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Iginla offered to Kings?

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Old
11-07-2010, 07:43 PM
  #51
Johnny Hoxville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanford and Sons View Post
He's a 33 year old power forward who, after falling apart in the second half of the season last year, seems to be following the same trend this year. He's a declining commodity because he's peaked. Players usually don't get better when they get close to 35, most GM's in the NHL aren't that stupid.



GM's usually don't take on a 7 million cap hit (with 3 years left I think) with the idea in mind that they'll have to spend another 5-7 million just to make a player effective. While it isn't always a bad thing for a player to need high quality line mates to be among the best in the NHL, it should reduce the trade value when a change in support cast causes such a stark change in performance.



Jarome is also a nice guy and has a great smile, which would make him more popular certainly but his intangibles are overrated. Where were they last season when the team desperately needed offense in the second half? Where were the intangibles that Iginla brings in the last four games? Non existent.

When the captain is the difference between the team placing 5th or 10th in the previous season and now the difference between 3rd and 13th, their intangibles are not worth mentioning.
If Iginla was traded, he would be traded to a team that is a contender and already has a supporting cast, there would not be a need to spend an additional 5-7 million for find talent to help Iginla out (ie. Kings).

I think GM's in the NHL can look at what is going on with the Flames and realize that Iginla is not the Flames only problem. He is not playing in an environment that is conducive for him to maximize his talent. Yes he is getting older, but he can still be a top player in the league. The truth is no one knows what is going on with Iginla and why he is not producing up to his expectations. But to suggest that he is incapable of producing at a high level anymore is foolish IMO.

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Old
11-07-2010, 07:49 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
Rick Nash has been a top player the NHL for years with no supoorting cast.



Great players make their teammates better.

Yet Iggy, supposedly on the NHL's top players, need some star like Crosby feeding him the puck to make him productive.

Iggy should be the one who's making his linemates better. Otherwise, he's just a supporting player.
What has Rick Nash ever done that is so great besides potting 41 goals one season? Cheechoo got 54 once too I believe. Your example of Nash is actually the perfect equivalent to Iginla for why it is so important for an elite player to have a supporting cast. Iginla has always made his linemates have career years, up until the second half of last season. Is capable of carrying the Calgary Flames anymore on his own, probably not. But he may be at the stage in his career where finally needs an equal player of his talent to help him produce at a high standard.

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11-08-2010, 03:07 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
If Iginla was traded, he would be traded to a team that is a contender and already has a supporting cast, there would not be a need to spend an additional 5-7 million for find talent to help Iginla out (ie. Kings).
If he is a rental player, sure but rentals don't have 2-3 years left on their contracts. Reality is, he could go to any team that has room or is willing to make room under the cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I think GM's in the NHL can look at what is going on with the Flames and realize that Iginla is not the Flames only problem. He is not playing in an environment that is conducive for him to maximize his talent.
How good do his line mates have to be to get something out of his talent then? He gets paired with someone who has previously played at a point per game level and he explodes, one of the best in the league, next season he's playing with 60 point players and he's not among the top 30.

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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Yes he is getting older, but he can still be a top player in the league. The truth is no one knows what is going on with Iginla and why he is not producing up to his expectations. But to suggest that he is incapable of producing at a high level anymore is foolish IMO.
I'm not suggesting that he cannot produce at that level anymore, in fact I was careful to not state it because I cannot be certain. The bolded part you typed, if true, if it was it would destroy his trade value to the point where only a GM desperate for a fix would give anything worthwhile for him. It doesn't make sense that a player suffering problems without any foreseeable manner of fixing them would return something significant.

He's been playing poorly long enough now that combined with his age and the fact that he's known for playing a style of game that's punishing on the body that his future is up in the air, he's a risk and a smart GM will see him as that. His risk, combined with the apparent fact that he needs support to live up to his contract, combined with so many uncertainties about his performance and the fact that they'll have to fit in his contract over a couple more years will hurt his trade value, dramatically.

Best return will be a couple overpriced players with cap hits that need to be moved, and maybe a solid prospect with a high chance of playing in the NHL at some point. If we get a single 60+ point player out of it, it would be a good return.

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Old
11-08-2010, 01:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by artysmith View Post
I like simmonds, and schenn. And LA is a high contender, and Iggy realyl deserves a cup, so it would be awesome to see Iggy go to LA, and based on this rumor, it seems the Kings are willing to return the most value, so I say maybe the proposal flames123 made might be fair.

or something like this.


to CGY:

Wayne Simmonds

Brayden Schenn

Brandon Kozun (Come on you know you loved him on the hitmen)

pick (Conditional or 2nd?)

to LA

Iginla

Pelech OR another prospect.

4th



Thoughts?
Not gonna happen, Dean Lombardi would have to smoking the good **** to even consider something like that.

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Old
11-08-2010, 02:14 PM
  #55
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From a prospect standpoint, I would be wary of overvaluing prospects in a deal for a guy like Iginla.

It would be a better bet that Iginla would score (in 2.5 seasons) over 100 goals for the Kings and help them win numerous playoff series. Less of a sure bet is players like Schenn being a #1 center, Simmonds top 6 30 goal winger, Hickey 60 point dman, Moller two way reliable 50 point player.

Here's some past hyped up prospects (before they were NHL regulars) - Anthony Stewart, Tuomo Ruuttu, Brad Stuart, Gilbert Brule, Stephen Weiss, CHuck Kobasew, Scottie Upshall.

If they were prospects today most fans of the teams that held them would say no way to trading them for a 33 year old star winger having a tough time.

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Old
11-08-2010, 02:40 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
From a prospect standpoint, I would be wary of overvaluing prospects in a deal for a guy like Iginla.

It would be a better bet that Iginla would score (in 2.5 seasons) over 100 goals for the Kings and help them win numerous playoff series. Less of a sure bet is players like Schenn being a #1 center, Simmonds top 6 30 goal winger, Hickey 60 point dman, Moller two way reliable 50 point player.

Here's some past hyped up prospects (before they were NHL regulars) - Anthony Stewart, Tuomo Ruuttu, Brad Stuart, Gilbert Brule, Stephen Weiss, CHuck Kobasew, Scottie Upshall.

If they were prospects today most fans of the teams that held them would say no way to trading them for a 33 year old star winger having a tough time.
You're completely underestimating Simmonds value to the team. You totally forgot how much of a cap hit Iginla would have at his age. I would say sending Schenn would be justified, along with Kozun with a 1st round but sending Simmonds over? No way.

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Old
11-08-2010, 02:53 PM
  #57
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Its a good deal for both teams. But the Kings won´t do it. The main reason they won´t do it is because GM Lombardi has always stated that he will not go for quick fix solutions by sacrificing his youth. True he tried to acquire Kovalchuk, but that would have been MUCH less of a gamble than trading for Iggy, especially when you consider the assets that would be going back Calgary´s way and Iggy´s declining production.

The Flames would lose alot of character by trading away Iggy, but this is the type of deal that gives them players that might actually fill that leadership role at some point in the near future.

Don´t underrate Thomas Hickey in this deal: he would be an integral chip in this deal if it were, in fact, proposed by the Flames side. Its Loktionov and the 1st Farm that are just the additions. Hickey and Schenn have mad leadership skills and chips on thier shoulders. Hickey, as you might remember, is a Calgarian as well - for what that is worth.

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11-08-2010, 03:11 PM
  #58
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Something that goes back to Iginla's 2004 contract year:

Quote:
If they cant afford him, make any offers for him now.

TO NEW JERSEY: IGINLA AND 5TH RD PK IN 2005.
TO CALGARY: GOMEZ. LANGENBRUNNER, PARISE AND 1ST RD PK 2005.
Hell yes! The 1st rounder was Bergfors. TJ Oshie was avaliable as well.

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11-09-2010, 04:28 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Body Checker View Post
From a prospect standpoint, I would be wary of overvaluing prospects in a deal for a guy like Iginla.

It would be a better bet that Iginla would score (in 2.5 seasons) over 100 goals for the Kings and help them win numerous playoff series. Less of a sure bet is players like Schenn being a #1 center, Simmonds top 6 30 goal winger, Hickey 60 point dman, Moller two way reliable 50 point player.

Here's some past hyped up prospects (before they were NHL regulars) - Anthony Stewart, Tuomo Ruuttu, Brad Stuart, Gilbert Brule, Stephen Weiss, CHuck Kobasew, Scottie Upshall.

If they were prospects today most fans of the teams that held them would say no way to trading them for a 33 year old star winger having a tough time.
Hickey a 60 point dman? heh.....dunno about that one.

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11-09-2010, 04:28 PM
  #60
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How about trade with the Red Wings?

I thought this very long time, it's hard to get reasonable trade with salary cap -wise.

This is what I got on the table:

Calgary:
RW Jarome Iginla

Detroit:
C Valtteri Filppula
LW Jiri Hudler
D Jonathan Ericsson
C Cory Emmerton
+ some pick

Detroit offers younger roster talent and one prospect. Filppula+Hudler+Ericsson are 6.7 million with caphits and Iginla is 7.0 million (+2 x 500k for replacement players). Red Wings have the capspace to use replament players (Ilari Filppula + Doug Janik), if they keep Kris Draper at long-time injury reserve the whole season.

At Red Wings side, Iginla replaces Filppula's roster spot and Zetterberg goes back to center. Hudler is struggling at the moment and basically out of roster. Change of scenery and bigger role could get him back on track. Jakub Kindl can replace Jonathan Ericsson easily, it's just waste of development to keep the Czech defenseman on the bench.

Red Wings have the next prospect wave coming after 2012, so they can afford to let many roster players go to get one star player.

After trade:

Franzen - Datsyuk - Iginla
Bertuzzi - Zetterberg - Holmström
Abdelkader - Modano - Cleary
Miller - Helm - Eaves
(I.Filppula, Mursak)

Lidström - Stuart
Kronwall - Rafalski
Salei - Kindl
(Janik, Smith)

Howard
Osgood

Is there any sense Detroit would do this?
Is there any sense Calgary would do this?

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11-09-2010, 04:47 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Calgary:
RW Jarome Iginla

Detroit:
C Valtteri Filppula
LW Jiri Hudler
D Jonathan Ericsson
C Cory Emmerton
+ some pick

Is there any sense Detroit would do this?
Is there any sense Calgary would do this?
its a hell no from the Flames... Flip is a $3,000,000 3rd liner... Hudler is a 2nd liner that has bolted for Russia once already... Ericsson has yet to play a full NHL season @ the age of 26... and Emmerton projects to be a 3rd liner at best... even if that pick is a 1st the Flames say no...

let me counter...

1st in 2011
Tomas Tatar
Jiri Hudler
Salary Dump(s)

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11-09-2010, 05:03 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
its a hell no from the Flames... Flip is a $3,000,000 3rd liner... Hudler is a 2nd liner that has bolted for Russia once already... Ericsson has yet to play a full NHL season @ the age of 26... and Emmerton projects to be a 3rd liner at best... even if that pick is a 1st the Flames say no...

let me counter...

1st in 2011
Tomas Tatar
Jiri Hudler
Salary Dump(s)
Filppula 3rd liner and plays 2nd line at one of the NHL's best teams...? Yeah right...

Ericsson has more playoff experience (34 games) than the Flames (26 games) since lockout...

Does not work with cap-wise. Salary dumps would be Stuart/Kronwall/Filppula. They are great players, not dumps. Other Red Wing big contracts have NTC/NMC.

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Old
11-09-2010, 05:20 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Filppula 3rd liner and plays 2nd line at one of the NHL's best teams...? Yeah right...

Ericsson has more playoff experience (34 games) than the Flames (26 games) since lockout...

Does not work with cap-wise. Salary dumps would be Stuart/Kronwall/Filppula. They are great players, not dumps. Other Red Wing big contracts have NTC/NMC.
The Flames don't need more mid level talent though, and the guys you list would be no better than those already on the roster. If Iginla goes it has to be for another star (unlikely) or picks and prospects, with salary moving to Calgary in most cases as well, since most teams don't have cap space.

You'll also need to take on some contracts if sending a package, as the Flames are at the maximum. Would be career AHL / ECHL players for the most part. ( might discourage some teams with internal spending limits )

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Old
11-09-2010, 06:53 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Filppula 3rd liner and plays 2nd line at one of the NHL's best teams...? Yeah right...

Ericsson has more playoff experience (34 games) than the Flames (26 games) since lockout...

Does not work with cap-wise. Salary dumps would be Stuart/Kronwall/Filppula. They are great players, not dumps. Other Red Wing big contracts have NTC/NMC.
you have a very loose definition of 'great players'

and if it doesn't work cap wise... make a trade elsewhere to amke room... because we don't want your mid-level players

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Old
11-09-2010, 10:41 PM
  #65
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The only thing that makes sense is young blood, prospects or picks. If the Flames trade Iggy its a sign of a rebuild and it makes no sense to get players in return that have age on them.

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Old
11-10-2010, 10:15 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Filppula 3rd liner and plays 2nd line at one of the NHL's best teams...? Yeah right...

Ericsson has more playoff experience (34 games) than the Flames (26 games) since lockout...

Does not work with cap-wise. Salary dumps would be Stuart/Kronwall/Filppula. They are great players, not dumps. Other Red Wing big contracts have NTC/NMC.
I could defeinitly get behind a trade centred around Filppula, that guy is exactly what this team needs.

However you have to provide better pieces than Ericsson and Huddler. Work around Tatar and Abdelkader, obviously a salary dump needs to come back.

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11-10-2010, 03:45 PM
  #67
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I could defeinitly get behind a trade centred around Filppula, that guy is exactly what this team needs.

However you have to provide better pieces than Ericsson and Huddler. Work around Tatar and Abdelkader, obviously a salary dump needs to come back.
if we're trading Iginla it will not be for a package centered around a 26 year old with a career high of 40 points... his contract @ $3,000,000 is no better than Jokinen's which everyone likes to complain about... mid-late 20s players who are not and never will be 1st liners are not the answer as trading Iggy would signify a rebuild...

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11-10-2010, 03:50 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
its a hell no from the Flames... Flip is a $3,000,000 3rd liner... Hudler is a 2nd liner that has bolted for Russia once already... Ericsson has yet to play a full NHL season @ the age of 26... and Emmerton projects to be a 3rd liner at best... even if that pick is a 1st the Flames say no...

let me counter...

1st in 2011
Tomas Tatar
Jiri Hudler
Salary Dump(s)
Flips is an excellent #2 center. He is great two way and plays hard. Think Stajan type. If anything you guys should take a look at Jan Mursak and Jakub Kindl. Tatar is someone I would be interested to see in a Flames unifrom in this kind of trade.

I don't think Hudler would play very well in Calgary either.

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11-10-2010, 04:14 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Flips is an excellent #2 center. He is great two way and plays hard. Think Stajan type. If anything you guys should take a look at Jan Mursak and Jakub Kindl. Tatar is someone I would be interested to see in a Flames unifrom in this kind of trade.

I don't think Hudler would play very well in Calgary either.
so why do we need Flip if we already have Stajan?... the difference between the 2 is Stajan has actually produced more than 40 points at the NHL level

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11-10-2010, 04:19 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
Rick Nash has been a top player the NHL for years with no supoorting cast.



Great players make their teammates better.

Yet Iggy, supposedly on the NHL's top players, need some star like Crosby feeding him the puck to make him productive.

Iggy should be the one who's making his linemates better. Otherwise, he's just a supporting player.
Quit citing players like Rick Nash when comparing players to Iginla. Since the lockout Iginla has 417 pts., and 191 goals. Nash has 326 pts., and 169 goals. Nash seems to be everyones favorite player to mention in comparison yet he doesn't compare statistically and Nash in no way ever makes players around him better. Players like Tanguay and Cammalerri had their best seasons ever playing with Iginla so I believe he makes other players around him better.

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11-10-2010, 05:11 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Beatle17 View Post
Quit citing players like Rick Nash when comparing players to Iginla. Since the lockout Iginla has 417 pts., and 191 goals. Nash has 326 pts., and 169 goals. Nash seems to be everyones favorite player to mention in comparison yet he doesn't compare statistically and Nash in no way ever makes players around him better. Players like Tanguay and Cammalerri had their best seasons ever playing with Iginla so I believe he makes other players around him better.
Langkow, Huselius and Conroy also had career best years playing with Iginla

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11-10-2010, 05:25 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
so why do we need Flip if we already have Stajan?... the difference between the 2 is Stajan has actually produced more than 40 points at the NHL level
We don't. But I'm just saying hes not a 3rd liner

But Flips is much better two way.

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11-10-2010, 05:50 PM
  #73
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We don't. But I'm just saying hes not a 3rd liner

But Flips is much better two way.
40 points are 3rd line numbers, until he surpasses that I won't consider him more than a 3rd liner... and 3 million for 40 points is a waste of cap space

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11-10-2010, 06:38 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
40 points are 3rd line numbers, until he surpasses that I won't consider him more than a 3rd liner... and 3 million for 40 points is a waste of cap space
Fair enough.

Though do keep in mind that last season was the first time flippers got regular time as the 2nd line center but then he got injured. He was well on his way past the 40 point mark though for the season. He is playing regular 2nd line minutes now and has been playing solid defensively.

But to reiterate, as much as I like Flippers, we have enough 2nd liners already in Calgary. But then again look at Mikael Sammuelsson, was a 3rd line player for the Wings and is a top line for the Nucks. Its hard to get much ice time when you play behind guys like Z and Dats who can play all situations.

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11-10-2010, 10:22 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Fair enough.

Though do keep in mind that last season was the first time flippers got regular time as the 2nd line center but then he got injured. He was well on his way past the 40 point mark though for the season. He is playing regular 2nd line minutes now and has been playing solid defensively.

But to reiterate, as much as I like Flippers, we have enough 2nd liners already in Calgary. But then again look at Mikael Sammuelsson, was a 3rd line player for the Wings and is a top line for the Nucks. Its hard to get much ice time when you play behind guys like Z and Dats who can play all situations.
While you make some good points that he is good all around player, but the Flames are not in a position to take a gamble on someone if Iginla is traded. They are much better to target a bluechip prospect ie. Schenn and aquire a 1st round pick in the process. Personally I would trade Iggy for Simmonds, Schenn and a 1st round pick and a conditional pick the following year depending on Iginla's production.

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