I think in my original post I mentioned that MAB shouldn't be used at even strength...Martin should play 7 D's and just play MAB on the PP.
That doesn't really work though. What team ever does that?
The guy just can't have his legs and synchronism on the PP if he just spent 18 minutes on the bench. I can see using him on a 4th line and on the PP, but even then you could see when we did this last year that he was actually not as efficient on the PP.
He could likely be used as a 7th D and be used occasionally at even strength, or work with 6D including him but have some other players double-shift when necessary. Guys like Subban, Markov and Gorges can all take pretty big minutes. Hamrlik and Gill can to some extent too, as long as it's not every night.
And honestly, the 1 goal for, 2 goals against thing is still quite exagerated. I really hated MAB on defense and I was not for bringing him back (not convinced I am now yet either), but it really wasn't that bad. It's more like 2 scoring chances for each goal, not 2 goals. But we still have a goalie, and about 1/5 scoring chances go in.
And Spacek right now is pretty much on a pace to give 50 times more scoring chances than goals he helps produce.
That doesn't really work though. What team ever does that?
The guy just can't have his legs and synchronism on the PP if he just spent 18 minutes on the bench. I can see using him on a 4th line and on the PP, but even then you could see when we did this last year that he was actually not as efficient on the PP.
He could likely be used as a 7th D and be used occasionally at even strength, or work with 6D including him but have some other players double-shift when necessary. Guys like Subban, Markov and Gorges can all take pretty big minutes. Hamrlik and Gill can to some extent too, as long as it's not every night.
And honestly, the 1 goal for, 2 goals against thing is still quite exagerated. I really hated MAB on defense and I was not for bringing him back (not convinced I am now yet either), but it really wasn't that bad. It's more like 2 scoring chances for each goal, not 2 goals. But we still have a goalie, and about 1/5 scoring chances go in.
And Spacek right now is pretty much on a pace to give 50 times more scoring chances than goals he helps produce.
Either way...I find it funny so many people are dismissing the idea of bringing MAB considering all the contributions he brought to the team at 800K last year. Sure he struggles defensively, but I don't think he's anymore/less of a liability than Spacek has been this year but I do think he brings an element that the Habs sorely need.
I don't think the idea of having 7 defensman is that far fetched...he doesn't have to sit on the bench either, guys like Gill/Hamrlik/Spacek could use a breather every now and then.
I'm sorry, but for having watched 95% of the game the Habs played in last year, I recall MAB contributing to alot more wins, either directly or indirectly, than him contributing to losses, either directly or indirectly.
I said this last year, got laughed at. Nice to see some people are starting to see that without a left handed guy that can one-time a puck, this PP is going no where.
Souray, Streit, Schneider, Bergeron... We need a guy like this.
I hope we sign him. Martin is good at matching lines anyways, it's not like he'll be playing against the other teams' top lines. Play him aginst the other teams 3rd/4th line and play him the full 2 mins on the PP and moé j'ai pas d'problème avec ça Pierre.
MAB would give me heartattacks when I watched him play D, but there is no question that he contributed A LOT to the PP and was actually a key factor on it. I can recall more than a handful of huge goals he scored for us.
Honestly, playing him as a 7D and taking a shift every now and then on the 4th line so he doesn't get cold would be fine with me.
Right now Subban hasn't showed that he can bury those shots...his windup also seems to take forever, whereas MAB actually has quite a quick release for such a huge shot. Subban isn't getting the respect from the opposition so everybody else seems crowded out there.
I would give it a few more weeks just to see how the PP goes, but after that MAB would be welcome back in my eyes.
MAB would give me heartattacks when I watched him play D, but there is no question that he contributed A LOT to the PP and was actually a key factor on it. I can recall more than a handful of huge goals he scored for us.
Honestly, playing him as a 7D and taking a shift every now and then on the 4th line so he doesn't get cold would be fine with me.
Right now Subban hasn't showed that he can bury those shots...his windup also seems to take forever, whereas MAB actually has quite a quick release for such a huge shot. Subban isn't getting the respect from the opposition so everybody else seems crowded out there.I would give it a few more weeks just to see how the PP goes, but after that MAB would be welcome back in my eyes.
The problem is that the goalies and the defense have time to adjust...by the time Markov gets the puck to Subban, and Subban readjusts himself into a shoot position, the opportunity to surprise the goalie and defense is gone.
With MAB (or Streit, or Schneider or Souray) the pass from Markov to MAB gets there and right away it's on net. The reason why Markov excels on the PP is because from his position on the left point, he excels at freezing the goalie and the defense. Take away Markov cross ice option and you limit his effectiveness.
It's plain to see...we've been watching this PP dominate teams for 5 years now using this exact recipe...i'm surprised to see people haven't caught on yet.
Believe it or not, It has already been done. Bergeron received a call from the Habs this past Monday. No actual offer was made, the Habs checked up on his health and what not.
Was it reported somewhere? Or do you have a source? If so, who is it?
I think in my original post I mentioned that MAB shouldn't be used at even strength...Martin should play 7 D's and just play MAB on the PP.
And we'll ice one less forward? Even though we're overstocked at forwards? I guess Darche sits out and then we have to play MAB as our 12th forward, and our lines are all screwed up and we have an unusable 4th line.
Either way...I find it funny so many people are dismissing the idea of bringing MAB considering all the contributions he brought to the team at 800K last year. Sure he struggles defensively, but I don't think he's anymore/less of a liability than Spacek has been this year but I do think he brings an element that the Habs sorely need.
I don't think the idea of having 7 defensman is that far fetched...he doesn't have to sit on the bench either, guys like Gill/Hamrlik/Spacek could use a breather every now and then.
I'm sorry, but for having watched 95% of the game the Habs played in last year, I recall MAB contributing to alot more wins, either directly or indirectly, than him contributing to losses, either directly or indirectly.
Totally agree
But given the immovable wave of hate going MAB's way, he'll probably need to bring our PP from near last to near first in the league a few more times before he gets any type of recognition. Better yet, he should be given a chance with another team, sign a big contract, and have people cry their Streit-scented tears of regret for him
id rather see hamrlik on the right point than MAB. they al;ready have 2 dmen in the press box and a 13th forward. they do not need to go sign anymore dead weight. work with what you have.
I'm not sure he is the solution, but it's certainly a better idea than resigning MAB
Yeah... I don't nessesarily think the problems are with the point men as much as it's our forwards who seem to have completely forgotten how to operate on the PP. Gionta and Gomez especially.
And we'll ice one less forward? Even though we're overstocked at forwards? I guess Darche sits out and then we have to play MAB as our 12th forward, and our lines are all screwed up and we have an unusable 4th line.
I'd rather have an 'unusable 4th line' and a lethal power play...than a 'usuable 4th line' and a inept PP.
Sigh...The Habs need a LEFT HANDED shot opposite Markov...not a right handed shot.
Also, I don't think the Habs can afford the luxury of waiting until December...the PP is 3 for 40 something right now, that's atrocious. I can honestly say that the last 2 losses can directly be attributed to a lack of production on the PP...how long are they going to risk losing more games like that?
As soon as MAB is healthy, I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see him contacted...
Very true, but I was envisioning Webber in the 2nd unit with Gorges on the right feeding his one timer. Can't imagine pulling PK and Marky off the 1st unit.
we obviously need him more than ever, because we just lost... thats a very smart solution. Lets forget about everything, MAB is back *****es!1
Wow...this is hilarious
Do you guys remember what MAB did for our PP last year? People wanna talk about Halak saving our season last year, and maybe so, but where would the Habs have been without MAB last year?
As crazy as that sounds, where would the Habs have been without him last year? You guys may have forgotten but on the last game of the year, where the Habs nearly choked away a game vs. the Leafs, it was MAB's PP goal which helped the Habs tie the game vs. the Leafs helping secure our playoff spot.
The ignorance on this board is nearly bliss....forget the guy who contributed 34pts in 60 games and help rescue our PP, which was our biggest asset on a team starved for even strength scoring, from last place in the NHL all the way to 2nd.
On the other end, I don't, because that mean the media people will think they more weight than they do, and might suggest stupid things like bringing back Dagenais for the shootouts.
Last year, MAB scored 13 goals. Gomez scored 12. That's $57, 692 per goal for MAB and $608,333 per goal for Scotty. And since Gomez is more of a passer, let's include assists. MAB: 34 points, SG 59 points; so $22,059 per point for MAB and $123,728 per point for Gomez. Seems cost effective.
I'm not sure he is the solution, but it's certainly a better idea than resigning MAB
MAB is a solution, but I agree.
Weber deserves a shot. He's a good player, he's doing great in the minors and, unlike MAB, could develop into a player we can use at 5 on 5 and on the PP.
MAB would essentially be that kid who couldn't skate from the Mighty Ducks. He only comes on the ice, fires a goal, and stumbles off. That's a pretty absurd use of resources since the guy probably needs to work up a sweat to get his timing right to pull those goals off.
If we're desperate for a PP choice, Weber is the first solution you try, otherwise you might as well just tell the kid "you're never coming up" and trade him for a bag of pucks.
And as to his shot side, I don't think this is rocket science. You put Markov on the right point, Weber on the left point and then they can one timer all they want. It also makes it easier for Markov to bury his back door plays since now he'd have his stick towards the inside, not the outside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BJG
Last year, MAB scored 13 goals. Gomez scored 12. That's $57, 692 per goal for MAB and $608,333 per goal for Scotty. And since Gomez is more of a passer, let's include assists. MAB: 34 points, SG 59 points; so $22,059 per point for MAB and $123,728 per point for Gomez. Seems cost effective.
Gomez also played 18 minutes a night, killed penalties and for whatever struggles he had on offense... he wasn't a defensive liability.
Nothing you said is incorrect, but it's a pretty narrow view of a guy's value.
We get it. Gomez is overpaid.
What exactly does that have to do with... anything?
I know some, check that, many of you aren't a big Marc-André Bergeron fan...but unless one of Spacek, Hamrlik, Gorges or Picards develops a one-time shot to play opposite Markov, they won't have a choice. The Habs have finally gotten to the point where they're not completely inept at even strength...on nights where they don't show up like vs. Florida & Columbus the last couple of day, a timely PP goal is what is needed.
The PP is a huge part of the Habs identity...
We have 8 NHL defensemen, I don't see MAB anywhere near the Habs this year. The PP is fine since Markov came back, just a matter of finishing a few plays.
I'm not that desperate yet. I've seen good puck movement, good possession, lots of scoring chances generated on the PP so far. Markov has only been back 2 games. I don't think the internal options have been exhausted yet. I think the exact same PP as we have used all year can break loose on a 7-for-13 streak at any moment, and then proceed to get back on a regular clip thereafter.
So I wouldn't give MAB a call. Not yet. I guess at some point the desperation level could rise and make it worth thinking about, but I doubt we ever reach that point. Who knows. There's good talent on this team, and there shouldn't be a need to fix things personnel wise. What do other teams do on their PP's? Not every team has Souray/Streit/MAB shooters out there. And yet they manage to succeed at rates above 10% right? The talent we have should be able to result in a decent conversion rate, in some permutation, without going back to the shooter crutch.
Gomez also played 18 minutes a night, killed penalties and for whatever struggles he had on offense... he wasn't a defensive liability.
Nothing you said is incorrect, but it's a pretty narrow view of a guy's value.
We get it. Gomez is overpaid.
What exactly does that have to do with... anything?
Exactly, playing that many minutes makes it even less excusable.
And it has to do with simple economics. Picking up MAB for next to nothing and using him appropriately would almost certainly increase the number of goals we score, while not increasing our spending much. More goals often leads to more wins, in my limited 35 years of watching hockey. And, again, if used solely on the PP, he would not be a defensive liability.
