Elz, the part about dumping him might be overreaction, but any observation of awful play is not overreaction. Duchene was simply terrible over the last half of the season. Not only his production, but he often floated at an Arnason-esque level. A very forgettable 2012 for that player.
I still believe he's going to be better at wing, with a net crasher on the opposite side.
-AB
Yeah, I don't think there's a single poster on these boards that will tell you his season was anything better than awful. The overreaction comes in trying to say that it's indicative of anything in his future, besides I guess maybe the contract he signs this summer.
Elz, the part about dumping him might be overreaction, but any observation of awful play is not overreaction. Duchene was simply terrible over the last half of the season. Not only his production, but he often floated at an Arnason-esque level. A very forgettable 2012 for that player.
I still believe he's going to be better at wing, with a net crasher on the opposite side.
-AB
And I would add that I still believe he would be better on the right side.
I was wondering if Colorado would be amendable to a trade with Toronto for Duchene in exchange for the 5th overall pick (barring lottery changes) and some combination of Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, Joe Colbourne, Nik Kulemin, Carl Gunnarson, Tyler Bozak, second rounder. Not all of them obviously, but the pick with two or three of the above.
If Grigs or Gally aren't available the Leafs might be inclined to trade the pick. And getting a young center who could step in right away, would be a huge coup.
That would presumably leave a choice between Filip Forsberg, Ryan Murray, Matt Dumba, Radek Faksa or Morgan Reilly at number 5.
I'm curious to see Chambers' article about the new contracts for players. Here is a quote from Duchene and O'Reilly, taken from Chambers' blog. I don't know the context they're from because its just a blog, but its funny how different the comments are.
Duchene:
Quote:
“Tough year to base what I’m worth, but I also had two pretty darn good years before this, and I’m only going to be better from this experience,” Duchene said. “I can’t emphasize enough how much I want to be a part of this franchise, but at the same time I have to do what’s right for me as well. I really hope things work out, and I’m sure they will. I’m hoping they still have me as a big part of the plan here. I know it’s tough when you have the second half like I had, with the injuries, and not being able to play through them all that well, but I’m all in for this team.”
O'Reilly:
Quote:
“I think the team is going to resign me, and I feel good.”
I lost whatever respect I had for Chambers after I saw this in his blog
Quote:
Finally, here’s hoping the Avs sign O’Brien, who is one of six UFAs.
Quote:
Yes, he committed some costly turnovers here and there, but you have to admire guys like him who want the puck on their stick in crucial situations, and is as tough and colorful.
I don't admire guys who suck that want the puck on their stick in crucial situations, instead I want them to let the guys on the team who are better than them to have the puck on their stick in crucial situations.
Even then I didn't have much respect for him after he called out Varly because Varly didn't want to talk to him after he allowed 6 goals in one night.
Plus with the Duchene quote I hope that he realizes just how bad he was this season and that he has to step it up big time next season.
And I would add that I still believe he would be better on the right side.
I believe they should put Duchene on the wing with Stastny and McGinn. That'd give Duchene a good defensive center, a good passing center, a tough guy going to the net, and two guys who can forecheck well - on his line.
And then Sacco would need to leave that damn line alone for a good couple of months, even if it doesn't bear fruit in the first 2 periods. Let Duchene get some chemistry going with someone.
I was wondering if Colorado would be amendable to a trade with Toronto for Duchene in exchange for the 5th overall pick (barring lottery changes) and some combination of Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, Joe Colbourne, Nik Kulemin, Carl Gunnarson, Tyler Bozak, second rounder. Not all of them obviously, but the pick with two or three of the above.
If Grigs or Gally aren't available the Leafs might be inclined to trade the pick. And getting a young center who could step in right away, would be a huge coup.
That would presumably leave a choice between Filip Forsberg, Ryan Murray, Matt Dumba, Radek Faksa or Morgan Reilly at number 5.
If Ryan Murray was still there maybe. If not, unlikely. Oh and Kessel or Gardiner would HAVE to be part of the package.
Yeah, I don't think there's a single poster on these boards that will tell you his season was anything better than awful. The overreaction comes in trying to say that it's indicative of anything in his future, besides I guess maybe the contract he signs this summer.
Well, I wouldn't pony up $4.5M (a number I saw in a post in here) for him.
I think a good analogy for those trying to defend Duchene, is the Sedins. They came into the league as skilled/finesse/floaters on a lousy team, didn't put up terribly good numbers early on, but then turned out fine. Duchene has also shown that he's a skilled/finesse/floater type of player, and he's on a mediocre team also.
I believe they should put Duchene on the wing with Stastny and McGinn. That'd give Duchene a good defensive center, a good passing center, a tough guy going to the net, and two guys who can forecheck well - on his line.
And then Sacco would need to leave that damn line alone for a good couple of months, even if it doesn't bear fruit in the first 2 periods. Let Duchene get some chemistry going with someone.
-AB
Yes I would really like that line although it would be at the expense of Jones who has shown often that he has chemistry with Stastny. You didn't mention who plays on the right side so I still want to stress that I would like Duchene on the right side as he seems to always end up on that side while he enters the offensive zone.
Regarding your second point, unfortunately I don't think Sacco will have the luxury to be able to wait a couple of months for a line to gel together, unless we are still winning due to our other lines. I expect him to be on a short leash next year so if people thought he wasn't keeping the lines together long enough before to get chemistry, wait for next year. I think the experiments will be even shorter. He will need chemistry quick to keep his job and that's why I think he will stick with McGinn - Stas - Jones and Lando - RoR - Downie if Jones stays of course.
Elz, the part about dumping him might be overreaction, but any observation of awful play is not overreaction. Duchene was simply terrible over the last half of the season. Not only his production, but he often floated at an Arnason-esque level. A very forgettable 2012 for that player.
I still believe he's going to be better at wing, with a net crasher on the opposite side.
-AB
AB,
No argument that he was pretty putrid this year, but its still way to early to consider him a bust or talk about
moving him.
And I concede that with the current make up of the team and coaching staff, he'd be more effective and a better fit on a lot of other teams. I'd say you have to give him until the next trade deadline before doing anything drastic.
I was wondering if Colorado would be amendable to a trade with Toronto for Duchene in exchange for the 5th overall pick (barring lottery changes) and some combination of Luke Schenn, Nazem Kadri, Joe Colbourne, Nik Kulemin, Carl Gunnarson, Tyler Bozak, second rounder. Not all of them obviously, but the pick with two or three of the above.
If Grigs or Gally aren't available the Leafs might be inclined to trade the pick. And getting a young center who could step in right away, would be a huge coup.
That would presumably leave a choice between Filip Forsberg, Ryan Murray, Matt Dumba, Radek Faksa or Morgan Reilly at number 5.
The Leafs would be a good fit for Duchene and would finally give them a first line centre. The problem lies in what the leafs could give up that would actually help the Avs, none of the players that you listed fit the bill.
Why do people still want Duchene at wing? He was on Stastny's wing for a significant portion of the season and he was awful, absolutely terrible there. It's quite obvious that he's a better center than a wing.
The Leafs would be a good fit for Duchene and would finally give them a first line centre. The problem lies in what the leafs could give up that would actually help the Avs, none of the players that you listed fit the bill.
Yeah what do you guys need exactly? If I was to guess it would be wingers. But then again, with so many players with expiring contracts on your team, there's a lot of flexibility so Sherman could acquire pretty much anyone if he really likes them.
Yeah what do you guys need exactly? If I was to guess it would be wingers. But then again, with so many players with expiring contracts on your team, there's a lot of flexibility so Sherman could acquire pretty much anyone if he really likes them.
A partner for EJ is by far our biggest need, a pure sniping top line winger would help to, but that's more something that'd be nice to have than a true need. Gardiner or Kessel are really the only two guys on your roster that fit the bill, and I wouldn't trade Duchene for either one straight up. Maybe Duchene and one of our defensive prospects for both, but not straight up.
A partner for EJ is by far our biggest need, a pure sniping top line winger would help to, but that's more something that'd be nice to have than a true need. Gardiner or Kessel are really the only two guys on your roster that fit the bill, and I wouldn't trade Duchene for either one straight up. Maybe Duchene and one of our defensive prospects for both, but not straight up.
25th in goals/game, 15th in goals against/game. Adding a partner for EJ will NOT put the puck in the net more. This team needs a scoring winger in the worst way.
25th in goals/game, 15th in goals against/game. Adding a partner for EJ will NOT put the puck in the net more. This team needs a scoring winger in the worst way.
Of course it would. If we signed Suter or traded for a guy like Enstrom or Gardiner we'd not just be even better in transition, we'd be better at holding the puck in the offensive zone and creating chances. Plus our forwards could concentrate more on producing offense than being ready to race back to cover for any screw ups along the blue line.
Then you look at the talent in relation to the results we got and you see that the current roster has much more forward talent than 25 in the league and you realize you can't say the same for the ratio between our defensemen's talent level and our GA. If Duchene and Mueller bounce back next season our skilled and deep top 9 will pot a lot more goals than last year, especially since we won't be starting the season with Chuck Kobasew and Daniel Winnik on our top 2 lines.
How do you improve the defense? None of our dmen other than EJ are worthy of being on the top pairing, none of our youngins will be ready to fill that role any time soon and none of the guys on the roster really have the ability to step up and fill that role, even if they have a "breakout" season. Wilson's the best bet we've got and I think he's best off on a bottom pairing.
if those guys are the guys we start next year with I don't see a really hole up front the way we desperately lack a top pairing left hander and puck moving skills from our blueline.
Of course it would. If we signed Suter or traded for a guy like Enstrom or Gardiner we'd not just be even better in transition, we'd be better at holding the puck in the offensive zone and creating chances. Plus our forwards could concentrate more on producing offense than being ready to race back to cover for any screw ups along the blue line.
But I think the fact that the Avs outshot their opponents by an average of 2 shots shows that, despite what happened the last few games, the transition game was not actually that bad. This team was 8th in the league in shots/game The D-men were getting the puck up to the forwards, and the forwards were generating plenty of shots, but the forwards were not finishing. I agree with avs1dacup. A winger that can just knock off the horsehockey and put the puck in the damn net is what this team needs most to be a contender this year. That's not to say that getting Suter wouldn't be great, but I'd rather see a sniper winger if the Avs can't get both.
Whether or not Duchene and Mueller return to form, it will still hold that the sniper winger will be a bigger difference maker than EJ's partner. Futhermore, relying on Duchene and Mueller boucing back sounds like a contingency plan to me. If the Avs get a sniper who's a sure thing for 30+, that's better then getting a top D-man and relying on Mueller and Duchene bouncing back.
The lines you have up there are no different from this season. This team is in dire need of a 30+ goal guy.
Of course it would. If we signed Suter or traded for a guy like Enstrom or Gardiner we'd not just be even better in transition, we'd be better at holding the puck in the offensive zone and creating chances. Plus our forwards could concentrate more on producing offense than being ready to race back to cover for any screw ups along the blue line.
So Suter would help Stastny not miss wide open nets? He'd help Duchene from shooting over or wide every change he gets? He'd help Hejduk stop hitting the goalie in the chest? Sorry, but a defenseman is NOT going to fix the enormous lack of finish on this team. Creating chances is great. But when you can't finish them, what does it matter? The team didn't lack chances most games. They lacked finishing those chances. It would be great to get a Suter if they can. No doubt. But they need to go hard after a guy that can score or next year is going to end with similar results as this year: running into "hot" goalies constantly.
Quote:
Then you look at the talent in relation to the results we got and you see that the current roster has much more forward talent than 25 in the league and you realize you can't say the same for the ratio between our defensemen's talent level and our GA. If Duchene and Mueller bounce back next season our skilled and deep top 9 will pot a lot more goals than last year, especially since we won't be starting the season with Chuck Kobasew and Daniel Winnik on our top 2 lines.
Mueller had all year to "bounce back". He was up and down. I expect no different next year. In all honesty, I'd rather they let him go and get someone better that will provide something on a regular basis.
So Suter would help Stastny not miss wide open nets? He'd help Duchene from shooting over or wide every change he gets? He'd help Hejduk stop hitting the goalie in the chest? Sorry, but a defenseman is NOT going to fix the enormous lack of finish on this team. Creating chances is great. But when you can't finish them, what does it matter? The team didn't lack chances most games. They lacked finishing those chances. It would be great to get a Suter if they can. No doubt. But they need to go hard after a guy that can score or next year is going to end with similar results as this year: running into "hot" goalies constantly.
Mueller had all year to "bounce back". He was up and down. I expect no different next year. In all honesty, I'd rather they let him go and get someone better that will provide something on a regular basis.
Parise isn't going to help Stastny score on wide open nets either. This is the first year in a long time the avs have struggled to score goals. Last year when they were the 2nd worst team in the league the avs were 15th in GF. A big part of the offense came from the defense, Shermy went a different way last summer with big defenseman and the offense dried up. I don't believe is a coincidence, in any case a franchise defender trumps a franchise winger everyday of the week. I also believe Suter is a top 5 dman, Parise on the other hand isn't a top 5 winger let alone forward.
Mueller played great once, he came back from the PCS. He just couldn't keep up because of his conditioning, he has all summer to fix that. The guy has missed 2 years of hockey and is now fully healthy. The avs won't be walking away now, after being so patient with him.
Parise isn't going to help Stastny score on wide open nets either.
You're right, he'll just do it himself.
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This is the first year in a long time the avs have struggled to score goals. Last year when they were the 2nd worst team in the league the avs were 15th in GF.
If it wasn't for starting the first half of the season at around a 4 goal/game clip, they would have been nowhere near 15th. In a matter of 2 months, they dropped from top 2 to middle of the pack. In fact, the 2nd half of the year was eerily similar to this whole season when it comes to goal scoring. They just couldn't get it done. It's no coincidence that they lose a 25-30 goal scorer and struggle to score goals last year. Then this year, they don't even have one on the roster and do the same.
Quote:
in any case a franchise defender trumps a franchise winger everyday of the week. I also believe Suter is a top 5 dman, Parise on the other hand isn't a top 5 winger let alone forward.
This isn't about Suter vs. Parise. This is about which position is of greater need. If they fill that #2 dman spot, they're still not going to be able to score goals and it's going to be the same song and dance as this year. All I'm saying is a sniper winger is MORE of a need than a partner for EJ.
Hoping he gets a chance to rebound from his rough season with a performance at the World Championships. But, given his injuries down the stretch I doubt that happens.
Would have to imagine that Landeskog plays for Sweden, though. Mueller and Stastny and Johnson all good candidates for USA. Varlamov for Russia too.
If it wasn't for starting the first half of the season at around a 4 goal/game clip, they would have been nowhere near 15th. In a matter of 2 months, they dropped from top 2 to middle of the pack. In fact, the 2nd half of the year was eerily similar to this whole season when it comes to goal scoring. They just couldn't get it done. It's no coincidence that they lose a 25-30 goal scorer and struggle to score goals last year. Then this year, they don't even have one on the roster and do the same.
If you take any team's best stretch it always look worse. The point is the avs can score goals. Not just last year but traditionally, we've never been this bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by avs1dacup
This isn't about Suter vs. Parise. This is about which position is of greater need. If they fill that #2 dman spot, they're still not going to be able to score goals and it's going to be the same song and dance as this year. All I'm saying is a sniper winger is MORE of a need than a partner for EJ.
My mistake then.
If the avs do sign Suter he wouldn't be a number 2, EJ would get bumped down. All I'm saying is that Suter would help the team a lot more than Parise IMO at least.
The Leafs would be a good fit for Duchene and would finally give them a first line centre. The problem lies in what the leafs could give up that would actually help the Avs, none of the players that you listed fit the bill.
No he wouldn't, he would be eating alive by the fans and media if he plays like he did this season.
If I had to pick one, I'd go with Suter because IMO our D needs more help. But I do think we still need another top 6 scoring winger...we'll see what they're willing to spend this year.
Last edited by forsbergavs32: 04-10-2012 at 11:45 PM.
