HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Official Rumor Thread--Kings Rumor Mill VIII

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-01-2010, 04:48 AM
  #801
damacles1156
Moderator
 
damacles1156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Since there are clearly no rumors abound, I'm going to look ahead to next year when I think the Kings could take the necessary steps to be taken seriously as Stanley Cup contenders.

Looking ahead to contract statuses and cap implications for 2011, it appears that there will be few teams who may look to shed some contracts, those teams being Philadelphia, Calgary, Pittsburgh and a few others who will have many expiring contracts but will have to fill their rosters.

- The Flames only have one attractive winger on their roster, and that's Iginla. I can't see the Flames moving the face of the franchise unless he asks for a trade of ownership asks for his contract to be moved as he is viewed as a depreciating asset.

- Philly has a number of big contracts that are locked up for many years, and they don't have much cap space opening up next summer. They don't have any significant RFAs coming up either, so they could stay on course or look for more flexibility that could open up by moving Scott Hartnell's contract, which has two additional years remaining at $4.2M.

- Pittsburgh will be in a precarious situation with their cap space and roster. They have over $50M committed to 13 players, leaving the organization a little over $8M to add 8 to 10 players to complete their roster. They have a lot of attractive role players with expiring contracts (Talbot, Asham, Rupp, Dupuis) and their most significant RFA will be Tyler Kennedy. Chris Kunitz could be a very likely candidate to be moved, as he has another year remaining on his $3.725M contract.

Jumping ahead to next summer's crop of free agent forwards, it is very slim pickings. Here are some of the names that will be available:
Semin, Richards, Gagne, Kovalev, Hejduk, Cole, Connolly, Stillman, Ryder, Fleischmann, Prospal, Moulson, Laich, Upshall, Zherdev, J. Jokinen, Tanguay, Larose, Dupuis, J. Ruutu, Fedotenko, Talbot, Fiddler, Eager, Rupp, Leino, Belanger, Asham, etc.

As you can see, the top end crop of free agents is very minimal. There is a tremendous dropoff after the top two names, so you better believe there will be a lot of competition from teams desperate to add some scoring help.

If you don't include the expected salary increases for Doughty, Johnson and Simmonds, the Kings will have $20M of cap space available next summer, with 15 contracted players. If they let their UFAs walk, which includes Handzus, Ponikarovsky and Williams, the Kings will need to add four players to fill out their top nine forward positions if you add their current need of a top line LW. So that leaves open two LWs, a C and a RW.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Kings minimize the ice time of Ryan Smyth and bump him along with Stoll to the third line. Smyth is at that stage in his career that Trevor Linden found himself in, as a veteran leader whose major contribution was in a support role for the younger players. The way Williams has performed, I'd look to retain him for two to three years. Williams is in his prime right now at 29 and he can still very capable of matching his career high totals of 30+ goals and 60+ points. He should be getting ice time on the top line, not Dustin Brown.

Lombardi needs to add a player who has a scoring touch that is not afraid to take the puck to the net, and a player that might be worth the risk who has the ability to do that is Dustin Penner. He has the size and build and had a knack for scoring those clutch goals when he was with the Ducks. He could revive that scoring touch he shared with Getzlaf by playing with another big center in Kopitar. Another player that I've grown very fond of over the years has been Brooks Laich. He plays with a mentality and drive that I wish more Kings players shared and he oozes character and leadership. If somehow the Capitals do not retain him, then I would think that he is the exact type of player that floats Lombardi's boat.

Finally, I'd look to fill the need for a 1B center to alleviate pressure from Kopitar's line. That would be the top priority, and the player in mind would be someone who has the ability to make those around him better and wants to win (and has a proven track record). The player I would hope the Kings go after would be Brad Richards. Give him an offer of three years, $18M. The Kings would secure an elite playmaker, a center who can win draws and is also capable of quarterbacking a PP. It will also buy time for Schenn to develop properly in Manchester, and when Stoll's contract expires in 2012, he can work his way up the ranks. By the time Richards' three-year contract expires, Schenn (or Loktionov) should be ready to step in and assume that position.

In a nutshell, this is a roster that I believe is capable of turning the Kings into serious Cup contenders:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Laich-Richards-Brown
Smyth-Stoll-Simmonds
Clifford-Richardson-Lewis/Westgarth

Mitchell-Doughty
Johnson-Scuderi
Martinez-Greene
Muzzin

Quick-Bernier

That's a deep roster, and if you look at previous teams that played in the Cup Finals, they were loaded with depth, size, talent and grit. That's the right mix and combination that is necessary for a long playoff run. Most of the pieces are there, but with three more additions, it could have a significant impact to the makeup of this team.
Freakin Outstanding Post Ziggy, Best post in this entire Cluster of a thread.

NOW THATS A PLAN. Not simple bit$%^ and Moaning.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 04:48 AM
  #802
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Since there are clearly no rumors abound, I'm going to look ahead to next year when I think the Kings could take the necessary steps to be taken seriously as Stanley Cup contenders.

Looking ahead to contract statuses and cap implications for 2011, it appears that there will be few teams who may look to shed some contracts, those teams being Philadelphia, Calgary, Pittsburgh and a few others who will have many expiring contracts but will have to fill their rosters.

- The Flames only have one attractive winger on their roster, and that's Iginla. I can't see the Flames moving the face of the franchise unless he asks for a trade of ownership asks for his contract to be moved as he is viewed as a depreciating asset.

- Philly has a number of big contracts that are locked up for many years, and they don't have much cap space opening up next summer. They don't have any significant RFAs coming up either, so they could stay on course or look for more flexibility that could open up by moving Scott Hartnell's contract, which has two additional years remaining at $4.2M.

- Pittsburgh will be in a precarious situation with their cap space and roster. They have over $50M committed to 13 players, leaving the organization a little over $8M to add 8 to 10 players to complete their roster. They have a lot of attractive role players with expiring contracts (Talbot, Asham, Rupp, Dupuis) and their most significant RFA will be Tyler Kennedy. Chris Kunitz could be a very likely candidate to be moved, as he has another year remaining on his $3.725M contract.

Jumping ahead to next summer's crop of free agent forwards, it is very slim pickings. Here are some of the names that will be available:
Semin, Richards, Gagne, Kovalev, Hejduk, Cole, Connolly, Stillman, Ryder, Fleischmann, Prospal, Moulson, Laich, Upshall, Zherdev, J. Jokinen, Tanguay, Larose, Dupuis, J. Ruutu, Fedotenko, Talbot, Fiddler, Eager, Rupp, Leino, Belanger, Asham, etc.

As you can see, the top end crop of free agents is very minimal. There is a tremendous dropoff after the top two names, so you better believe there will be a lot of competition from teams desperate to add some scoring help.

If you don't include the expected salary increases for Doughty, Johnson and Simmonds, the Kings will have $20M of cap space available next summer, with 15 contracted players. If they let their UFAs walk, which includes Handzus, Ponikarovsky and Williams, the Kings will need to add four players to fill out their top nine forward positions if you add their current need of a top line LW. So that leaves open two LWs, a C and a RW.

Ideally, I'd like to see the Kings minimize the ice time of Ryan Smyth and bump him along with Stoll to the third line. Smyth is at that stage in his career that Trevor Linden found himself in, as a veteran leader whose major contribution was in a support role for the younger players. The way Williams has performed, I'd look to retain him for two to three years. Williams is in his prime right now at 29 and he can still very capable of matching his career high totals of 30+ goals and 60+ points. He should be getting ice time on the top line, not Dustin Brown.

Lombardi needs to add a player who has a scoring touch that is not afraid to take the puck to the net, and a player that might be worth the risk who has the ability to do that is Dustin Penner. He has the size and build and had a knack for scoring those clutch goals when he was with the Ducks. He could revive that scoring touch he shared with Getzlaf by playing with another big center in Kopitar. Another player that I've grown very fond of over the years has been Brooks Laich. He plays with a mentality and drive that I wish more Kings players shared and he oozes character and leadership. If somehow the Capitals do not retain him, then I would think that he is the exact type of player that floats Lombardi's boat.

Finally, I'd look to fill the need for a 1B center to alleviate pressure from Kopitar's line. That would be the top priority, and the player in mind would be someone who has the ability to make those around him better and wants to win (and has a proven track record). The player I would hope the Kings go after would be Brad Richards. Give him an offer of three years, $18M. The Kings would secure an elite playmaker, a center who can win draws and is also capable of quarterbacking a PP. It will also buy time for Schenn to develop properly in Manchester, and when Stoll's contract expires in 2012, he can work his way up the ranks. By the time Richards' three-year contract expires, Schenn (or Loktionov) should be ready to step in and assume that position.

In a nutshell, this is a roster that I believe is capable of turning the Kings into serious Cup contenders:

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Laich-Richards-Brown
Smyth-Stoll-Simmonds
Clifford-Richardson-Lewis/Westgarth

Mitchell-Doughty
Johnson-Scuderi
Martinez-Greene
Muzzin

Quick-Bernier

That's a deep roster, and if you look at previous teams that played in the Cup Finals, they were loaded with depth, size, talent and grit. That's the right mix and combination that is necessary for a long playoff run. Most of the pieces are there, but with three more additions, it could have a significant impact to the makeup of this team.
Like the idea of getting Penner, but at what cost?

Also, does Richard sign a deal that gives him less money than he is making now?

sjmay* is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 04:56 AM
  #803
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 35,500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Like the idea of getting Penner, but at what cost?

Also, does Richard sign a deal that gives him less money than he is making now?
In terms of roster players, I would make only Richardson or Parse available, but clearly they wouldn't be the centerpiece of any trade. It would have to center around a need that the Oilers have to address, and looking at their roster and pipeline, they are abundant with skilled forwards and are in need of some bite and tough dmen.

The player that makes the most sense for the Oilers would be Teubert. Being a former teammate of Eberle's in Regina, I think that is a good fit for them. To seal the deal, a high draft pick is probably something the Oilers would covet, so in order to get the deal done, I wouldn't hesitate moving that pick, especially if it is in the later rounds. Just make sure the scouts do their homework to uncover hidden gems in the later rounds (which they have a knack for doing).

As for Brad Richards, I think he probably was earning significantly more than what he truly was worth for a few years on his $7.8M contract. I can't see him getting another contract that matches those numbers and do think he will earn less seeing how he is older now than he was when he signed that deal.

Ziggy Stardust is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 04:58 AM
  #804
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Centers and wingers, when they are drafted, are pretty much interchangeable, you can see it, you said it,

Schroeder played center in college but will probably be a winger at the NHL level.
Parise played C in college but has transitioned to a winger.

ETC,

Again, simply put, C and W are pretty much interchangeable when they are drafted, if you want to just argue wings, I don't know what to tell you, the Kings have Williams, Smyth, Brown, Simmonds, pretty solid set of wings, can they be better, sure, I am not too high on Smyth, and wasn't on Williams but he is playing so much better, Brown and Simmonds are solid wingers,??
Brown is not first line material unless the left wing is Parse or a similar caliber player.
Simmonds is a shell of his former self and has contributed very little this season. Remind me when he last hit someone or got into a scrape that ignited the team. He's more concerned with what happens after tye game than during it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Amazing fact, after Teubert was taken at 13, TWO, TWO wingers were taken in the 1st round, Tedenby, and Tikhovnov, who would you have selected instead of Teubert??
Please dont make me go through this again: the correct answer is TYLER MYERS

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
2009, they took Schenn, problem with the pick? Ok, 4 wingers were taken in the 1st round, Magnus Paarjvi - Svennson, Zack Kassian, Jordan Caron, Carter Ashton,

Who do you take instead of Schenn?

2010, when LA picked, at 15, there were 3 winger taken afterwards, who would you have taken instead?

2007, yea, a bit out of order, but still, Hickey at #4, after that 6 wingers taken, Jakub Voracek, Lars Eller, Alexei Cherepanov, Logan MacMillan, Colton Gillies, Max Paciorretty,

Voracek is the best of them with 88 points in 161 games, not exactly burning up the NHL, but again, who would you have taken?
Voracek is a good start. Certainly alot more productivity than Hickey has to date, 88 points more in fact.

Brandon Sutter
200910 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 72GP 21Goals 19 assists 40 points.

Sam Gagner
200708 Edmonton Oilers NHL 79GP 13g 36a 49pts
200809 Edmonton Oilers NHL 76GP 16g 25a 41pts
200910 Edmonton Oilers NHL 68GP 15g 26a 41pts

David Perron
200708 St. Louis Blues NHL 62GP 13g 14a 27pts
200809 St. Louis Blues NHL 81GP 15g 35a 50pts
200910 St. Louis Blues NHL 82GP 20g 27a 47pts

At least these guys are contributing. Tell me what has Hickey done at the NHL level?

Heck Alec Martinez, drafted in the fourth round is ahead of Hickey in development.

Problem is, DL created the hole by trading or not re-signing various goal scorers. Those boats, I am reminded, have sailed. But if you think we couldnt have signed or re-signed certain players, it is only because DL chose NOT to sign them or instead to trade them away. The hole that remains to be filled up front is entirely of DL creation and he has NOT addressed it, and pretty much now claims doesnt really exist.

Isn't revisionost history wonderful!

DIEHARD the King fan is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 04:59 AM
  #805
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 16,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Herby,

Did this get skipped,

I really want to know who out of the 15 wingers taken in the past 4 drafts at or after the Kings drafted you would have taken instead.

Think about that, 15 wingers out of approximiately what, 100?
I was getting to it. Take it easy.

2006 would have taken Bernier as is. We needed a goaltender. As for the second pick, would not have taken Trevor Lewis, thats for sure. I knew a lot about Lewis since he was a Michigan recruit at the time. His upside was extremely limited, older kid playing Junior A, not much offensive skill to speak of. Chris Stewart or Claude Giroux, who were the next two forwards taken sure would look good as Kings.

Ok, 2007...who would I have taken. well Voracek was who I wanted. I didn't know much about Thomas Hickey since he was so off the board. I still don't despise the pick. I have no problem with gambling for a potential home-run. The Kings were unlucky to end up with the 4th pick in what most thought was a 3 heavy draft. In hindsight the whole draft was awful so we didn't miss a ton even if Hickey doesn't develop. Voracek is a 2nd liner.

2008, who would I have taken instead of Teubert? Well the better question would be who wouldn't I have taken. It was a D heavy draft and the Kings just chose the wrong one. Myers, Karlsson, Carlson, Sbisa, Del Zotto, Hamonic. If the Kings had made no moves on 2008 draft day they could have ended up with Doughty and Tikhonov, who I believe was drafted in the slot the Kings would have had with the Stars pick.

2009, I like Schenn he is a good player. Offensive upside may be a bit limited for a Top 5 but no regrets with this pick. MPS is an insane talent as well though. I don't think we would have any regrets if he were on our roster right now.

Herby is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 05:01 AM
  #806
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
In terms of roster players, I would make only Richardson or Parse available, but clearly they wouldn't be the centerpiece of any trade. It would have to center around a need that the Oilers have to address, and looking at their roster and pipeline, they are abundant with skilled forwards and are in need of some bite and tough dmen.

The player that makes the most sense for the Oilers would be Teubert. Being a former teammate of Eberle's in Regina, I think that is a good fit for them. To seal the deal, a high draft pick is probably something the Oilers would covet, so in order to get the deal done, I wouldn't hesitate moving that pick, especially if it is in the later rounds. Just make sure the scouts do their homework to uncover hidden gems in the later rounds (which they have a knack for doing).

As for Brad Richards, I think he probably was earning significantly more than what he truly was worth for a few years on his $7.8M contract. I can't see him getting another contract that matches those numbers and do think he will earn less seeing how he is older now than he was when he signed that deal.
Something like Parse, Teubert, and LA 1st for Penner?

Man, you are looking to get flamed lol, I like the trade, but guys just don't like Penner for some reason.

As far as Richards, I would love 3 years at 18M, but depending on Doughty, Johnson, Simmonds, Bernier, and Williams, you can easily go 3 years at 21, or even slightly higher, the key being the term.

sjmay* is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 05:05 AM
  #807
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Brown is not first line material unless the left wing is Parse or a similar caliber player.
Simmonds is a shell of his former self and has contributed very little this season. Remind me when he last hit someone or got into a scrape that ignited the team. He's more concerned with what happens after tye game than during it.



Please dont make me go through this again: the correct answer is TYLER MYERS



Voracek is a good start. Certainly alot more productivity than Hickey has to date, 88 points more in fact.

Brandon Sutter
200910 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 72GP 21Goals 19 assists 40 points.

Sam Gagner
200708 Edmonton Oilers NHL 79GP 13g 36a 49pts
200809 Edmonton Oilers NHL 76GP 16g 25a 41pts
200910 Edmonton Oilers NHL 68GP 15g 26a 41pts

David Perron
200708 St. Louis Blues NHL 62GP 13g 14a 27pts
200809 St. Louis Blues NHL 81GP 15g 35a 50pts
200910 St. Louis Blues NHL 82GP 20g 27a 47pts

At least these guys are contributing. Tell me what has Hickey done at the NHL level?

Heck Alec Martinez, drafted in the fourth round is ahead of Hickey in development.

Problem is, DL created the hole by trading or not re-signing various goal scorers. Those boats, I am reminded, have sailed. But if you think we couldnt have signed or re-signed certain players, it is only because DL chose NOT to sign them or instead to trade them away. The hole that remains to be filled up front is entirely of DL creation and he has NOT addressed it, and pretty much now claims doesnt really exist.

Isn't revisionost history wonderful!
Herby wanted wingers,

Sutter, Gagner, Perron are all centers,

Myers is a D,

Herby wants wingers.

Brown is top six, these days top six are interchangeable, Simmonds is top six, these days top six are interchangeable.

I didn't see the Anaheim game, but the Chicago game, Simmonds played well and brought much needed energy to Kopitar and Brown's line.

sjmay* is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 05:05 AM
  #808
damacles1156
Moderator
 
damacles1156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Centers and wingers, when they are drafted, are pretty much interchangeable, you can see it, you said it,

Schroeder played center in college but will probably be a winger at the NHL level.
Parise played C in college but has transitioned to a winger.

ETC,

Again, simply put, C and W are pretty much interchangeable when they are drafted, if you want to just argue wings, I don't know what to tell you, the Kings have Williams, Smyth, Brown, Simmonds, pretty solid set of wings, can they be better, sure, I am not too high on Smyth, and wasn't on Williams but he is playing so much better, Brown and Simmonds are solid wingers,

Amazing fact, after Teubert was taken at 13, TWO, TWO wingers were taken in the 1st round, Tedenby, and Tikhovnov, who would you have selected instead of Teubert?

2009, they took Schenn, problem with the pick? Ok, 4 wingers were taken in the 1st round, Magnus Paarjvi - Svennson, Zack Kassian, Jordan Caron, Carter Ashton,

Who do you take instead of Schenn?

2010, when LA picked, at 15, there were 3 winger taken afterwards, who would you have taken instead?

2007, yea, a bit out of order, but still, Hickey at #4, after that 6 wingers taken, Jakub Voracek, Lars Eller, Alexei Cherepanov, Logan MacMillan, Colton Gillies, Max Paciorretty,

Voracek is the best of them with 88 points in 161 games, not exactly burning up the NHL, but again, who would you have taken?
I take a Swing at it. I would have stayed D on the Teubert Pick The Kings really needed A Tough Guy on D. I just wish Teubert would be progressing faster.

2009 Schenn Hands down Future Center behind Kopi. Although I do not like how they are handling him now.

2010. Forbert I can't believe fell that far, He was rated the Ninth best player in the draft. He is going to be a nice Defensmen.

2007. I have to admit Voracek would be nice right about now. But that's Monday morning QB stuff. I would have selected Keaton Ellerby I think he is going to be pretty good.

Hickey gets a bad rap though.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 05:08 AM
  #809
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I was getting to it. Take it easy.

2006 would have taken Bernier as is. We needed a goaltender. As for the second pick, would not have taken Trevor Lewis, thats for sure. I knew a lot about Lewis since he was a Michigan recruit at the time. His upside was extremely limited, older kid playing Junior A, not much offensive skill to speak of. Chris Stewart or Claude Giroux, who were the next two forwards taken sure would look good as Kings.

Ok, 2007...who would I have taken. well Voracek was who I wanted. I didn't know much about Thomas Hickey since he was so off the board. I still don't despise the pick. I have no problem with gambling for a potential home-run. The Kings were unlucky to end up with the 4th pick in what most thought was a 3 heavy draft. In hindsight the whole draft was awful so we didn't miss a ton even if Hickey doesn't develop. Voracek is a 2nd liner.

2008, who would I have taken instead of Teubert? Well the better question would be who wouldn't I have taken. It was a D heavy draft and the Kings just chose the wrong one. Myers, Karlsson, Carlson, Sbisa, Del Zotto, Hamonic. If the Kings had made no moves on 2008 draft day they could have ended up with Doughty and Tikhonov, who I believe was drafted in the slot the Kings would have had with the Stars pick.

2009, I like Schenn he is a good player. Offensive upside may be a bit limited for a Top 5 but no regrets with this pick. MPS is an insane talent as well though. I don't think we would have any regrets if he were on our roster right now.
Wait a minute, you said you wanted wingers, so instead of drafting Teubert, what winger would you have picked,

You clearly said that DL doesn't take wingers in drafts, well, the past 4 drafts, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, what wingers that were available AT THE TIME, would you have taken instead of Teubert, Hickey, Forbort, Schenn, Doughty, etc.

sjmay* is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 05:50 AM
  #810
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 16,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Wait a minute, you said you wanted wingers, so instead of drafting Teubert, what winger would you have picked,

You clearly said that DL doesn't take wingers in drafts, well, the past 4 drafts, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, what wingers that were available AT THE TIME, would you have taken instead of Teubert, Hickey, Forbort, Schenn, Doughty, etc.
Your using 4 drafts...in reality actually 3 because Voracek over Hickey is an obvious in 2007. When the sample size is 15 drafts.

2008 and 2010 where the Kings picked there was not a reasonable winger in those slots. I have admitted that in the past posts. Looking back on 2008 the mistake was not in taking a defenseman, the mistake was taking Mark Visheau Jr. when there were potential impact defenseman to draft. The funny thing is the next winger taken after Teubert was Mattias Tedenby, 12 picks later, who is a hell of a lot better prospect than Teubert.

2010, the Kings liked Forbort and with Teubert looking like a flop I had no problem with the move up to get the guy they really liked. Forbort has looked good for the Fighting Sioux or whatever they are called these days. I don't know why you think I hate all these picks I dont.

Berner, Stewart, Voracek, Doughty, Myers (or any of the d-man), Schenn, Forbort.... what could have been.

Herby is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 06:04 AM
  #811
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Your using 4 drafts...in reality actually 3 because Voracek over Hickey is an obvious in 2007. When the sample size is 15 drafts.

2008 and 2010 where the Kings picked there was not a reasonable winger in those slots. I have admitted that in the past posts. Looking back on 2008 the mistake was not in taking a defenseman, the mistake was taking Mark Visheau Jr. when there were potential impact defenseman to draft. The funny thing is the next winger taken after Teubert was Mattias Tedenby, 12 picks later, who is a hell of a lot better prospect than Teubert.

2010, the Kings liked Forbort and with Teubert looking like a flop I had no problem with the move up to get the guy they really liked. Forbort has looked good for the Fighting Sioux or whatever they are called these days. I don't know why you think I hate all these picks I dont.

Berner, Stewart, Voracek, Doughty, Myers (or any of the d-man), Schenn, Forbort.... what could have been.
The sampe size is 15 drafts? Didn't realize DL was with the Kings for 15 years, I use 4 drafts, as it saves a lot of time, unless you want to go back and compile all of DL's picks, and who was in the system at the time that he picked them.

Again, you say Myers is an impact player, but NO ONE KNEW THAT AT THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED. BUFFALO DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT, everyone on the draft floor went WTF.

Voracek over Hickey was an obvious? My god, wait...I was gonna make a snarky comment, then I forgot you had the crystal ball. Of course it's obvious now...no really. So then you are calling for PHX GM to be fired as well, as he took Turris over Voracek? Don't bother answering, we know the question, when he took Hickey, do you happen to know who was in the pipeline defensively? Well let's see.

Starting in 2002, we drafted Grebeshekov, who was gone by 2007 I believe, in 2003, we drafted NOT ONE DEFENSEMAN, In 2004, we drafted Paul Baeir in the 3rd round, only D taken, in 2005, we drafted TJ Fast in the 2nd round, Patrick Hersely in the 5th round, Ryan McGinnis in the 6th round, Josh Meyers in the 7th round, and in 2006, we drafted Joey Ryan in the 2nd round, Niclas Andersen on the 4th round etc,

So yea, going into 2007 our D prospect cupboard, was freaking EMPTY.

Hickey was touted as a top 4 Dman going into the draft, you would have drafted a forward after drafting the following forwards since 2003, Dustin Brown, Lauri Tukonen, Anze Kopitar, Trevor Lewis, etc

Really? So, 2003 to 2006 we draft mainly forwards, 2007, with your D empty, you would go with another forward, then you would just be in here complaing that our D sucks and we shouldn't have been drafting just forwards!

sjmay* is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 06:16 AM
  #812
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 16,704
vCash: 500
2007 was an awful draft for defenseman, the talent pool dictated going forward. Just like the 2008 draft pool dictated going defenseman even though we already had Doughty, JJ and Hickey.

DL and the staff also should have known (and I'm sure they did), that 2008 was loaded with D Prospects and we had two first round picks.

The play should have been the winger.

Herby is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 06:22 AM
  #813
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
2007 was an awful draft for defenseman, the talent pool dictated going forward. Just like the 2008 draft pool dictated going defenseman even though we already had Doughty, JJ and Hickey.

DL and the staff also should have known (and I'm sure they did), that 2008 was loaded with D Prospects and we had two first round picks.

The play should have been the winger.
LOL wow, seriously, wow?

We get 2 defenseman in 2008, just like you said DL should have known,

But when the 2007 draft came around, did ANYONE THINK they were going to get Doughty? No, so you try and pick up Hickey...who was touted as a very good offensive dman,

You seriously have a thing with your crystal ball here...

sjmay* is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 06:26 AM
  #814
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
Brown is not first line material unless the left wing is Parse or a similar caliber player.
Simmonds is a shell of his former self and has contributed very little this season. Remind me when he last hit someone or got into a scrape that ignited the team. He's more concerned with what happens after tye game than during it.



Please dont make me go through this again: the correct answer is TYLER MYERS



Voracek is a good start. Certainly alot more productivity than Hickey has to date, 88 points more in fact.

Brandon Sutter
200910 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 72GP 21Goals 19 assists 40 points.

Sam Gagner
200708 Edmonton Oilers NHL 79GP 13g 36a 49pts
200809 Edmonton Oilers NHL 76GP 16g 25a 41pts
200910 Edmonton Oilers NHL 68GP 15g 26a 41pts

David Perron
200708 St. Louis Blues NHL 62GP 13g 14a 27pts
200809 St. Louis Blues NHL 81GP 15g 35a 50pts
200910 St. Louis Blues NHL 82GP 20g 27a 47pts

At least these guys are contributing. Tell me what has Hickey done at the NHL level?

Heck Alec Martinez, drafted in the fourth round is ahead of Hickey in development.

Problem is, DL created the hole by trading or not re-signing various goal scorers. Those boats, I am reminded, have sailed. But if you think we couldnt have signed or re-signed certain players, it is only because DL chose NOT to sign them or instead to trade them away. The hole that remains to be filled up front is entirely of DL creation and he has NOT addressed it, and pretty much now claims doesnt really exist.

Isn't revisionost history wonderful!
For a lawyer you use terrible facts to make your pts on this board. You brought up 3 players that through 7 seasons haven't had a 51 pt season and yet you pine for a top line winger???? Sutter/Gagner have at best 2nd line center upside (yes center!!! not LW) only Perron imo has top line potential and it has yet to be seen if he will reach it (on top of the concussion issues he is now going through) and he would have been seen as just as much of a reach on these boards if not more than Hickey, humorous that is.

Next you bring up Alec (who is 23 btw) and has finally started to get it this year (or atleast people see it this time) last year when he was up here (22) he was destroyed by almost this whole board (outside of me/tonil). Then in the same sentence you bash Hickey for not producing yet....and he is 21!! Do you see the flaw in your logic here?

So as we've seen in Doughty, Myers, Karlsson, Hedman, Del Zotto, Schenn, Carlson, Bogo, AP...while some may look (real) good at first then tend to hit a rough patch....it takes time for a defensemen to fully mature people say they get this, then ***** all day long.

KingLB is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 06:35 AM
  #815
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Your using 4 drafts...in reality actually 3 because Voracek over Hickey is an obvious in 2007. When the sample size is 15 drafts.

2008 and 2010 where the Kings picked there was not a reasonable winger in those slots. I have admitted that in the past posts. Looking back on 2008 the mistake was not in taking a defenseman, the mistake was taking Mark Visheau Jr. when there were potential impact defenseman to draft. The funny thing is the next winger taken after Teubert was Mattias Tedenby, 12 picks later, who is a hell of a lot better prospect than Teubert.

2010, the Kings liked Forbort and with Teubert looking like a flop I had no problem with the move up to get the guy they really liked. Forbort has looked good for the Fighting Sioux or whatever they are called these days. I don't know why you think I hate all these picks I dont.

Berner, Stewart, Voracek, Doughty, Myers (or any of the d-man), Schenn, Forbort.... what could have been.
I'm gonna combine your two posts just cause I don't know how to double quote...k?

First...I know you hate Teubert but Tedenby isn't that great a prospect, imo he is just Oscar Moller in a shallower prospect pool...think he weighs like 160lbs.

Next comon anyone can go through drafts for any team and put in the best players.....thats just cheap arguement....if a GM hits over 50% with firsts we should be pretty good. (note their are alot of other factors involved in this so don't take at face value)

Finally to your other post....2007 wasn't a horrible draft for defensemen, it was a horrible draft period outside Kane (with JVR still proving)...even the picks directly after Hickey aren't making the impact these teams wished they would have (if Schenn ends up with Gagners numbers I'll be disappointed is basically what I mean). Basically where the Kings failed here was not tanking enough.

Also bashing Dean for what he was gonna draft in 2007 based on 08 is just tuuuuurable....there is no way you let the next year dictate your current draft thats just more baseless assumptions to help launch more unfounded hate. Hell Duchene and Seguin and basically every top pick in 2007 weren't even seen as guaranteed first round picks entering their year...yea you can assume some picks(Larsson/Hedman/JT) but making any basis on the next years draft is way to hard a year out...I'm sure WHB our resident draft expert would confirm this.


Last edited by KingLB: 12-01-2010 at 06:47 AM.
KingLB is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 06:59 AM
  #816
damacles1156
Moderator
 
damacles1156's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 16,020
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
I'm gonna combine your two posts just cause I don't know how to double quote...k?

First...I know you hate Teubert but Tedenby isn't that great a prospect, imo he is just Oscar Moller in a shallower prospect pool...think he weighs like 160lbs.

Next comon anyone can go through drafts for any team and put in the best players.....thats just cheap arguement....if a GM hits over 50% with firsts we should be pretty good. (note their are alot of other factors involved in this so don't take at face value)

Finally to your other post....2007 wasn't a horrible draft for defensemen, it was a horrible draft period outside Kane (with JVR still proving)...even the picks directly after Hickey aren't making the impact these teams wished they would have (if Schenn ends up with Gagners numbers I'll be disappointed is basically what I mean). Basically where the Kings failed here was not tanking enough.

Also bashing Dean for what he was gonna draft in 2007 based on 08 is just tuuuuurable....there is no way you let the next year dictate your current draft thats just more baseless assumptions to help launch more unfounded hate. Hell Duchene and Seguin and basically every top pick in 2007 weren't even seen as guaranteed first round picks entering their year...yea you can assume some picks(Larsson/Hedman/JT) but making any basis on the next years draft is way to hard a year out...I'm sure WHB our resident draft expert would confirm this.
Larsson could have a Career ending Injury the next game he plays. No one knows what the future holds.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 09:26 AM
  #817
scramble91
Registered User
 
scramble91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,110
vCash: 500
Nice post ziggy. I want Richards too, but want no part of penner.

Also, to smjay- usually you have great posts, but to call Simmonds top 6 material right now is not realistic. Will he develop into one? I dont think he will. Like Clifford, Simmonds will be a great 3rd line winger for his career.

scramble91 is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 09:33 AM
  #818
kingpest19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,088
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Something like Parse, Teubert, and LA 1st for Penner?

Man, you are looking to get flamed lol, I like the trade, but guys just don't like Penner for some reason.

As far as Richards, I would love 3 years at 18M, but depending on Doughty, Johnson, Simmonds, Bernier, and Williams, you can easily go 3 years at 21, or even slightly higher, the key being the term.
Maybe its his inconsistency that turns people off. Is the guy talented? Yes he is but when you dont show up every night what good is it. The Kings have already been down that path with a certain LW that is now gone and people want to go down it again? Frolov was benched once in his career IIRC while Penner has been called out and benched by different coaches. Do you think it would be any different under Murray?

And why is everyone willing to throw a first rounder in to get Penner?

kingpest19 is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 09:57 AM
  #819
DIEHARD the King fan
Registered User
 
DIEHARD the King fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: blueline to slot
Country: United States
Posts: 6,244
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLB View Post
For a lawyer you use terrible facts to make your pts on this board. You brought up 3 players that through 7 seasons haven't had a 51 pt season and yet you pine for a top line winger???? Sutter/Gagner have at best 2nd line center upside (yes center!!! not LW) only Perron imo has top line potential and it has yet to be seen if he will reach it (on top of the concussion issues he is now going through) and he would have been seen as just as much of a reach on these boards if not more than Hickey, humorous that is.

Next you bring up Alec (who is 23 btw) and has finally started to get it this year (or atleast people see it this time) last year when he was up here (22) he was destroyed by almost this whole board (outside of me/tonil). Then in the same sentence you bash Hickey for not producing yet....and he is 21!! Do you see the flaw in your logic here?

So as we've seen in Doughty, Myers, Karlsson, Hedman, Del Zotto, Schenn, Carlson, Bogo, AP...while some may look (real) good at first then tend to hit a rough patch....it takes time for a defensemen to fully mature people say they get this, then ***** all day long.
I was going for picks other than as made, not necessarily limiting myself to Herby's Rules.

Now, when you trade away or fail to sign (re-sign) the number of goals DL has over the last several years and don't address it through your system, you have the offensive problems you have right now.

This is year Five. WE are supposed to be legitimate Cup cintenders NOW. DL's words not mine. This team is missing WM badly but even getting both he and Poniboy back wont put goals in the net. The Scott Parse Project hasn't worked, our vaunted first line center is playing like a third line guy, and cant remember where the front of the net it or else he would probably go there, if for no other reason than at times he looks lost.

My picks were of players who could contribute offensively. Players we have too few of right now.

AS for Tuebert and Myers, you are dead wrong. Many scouting reports had Myers in the top 20 and he has always had a higher upside than than Tuebert. Many wanted Myers. DL doesnt want to (or think you can) paint stripes on his players.

Im not advocating firing DL (yet) but if this team slides further and doesnt make the playoffs (yes its a long season -- but the West is very competitive and many teams that weren't suppose to are doing quite well) I wont have to advocate it. AEG will do it on their own.

DIEHARD the King fan is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 10:01 AM
  #820
saintsnsoldiers
The Nolanator
 
saintsnsoldiers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Logan, Utah
Country: United States
Posts: 2,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
Maybe its his inconsistency that turns people off. Is the guy talented? Yes he is but when you dont show up every night what good is it. The Kings have already been down that path with a certain LW that is now gone and people want to go down it again? Frolov was benched once in his career IIRC while Penner has been called out and benched by different coaches. Do you think it would be any different under Murray?

And why is everyone willing to throw a first rounder in to get Penner?
Yes, but this LWinger likes to go to the net and can score 30+. To me its the fact of a big body with eyes for the net and plays the rough areas that makes me like him. I thinks we could get him with out a 1st.

saintsnsoldiers is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 10:49 AM
  #821
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Geographical Oddity
Country: United States
Posts: 9,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Hickey gets a bad rap though.

Especially when compared to Fowler.

Butch 19 is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 10:58 AM
  #822
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 7,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Especially when compared to Fowler.
How does Fowler have anything to do with Hickey?

Chazz Reinhold is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 11:54 AM
  #823
I Am Ziggy Palffy
Registered User
 
I Am Ziggy Palffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 2,127
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post

Again, you say Myers is an impact player, but NO ONE KNEW THAT AT THE TIME HE WAS DRAFTED. BUFFALO DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT, everyone on the draft floor went WTF.
myers was predicted to go anywhere from 4-8

I Am Ziggy Palffy is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 11:58 AM
  #824
Chazz Reinhold
Registered User
 
Chazz Reinhold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Stanley Cup
Country: United States
Posts: 7,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
myers was predicted to go anywhere from 4-8
He was?

http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7..._ranks0640.htm

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?fid=11473

Chazz Reinhold is offline  
Old
12-01-2010, 12:00 PM
  #825
wabwat
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: pasadena, ca.
Posts: 6,784
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to wabwat
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Ziggy Palffy View Post
myers was predicted to go anywhere from 4-8
i thought he was slated to go right around where he went, and that he and Teubert were a 'pick em' around that slot???

wabwat is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:10 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.