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Top 25 players since Gary Bettman was named commissioner

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Old
11-04-2010, 02:18 AM
  #1
Seanconn*
 
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Top 25 players since Gary Bettman was named commissioner

just forwards and defenceman... but feel free to add goalies outside of the list, if you feel the need.


So from the 1992/1993 season up until now.

1) Mario Lemieux
2) Niklas Lidstrom
3) Jaromir Jagr
4) Teemu Selanne
5) Alex Ovechkin
6) Sydney Crosby
7) Joe Sakic
8) Peter Forsberg
9) Pavel Bure
10) Sergei Fedorov
11) Scott Neidermayer
12) Eric Lindros
13) Chris Pronger
14) Wayne Gretzky
15) Ilya Kovalchuk
16) Evgeni Malkin
17) Joe Thornton
18) Dany Heatley
19) Steve Stamkos
20) Scott Stevens
21) Sergei Gonchar
22) Jarome Iginla
23) Steve Yzerman
24) Paul Kariya
25) Brett Hull

probably missing some players... but remember it's 92/93 and onwards, a lot of people that you might think should be on the list like or seem too high... or low on the list...but remember it's based on AFTER 1992/1993 I don't care if they scored 100+ points a season before 92/93... this list is based on after 92/93.


obviously there are some really good young players right now that could be on this list too like Toews, Kane, Parise... maybe it's too soon to put Stamkos there, but i have a strong feeling the kid is going to keep on scoring the goals for a long time at the same pace... and if that's the case, he could really be in the top 10... but 19 is about as high as I can put him without simply going on a hunch.

maybe I missed a few Dmen, or maybe I really overlooked some players like Pavel Datsyuk... but I'm mostly going by pure stats here, and giving more credit to prime/ standout seasons vs. stability...


feel free to critique the crap out of this list, but please post a list of your own, and feel free to drop it down to a top 10 or 15 list , if you find 25 to take too long.


Last edited by Seanconn*: 11-04-2010 at 04:03 AM.
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11-04-2010, 02:50 AM
  #2
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Selanne 3rd has got to be a joke, right?

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11-04-2010, 02:59 AM
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fine.. I'll put him 4th behind Jagr.. but he doesn't deserve to be any lower than that. he's severely under-rated on these boards , imo.


Last edited by Seanconn*: 11-04-2010 at 03:53 AM.
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11-04-2010, 03:11 AM
  #4
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1. Mario Lemieux
2. Dominik Hasek
3. Jaromir Jagr
4. Nicklas Lidstrom
5. Joe Sakic
6. Martin Brodeur
7. Steve Yzerman
8. Patrick Roy
9. Brett Hull
10. Chris Chelios
11. Chris Pronger
12. Sergei Fedorov
13. Joe Thornton
14. Peter Forsberg
15. Teemu Selanne
16. Eric Lindros
17. Scott Stevens
18. Al MacInnis
19. Alexander Ovechkin
20. Sidney Crosby
21. Brendan Shanahan
22. Ray Bourque
23. Jarome Iginla
24. Mike Modano
25. Mark Recchi

It's hard to quantify parts of peoples' careers. MacInnis vs. Stevens was difficult for me.

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11-04-2010, 03:57 AM
  #5
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What a strange way to determine a cut off point.

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11-04-2010, 06:01 AM
  #6
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not really... it's an attempt to have at a list that won't be dominated by people who played in the 1970's/80's.

I thought it was a good year to start with. Since the Sharks, Lightning, Senators, Ducks and Panthers all entered the league all around the time of 92/93 season that saw Bettman come into the league as the first commissioner.

and the fact that the NHL was significantly higher paced and harder hitting in the middle of the 1990's, and especially the 2000's, compared to what it was in the 80's and before that...

I guess I could have simply said 1990 and onward... but my list would have probably looked a lot different... and maybe i just didn't want to put Brett Hull that high up , Gretzky would have undoubtedly had to be in the top 10- and personally I think it's nice for once to have a list that gretzky doesn't just automatically get a spot in the top 2 for basically everyone's lists.

The all times lists are great, but they've kinda been beaten to death around these. nothing wrong with something different, TheDevilMadeMe? is there

come on give me your list 92/93 onward I bet it's a good one

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11-04-2010, 10:47 AM
  #7
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I thought it was a good year to start with. Since the Sharks, Lightning, Senators, Ducks and Panthers all entered the league all around the time of 92/93 season that saw Bettman come into the league as the first commissioner.
And because that was a certain player's rookie season, no doubt!

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11-04-2010, 11:49 AM
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How about the greatest goalie of all time?

Stamkos should not be on the list. At the end of the year, if he wins the Art Ross or a second Richard, maybe, but not now. I mean Stamkos ahead of Iginla and Yzerman? Why?!

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11-04-2010, 11:52 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahovlich View Post
1. Mario Lemieux
2. Dominik Hasek
3. Jaromir Jagr
4. Nicklas Lidstrom
5. Joe Sakic
6. Martin Brodeur
7. Steve Yzerman
8. Patrick Roy
9. Brett Hull
10. Chris Chelios
11. Chris Pronger
12. Sergei Fedorov
13. Joe Thornton
14. Peter Forsberg
15. Teemu Selanne
16. Eric Lindros
17. Scott Stevens
18. Al MacInnis
19. Alexander Ovechkin
20. Sidney Crosby
21. Brendan Shanahan
22. Ray Bourque
23. Jarome Iginla
24. Mike Modano
25. Mark Recchi

It's hard to quantify parts of peoples' careers. MacInnis vs. Stevens was difficult for me.
Very good list.

Lemieux/Hasek/Jagr/Lidstrom = Teir 1
Sakic/Brodeur/Yzerman/Roy = Teir 2

I'd put Belfour in there somewhere, ahead of Recchi at least.

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11-04-2010, 12:25 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
fine.. I'll put him 4th behind Jagr.. but he doesn't deserve to be any lower than that. he's severely under-rated on these boards , imo.
The fact that you even considered Selanne over Jagr is hilarious. At what point was Selanne ever a better player? From 1994 until Jagr left the NHL, the only season Selanne outscored him was in 1997, and Jagr was on pace to outscore him easily if he didn't miss 20 games.

Sakic was pretty clearly better too. Better offensive stats, higher scoring finishes, and WAY better in the playoffs.


Last edited by arrbez: 11-04-2010 at 12:32 PM.
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Old
11-04-2010, 12:32 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahovlich View Post
1. Mario Lemieux
2. Dominik Hasek
3. Jaromir Jagr
4. Nicklas Lidstrom
5. Joe Sakic
6. Martin Brodeur
7. Steve Yzerman
8. Patrick Roy
9. Brett Hull
10. Chris Chelios
11. Chris Pronger
12. Sergei Fedorov
13. Joe Thornton
14. Peter Forsberg
15. Teemu Selanne
16. Eric Lindros
17. Scott Stevens
18. Al MacInnis
19. Alexander Ovechkin
20. Sidney Crosby
21. Brendan Shanahan
22. Ray Bourque
23. Jarome Iginla
24. Mike Modano
25. Mark Recchi

It's hard to quantify parts of peoples' careers. MacInnis vs. Stevens was difficult for me.
Much better than OP. No offense.

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11-04-2010, 12:36 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahovlich View Post
1. Mario Lemieux
2. Dominik Hasek
3. Jaromir Jagr
4. Nicklas Lidstrom
5. Joe Sakic
6. Martin Brodeur
7. Steve Yzerman
8. Patrick Roy
9. Brett Hull
10. Chris Chelios
11. Chris Pronger
12. Sergei Fedorov
13. Joe Thornton
14. Peter Forsberg
15. Teemu Selanne
16. Eric Lindros
17. Scott Stevens
18. Al MacInnis
19. Alexander Ovechkin
20. Sidney Crosby
21. Brendan Shanahan
22. Ray Bourque
23. Jarome Iginla
24. Mike Modano
25. Mark Recchi

It's hard to quantify parts of peoples' careers. MacInnis vs. Stevens was difficult for me.
Very good list. The only real issue I see is Brett Hull being that high. His peak happened before the years in question. He should definitely be in the bottom half of that list, if at all.

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11-04-2010, 01:23 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seanconn View Post
1) Mario Lemieux
2) Niklas Lidstrom
3) Jaromir Jagr
4) Teemu Selanne
5) Alex Ovechkin
6) Sydney Crosby
7) Joe Sakic
8) Peter Forsberg
9) Pavel Bure
10) Sergei Fedorov
11) Scott Neidermayer
12) Eric Lindros
13) Chris Pronger
14) Wayne Gretzky
15) Ilya Kovalchuk
16) Evgeni Malkin
17) Joe Thornton
18) Dany Heatley
19) Steve Stamkos
20) Scott Stevens
21) Sergei Gonchar
22) Jarome Iginla
23) Steve Yzerman
24) Paul Kariya
25) Brett Hull
What? Yzerman behind Guys like Selänne, Kavalchuk, Malkin, Thornton and Stamkos? My question is, did you even watch hockey during the 90s?

Even a guy like Claude Lemieux deserves to be ranked above some of these guys. I doubt Kovalchuk and Malkin would even be ranked above Modano, Alfredsson and Robitaille if you are not ranking these on pure flashy skills.

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11-04-2010, 01:44 PM
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You cannot justify putting Stamkos on that list at all, ahead of guys like Iginla, Datsyuk, let alone ahead of Kariya.

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11-04-2010, 02:04 PM
  #15
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I hate to be accusatory, but it seems like OP is a Selanne fan who hasn't been watching hockey for long. As a result he has little knowledge of pre-lockout hockey, especially 90s hockey, but still decided to start his analysis in 92-93 because it includes Selanne's monster rookie season.

Am I way off, or?

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11-04-2010, 02:04 PM
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I agree that in the OP Selänne is quite high, but I seriously don´t know how someone can put Selänne out of top 14. I mean, he has 612 career goals! Not to mention he is 40 and still a great player and it looks like he is gonna have another nice season. (9th in scoring atm) C´mon, how can guys like Forsberg, Bure and Thornton be ahead of him? He is getting seriously underrated here. Maybe people will finally realize how good he was after he retires.

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11-04-2010, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heksagon View Post
I agree that in the OP Selänne is quite high, but I seriously don´t know how someone can put Selänne out of top 14. I mean, he has 612 career goals! Not to mention he is 40 and still a great player and it looks like he is gonna have another nice season. (9th in scoring atm) C´mon, how can guys like Forsberg, Bure and Thornton be ahead of him? He is getting seriously underrated here. Maybe people will finally realize how good he was after he retires.
Because he is much less productive when playoff time arrives. During this time frame he is number one in goals with 612 goals in ~1200 games. In playoffs he has 35 goals in 105 games which puts himongst greats like Damphousse, Hejduk, Franzén etc. wich is not bad players but they are not top25 players either.

For the guys you are talking about.

During this timespan Forsberg has won Hart, Art Ross, Cups, International golds you name it, he is definitly ahead of Selänne. Bure vs. Selääne would be an intresting debate but there is no doubt that he out produced Selänne specially in the playoffs. With Thornton you might have a point though.

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11-04-2010, 02:50 PM
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Selanne was at least on the ice when playoff time came instead of Forsberg who spend his time on IR.

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11-04-2010, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Selanne was at least on the ice when playoff time came instead of Forsberg who spend his time on IR.
Forsberg was on the ice for 151 career playoff games, himself.

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11-04-2010, 03:12 PM
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In how many of them was he fully recovered from injury and full healthy?

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11-04-2010, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by begbeee View Post
Selanne was at least on the ice when playoff time came instead of Forsberg who spend his time on IR.
He was on IR for 20 games. Don't make it sound like he was always injured during the playoffs. 20 games missed out of 171, geez.

Quote:
In how many of them was he fully recovered from injury and full healthy?
Doesn't matter as he still out produced Selänne.

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11-04-2010, 03:27 PM
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So only playoffs matter now, nothing else? I see...

And btw, It´s not like Selänne sucked in the playoffs, he has a Cup also.

Now I will stop debating, they are both great players after all.

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11-04-2010, 03:32 PM
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So only playoffs matter now, nothing else? I see...

And btw, It´s not like Selänne flat out sucked in the playoffs, he has a Cup also.
Who said that? It's an important part though.

He has a cup as maybe the Ducks 5th or 6th most valueable player if even that.

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11-04-2010, 03:46 PM
  #24
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As was said above, it is definetly harder to win a cup as a most valueable player of team when your 3rd and 4th most valuable players are Rucchin and Hebert.

BTW... In cup years was Forsberg arguably not better than 3rd or 4th most valuable player of Avs.

Put things into perspective.

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11-04-2010, 03:51 PM
  #25
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My list:

1. Dominik Hasek
2. Mario Lemieux
3. Jaromir Jagr
4. Nicklas Lidstrom
5. Steve Yzerman
6. Joe Sakic
7. Martin Brodeur
8. Patrick Roy
9. Chris Pronger
10. Sergei Fedorov
11. Chris Chelios
12. Joe Thornton
13. Peter Forsberg
14. Teemu Selanne
15. Eric Lindros
16. Brett Hull
17. Scott Stevens
18. Al MacInnis
19. Alexander Ovechkin
20. Brendan Shanahan
21. Ray Bourque
22. Jarome Iginla
23. Sidney Crosby
24. Ed Belfour
25. Mats Sundin

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