you should have waited at least 1 month till you made that call buddy, but hey at least you can watch some other good teams play. Teams that back check, block shots, skate an entire shift, and coaches that will call a timeout and blast his team when he sees them running around like Mites.
Well if nothing else, and if you disagree just consider this a fresh and new perspective.....
I watched hockey from 82-93/94. Never missed a game. Then took a furlough except for some minor following in the late 90's. The Isles always looked so bad I never made an effort to purchase the games (I live out of state).
Ironically, five games ago, I ordered NHL Center Ice from DirectTV. I saw the Isles in first place. But what sold me was not that they were top 5 in PP but that they were #1 in blocked shots. I like defense and blocked shots tells me you have heart, if nothing else.
What I have seen since I got the package was unquestionably the worst hockey team I have ever seen. Both in talent and in coaching which is very hard to do.
Things this team does not do well:
1. Cannot pass at all. All passes go to the skates and are either mishandled or slows the play down.
2. No Speed at all. After last nights game I flipped around to check some other teams and it was like watching an entirely different league of advanced superstars. Even when given a headstart and a better angle no Islander player can get to a puck before hsi opponent.
3. No toughness. Watching some of the Pittsburgh/Dallas game once it was 3-1 the penguins just started beating the crap out of their opponent. The Islanders take their beating like an abused spouse of 20 years. Absolutely no forechecking.
4. No shooter. No single player has a cannon for a shot. It would seem with this and their lack of toughness that they have no trainer that gives thema program to be physically ready for the NFL
5. No Coaching. Sorry, I've only known Scott Gordon for a few weeks now but having been an Arizona Cardinal fan in the NFL for 25 years I can spot bad coaching when I see it.
6. No organization plan. OK so you get young, fresh players but dont give them a few role model veteran to learn from? Coupled with the fact that many of these young guys just arent NHL material. I know this will be bashed but JT reminds me of Ziggy Palffy. He might make a HOF 3rd line center or an above average 2nd line center but he is no first line center. Great 1st line centers improve the play of their wingers. JT needs better wingers to improve his play.7. Absolutely no defense. Regardless of injuries because of the lack of speed they are unable to keep up with their opponents giving tons of space.
If I am the owner you have to
1. Fire Garth Snow. I mean I know Ive been out of hockey for awhile but when I read that Garth Snow was hired I made sure that I would stay dissapeared for a few years more. Garth Snow...really? I mean....really?
2. Spend more. Owners that dont want to spend should be forced to sell.
3. Bring in at least one good player for each line that has 5+ years of experience to teach the younger players.
4. Get a strength and conditioning coach that knows his job.
5. Get a Chris Pronger type player....or two. to line up with K. That will keep teams from playing around.
6. Fire the coach and get a proven commodity.
Basically destroy this team and start over because I have never seen less talent, less heart and less desire. This will turn into a cancer, if it hasnt already, that eats away the core of this franchise for the next decade.
Peace.
I disagree with the bolded parts. As far as Tavares, IF he had better linemates, maybe they'd bury some of his passes. I've seen him make a multitude of excellent passes this year, and should have at least 10 assists (instead of 2). I feel he is greatly improved in that area, as well as other areas of his game (faster & stronger on his skates, better in the face off dot, better at avoiding hits, better at backchecking, etc). Being this is your first year watching hockey in a while, especially Tavares, you don't really notice his improved play from his rookie season. Also, you should notice, everyone needs better linemates as you say. Look at Stamkos, his career blossomed once he was paired with St Louis. We don't have anyone near that level.
Also, I think injuries have played a huge part of the slump. Somehow they were able to win without Streit, Okposo, Schremp, Tavares (for 3 games), Wisniewski (for 2 games). Now add MacDonald & Murcina to the loss of Streit, and those are huge losses for our defense. MacDonald is very underrated defensively (blocked shots, etc), and it's not a coincidence that he's been out 5 games, and we lost all 5.
Right now we are without Streit, Okposo, MacDonald and Jurcina. Tough to overcome the top three names. I think they will be ok, but you have to remember, this was not going to be a playoff team WITH Streit & Okposo, but it sure would have been nice to see what this team could have been like with a full staff. DiPierto's putrid play isn't helping either.
3. No toughness. Watching some of the Pittsburgh/Dallas game once it was 3-1 the penguins just started beating the crap out of their opponent. The Islanders take their beating like an abused spouse of 20 years. Absolutely no forechecking.
Like how Konopka was fighting when we were down 6-0 to Philly?
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4. No shooter. No single player has a cannon for a shot.
Wisniewski?
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5. No Coaching. Sorry, I've only known Scott Gordon for a few weeks now but having been an Arizona Cardinal fan in the NFL for 25 years I can spot bad coaching when I see it.
Yeah that makes sense...So you have only seen him for a few weeks yet he should be fired.
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6. No organization plan. OK so you get young, fresh players but dont give them a few role model veteran to learn from? Coupled with the fact that many of these young guys just arent NHL material. I know this will be bashed but JT reminds me of Ziggy Palffy. He might make a HOF 3rd line center or an above average 2nd line center but he is no first line center. Great 1st line centers improve the play of their wingers. JT needs better wingers to improve his play.
Doug Weight? And JT a 3rd line center? Seriously?
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7. Absolutely no defense. Regardless of injuries because of the lack of speed they are unable to keep up with their opponents giving tons of space.
The D sucks, not having Streit and AMac isn't helping.
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1. Fire Garth Snow. I mean I know Ive been out of hockey for awhile but when I read that Garth Snow was hired I made sure that I would stay dissapeared for a few years more. Garth Snow...really? I mean....really?
So you haven't paid any attention to hockey and you think he should be fired? Another facepalm right there.
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2. Spend more. Owners that dont want to spend should be forced to sell.
Agree.
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3. Bring in at least one good player for each line that has 5+ years of experience to teach the younger players.
Would be nice.
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5. Get a Chris Pronger type player....or two. to line up with K. That will keep teams from playing around.
Yeah lets just pull a Chris Pronger type from out of nowhere, those types grow on trees, how do you expect to get one?
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Basically destroy this team and start over because I have never seen less talent, less heart and less desire. This will turn into a cancer, if it hasnt already, that eats away the core of this franchise for the next decade.
Thankfully GM's have a bit more patience. They aren't going to explode a team after one 5 game losing streak.
Last edited by Doug Height: 11-04-2010 at 11:57 AM.
I disagree with the bolded parts. As far as Tavares, IF he had better linemates, maybe they'd bury some of his passes. I've seen him make a multitude of excellent passes this year, and should have at least 10 assists (instead of 2). I feel he is greatly improved in that area, as well as other areas of his game (faster & stronger on his skates, better in the face off dot, better at avoiding hits, better at backchecking, etc). Being this is your first year watching hockey in a while, especially Tavares, you don't really notice his improved play from his rookie season. Also, you should notice, everyone needs better linemates as you say. Look at Stamkos, his career blossomed once he was paired with St Louis. We don't have anyone near that level.
Also, I think injuries have played a huge part of the slump. Somehow they were able to win without Streit, Okposo, Schremp, Tavares (for 3 games), Wisniewski (for 2 games). Now add MacDonald & Murcina to the loss of Streit, and those are huge losses for our defense. MacDonald is very underrated defensively (blocked shots, etc), and it's not a coincidence that he's been out 5 games, and we lost all 5.
Right now we are without Streit, Okposo, MacDonald and Jurcina. Tough to overcome the top three names. I think they will be ok, but you have to remember, this was not going to be a playoff team WITH Streit & Okposo, but it sure would have been nice to see what this team could have been like with a full staff. DiPierto's putrid play isn't helping either.
i couldnt agree more scotty.... JT gets the puck where guys should be. the problem is either they not where they should be or they cant finish. Plus since he is not fleet of foot giving him the slower forwards to work with only make is harder for him to find room to work. Gretzky didnt turn 5 goal guys into HOLers here made good players great and great players HOFers.
i couldnt agree more scotty.... JT gets the puck where guys should be. the problem is either they not where they should be or they cant finish. Plus since he is not fleet of foot giving him the slower forwards to work with only make is harder for him to find room to work. Gretzky didnt turn 5 goal guys into HOLers here made good players great and great players HOFers.
Unfortunately for Tavares, he doesn't even have good wingers to try to turn great (Not comparing Tavares to Gretzky, just making a point). Getting back Okposo might change that. Moulson is decent, and can become good, but I don't think he's there yet. I can imagine a time when Okposo, Petrov and Niederreiter are burying Tavares' passes with regularity. I think even without good/great wingers, Tavares has been very good.
Like how Konopka was fighting when we were down 6-0 to Philly?
Wisniewski?
Yeah that makes sense...So you have only seen him for a few weeks yet he should be fired.
Doug Weight? And JT a 3rd line center? Seriously?
The D sucks, not having Streit and AMac isn't helping.
So you haven't paid any attention to hockey and you think he should be fired? Another facepalm right there.
Agree.
Would be nice.
Yeah lets just pull a Chris Pronger type from out of nowhere, those types grow on trees, how do you expect to get one?
Thankfully GM's have a bit more patience. They aren't going to explode a team after one 5 game losing streak.
I wont go over each of these. They are just opinions and your is probbaly alot more valuable than mine but just a few points.
I've never seen a worse hockey player than Doug Weight. He must pass with his eyes closed because they almost never come close to connecting or get picked off. Has to be the slowest skater on the team (of very slow skaters). I just cant see anything he briings to the table at all. Although his one play last night was nice.
And there are a lot of Pronger types. Do they play as well as he? no but we need that attitude and physical presence. If we cant get a Pronger can we get a Kasperitus (My all time favorite Islander! lol)?
Konopka might be out best player along with JT. Of course I havent watched the injured guys play and I cant wait till I do.
Right track? Outside of JT they don't even have a guy who could be considered a true first liner, and he does not looks so hot. As usual this team is made up of a bunch of 3rd liners, who are asked to play above their means. There is also no one tearing it up in the minors that is going to make a great difference at all. Then there is the real possibility that our so called core players will sign somewhere else as soon as they get the chance. The revolving door continues.
The fact that we don't have anyone tearing it up in the minors is kind of part of my point. You don't draft guys one year and then instantly get 3 guys ready to join the AHL (or NHL) and do damage. Hamonic is doing fine in the AHL. DeHaan is AHL ready, but he must wait.
We have plenty of players who are performing as expected (and some better) in Juniors and elsewhere.
Other than 1st rounders, many draftees can take 4+ years to develop. We have some players from 2006 in the fold or close. For our 2007 draft, we didn't have a 1st or 2nd rounder. It's after that point that the rebuild began.
So only 2008, 2009 and 2010 draftees were part of the rebuild phase. Prior to that, Okposo was our prized possession and we made some decent later picks that may or may not pan out.
Still, because they were superior to any talent already here, or that could be brought in, our top-end 2008 and 2009 draftees are already in the NHL. But the rest of the players that will need longer to develop, and for the full development of our 1st rounders, we will need more time to pass.
I'm not against people who are sick of not seeing us win a playoff round. We're all sick of that. People need to realize the difference between what has happened in the past, and what has happened in the past few years.
You are entitled to your opinion an I am entitled to mine. I am a very logical person and understand GM's get time to see what they can build.Snow has only done one thing so far and that is LOSE. After four years of zero results I think it is fair to look at the job the GM has done. Most people forget that the job of the GM is to try to make the team win this season and in future seasons, not just tank for draft picks.
So far, the only thing Snow has done was lose and pile up draft picks. Buying out Yashin was a prime example of Snow not having a plan, as he tried to bring in a player with similar offensive production for similar money in Smyth, the difference was the personality with the two. even when he acquired Smyth, he tried trading our 40 goal guy Blake immediately after for a draft pick so what was the plan that year. To me a plan is not to lose and grab drraft picks hoping they turn into something. That is not being a GM that is standing on the side lines.
While he does not have alot to work with, and Wang is proabably the worst owner in hockey Snow has not stepped up. If I was the GM, the team would finish in the bottom 5 as well but, I am not a professional GM. Snow has simply done nothing, and has these built in excuses that we as fans must see past. Wang is unfortunately here to stay it looks like so Snow is next in line for who must go.
As for injuries, teams lose their best players all the time. About half the teams in the league will lose a star player for a portion of the season. Look at the major injuries already Gaborik ,Drury ,Parise, Markov, Hossa , Pominville, Gagne, Phaneuf, and proabably a few more. The point is injuries happen to every team and most teams will lose a big player. For them, it is not an excuse to lose an entire season and for a bottom 5 finish. Good teams can overcome a big injuries, we are still not a good team so don't say Streit and Okposo are causing us to miss the playoffs, there is plenty more at work here. For this fan it is unacceptable, I am not giving these PROFESSIONALS excuses that people use in beer league games.
We're both entitled to our opinions. Unfortunately, our opinions greatly differ. I disagree about buying out Yashin. The culture here had to change. Many here will agree that was a good start (with some dissenters.) Ryan Smyth and Alexei Yashin are not the same type of players, regardless of "similar offensive production."
You say Snow has done nothing. I agree that he's accomplished nothing, so far, but saying he's done nothing is hyperbole. Can you explain our strong play the first several games? Why does the last stretch outweigh the first stretch? That's my biggest item of contention with this thread.
My issue is that you're writing off our team and writing in the Rangers because they've won a couple of games while facing adversity? We won a few games while facing adversity. Now we've lost some. We've played 12 games. We've looked good in half and bad in half. There's a reason for our inconsistency. Some of the reasons for this are injuries to major players, having a young core that is still developing, and we still lack NHL-ready depth.
Next season, Bridgeport should look a lot better. Next season, the NHL team should look a lot better. This season, I still expect this team to look better in the NHL. If this team stayed in contention until Okposo came back and then continued to stay in it until Streit came back, that would be facing adversity. I feel it's too early to tell if that will or won't happen.
Perhaps, we just have different versions of logic working here. Obviously, we disagree on what the beginning of this season and the past few years of Snow's tenure have meant.
You say Snow has done nothing. I agree that he's accomplished nothing, so far, but saying he's done nothing is hyperbole. Can you explain our strong play the first several games? Why does the last stretch outweigh the first stretch? That's my biggest item of contention with this thread.
My issue is that you're writing off our team and writing in the Rangers because they've won a couple of games while facing adversity? We won a few games while facing adversity. Now we've lost some. We've played 12 games. We've looked good in half and bad in half. There's a reason for our inconsistency. Some of the reasons for this are injuries to major players, having a young core that is still developing, and we still lack NHL-ready depth.
Next season, Bridgeport should look a lot better. Next season, the NHL team should look a lot better. This season, I still expect this team to look better in the NHL. If this team stayed in contention until Okposo came back and then continued to stay in it until Streit came back, that would be facing adversity. I feel it's too early to tell if that will or won't happen.
Perhaps, we just have different versions of logic working here. Obviously, we disagree on what the beginning of this season and the past few years of Snow's tenure have meant.
its easy to get angry after 5 games of bad hockey. but personally i dont think garth has much to do with this. he has done what he can with the little money he can spend and quite frankly is handcuffed besides the draft.
a lot of people in here need to step back and take some deep breaths.
Gotta love how many people here complain about what others post. Talk about being hyper-sensitive.
nothing to do with being hyper-sensitive, rather its just getting predictable and laughable on what a see-saw this place is.
The first 5 games oft he season, people were loving this team. I even saw on the NHL board, someone introducing Josh Bailey, basically saying that this kid is the breakout kid everyone thought he'd be and how great he is doing. What has he doen lately?
Nothing. barely on the radar.
Enough with the mood swings and understand that this team ( like past years) is going to have ups and downs.. it happens with ALL teams. Expect the swings to be even more pronounced with a young team filled with injuries.
I can deal with all posts discussing the highs and lows.
its the ones like this with the FIRE SNOW which I really can't take. the guy tried to get some winning teams by filling with other players and not doing a full rebuild. Now he is doing a full rebuild, doing well, gaining momentum.
A winless streak by this team in Oct has NOTHING to do with Snow.
I have been very fair in regard to Snow AND Gordon but if we finish this season talking about draft lottery, they both need to go. Not making that prediction at all but if that does indeed come to pass, time for some new blood in here. Not saying Wang would EVER fire either one of them but he should if we are making tailgate reservations for the draft party by Valentines Day...
I'm happy with how Snow has built this team through the draft. Give it a few more years, I'm sure this team will shape up fine. Right now, this is more of Gordon's fault. There is no reason to play DiPi when Roloson is on a much higher level than him. PAP should not be on the powerplay unit if he can't one time the puck either.
I'm happy with how Snow has built this team through the draft. Give it a few more years, I'm sure this team will shape up fine. Right now, this is more of Gordon's fault. There is no reason to play DiPi when Roloson is on a much higher level than him. PAP should not be on the powerplay unit if he can't one time the puck either.
This is neither Snow's or Gordon's fault. This is a very young team, with the lowest payroll in the entire sport. Even still, the team out there is not as bad as the last 2 games would suggest, nor as good as the team that started off in 1st place in the Atlantic 8 games in.
We are still a work in progress. We still have many young players that are developing. We finished 25th in the league last year. Do some of you truly expect to jump from 25th to top 10 in one year?
This team will/is better than last year's team. However, with Okposo and Streit both out, we likely won't be good enough to sneak into the playoffs. Knee jerk reactions is what made MM terrible. The bipolar fan, manic during winning streaks, and depressed during losing streats is just as awful.
I'm not all that crazy about Snow (mainly because I think it's pathetic that most fans will praise him non-stop merely for making top 10 picks.)
That said, he doesn't deserve blame. If you're pissed, point the finger right where it belongs: Charles Wang. Almost every problem with this organization, from the stupid contracts to the bargain basement payroll to the disorderly circus atmosphere runs from the top down.
I will say this in swd1974's defense: he's 100% right on Dougie Weight.
The guy is done. Past done. He's had a great career, but at this point he should have absolutely no place on an NHL roster. If the Isles want to keep him around for leadership, put him on the coaching staff or something. Keep him off the power play.
I'm not all that crazy about Snow (mainly because I think it's pathetic that most fans will praise him non-stop merely for making top 10 picks.)
That said, he doesn't deserve blame. If you're pissed, point the finger right where it belongs: Charles Wang. Almost every problem with this organization, from the stupid contracts to the bargain basement payroll to the disorderly circus atmosphere runs from the top down.
Agreed, Wang is the problem right now.
And what do people expect if we fire Snow? I doubt there is even one respectable GM that would be willing to work under Wang.
I will say this in swd1974's defense: he's 100% right on Dougie Weight.
The guy is done. Past done. He's had a great career, but at this point he should have absolutely no place on an NHL roster. If the Isles want to keep him around for leadership, put him on the coaching staff or something. Keep him off the power play.
I think it's time to give Bailey a shot on the top PP unit...
Next time we have a losing streak, I think we should kill the players.
like sniper style? ambush? chemicals?
Overreaction is what a passionate fan-base is supposed to do. Check out the Leaf board or the Habs board! The Devils board is a hotspot this year too.
But slump aside, the Islanders are simply not a good team. Individual performances and public lynchings aside, the on-ice talent level isn't there. I wish it was, but it's not.
Two years from now, with Niederreiter, Petrov, Gregoire, Lee at forward, deHaan, Hamonic, Adam Larsson and Matt Donovan on defense. Maybe a different story.
I have been very fair in regard to Snow AND Gordon but if we finish this season talking about draft lottery, they both need to go. Not making that prediction at all but if that does indeed come to pass, time for some new blood in here. Not saying Wang would EVER fire either one of them but he should if we are making tailgate reservations for the draft party by Valentines Day...
This is mainly what I am talking about/ thinking. The NOW part was me being frustrated with the teams recent play, but if the team is out of it in Feb than I am all for bringing on a new GM for the trade deadline or at least by the draft. It ridiculous to accept losing which it seems like too many of us have and have gotten used to. Amassing prospects with top 10 picks and a free agent signing that worked does not equal a good job too me I want more. No excuses for Snow, this is the pros.
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