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Alpo Suhonen

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Old
11-05-2010, 09:25 PM
  #1
SchruteFarms
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Alpo Suhonen

The topic of worst head coach in Chicago sports history was being discussed on the Score today and Alpo was getting the majority of the votes with Vinny Del Negro the runner up. How bad was this guy and why was he so bad?

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11-05-2010, 09:28 PM
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I actually liked Del Negro. That Boston series was epic. Both of those two don't hold a candle to some of the recent Bears coaches we've had. Wannstedt, Jauron were both god awful.

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11-05-2010, 09:34 PM
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Alpo was doomed when Don Cherry referenced dog food the first time he mentioned him as the new Hawk head coach.

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11-05-2010, 11:31 PM
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Suhonen is nowhere near the worst coach in Chicago history. Hell, he probably couldn't crack the bottom 5, or even 10 (lots of competition for that list). I won't comment on coaches I never saw firsthand, but from the mid-80's on Wannstedt was the worst and it's not even close. If Alpo was dog food, then Wanny was dog sh**.

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11-05-2010, 11:41 PM
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For the Bulls I thought Bill Cartwright was pretty bad.

I hated Jim Riggleman and Don Baylor for the Cubs

Dick Jauron was hard to like for the Bears. Dave

Dirk Graham(good player) for the Hawks. Couldn't stand him as a coach.

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11-05-2010, 11:55 PM
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^
This guy is worst ,,,,,,, No one comes close

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11-06-2010, 01:09 AM
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Wasn't he the first Finnish coach in the NHL? Maybe I'm mixing my history up.

Throw my vote in for Dusty Baker via his overuse of Prior and Woody circa 2003.

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11-06-2010, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willfenix View Post
Wasn't he the first Finnish coach in the NHL? Maybe I'm mixing my history up.

Throw my vote in for Dusty Baker via his overuse of Prior and Woody circa 2003.
Wood had arm issues before Baker managed Cubs and refused to change his mechanics.

Wood has no one to blame but himself.

As for Prior his Inverted W arm action is why he messed up his arm. Again another pitcher who refused to change his mechanics

Baker did not screw them up ,,,, There own stubborness screwed them up

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11-06-2010, 01:28 AM
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thanks Dr. blackhawkswincup.

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11-06-2010, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Wood had arm issues before Baker managed Cubs and refused to change his mechanics.

Wood has no one to blame but himself.

As for Prior his Inverted W arm action is why he messed up his arm. Again another pitcher who refused to change his mechanics

Baker did not screw them up ,,,, There own stubborness screwed them up
I admit that my Baker stuff is slightly sour grapes and I don't fully blame him, but I still think Prior's mechanics issues are debatable. And how many 110+ pitch counts did Prior have that year? Both of those guys were not dealt with properly by the organization. I just think that solely blaming mechanics for Prior is short sighted, IMO. There were other significant factors.

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11-06-2010, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willfenix View Post
I admit that my Baker stuff is slightly sour grapes and I don't fully blame him, but I still think Prior's mechanics issues are debatable. And how many 110+ pitch counts did Prior have that year? Both of those guys were not dealt with properly by the organization. I just think that solely blaming mechanics for Prior is short sighted, IMO. There were other significant factors.
There's some expert pitching mechanics guy (forgot his name, but I think his 1st and last started with M) who was predicting arm/elbow/shoulder for Prior in like 2002. His mechanics were visually good to the average viewer, but to pitching experts they were horrendous. Also didn't help that he landed on his shoulder in that collision w/ Marcus Giles while running the bases.


But I am of the belief he took hgh/juice. His calves were massive.

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Old
11-06-2010, 02:58 AM
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Zelepukin/Daze/Probert | Zhamnov | Amonte
McAmmond | Nylander | Sullivan
Zelepukin/Daze/Probert | Herperger | Calder
Leroux | Dubinsky | VandenBussche
* ex: Atcheynum, Marha, Von Arx

Eriksson/Spacek | Mironov
Dean | Quintal
McAlpine | Karpovtsev
* ex: Allison, McCarthy, Poapst

Thibault | Passmore/Tallas

--

Top two lines weren't bad (although they didn't have their best seasons) w/ three 30-goal scorers, but there was not enough depth and definitely not a good enough defense. Zhamnov and Mironov missed almost 20 games each, Karpovtsev missed 30 games, McAmmond was traded at the deadline, Zelepukin played half a season, rookie Calder played half a season, and Eriksson (who they got for Chelios) was traded for Spacek.

They started off poorly, had a passable middle, then bombed at the end of the season (2-11-5 in last 18 games). If they had a better team, I think Suhonen would have lasted. But w/ that defense and only five scorers, few coaches could have gotten them to the playoffs.

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11-06-2010, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayzinSmith View Post
Zelepukin/Daze/Probert | Zhamnov | Amonte
McAmmond | Nylander | Sullivan
Zelepukin/Daze/Probert | Herperger | Calder
Leroux | Dubinsky | VandenBussche
* ex: Atcheynum, Marha, Von Arx

Eriksson/Spacek | Mironov
Dean | Quintal
McAlpine | Karpovtsev
* ex: Allison, McCarthy, Poapst

Thibault | Passmore/Tallas
--

Top two lines weren't bad (although they didn't have their best seasons) w/ three 30-goal scorers, but there was not enough depth and definitely not a good enough defense. Zhamnov and Mironov missed almost 20 games each, Karpovtsev missed 30 games, McAmmond was traded at the deadline, Zelepukin played half a season, rookie Calder played half a season, and Eriksson (who they got for Chelios) was traded for Spacek.

They started off poorly, had a passable middle, then bombed at the end of the season (2-11-5 in last 18 games). If they had a better team, I think Suhonen would have lasted. But w/ that defense and only five scorers, few coaches could have gotten them to the playoffs.
I was a fan of Zelepukin in NJ/Phi and I thought that was a great signing when it went down

Then I saw him play for Hawks =

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11-06-2010, 01:30 PM
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Worst CHicago Caoch

Abe Gibbron for the Chicago Bears

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11-06-2010, 01:47 PM
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Wasn't there something about him losing the respect of the team? Not that many of the players on that team were worthy of much respect themselves, but I remember a comment from Amonte about a clubhouse atmosphere. Lack of accountability too, although I'm not sure if that came from a specific player. Too much coddling.

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11-06-2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gootie42 View Post
There's some expert pitching mechanics guy (forgot his name, but I think his 1st and last started with M) who was predicting arm/elbow/shoulder for Prior in like 2002. His mechanics were visually good to the average viewer, but to pitching experts they were horrendous. Also didn't help that he landed on his shoulder in that collision w/ Marcus Giles while running the bases.


But I am of the belief he took hgh/juice. His calves were massive.
I can't think of a the expert you're referring to but there was a book written by Will Carroll, the injury guru at Baseball Prospectus, about how Prior's mechanics could signal the end of elbow problems for pitchers if they were emulated. The book was titled Saving the Pitcher. I remember thinking at the time that it wasn't very objective for Carroll to use Tom House who was Prior's personal pitching coach for a good deal of the book's expert source material. The inverted W motion BWC referenced, or "M" action, was a blunder of epic proportions. The W throwing motion had been proven effective by pitchers like Ryan, Clemens and Seaver.

Wanny is worst CHI coach I can remember. By itself, "flying around the ball" does not make a sound defensive scheme.

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11-06-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedag View Post
I can't think of a the expert you're referring to but there was a book written by Will Carroll, the injury guru at Baseball Prospectus, about how Prior's mechanics could signal the end of elbow problems for pitchers if they were emulated. The book was titled Saving the Pitcher. I remember thinking at the time that it wasn't very objective for Carroll to use Tom House who was Prior's personal pitching coach for a good deal of the book's expert source material. The inverted W motion BWC referenced, or "M" action, was a blunder of epic proportions. The W throwing motion had been proven effective by pitchers like Ryan, Clemens and Seaver.

Wanny is worst CHI coach I can remember. By itself, "flying around the ball" does not make a sound defensive scheme.
Yes the Inverted W (or M) has been a continued plague on pitching arms

I have not understood why the Inverted became so popular


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 11-06-2010 at 02:36 PM.
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11-06-2010, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Yes the Inverted W (or M) has been a continued plague on pitching arms

I have not understood why the Inverted became so popular
Strasburg's flameout was Prior's career on fast forward but Wainwright is an aggravating example of it working.

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11-06-2010, 02:51 PM
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Strasburg's flameout was Prior's career on fast forward but Wainwright is an aggravating example of it working.
I pitched (Poorly) in a standard W motion

Anyone who has ever thrown a ball can feel the difference in stress when you throw in Inver W

I dont understand these coaches who actively teach kids to pitch that way. If they ever pitched a day in there life they would know longterm it is a disaster

Wainwright is still young. Smoltz had some good years before his injuries started accumulating

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11-06-2010, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I pitched (Poorly) in a standard W motion

Anyone who has ever thrown a ball can feel the difference in stress when you throw in Inver W

I dont understand these coaches who actively teach kids to pitch that way. If they ever pitched a day in there life they would know longterm it is a disaster

Wainwright is still young. Smoltz had some good years before his injuries started accumulating
Did you throw a slider? Some think the pitch is best delivered with the M. I didn't pitch so I really can't comment but I can see Carlos Marmol having trouble in the near future. His M is as pronounced as Lincecum's W.

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11-06-2010, 03:20 PM
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Did you throw a slider? Some think the pitch is best delivered with the M. I didn't pitch so I really can't comment but I can see Carlos Marmol having trouble in the near future. His M is as pronounced as Lincecum's W.
I had a slider but it sucked

I mainly threw 2/4 seam fastball and a changeup

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11-06-2010, 03:33 PM
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I had a slider but it sucked

I mainly threw 2/4 seam fastball and a changeup
Worked for Maddux. Sounds like your slider supports the M theory.

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11-08-2010, 05:12 PM
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Practice was optional under Coach Suhonen. Nuff said.

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11-08-2010, 11:22 PM
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No mention of Terry Bevington? He was such a goof.

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11-09-2010, 01:25 AM
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No mention of Terry Bevington? He was such a goof.
He was an idiot no doubt (I remember when he came out to mind twice in inning and didn't realize that meant you had to pull pitcher and we had to get a guy from bullpen who didn't warm up)

But Bevington didn't have any major issues in clubhouse I can remember and nearly won a wildcard as Sox manager so he wasn't a complete failure

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