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Old
11-05-2010, 08:41 AM
  #1
luiginb
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Buf-tbl

Ryan Miller
conditional 2nd (if the Lightning don't make the Conference Finals)

for

Mike Smith
Victor Hedman
Steve Downie

Tampa gets the Vezina winner to solve their goaltending issues and become a legit contender (Ellis won't play the whole season as he has so far), and a conditional (probably very high) 2nd if this move doesn't pan off.

Buffalo must rebuild, so they get a young D with superstar potential to complement their other young D with superstar potential, an aggressive top 6er, and a mediocre starter, all under 28.

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Old
11-05-2010, 09:18 AM
  #2
Ghost of Dale Hunter
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I'd do this in a heartbeat.

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Old
11-05-2010, 09:34 AM
  #3
Irving Zisman
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Oui, oui!

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Old
11-05-2010, 10:04 AM
  #4
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Haha, oh man, yes please.

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Old
11-05-2010, 10:27 AM
  #5
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tampa says no.

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Old
11-05-2010, 10:30 AM
  #6
luiginb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KesselIsUnreal View Post
tampa says no.
Why? By the time Hedman or Downie reach their full potential, St Louis, Ohlund, Lecavalier, Gagne or Malone may be too old to compete for the Stanley. I think this may be their year, and with the stellar goaltending Miller can provide, their chances double.

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Old
11-05-2010, 10:32 AM
  #7
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I'd do it from Sabres POV

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Old
11-05-2010, 10:39 AM
  #8
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Hahah, no, no. This coming from someone who loves Miller. Just no.

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Old
11-05-2010, 11:15 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luiginb View Post
Ryan Miller
conditional 2nd (if the Lightning don't make the Conference Finals)

for

Mike Smith
Victor Hedman
Steve Downie

Tampa gets the Vezina winner to solve their goaltending issues and become a legit contender (Ellis won't play the whole season as he has so far), and a conditional (probably very high) 2nd if this move doesn't pan off.

Buffalo must rebuild, so they get a young D with superstar potential to complement their other young D with superstar potential, an aggressive top 6er, and a mediocre starter, all under 28.
I would do it from a Buffalo POV if we decide to rebuild. I really like Downie, a Hedman - Myers first pairing could be flat out SCARY a couple years down the line, and Smith is an okay starter who could at least bridge the gap to Enroth.

The Lightning probably wouldn't do this deal, but if they are going for it all this year, I suppose it's possible.

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Old
11-05-2010, 12:01 PM
  #10
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I'd love this deal, as long as Mike Smith decides to retire and the Sabres get a 3rd/4th instead.

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Old
11-05-2010, 12:54 PM
  #11
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done

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:18 PM
  #12
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Over all it is a pretty fair trade for both teams. TB is giving up some young talent but the goalie they are getting back. How much does this hurt TB losing a dmen and the grinder that every team needs.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:20 PM
  #13
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Hedman is our number 1 dman, we have already traded one of those away in the past few years....so no.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:23 PM
  #14
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The Lightning need a #1 goaltender, but I don't think we need Ryan Miller lol. SFY won't give away that much youth.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:23 PM
  #15
bassassin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Over all it is a pretty fair trade for both teams. TB is giving up some young talent but the goalie they are getting back. How much does this hurt TB losing a dmen and the grinder that every team needs.
You dont watch Downie, he isnt ust "the grinder", he is a spark plug, any line he plays on works, he never stops moving, he is an agitator yet has immense talent, he is a unique player. I honestly cannot think of another player like him in the NHL, there are pests sure, but none that are a key part of one of the top lines in the NHL.

Not just a dman, Hedman our 2nd overall pick from last year who logs 20+ minutes a night, very key to our breakout/transition and one of the best young dmen in the NHL. He has SO much potential. This isnt our year now, and even if it was this is not a fair trade.....the fact so many buffalo fans have said yes straight away should tell you that much.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:42 PM
  #16
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As a fan of neither team, I would do this if I was Tampa but not if I was Buffalo.

To draw a comparable, I would easily do Elliot + Cowen + Foligno/Regin + 1st for Miller.

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:47 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
To draw a comparable, I would easily do Elliot + Cowen + Foligno/Regin + 1st for Miller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
To draw a comparable (...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
(...) comparable (...)

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:54 PM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
I'm not sure your objection. The package I suggested is more valuable than Smith (not valuable), Hedman + Downie.

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11-05-2010, 01:59 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
I'm not sure your objection. The package I suggested is more valuable than Smith (not valuable), Hedman + Downie.
Well, I obviously disagree wholeheartedly. Smith isn't valuable, but neither is Elliott, given the market for that calibre of goalie. So in the end, I would much rather have Hedman + Downie than Cowen, Foligno/Regin, 1st.

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Old
11-05-2010, 02:01 PM
  #20
luiginb
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How in the world would Cowen and Regin/Foligno compare positively with Hedman and Downie? There isn't an aspect! As you could see, most BUF fans would do it, which I kind of find amazing as I thought this deal more in perspective of what TBL would need to be strong Stanley contender.

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Old
11-05-2010, 02:19 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Well, I obviously disagree wholeheartedly. Smith isn't valuable, but neither is Elliott, given the market for that calibre of goalie. So in the end, I would much rather have Hedman + Downie than Cowen, Foligno/Regin, 1st.
Personal preference. Then again, I never was very high on Hedman (remembering that he was outplayed by a younger Karlsson at the WJC, and despite his massive size never managed to dominate at that level - nor has he shown he'll dominate at the NHL level either), and Downie, while decent, is still just a top 6 forward at best. He had 22 goals and 46 points last year. Decent, but not outstanding, and one year does not a career make. Foligno/Regin are both players who have not yet hit that mark, but both have potential to be 20+ goal scorers. Add in the 1st Round Pick, and I tend to think it offsets.

It's worth noting, as well, that I think Cowen, fully recovered from his knee injury, is a *better player* than Victor Hedman. He would be in the AHL to start this year if he could have been; but he's a late birth date, and Ottawa wanted him to have the chance to develop his offensive game. Unlike many Senators posters, I rarely am willing to trade him away for a package unless it's an elite player in return.

The value is comparable. It's not exact, but close enough.

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Old
11-05-2010, 02:24 PM
  #22
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ROFL no way Tampa pulls the trigger on this one. Their meanest top 6 forward, their starting goalie and a franchise goalie. All for a proven goalie? Insane.

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Old
11-05-2010, 02:26 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Personal preference. Then again, I never was very high on Hedman (remembering that he was outplayed by a younger Karlsson at the WJC, and despite his massive size never managed to dominate at that level - nor has he shown he'll dominate at the NHL level either), and Downie, while decent, is still just a top 6 forward at best. He had 22 goals and 46 points last year. Decent, but not outstanding, and one year does not a career make. Foligno/Regin are both players who have not yet hit that mark, but both have potential to be 20+ goal scorers. Add in the 1st Round Pick, and I tend to think it offsets.

It's worth noting, as well, that I think Cowen, fully recovered from his knee injury, is a *better player* than Victor Hedman. He would be in the AHL to start this year if he could have been; but he's a late birth date, and Ottawa wanted him to have the chance to develop his offensive game. Unlike many Senators posters, I rarely am willing to trade him away for a package unless it's an elite player in return.

The value is comparable. It's not exact, but close enough.
The package you listed doesn't come close to Hedman and Downie, sorry. Franchise defenseman and a top 6 forward with Downies rare set of skills are hard to come by.

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Old
11-05-2010, 02:31 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by TB_FANATIC View Post
The package you listed doesn't come close to Hedman and Downie, sorry. Franchise defenseman and a top 6 forward with Downies rare set of skills are hard to come by.
20 goals/45 points is barely top 6 forward, it's much closer to top 9. I also dispute that Hedman is a franchise d-man, though I concede it's possible. It's worth noting though that the equivalent proposal also offered up similar players.

Cowen, no knee injury, would have gone in the top 3 in his draft year. Like Hedman, he's a big man who can skate with offensive upside.

Foligno is very much a similar style of player to Downie. If you look at their minor league statistics, they have nearly identical goals/points/PIM. Regin is our top offensive prospect, but admittedly plays a different style of game.

1st is just an equalizer on the grounds that, Downie and Hedman have an extra year of NHL experience.

Whether you like your players or not, the offer IS comparable. In any event, the only point was, despite my LIKING those players, I would easily trade them for someone like Ryan Miller; just like I would easily trade Hedman and Downie, who are good, not great.

The only players I wouldn't trade for Miller are Spezza and Karlsson from Ottawa's point of view, and from Tampa's I wouldn't trade Lecavalier or Stamkos.

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Old
11-05-2010, 02:33 PM
  #25
luiginb
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ROFL no way Tampa pulls the trigger on this one. Their meanest top 6 forward, their starting goalie and a franchise goalie. All for a proven goalie? Insane.
You mean their 1A goalie and *potentially* franchise defenseman. For the en-titre Vezina trophy holder, that's only 30, has been steadily good throughout his entire career, and is also a little underpaid, it isn't such a bad deal.

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