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Skating problem (speed + stamina)

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Old
11-05-2010, 04:42 PM
  #1
berzark
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Skating problem (speed + stamina)

Hey guys, I've been playing\skating for 4 years now and I've realised that I need some help with my skating..

I'm a really fast runner. I have great acceleration in any sport and I do really well on the vertical jump and horrizontal leap. Every thing that would seem to make me a fast skater. Problem is I can never pass a defender by speed even if they're out of shape slow defenders.

I think the problem might be my skating style because I have great cardio off ice (ran 16km in 1 hour) but on ice I tend to lose my breath pretty quick.

My question is.. do you think that the fact that I'm a choppy skater really causes all of this? In my mind if I can accelerate fast by doing 3-5 choppy strides, I should keep chopping away to go fast LOL. I'm explosive and it's hard to slow my legs down by doing long strides instead of doing a really quick choppy strides.


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11-05-2010, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by berzark View Post
Hey guys, I've been playing\skating for 4 years now and I've realised that I need some help with my skating..

I'm a really fast runner. I have great acceleration in any sport and I do really well on the vertical jump and horrizontal leap. Every thing that would seem to make me a fast skater. Problem is I can never pass a defender by speed even if they're out of shape slow defenders.

I think the problem might be my skating style because I have great cardio off ice (ran 16km in 1 hour) but on ice I tend to lose my breath pretty quick.

My question is.. do you think that the fact that I'm a choppy skater really causes all of this? In my mind if I can accelerate fast by doing 3-5 choppy strides, I should keep chopping away to go fast LOL. I'm explosive and it's hard to slow my legs down by doing long strides instead of doing a really quick choppy strides.

Sounds like you have explosiveness issues but good medium skating endurance. There are a few things you can do. 1)Work off ice with plyometrics. This is the very best thing for improving your acceleration. 2)Work on your sprinting starts from a still position 3)Work on edge control. Go out to a few public skates and challenge yourself by doing agility maneuvers you think you can't do. Get into dancing on the ice and even try out figure skating moves, as long as you're willing to fall and look a little fruity, this will help a lot.

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11-05-2010, 05:01 PM
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berzark
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Sounds like you have explosiveness issues but good medium skating endurance. There are a few things you can do. 1)Work off ice with plyometrics. This is the very best thing for improving your acceleration. 2)Work on your sprinting starts from a still position 3)Work on edge control. Go out to a few public skates and challenge yourself by doing agility maneuvers you think you can't do. Get into dancing on the ice and even try out figure skating moves, as long as you're willing to fall and look a little fruity, this will help a lot.


I'm good at sprinting starts. Beggining acceleration isn't the problem, it's going pass that speed with long strides I think but I'm not sure.. I skate almost the same way I accelerate. It's good speed but not enough. The question is do you think it really better to start off with 3-5 choppy strides and then do long SLOW but powerful strides, or should I do small quick less powerful strides?

Sorry if this is confusing, thanks for your imput though ! I've seen you try to help a lot on forum and I appreciate it !

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11-05-2010, 05:02 PM
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Seems to me it's more about your technique than anything physical. If you live in an area where there's a lot of hockey, I'd suggest you take a few power skating lessons with a coach who could correct some problems with it.

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11-05-2010, 05:02 PM
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are you dragging your skates with your stride? something is slowing you down and pretty sure its skating technique. you can run as fast as you can on ice, but improper strides is a lot of wasted energy that doesn't translate in to speed.

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11-05-2010, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hsing View Post
Seems to me it's more about your technique than anything physical. If you live in an area where there's a lot of hockey, I'd suggest you take a few power skating lessons with a coach who could correct some problems with it.
That's a good idea but in general, anything that helps his edge control should help this area. The Robbie Glantz videos are pretty good for anything skating related but if he has the money to waste, a private power skating coach is not a bad idea.

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11-05-2010, 06:27 PM
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berzark
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I'll try to take a video of me skating next week if I can.
I play hockey 10 hours a week. 5 hours of open hockey, 2 hours college pickup and 3-5 hours of junior hockey.

This winter I'll def practice a lot outside too !

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11-05-2010, 06:27 PM
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1. Choppy Stride

Is your initial acceleration good? If so, don't change a thing (said the guy on the internet, but you know what I mean) If not stay choppy but drive hard into the ice.

2. Lengthen your stride as you get to speed. Exaggerate it in practice until it becomes second nature.

3. In both of the above use your arms (contradicting 1 already, LOL) This will enable more force on each stride.

4. Do all of the above keeping your head and shoulders at a constant level. You probably do this while running but while skating you must stay lower. Thighs will burn as you do this, very much unlike running, but you will adapt.

Good Luck, and tell us how it goes.

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11-05-2010, 06:30 PM
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berzark
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Originally Posted by doobie604 View Post
are you dragging your skates with your stride? something is slowing you down and pretty sure its skating technique. you can run as fast as you can on ice, but improper strides is a lot of wasted energy that doesn't translate in to speed.

I'm not dragging my skates and I bend my knees and every thing.

I see a lot of quick skaters that do a lot of quick small strides but I see everyone saying you should do long powerful strides..

Like ovechkin jumps a lot on the ice, I rarely see him doing long strides

EDIT: CROSBYFAN -> thanks bud, yeah I tend really go low while skating and my upperbody foward. But with the puck I don't think swinging my arms would be a good idea, no? lol

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11-05-2010, 06:31 PM
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adaminnj
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Russian Box will help with explosiveness. Also what do you get your skates sharpened at? you may wany to go with a shallower curve and change your blade profile.

maybe your shifts are to long too?



Last edited by adaminnj: 11-05-2010 at 07:04 PM.
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11-05-2010, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by adaminnj View Post
Russian Box will help with explosiveness. Also what do you get your skates sharpened at? you may wany to go with a shallower curve and change your blade profile.

maybe your shifts are to long too?
I go to hockey shop and ask them to sharpen my skates.. I don't think I can ask anything eles. Is there a site with explanation of the skate blade curves or profiles?

And no, my shifts are at some times 30 seconds because I'm exhausted quickly I'm a fast skater without the puck, with the puck I can't pass a defender even if I concentrate on skating. Frustrating knowing that the defenders are some time slow skaters and really out of shape.

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11-05-2010, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berzark View Post
I go to hockey shop and ask them to sharpen my skates.. I don't think I can ask anything eles. Is there a site with explanation of the skate blade curves or profiles?

And no, my shifts are at some times 30 seconds because I'm exhausted quickly I'm a fast skater without the puck, with the puck I can't pass a defender even if I concentrate on skating. Frustrating knowing that the defenders are some time slow skaters and really out of shape.
here is some reading the hollow.

http://www.owatonna.k12.mn.us/classr...Sharpening.htm

and here is some reading about profiling.

http://www.weatherimagery.com/blog/h...kate-countour/

you may just need to learn what to do when you are skating with the puck.

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11-05-2010, 07:30 PM
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Choppy strides are good for accelerating from a stop or slow speed, but once you get going you'll go faster with longer strides. Shorter strides are good when under pressure, when you really need to be maneuverable and changing directions a lot, but if trying to simply beat a dman out wide with speed you want that long, powerful stride. Not sure if you're doing this already, but for long, speed strides you should really snap/flick your toe at the end of each stride, gives a nice little power boost, and try to skate as much as possible in a smooth, low friction manner. In power skating classes they'll often have you try to get across the rink in as few strides as possible, it's a good drill to help you get the most power and glide out of each stride. If the puck is slowing you down do your skating drills/suicides with a puck to get used to going fast with it, if you're just pushing it slightly ahead of you when going at full speed it should barely slow you down at all. If you're fast and explosive off the ice I'd say it's not a physical issue, your technique probably just is not the greatest, which is to be expected if you've only been skating for 4 years without any skating instruction. If possible power skating classes are great (not fun, but effective), if not look for power skating videos online.

And yeah, experiment with a shallower hollow, you could try a 3/4" or 7/8" hollow as a starting point, it'll reduce friction and increase glide, though you'll get a bit less bite.


Last edited by ponder: 11-05-2010 at 07:40 PM.
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11-05-2010, 07:43 PM
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berzark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Choppy strides are good for accelerating from a stop or slow speed, but once you get going you'll go faster with longer strides. Shorter strides are good when under pressure, when you really need to be maneuverable and changing directions a lot, but if trying to simply beat a dman out wide with speed you want that long, powerful stride. Not sure if you're doing this already, but for long, speed strides you should really snap/flick your toe at the end of each stride, gives a nice little power boost, and try to skate as much as possible in a smooth, low friction manner. In power skating classes they'll often have you try to get across the rink in as few strides as possible, it's a good drill to help you get the most power and glide out of each stride. If the puck is slowing you down do your skating drills/suicides with a puck to get used to going fast with it, if you're just pushing it slightly ahead of you when going at full speed it should barely slow you down at all. If you're fast and explosive off the ice I'd say it's not a physical issue, your technique probably just is not the greatest, which is to be expected if you've only been skating for 4 years without any skating instruction. If possible power skating classes are great (not fun, but effective), if not look for power skating videos online.
I've never been taught anything in skating so I might not be doing the toe flick at the end.. I'll try to concentrate on doing that next time. I def. need to practice skating with a puck a lot. I see players skating while stick handling and going really fast while I just push the puck foward because stick handling would slow me down too much.

This is def. the best response so far ponder, thank you. Like I said, I'll try to get my girlfriend to take a video of me skating next week with, without the puck and doing a slapshot so I can post in the slapshot thread ;P Thank you for the 2 links too adam, I'm reading up on them.

Thanks for the input guys, if you got more things to add feel free, I love the feedback and advice !

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11-05-2010, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by berzark View Post
I've never been taught anything in skating so I might not be doing the toe flick at the end.. I'll try to concentrate on doing that next time. I def. need to practice skating with a puck a lot. I see players skating while stick handling and going really fast while I just push the puck foward because stick handling would slow me down too much.

This is def. the best response so far ponder, thank you. Like I said, I'll try to get my girlfriend to take a video of me skating next week with, without the puck and doing a slapshot so I can post in the slapshot thread ;P Thank you for the 2 links too adam, I'm reading up on them.

Thanks for the input guys, if you got more things to add feel free, I love the feedback and advice !
Not to say you shouldn't practice top speed while stickhandling, but:

If you're not in traffic, one hand on the stick, pushing the puck, is correct. (and yes, you should have some arm swing at this time, albeit somewhat reduced/controlled)

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11-05-2010, 08:57 PM
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To simplify it a bit, from a still position your first 5 strides (total, not each foot) should be using steel from the middle of the foot to the toe. Once you get really going, use the full blade, heel to toe.

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11-05-2010, 09:21 PM
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berzark
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
To simplify it a bit, from a still position your first 5 strides (total, not each foot) should be using steel from the middle of the foot to the toe. Once you get really going, use the full blade, heel to toe.

So my heel shouldnt be touching the ice when I do my first choppy strides? I usually just put my skates in a V position and jump and push hard. I use my whole blade for the beggining acceleration.

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11-06-2010, 12:15 AM
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so I read up A LOT on sharpening, hallow, etc..

I`m thinking of getting a foward rocker on my bauer one 70 skates and maybe try out the FBV sharpening at 90-75

Do you think the 90-75 is a good idea if i`m 150 lbs or is it not enough grip?

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11-06-2010, 10:10 AM
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Just work on taking long deep strides. You should be almost sitting down when you're skating. Legs to full extension, explode out and push out the ankle for an additional boost. Short strides for acceleration, long once you get going. Your speed lies all in leg strength. You don't skate like you're running.

Also, being able to run long distances is completely different than skating. If you want to work on your endurance off the ice, then you have to work on sprinting since that's what you tend to do when you play hockey.

Here's a video for the toe starts.


and another on the forward stride


Last edited by WhipNash27: 11-06-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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11-06-2010, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Also, being able to run long distances is completely different than skating. If you want to work on your endurance off the ice, then you have to work on sprinting since that's what you tend to do when you play hockey.

I know that already and I can sprint a lot without being windded.. I'm thinking its my technique or maybe when I concentrate I forget to breathe as much :S lool !

Thanks for the videos and tips

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11-06-2010, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Just work on taking long deep strides. You should be almost sitting down when you're skating. Legs to full extension, explode out and push out the ankle for an additional boost. Short strides for acceleration, long once you get going. Your speed lies all in leg strength. You don't skate like you're running.

Also, being able to run long distances is completely different than skating. If you want to work on your endurance off the ice, then you have to work on sprinting since that's what you tend to do when you play hockey.

Here's a video for the toe starts.


and another on the forward stride
Excellent videos, so many good points. At around 3:40 mark of the second video they describe the toe flick that I was talking about before, it will add a noticeable speed boost the very first time you try it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by berzark View Post
I've never been taught anything in skating so I might not be doing the toe flick at the end.. I'll try to concentrate on doing that next time. I def. need to practice skating with a puck a lot. I see players skating while stick handling and going really fast while I just push the puck foward because stick handling would slow me down too much.

This is def. the best response so far ponder, thank you. Like I said, I'll try to get my girlfriend to take a video of me skating next week with, without the puck and doing a slapshot so I can post in the slapshot thread ;P Thank you for the 2 links too adam, I'm reading up on them.

Thanks for the input guys, if you got more things to add feel free, I love the feedback and advice !
Glad to help a little bit, definitely start practicing the toe flick, as well as pretty much everything else in these videos!

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11-06-2010, 11:49 PM
  #22
berzark
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I just got the FBV (flat bottom v) sharpening at 100\50. I used to have normal sharpening at 1\2. I hope I see a difference and get a bit more speed with all the tips and the sharpening. Got a game tomorow to try it out with my junior team I'll give feedback after the game.

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11-07-2010, 08:44 AM
  #23
Bobby 77
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berzark - the main difference between your running/vertical jump success and your skating fatigue is because of the short choppy stride. If you look a someone with a good vertical jump they have full left extension so that are getting all of the power from their legs. When you take short choppy strides you end up working 3x as hard because your not getting the full leg extension. Think about the result when you have no follow though when swinging a base ball bat or golf club. If you stop the swinging motion just as you make contact you end up expelling the same about of energy with a lesser result. Also when you take short choppy strides your blade is making contact at a lesser angle so you are not transferring all your leg power through your stride again causing your to use more energy for little result.

To improve your stride you can try a powerskater, slide board, or any version of lateral stride hops (with an agility latter or plyometric box). All of these will help you build muscle memory in your legs to help improve your stride.

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11-07-2010, 08:46 AM
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Bobby has the right idea. To solve your problem, you need to work on short, explosive yet controlled movements. Edge control is another way to reduce your fatigue and increase endurance. Get to work on both.

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