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Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VIII

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Old
12-01-2010, 04:00 AM
  #776
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
4 Wingers in the first round over the next three years is almost unheard of???

Really?

Chicago 2005,2006,2007,2008 all 1st round picks were Forwards

New Jersey 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008. 2009 all forwards, 2006 was a D, and 2007 they didn't have a 1st

Philadelphia, 2003 x 2, 20052,2006, 2007, all forwards, 2004 no 1st

Pittsburgh, 2004, 2005,2006, 2007 all forwards

Vancouver, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 all forwards

No, it's not uncommon.

You say he has a problem negotiating contracts, how so? Provide examples, because as I said, signing Quick and Richardson to absolutely steal deals, and Kopitar long term, didn't seem like a problem to me...
Not to mention Brown is on the Cheap as well, Johnny B is also on the cheap.

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12-01-2010, 04:02 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by OK Computer View Post
lmfao, what is the common theme between those teams?

hint: they have all been really, really good recently.
I wasn't about to go through all 29 teams to prove him wrong.

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12-01-2010, 04:07 AM
  #778
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Quote:
Chicago 2005,2006,2007,2008 all 1st round picks were Forwards
Toews is a center

Quote:
New Jersey 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008. 2009 all forwards, 2006 was a D, and 2007 they didn't have a 1st
Zajac is a C. Parise played C in college but has transitioned to a winger.

Quote:
Philadelphia, 2003 x 2, 20052,2006, 2007, all forwards, 2004 no 1st
Richards and Carter are both centers (although Carter plays some wing)

Quote:
Pittsburgh, 2004, 2005,2006, 2007 all forwards
Malkin, Crosby and Staal are all centers

Quote:
Vancouver, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 all forwards
Hodgson and White are both centers. Schroeder played center in college but will probably be a winger at the NHL level.



Quote:
No, it's not uncommon.
I said wingers, not forwards. San Jose drafted 4 first round wingers in 3 years after DL left. How can you say he didn't leave their cupboard bare as far as wingers go?

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12-01-2010, 04:08 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by OK Computer View Post
lmfao, what is the common theme between those teams?

hint: they have all been really, really good recently.
Well that's cause he kinda screwed up...and inadvertently made a case against wingers....(as weird as that sounds) most of those players drafted were centers...just a rough glance Carter/Richards/Giroux were the Philly picks and Crosby/Malkin/Staal were the Pitts picks....or as to say all centers and not wingers....

edit-Herby beat me to it.

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12-01-2010, 04:12 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Toews is a center



Zajac is a C. Parise played C in college but has transitioned to a winger.



Richards and Carter are both centers (although Carter plays some wing)



Malkin, Crosby and Staal are all centers



Hodgson and White are both centers. Schroeder played center in college but will probably be a winger at the NHL level.





I said wingers, not forwards. San Jose drafted 4 first round wingers in 3 years after DL left. How can you say he didn't leave their cupboard bare as far as wingers go?
And San Jose's Defense has sucked ever since(Pretty much why they are struggling right now). I don't know if you can Blame that one On Dean I guess you will find a way. I would be shocked if San Jose ever Wins a Cup with how horrible their backend is.

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12-01-2010, 04:15 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
And San Jose's Defense has sucked ever since... I don't know if you can Blame that one On Dean I guess you will find a way.
And the team was a lot closer to contending recently than they ever were under Lombardi.

Lombardi's greatest contribution to the Sharks was drafting the players they used to get Joe Thornton.

Would Dean have pulled the trigger on that trade if he were running the Sharks?

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12-01-2010, 04:17 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
Well that's cause he kinda screwed up...and inadvertently made a case against wingers....(as weird as that sounds) most of those players drafted were centers...just a rough glance Carter/Richards/Giroux were the Philly picks and Crosby/Malkin/Staal were the Pitts picks....or as to say all centers and not wingers....

edit-Herby beat me to it.
He was trying to make me look like an idiot and he actually proved my point that the best teams in the NHL draft a balance of centers/dmen/wingers and goaltenders.

Someone has to put the puck in the net...that is still the point of the game.

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12-01-2010, 04:18 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
And the team was a lot closer to contending recently than they ever were under Lombardi.

Lombardi's greatest contribution to the Sharks was drafting the players they used to get Joe Thornton.

Would Dean have pulled the trigger on that trade if he were running the Sharks?
Nope Cause Joe turns in to a ghost when his team needs him most. San Jose had a Fantastic Offensive that got Crushed against the Wall that Was Chicago's Tough And sound Defensive play.

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12-01-2010, 04:22 AM
  #784
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Toews is a center



Zajac is a C. Parise played C in college but has transitioned to a winger.



Richards and Carter are both centers (although Carter plays some wing)



Malkin, Crosby and Staal are all centers



Hodgson and White are both centers. Schroeder played center in college but will probably be a winger at the NHL level.





I said wingers, not forwards. San Jose drafted 4 first round wingers in 3 years after DL left. How can you say he didn't leave their cupboard bare as far as wingers go?
Centers and wingers, when they are drafted, are pretty much interchangeable, you can see it, you said it,

Schroeder played center in college but will probably be a winger at the NHL level.
Parise played C in college but has transitioned to a winger.

ETC,

Again, simply put, C and W are pretty much interchangeable when they are drafted, if you want to just argue wings, I don't know what to tell you, the Kings have Williams, Smyth, Brown, Simmonds, pretty solid set of wings, can they be better, sure, I am not too high on Smyth, and wasn't on Williams but he is playing so much better, Brown and Simmonds are solid wingers,

Amazing fact, after Teubert was taken at 13, TWO, TWO wingers were taken in the 1st round, Tedenby, and Tikhovnov, who would you have selected instead of Teubert?

2009, they took Schenn, problem with the pick? Ok, 4 wingers were taken in the 1st round, Magnus Paarjvi - Svennson, Zack Kassian, Jordan Caron, Carter Ashton,

Who do you take instead of Schenn?

2010, when LA picked, at 15, there were 3 winger taken afterwards, who would you have taken instead?

2007, yea, a bit out of order, but still, Hickey at #4, after that 6 wingers taken, Jakub Voracek, Lars Eller, Alexei Cherepanov, Logan MacMillan, Colton Gillies, Max Paciorretty,

Voracek is the best of them with 88 points in 161 games, not exactly burning up the NHL, but again, who would you have taken?

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12-01-2010, 04:22 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
He was trying to make me look like an idiot and he actually proved my point that the best teams in the NHL draft a balance of centers/dmen/wingers and goaltenders.

Someone has to put the puck in the net...that is still the point of the game.
I don't really wanna comment on who does/doesn't look like a idiot in this 2 day post fest where nothing has or will be settled.

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12-01-2010, 04:25 AM
  #786
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BTW Herby,

You maintain that DL has trouble negotiating contracts, again I ask, please give me examples.

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12-01-2010, 04:25 AM
  #787
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Nope Cause Joe turns in to a ghost when his team needs him most. San Jose had a Fantastic Offensive that got Crushed against the Wall that Was Chicago's Tough And sound Defensive play.
Thornton for Stuart and Sturm was one of the worst trades in recent memory.

And the man who made it is currently employed by the Kings.

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12-01-2010, 04:27 AM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Thornton for Stuart and Sturm was one of the worst trades in recent memory.

And the man who made it is currently employed by the Kings.
LMAO wait a minute,

Are you arguing that SJ LOST the Thornton trade?

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12-01-2010, 04:28 AM
  #789
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Thornton for Stuart and Sturm was one of the worst trades in recent memory.

And the man who made it is currently employed by the Kings.
Lombardi Made that Trade? I thought he was gone from San Jose by then. Wow bad trade. I wouldn't say San Jose lost that trade. But Jumbo Joe is not going to lead them to a Stanley Cup. That is just my Personal Feeling. They really need to fix that Backend.

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12-01-2010, 04:30 AM
  #790
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
BTW Herby,

You maintain that DL has trouble negotiating contracts, again I ask, please give me examples.

Evgeni Nabokov
Patrick Marleau
Brad Stuart
Michael Cammalleri
Marian Gaborik
Patrick O'Sullivan

I nwill not criticize him for the actual Kovalchuk negotiations, it was a mess, the only thing I will say is the Kings shouldn't have had Ilya as the end be all of last summer.

Doughty and JJ have both been eligible to be signed long term since July 1st...we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
LMAO wait a minute,

Are you arguing that SJ LOST the Thornton trade?
Ofcourse not...it was one of the worst trades ever for Boston.

And Mike O'Connell works for the Kings.

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12-01-2010, 04:33 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Evgeni Nabokov
Patrick Marleau
Brad Stuart
Michael Cammalleri
Marian Gaborik
Patrick O'Sullivan

I nwill not criticize him for the actual Kovalchuk negotiations, it was a mess, the only thing I will say is the Kings shouldn't have had Ilya as the end be all of last summer.

Doughty and JJ have both been eligible to be signed long term since July 1st...we'll see.
Don't know about the Nabokov, Marleau, Stuart dealings, might have to be a bit more informative there.

Cammalleri indicated he wanted to leave, so he traded him to get something for him, where exactly was the problem?

Marion Gaborik wanted 5 years, DL only felt comfortable giving 4, that's not trouble negotiating, that's knowing what you want and what you are willing to give, are you seriously going to say that was a troubled negotation?????

Patrick O'Sullivan, wait....DL didn't want to sign a guy who was traded 4 times in one day, and waived by the worst team in the league? Yea, that was definitely a failed negotation...

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12-01-2010, 04:33 AM
  #792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Evgeni Nabokov
Patrick Marleau
Brad Stuart
Michael Cammalleri
Marian Gaborik
Patrick O'Sullivan

I nwill not criticize him for the actual Kovalchuk negotiations, it was a mess, the only thing I will say is the Kings shouldn't have had Ilya as the end be all of last summer.

Doughty and JJ have both been eligible to be signed long term since July 1st...we'll see.
Don't know about the Shark One's.
But Cammy is pretty muddled to many people saying they know what happened when they don't.
Gabo is easy Didn't want to give him the years he wanted. Gabo has already missed time this year. I have to admit I would have caved on that one.

You are seriously going to put Patrick I can't keep a job on that list?

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12-01-2010, 04:35 AM
  #793
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Ofcourse not...it was one of the worst trades ever for Boston.

And Mike O'Connell works for the Kings.
You mean this Mike O'Connell,

Many important players on the Bruins roster were drafted during O'Connell's tenure as G.M., including Patrice Bergeron, Mark Stuart, P. J. Axelsson, and David Krejci. O'Connell is currently Director of Pro Player development with the Los Angeles Kings.

Or this one,

n 2003–2004 season, under his direction, the Bruins finished 1st in the Northeast Division, 2nd in the Eastern Conference, and 4th overall in the NHL with 104 points.

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12-01-2010, 04:38 AM
  #794
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You mean this Mike O'Connell,

Many important players on the Bruins roster were drafted during O'Connell's tenure as G.M., including Patrice Bergeron, Mark Stuart, P. J. Axelsson, and David Krejci. O'Connell is currently Director of Pro Player development with the Los Angeles Kings.

Or this one,

n 20032004 season, under his direction, the Bruins finished 1st in the Northeast Division, 2nd in the Eastern Conference, and 4th overall in the NHL with 104 points.
Venture over to the B's board and ask them their opinion of Mike O'Connell.

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12-01-2010, 04:39 AM
  #795
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Venture over to the B's board and ask them their opinion of Mike O'Connell.
Yes because fans are notorious for their unbiased opinions.

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12-01-2010, 04:40 AM
  #796
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Yes because fans are notorious for their unbiased opinions.
lol That's the thread right there bro I am going to bed. Some people are just not ever happy. You know when one of our wingers in the A or Juniors Develops and produces.
And the Kings go on to win the cup under (Dean and Terry). Will we ever see Herby again?

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12-01-2010, 04:40 AM
  #797
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Centers and wingers, when they are drafted, are pretty much interchangeable, you can see it, you said it,

Schroeder played center in college but will probably be a winger at the NHL level.
Parise played C in college but has transitioned to a winger.

ETC,

Again, simply put, C and W are pretty much interchangeable when they are drafted, if you want to just argue wings, I don't know what to tell you, the Kings have Williams, Smyth, Brown, Simmonds, pretty solid set of wings, can they be better, sure, I am not too high on Smyth, and wasn't on Williams but he is playing so much better, Brown and Simmonds are solid wingers,

Amazing fact, after Teubert was taken at 13, TWO, TWO wingers were taken in the 1st round, Tedenby, and Tikhovnov, who would you have selected instead of Teubert?

2009, they took Schenn, problem with the pick? Ok, 4 wingers were taken in the 1st round, Magnus Paarjvi - Svennson, Zack Kassian, Jordan Caron, Carter Ashton,

Who do you take instead of Schenn?

2010, when LA picked, at 15, there were 3 winger taken afterwards, who would you have taken instead?

2007, yea, a bit out of order, but still, Hickey at #4, after that 6 wingers taken, Jakub Voracek, Lars Eller, Alexei Cherepanov, Logan MacMillan, Colton Gillies, Max Paciorretty,

Voracek is the best of them with 88 points in 161 games, not exactly burning up the NHL, but again, who would you have taken?
Herby,

Did this get skipped,

I really want to know who out of the 15 wingers taken in the past 4 drafts at or after the Kings drafted you would have taken instead.

Think about that, 15 wingers out of approximiately what, 100?

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12-01-2010, 04:42 AM
  #798
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What the hell are you guys talking about with O'Sullivan?

I was talking about him not being signed until like two days before the season started, coming off his 55 point season. O'Sullivan was at the time the Kings first line LW.

As for the Sharks.

Nabokov missed I believe the first 10 games of a season with a holdout.

I believe the other two only missed parts of the pre-season. I am not 100% sure.

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12-01-2010, 04:43 AM
  #799
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Since there are clearly no rumors abound, I'm going to look ahead to next year when I think the Kings could take the necessary steps to be taken seriously as Stanley Cup contenders.

Looking ahead to contract statuses and cap implications for 2011, it appears that there will be few teams who may look to shed some contracts, those teams being Philadelphia, Calgary, Pittsburgh and a few others who will have many expiring contracts but will have to fill their rosters.

- The Flames only have one attractive winger on their roster, and that's Iginla. I can't see the Flames moving the face of the franchise unless he asks for a trade of ownership asks for his contract to be moved as he is viewed as a depreciating asset.

- Philly has a number of big contracts that are locked up for many years, and they don't have much cap space opening up next summer. They don't have any significant RFAs coming up either, so they could stay on course or look for more flexibility that could open up by moving Scott Hartnell's contract, which has two additional years remaining at $4.2M.

- Pittsburgh will be in a precarious situation with their cap space and roster. They have over $50M committed to 13 players, leaving the organization a little over $8M to add 8 to 10 players to complete their roster. They have a lot of attractive role players with expiring contracts (Talbot, Asham, Rupp, Dupuis) and their most significant RFA will be Tyler Kennedy. Chris Kunitz could be a very likely candidate to be moved, as he has another year remaining on his $3.725M contract.

Jumping ahead to next summer's crop of free agent forwards, it is very slim pickings. Here are some of the names that will be available:
Semin, Richards, Gagne, Kovalev, Hejduk, Cole, Connolly, Stillman, Ryder, Fleischmann, Prospal, Moulson, Laich, Upshall, Zherdev, J. Jokinen, Tanguay, Larose, Dupuis, J. Ruutu, Fedotenko, Talbot, Fiddler, Eager, Rupp, Leino, Belanger, Asham, etc.

As you can see, the top end crop of free agents is very minimal. There is a tremendous dropoff after the top two names, so you better believe there will be a lot of competition from teams desperate to add some scoring help.

If you don't include the expected salary increases for Doughty, Johnson and Simmonds, the Kings will have $20M of cap space available next summer, with 15 contracted players. If they let their UFAs walk, which includes Handzus, Ponikarovsky and Williams, the Kings will need to add four players to fill out their top nine forward positions if you add their current need of a top line LW. So that leaves open two LWs, a C and a RW.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Kings minimize the ice time of Ryan Smyth and bump him along with Stoll to the third line. Smyth is at that stage in his career that Trevor Linden found himself in, as a veteran leader whose major contribution was in a support role for the younger players. The way Williams has performed, I'd look to retain him for two to three years. Williams is in his prime right now at 29 and he can still very capable of matching his career high totals of 30+ goals and 60+ points. He should be getting ice time on the top line, not Dustin Brown.

Lombardi needs to add a player who has a scoring touch that is not afraid to take the puck to the net, and a player that might be worth the risk who has the ability to do that is Dustin Penner. He has the size and build and had a knack for scoring those clutch goals when he was with the Ducks. He could revive that scoring touch he shared with Getzlaf by playing with another big center in Kopitar. Another player that I've grown very fond of over the years has been Brooks Laich. He plays with a mentality and drive that I wish more Kings players shared and he oozes character and leadership. If somehow the Capitals do not retain him, then I would think that he is the exact type of player that floats Lombardi's boat.

Finally, I'd look to fill the need for a 1B center to alleviate pressure from Kopitar's line. That would be the top priority, and the player in mind would be someone who has the ability to make those around him better and wants to win (and has a proven track record). The player I would hope the Kings go after would be Brad Richards. Give him an offer of three years, $18M. The Kings would secure an elite playmaker, a center who can win draws and is also capable of quarterbacking a PP. It will also buy time for Schenn to develop properly in Manchester, and when Stoll's contract expires in 2012, he can work his way up the ranks. By the time Richards' three-year contract expires, Schenn (or Loktionov) should be ready to step in and assume that position.

In a nutshell, this is a roster that I believe is capable of turning the Kings into serious Cup contenders:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Laich-Richards-Brown
Smyth-Stoll-Simmonds
Clifford-Richardson-Lewis/Westgarth

Mitchell-Doughty
Johnson-Scuderi
Martinez-Greene
Muzzin

Quick-Bernier

That's a deep roster, and if you look at previous teams that played in the Cup Finals, they were loaded with depth, size, talent and grit. That's the right mix and combination that is necessary for a long playoff run. Most of the pieces are there, but with three more additions, it could have a significant impact to the makeup of this team.

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12-01-2010, 04:45 AM
  #800
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What the hell are you guys talking about with O'Sullivan?

I was talking about him not being signed until like two days before the season started, coming off his 55 point season. O'Sullivan was at the time the Kings first line LW.

As for the Sharks.

Nabokov missed I believe the first 10 games of a season with a holdout.

I believe the other two only missed parts of the pre-season. I am not 100% sure.
LOL so you are basing all that on hold-out status? Really? Not to draw any comparisons, but, ever hear of Terrell Owens?

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