these jobs and around 5 that will probably be your last if you take it, and one of those is NYI. Most smart front office NHL execs are looking for the right spot to land, not just any spot.
I suppose if Wang wanted to go out and offer a big time GM alot of money maybe he could get them to take the job. But, wait, what did I just do? I used "spend alot of money" and "wang" in the same sentence, hahahaha.
Most people here all say the same thing, "If Garth was fired today not another team in the league would hire him". Yet in the same breath they want him to stand up for what he believes in without caring about getting fired. Seems like that's not something any body would do without a solid resume.
Look, Garth has not been good. 5 straight lotto finshes tell you that. But honestly, does any body here really think that if they fire Snow its gonna get better? You'd just be putting your faith into Chucky to go out and find a replacement. We all know how this team works, if Garth is gone someone from within the orginization would be "promoted" to GM and would still be puppeted around by Wang.
I want to see this team win. You want this team to win. Every fan of every team wants there team to win. The owner of this team doesnt care though. He wants every thing run his way or you're gone. So, I ask any body who NEEDS Garth gone, Do you really think that will help this team? If Garth is fired and replaced by someone within the orginiztion, is the right person working here now? Will fireing Garth just help release some frustration by seeing a head roll, a head we can place blame on, and then just getting right back to the status quo?
In a way, how I feel is kinda like what Botta tried to say withn his blog that got him banned last year. He basically said, yeah, its great to roll a head and have a scapegoat, but does it, or did it do any thing positive going forward? Or were we just happy to see Gordon fired not realizing that the next coach would be an even bigger dummy and would be given even more rope. They didn't even hold an interview process over the summer to check out possible coaches. They probably wouldn't with GM either.
Just to add some info to my last post, I have been one of the people over the last 18 months saying I didn't believe Garth needed to be fired. Honestly, after 5 startight bottom 5 finishes I really have no defense for him. However, again, to me if you want to fire Garth, it could happen tomorrow and I wouldn't complaine. I also wouldn't be suprised if it was followed up by more non playoff seasons though. Even with no changes I believe this team will probably have a 6-8 point improvemnt so long as they can get 55+ solid games in net from Nabby, so if there was a new GM it might cosmetically look better, but not really.
I guess what I'm trying to convay is that even though I've stated Garth didn't deserve to be fired earlier times in this thread, at this point I couldn't argue if he did, and can't give great reasons why he shouldn't. I just don't think it will matter.
Just to add some info to my last post, I have been one of the people over the last 18 months saying I didn't believe Garth needed to be fired. Honestly, after 5 startight bottom 5 finishes I really have no defense for him. However, again, to me if you want to fire Garth, it could happen tomorrow and I wouldn't complaine. I also wouldn't be suprised if it was followed up by more non playoff seasons though. Even with no changes I believe this team will probably have a 6-8 point improvemnt so long as they can get 55+ solid games in net from Nabby, so if there was a new GM it might cosmetically look better, but not really.
I guess what I'm trying to convay is that even though I've stated Garth didn't deserve to be fired earlier times in this thread, at this point I couldn't argue if he did, and can't give great reasons why he shouldn't. I just don't think it will matter.
Before, I defended Snow because he is the polar opposite of Milbury, which the organization needed for the sake of rebuilding a pipeline.
At this point, I don't 'defend' Snow as much as I seek to place blame where it belongs, because firing Snow without Wang selling the team is kind of like blaming a 'less-inefficient-than-percieved' engine for crappy gas mileage in a 77 Oldsmobile Omega with bald, under-inflated tires.
Snow may not be the Bill Torrey we all wish he were, but not as bad as some think - Comeau obviously didn't set the world on fire after going to Calgary, or did Wisniewski in Columbus. You've got one guy getting paid $7M a year for 27 points, 99 shots on goal (an offense d-man.....99 shots all season....digest that) and 48 games played, and another guy who, in spite of a few flashes of quality, dove off the face of the earth rather than keep approaching his peak - 15 points in 74 games. Whatever reason he had for getting rid of those two, so far it doesn't seem misguided as neither of those guys pulled a Bertuzzi.
I don't do this to defend Snow, but there's evidence that he made solid decisions, at least in those two cases. Besides, on the other hand, I could easily name a ton of things I don't agree with - Niederreiter not returning to Portland (which is also Wang-related: payroll), Strome spending 9 games eating popcorn in the press box with Wang and the lack of trades.
I don't "preach patience" - I'm sick of my team getting dogged....but the man recognized that the team needed to be built from the ground upward, to which I still agree to this day even after all the losing seasons. Pretty soon definitive frontrunners are going to establish themselves ahead of the pack in the prospect pool, luckily once they're a little more mature and ready for NHL action. We know that Wang will not let Snow call in a mercenary cavalry like Tallon could in Florida, we know the cap floor prohibits certain moves that would be much better for the team and individual players (specifically Nino) and we know the arena deal is the major hurdle between 'now' and 'next.' None of these things are even halfway Snow's fault.
Then there's this:
Quote:
While the Islanders secured veteran forward Ed Westfall from the Boston Bruins in the 1972 NHL Expansion Draft, junior league star Billy Harris in the 1972 NHL Amateur Draft, and a few other respectable players, several other draftees jumped to the WHA. Unlike most other expansion teams' general managers, Islanders GM Bill Torrey did not make many trades for veteran players in the early years. Rather than pursue a "win now" strategy of getting a few veterans to boost attendance (a tactic which proved disastrous for many teams in the long run), Torrey was committed to building through the draft.
It looks to me that though Snow is NOT Bill Torrey, he's trying to do it the same way, and certain issues stemming from ownership's unwillingness to spend keep putting the kibosh on it. Not only was this team sucking wind when Snow took the reigns, it had no farm, 2 contracts that have since been proven horrid, no identity, no respectability. Though I don't like the fact that 5 years later, only one of the bad contracts is purged, the team is gaining an identity through Tavares and now has a great pipeline - with the majority of its contents just starting to hit the NHL horizon.
I know this sounds like I'm setting Snow up like North Koreans do Kim-il Sung, but believe me - I'm not; I'm just playing devil's advocate, and I honestly believe that if Snow had a better starting point with a better owner, there wouldn't be too many differences between that team and some warped Nashville/non-cup-year Anaheim - skilled, mean and mobile. Every time I approach my opinion of this organization critically (one example being the above paragraph on Comeau/Wisniewski; I began it in agreement with a few posters above, checked the actual stats and had to amend it,) I finish feeling ticked off at Wang more than anyone else. There have been almost no successes worth mentioning about Snow's tenure other than the pipeline and Tavares in charge, but I'd rather have a meticulous, stingy and maddeningly quiet GM like Snow than a guy who would waltz in, trade half the farm for a few quick fixes and subject us to a decade of 8th-11th place finishes. If this were court, Isles' fans were plaintiffs and Snow & Wang were defendants, Wang would get the full indictment and Snow would be cleared for 'insufficient evidence,' as I simply don't see him as the demon he's vilified as.
Before, I defended Snow because he is the polar opposite of Milbury, which the organization needed for the sake of rebuilding a pipeline.
At this point, I don't 'defend' Snow as much as I seek to place blame where it belongs, because firing Snow without Wang selling the team is kind of like blaming a 'less-inefficient-than-percieved' engine for crappy gas mileage in a 77 Oldsmobile Omega with bald, under-inflated tires.
Snow may not be the Bill Torrey we all wish he were, but not as bad as some think - Comeau obviously didn't set the world on fire after going to Calgary, or did Wisniewski in Columbus. You've got one guy getting paid $7M a year for 27 points, 99 shots on goal (an offense d-man.....99 shots all season....digest that) and 48 games played, and another guy who, in spite of a few flashes of quality, dove off the face of the earth rather than keep approaching his peak - 15 points in 74 games. Whatever reason he had for getting rid of those two, so far it doesn't seem misguided as neither of those guys pulled a Bertuzzi.
I don't do this to defend Snow, but there's evidence that he made solid decisions, at least in those two cases. Besides, on the other hand, I could easily name a ton of things I don't agree with - Niederreiter not returning to Portland (which is also Wang-related: payroll), Strome spending 9 games eating popcorn in the press box with Wang and the lack of trades.
I don't "preach patience" - I'm sick of my team getting dogged....but the man recognized that the team needed to be built from the ground upward, to which I still agree to this day even after all the losing seasons. Pretty soon definitive frontrunners are going to establish themselves ahead of the pack in the prospect pool, luckily once they're a little more mature and ready for NHL action. We know that Wang will not let Snow call in a mercenary cavalry like Tallon could in Florida, we know the cap floor prohibits certain moves that would be much better for the team and individual players (specifically Nino) and we know the arena deal is the major hurdle between 'now' and 'next.' None of these things are even halfway Snow's fault.
Then there's this:
It looks to me that though Snow is NOT Bill Torrey, he's trying to do it the same way, and certain issues stemming from ownership's unwillingness to spend keep putting the kibosh on it. Not only was this team sucking wind when Snow took the reigns, it had no farm, 2 contracts that have since been proven horrid, no identity, no respectability. Though I don't like the fact that 5 years later, only one of the bad contracts is purged, the team is gaining an identity through Tavares and now has a great pipeline - with the majority of its contents just starting to hit the NHL horizon.
I know this sounds like I'm setting Snow up like North Koreans do Kim-il Sung, but believe me - I'm not; I'm just playing devil's advocate, and I honestly believe that if Snow had a better starting point with a better owner, there wouldn't be too many differences between that team and some warped Nashville/non-cup-year Anaheim - skilled, mean and mobile. Every time I approach my opinion of this organization critically (one example being the above paragraph on Comeau/Wisniewski; I began it in agreement with a few posters above, checked the actual stats and had to amend it,) I finish feeling ticked off at Wang more than anyone else. There have been almost no successes worth mentioning about Snow's tenure other than the pipeline and Tavares in charge, but I'd rather have a meticulous, stingy and maddeningly quiet GM like Snow than a guy who would waltz in, trade half the farm for a few quick fixes and subject us to a decade of 8th-11th place finishes. If this were court, Isles' fans were plaintiffs and Snow & Wang were defendants, Wang would get the full indictment and Snow would be cleared for 'insufficient evidence,' as I simply don't see him as the demon he's vilified as.
I've always placed most all the blame here on Wang. I've liked the building up of the system, adding depth to the prospect pool. I'm still not even calling for Garth to get fired. I think Garth has done some good and some bad. Mostly it's just all been about drafting though. It could be years untill we really know how well he did. After a fifth straight bottom 5 finish though it's just getting harder to give more good reasons as to why he shouldn't be fired as to why he should. In the end the record speaks for it self, so if some one wants Garth fired I won't argue, but I just wouldn't think it would really change things in the end.
They both suck. Wang sucks for being a cheap **** and Snow sucks because with the money he is allowed to spend he brings in ******** guys who cant help. They both need to go.
