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06-11-2004, 10:18 AM
  #1
Park #2
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RJ Umberger

Apparently, 3 teams have offered him the rookie maximum contract. One of those teams is the Philadelphia Flyers. Two teams have offered a contract less then the rookie maximum, one of those teams is the Penguins. The Rangers ARE involved in this process.

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06-11-2004, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park #2
Apparently, 3 teams have offered him the rookie maximum contract. One of those teams is the Philadelphia Flyers. Two teams have offered a contract less then the rookie maximum, one of those teams is the Penguins. The Rangers ARE involved in this process.

What are the odds of him signing on with NY?

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06-11-2004, 10:24 AM
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A kid with this type of potential that can be added for NOTHING at 21 yrs old should and will get the rookie maximum.

Same thing we did with Pock who also reportedly got the rookie max.

I said it many times about RJ.He plays a position that we are by far thinnest at and when you factor in his above average size and build it's really a no-brainer to get this done IMO.

Other that Jessiman he would be the only guy with size and top 2 line potential.I think that RJ will be at least an above average 2nd line center that provides good offense.

I really hope Slats was just looking to secure the 2nd rd pick and that he plans are going all out to get another possible young stud into the fold which only makes sense at the point we're at as an organization.

Get it done Slats you a-hole.

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06-11-2004, 10:34 AM
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Even if we offer him the full Rookie Max we still have to hope he choses us over pitt and philly and we all just have to hope that the whole ranger organization put a good impact into the kid while he was here so that this is where he wants to play

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06-11-2004, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dgrohl8
Even if we offer him the full Rookie Max we still have to hope he choses us over pitt and philly and we all just have to hope that the whole ranger organization put a good impact into the kid while he was here so that this is where he wants to play

Why would anybody sign in Pitt with all the uncertainty???

There's currently a story about Mario telling people at a golf outing that he's talking to possible buyers about them buying and reloctaing the Pens if the city doesn't give him a ton of $$$ for the new arena so with this type of stuff I think the hometown boy will have to take this into consideration.

Philly would be attractive but I think he'd get more playing time with us.

The kid is in the driver seat right now and as I said all along he will get that rookie max.I hope Slats told him he'd match any offer, that he just wanted to get the 46th pick but not to sign w/anybody until giving the NYR's a chance to match or surpass it.

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06-11-2004, 10:39 AM
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i'm hoping that slats told them to call him up if they get an offer from another team so that slats can just give him more and sign him. if he waited to get the pick, and can sign RJ, then i will give him a lot of credit. personally i don't think we'll end up signing him, but i hope we do.

and i doubt he'd want to go to philly because he probably won't be guaranteed a spot in the lineup, whereas in NY and pitt, he essentially is.

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06-11-2004, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanMan
i'm hoping that slats told them to call him up if they get an offer from another team so that slats can just give him more and sign him. if he waited to get the pick, and can sign RJ, then i will give him a lot of credit. personally i don't think we'll end up signing him, but i hope we do.

and i doubt he'd want to go to philly because he probably won't be guaranteed a spot in the lineup, whereas in NY and pitt, he essentially is.

If RJ receives the rookie max, how is Slats going to pay him more? What's more, I wouldn't give Sather the righ to match or beat an offer. He's had since the trading deadline to get something done. If Sather plays hardball, expect Lawton/Umberger to do the same.

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06-11-2004, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Park #2
Apparently, 3 teams have offered him the rookie maximum contract. One of those teams is the Philadelphia Flyers. Two teams have offered a contract less then the rookie maximum, one of those teams is the Penguins. The Rangers ARE involved in this process.
Come on Park, tell us which group we're in.

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06-11-2004, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
If RJ receives the rookie max, how is Slats going to pay him more? What's more, I wouldn't give Sather the righ to match or beat an offer. He's had since the trading deadline to get something done. If Sather plays hardball, expect Lawton/Umberger to do the same.

The rookie max is nonsense as you can just improve upon the easily reached incentives included.

As for Slats having all this time I think Lawton and RJ understand that he wanted the 46th pick as well and that if both sides wanted eachother that it makes no difference whether he signed a month ago or in 3 weeks from now.

If I were RJ and wanted to sign with the NYR's I'd tell them to go get the pick and that we'd take care of buisness in July as I'd want the team I'm going to to get a potential asset to improve in the 46th overall.

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06-11-2004, 10:49 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
If RJ receives the rookie max, how is Slats going to pay him more? What's more, I wouldn't give Sather the righ to match or beat an offer. He's had since the trading deadline to get something done. If Sather plays hardball, expect Lawton/Umberger to do the same.
well obviously if he gets the rookie max he can only match it. but slats could also give him more bonuses or something. what i was thinking was that nobody would offer him the max, unless they got into a bidding war, which i doubt would happen. i agree with you that if sather was trying to hardball me i'd probably give him the stiff, but who knows.

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06-11-2004, 11:15 AM
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i'm shocked to hear that anyone offered him the max...i didn't think he was going to get that from anyone based no his perceived attitude problem and missing a year...

just wondering what is the source on this?? basically what i'm wondering is whether this info is coming from his agent telling people that he is getting offers for the max or are their unbiased team/league officials saying this?

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06-11-2004, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
i'm shocked to hear that anyone offered him the max...
What's there to be shocked about? #16 overall pick, top-2 line potential, size that is ready for the NHL. The only shocking thing is the amount of Ranger fans that somehow think that the #46 pick and saving several $100k is somehow a better choice. I said from the beginning that after all the poor ways that Jackass found to spend money, signing RJ represented a very good risk and a good way to spend $$$. For an organization that is so low on top-end prospects, to just turn away from Umberger was incredibly short-sighted.

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06-11-2004, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
i'm shocked to hear that anyone offered him the max...i didn't think he was going to get that from anyone based no his perceived attitude problem and missing a year..
Yah, but IF the Rangers are one of the teams to have offered it, then other GM's know what Sather's opinion of him is. Obviously, if he's taken a very close look and has chose to make the offer, they get a better feeling for his value.

My guess is that we were one of the teams to lowball him, if for no other reason, than to try and drive his value down further. Now that Clarke and 2 others have offered the max, I guess it didn't work.

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06-11-2004, 11:42 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
What's there to be shocked about? #16 overall pick, top-2 line potential, size that is ready for the NHL. The only shocking thing is the amount of Ranger fans that somehow think that the #46 pick and saving several $100k is somehow a better choice. I said from the beginning that after all the poor ways that Jackass found to spend money, signing RJ represented a very good risk and a good way to spend $$$. For an organization that is so low on top-end prospects, to just turn away from Umberger was incredibly short-sighted.
I'm with TB 150% here..on everything...I wouldn't be shocked one iota.....Paying the rookie max is chump change---especially for NY, especially for a POTENTIAL top 6 forward---and especially when the rookie max is going to be changed and lowered in the new CBA, so there should be no fear of precedent setting....

Low-balling kids is just the way the smug, sanctimonious Sather operates...In the past, though, it didn't matter because the player couldn't switch teams or sign elsewhere and it became a waiting game....Things are diffeent here and RJ can do whatever he pleases....And a low ball offer in this case can just make the kid/agent say "**, you had your chance"...Hopefully, none of this comes to pass and Sather used his brain, or the half of it that he has, for the RJ situation..We shall see..

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06-11-2004, 12:07 PM
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if you didn't notice 2 teams had a chance to sign umberger and didn't think he was worth the $$ he was asking for and he wasn't asking for the max from vancouver...now why is that?? if signing him for the max is such an easy decision and such a bargain why didn't the rangers or canucks offer it to him??

we can talk about him being the 16th pick and his size and his potential and all of that, but bottom line is there has got to be something about him that vancouver & the rangers weren't crazy about or he would have just been signed...

but don't get me wrong, by saying i'm surprised that he got offered the max, i did NOT mean in anyway that i didn't think that was too much or that i wouldn't give him that much. but rather based on his negative reputation, the changing financial climate and the likelihood that entry level salaries will be lowered under the new cba i expected umberger to find the market was lower than he expected...my thinking all along was that sather would let him test the market and then either match or top the offers he was getting. so i now expect the rangers to offer him the max

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06-11-2004, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
if you didn't notice 2 teams had a chance to sign umberger and didn't think he was worth the $$ he was asking for and he wasn't asking for the max from vancouver...now why is that?? if signing him for the max is such an easy decision and such a bargain why didn't the rangers or canucks offer it to him??

we can talk about him being the 16th pick and his size and his potential and all of that, but bottom line is there has got to be something about him that vancouver & the rangers weren't crazy about or he would have just been signed...

but don't get me wrong, by saying i'm surprised that he got offered the max, i did NOT mean in anyway that i didn't think that was too much or that i wouldn't give him that much. but rather based on his negative reputation, the changing financial climate and the likelihood that entry level salaries will be lowered under the new cba i expected umberger to find the market was lower than he expected...my thinking all along was that sather would let him test the market and then either match or top the offers he was getting. so i now expect the rangers to offer him the max
This means absolutley nothing...Because one other team didn't offer the Max means he ain't worth it? Burke, who wasn't retained BTW, operates the same exact way as Sather does with bombastic, buffonery blustering bullying a big part of his repotoire.....And from all I read of the RJ-Vancouver situation, Burke was as stubbnorn as one could get with zero room for negotiation while trying to prove a point.....ANd for this Umberger gets a "negative reputation"? Well, if 3 teams are offering the rookine max now, it just might show the arrogance and errors od Sather/Burke and that this reputation thing was a tad overblown.....But, nothing will be proven until Umberger is signed AND performs...

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06-11-2004, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR469
if signing him for the max is such an easy decision and such a bargain why didn't the rangers or canucks offer it to him??
Apparently, Burke saw enough in him to take him 16 overall. Who knows why he did not sign them. As for the Rangers, why indeed? Becuase Sather is a Jackass. Becuase low-balling kids is EXACTLY his mo.
Kind of funny becuase for all the crap we heep onto Bobby Clarke, compared to Sather, he looks like a genius. First the Lindros trade. Now improving his club by signing a young, top 2 line potential kid with SIZE to boot.
For all of the age that the Flyers have and the amount of prospects they have traded, Clarke is quietly restocking the organization while Sather takes chances with the #46 pick.

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06-11-2004, 12:41 PM
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I'm not sure how valid this report is. I have yet to see a credible article explaining the umberger situation.

Two teams have had problems with the player and the agent. I can't understand how posters that complain about how older players are taking shifts off want sather to sign a kid that the coaching staff and sather were not impressed with. missing a year of hockey at such a young age will hurt umberger for the rest of his career. Despite the il conceived notions of some posters the rangers don't have top end talent. jessiman dawes balej jonasen walsh roche are not going to make it as checking players they are going to make it on the top two lines. some people seem to forget that but oh well.

not to mention 6 out of the next 60 picks in the upcoming draft. i would love for the rangers to sign umberger but he seems like a headcase. this team in its very important rebuilding stage does not need a kid that thinks he is better than he really is. i look at the situation with umberger as a baseball team looked at the past draft and passed on top talent because of the agent. it kills me to see the same posters cry and whine about how much money sather has wasted on veterans with no heart cry about sather not paying for a young player that has missed a year of hockey and two teams have both said he is not worth the money and perhaps not worth the headache. can burke and sather both be wrong? time will tell.


Last edited by Son of Steinbrenner: 06-11-2004 at 12:45 PM.
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06-11-2004, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Apparently, Burke saw enough in him to take him 16 overall. Who knows why he did not sign them.
He didn't sign him because Umberger left school to turn pro. Knowing RJ couldn't go back to school, Burke put him over a barrell. Play for "X" amount or don't play at all.

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06-11-2004, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
Despite the il conceived notions of some posters the rangers don't have top end talent. jessiman dawes balej jonasen walsh roche are not going to make it as checking players they are going to make it on the top two lines. some people seem to forget that but oh well.
Balej is a top-end talent. No doubt about it. Jessiman is a talent as well, but is a MAJOR PROJECT, who can equally end up being Putty Toms, Glen Murray, or a less meaner version of Guerrin/Bertuzzi.
As for the rest? Dawes has major size issues. It is one thing to light up juniors and another to score in the NHL. While yes, he will not be a checker, his ability to play on the top 2 lines at the NHL level is not definite and is in question. I certainly hope that he makes it, but as I have been saying, there is a reason that there is only one St. Louis and one Gointa in the league. Jonasen is not a top line talent. At best, the kid can hope to be a Holmstrom-type player. I do not count Roche as a top-end talent either. To be honest, I don't know enough about Mike Walsh, but he does not appear to generate any buzz and is pretty far removed from being a blip on most scouts horizonzs.
So, in summary, the Rangers have 2 prospects who have top-end potential (not counting Lundmark), Balej & Jessiman. And of the 2, one appears to be a major project.

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06-11-2004, 12:55 PM
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If Sather blows this and doesnt sign this kid, he is going to pay bigtime.

FIRE SATHER!!!!!!!

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06-11-2004, 05:32 PM
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06-11-2004, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue
Balej is a top-end talent. No doubt about it. Jessiman is a talent as well, but is a MAJOR PROJECT, who can equally end up being Putty Toms, Glen Murray, or a less meaner version of Guerrin/Bertuzzi.
As for the rest? Dawes has major size issues. It is one thing to light up juniors and another to score in the NHL. While yes, he will not be a checker, his ability to play on the top 2 lines at the NHL level is not definite and is in question. I certainly hope that he makes it, but as I have been saying, there is a reason that there is only one St. Louis and one Gointa in the league. Jonasen is not a top line talent. At best, the kid can hope to be a Holmstrom-type player. I do not count Roche as a top-end talent either. To be honest, I don't know enough about Mike Walsh, but he does not appear to generate any buzz and is pretty far removed from being a blip on most scouts horizonzs.
So, in summary, the Rangers have 2 prospects who have top-end potential (not counting Lundmark), Balej & Jessiman. And of the 2, one appears to be a major project.
Prucha, Immonen? Plus whoever we draft this year.

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06-11-2004, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthepower
Signing Umberger would be one of the dumbest moves in team history. After years of giving greedy, worthless dogs money we finally clean house and now people here want to sign this loser to a big rookie contract when his attitude stinks and he probably can't play for jack
Have you seen him play. If not I wouldn't label him " he cant play for jack".

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06-11-2004, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by fightthepower
I don't have to watch him play one minute. It's common sense. A kid demands a ton of money from two teams never having played a game. Neither team gives it to him. One being the Rangers who stink and are totally rebuilding.

So figure it out. It's not hard.

1. Neither team thinks he is that good
2. He has no confidence in his ability to be a good pro otherwise he would play in the minors, earn a NHL job, produce at the NHL and make his money
3. He hasn't played hockey in a long, long, time so obviously he isn't very committed as an athlete and he has no class

What is it you don't understand?
Glen is that you?

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