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06-13-2004, 09:46 PM
  #1
FlyHigh
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HF Flyers 2004 Draft preview

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0

seemed a bit negative on Drozdetsky, I thought he was up and coming.

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06-13-2004, 09:50 PM
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In the article it says, Ruggeri signed, and Korovkin was not, citing conditioning reasons.

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06-14-2004, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...readed&order=0

seemed a bit negative on Drozdetsky, I thought he was up and coming.
the people who write these articles have never givin Droz much credit. maybe he needs to come over here for them to like him more. dunno. but i have yet to see many good things writen about him even playing in a tough league

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06-14-2004, 12:54 AM
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Antero Niittymaki, likely to move up to the big club as a backup next season,
I like the sound of that, but I just don't know how it is possible with the way Burke's option is structured. Oh well, we've been over this before, just wait and see what happens. Personally I hope Niittymaki is on the big club next season.

It's a pretty crappy time to have a draft without a lot of picks considering how weak the Flyers prospect system looks right now.

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06-14-2004, 07:44 AM
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Does any one think Drozdetsky will ever make the big club. I really hope he does. He would really help our depth on the right side.

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06-14-2004, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersPhantoms33
I like the sound of that, but I just don't know how it is possible with the way Burke's option is structured. Oh well, we've been over this before, just wait and see what happens. Personally I hope Niittymaki is on the big club next season.

It's a pretty crappy time to have a draft without a lot of picks considering how weak the Flyers prospect system looks right now.
First of all, we do have a lot of picks. None in the first two rounds, however.

I wouldn't say our system is weak. Not many teams have two excellent impact forwards up front (Carter and Richards). Some of the other guys up front could make it as well (Drozdetsky, Ruzicka, Eager, etc). Defense needs work, but Clarke did trade away two good prospects so this can be expected. Goaltending is excellent. Overall, we are in very good shape.

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06-14-2004, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by flyerfreak941
Does any one think Drozdetsky will ever make the big club. I really hope he does. He would really help our depth on the right side.
Does anyone think he'll ever come over? If he does, he will most likely make the NHL with the jury out with regard to how good he will be. But he has to make the jump soon or it may be too late.

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06-14-2004, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus
Does anyone think he'll ever come over? If he does, he will most likely make the NHL with the jury out with regard to how good he will be. But he has to make the jump soon or it may be too late.
He has to sign a two way contract and that becomes less likely as he gets older and more settled into the Russian league. Also with the contract situations about to change in Russia (see concern over Malkin/Overcheck) it becomes less likely that he will come over. Too bad as now is the time to make a claim to a wing spot on this team with the many possible openings.

Also, very poor about Korovkin and his lack of conditioning costing him a shot. Reminds me of the entire Brendl thing and concerns about him.

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06-14-2004, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex88
Also, very poor about Korovkin and his lack of conditioning costing him a shot. Reminds me of the entire Brendl thing and concerns about him.
I think Brendl was starting to do okay in Carolina and then the injury bug hit. How did the Flyers system go to 27?

This D isn't the greatest, but we are okay there and the forward group (especially with Umberger and Eager now ) has to be viewed as one of the best in the league. Goaltending is also top tier as Niittymaki has been good in the AHL and had a great 3 games with the big boys, Buckler, Trembly, and Beauchimen or however you spell it are also doing quite well.

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06-14-2004, 12:37 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh

This D isn't the greatest, but we are okay there and the forward group (especially with Umberger and Eager now ) has to be viewed as one of the best in the league.
I think you are overvaluing the talent a bit.


Last edited by Cuiff: 06-14-2004 at 12:47 PM.
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Old
06-14-2004, 12:46 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus
None in the first two rounds, however.
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Without a pick in the first two rounds, the Flyers chancing of getting a very good impact player are greatly diminished. First round picks aren't locks, but they're more of a sure thing then any 3rd round or later pick. Granted, a very good player can be had in the later rounds, but you can't assume that the Flyers will unearth a gem in the 5th or 6th round, either.

The term "weak" was perhaps a bit too strong; maybe mediocre is a better term. The truth is they're top heavy, and they're depth looks very mediocre when compared to a lot of other teams. They weren't ranked 27th because they were loaded.

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06-14-2004, 12:58 PM
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The 27th ranking is garbage. That's the Hockeys Future ranking. The Hockey News in its future watch ranking rated Flyers 8th. That is a more professional assessment as it is partly compiled with professional input. The HockeysFuture evaluations are done by green-eyeshade ink-stained pocket protector bean counters who are trying to show they know more than others. They will give great weight to some hyped skills of some Byelorussian or Slovakian that not even they have seen play. Just merely playing well in the OHL or something does not impress them.

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06-14-2004, 01:03 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I think you are overvaluing the talent a bit.
I would disagree... Carter is a legit top line player and Richards probably is too. The Flyers have plenty of others as well as Droz has done very well in the RSL, 29 pts in 57 games with 16 goals. 29 pts may not seem like a whole lot, but I think GKJ said it translates to around 60 at the NHL level? I don't think you are high on Eager, but he had done okay in the NHL and can probably translate into a physical 3rd line guy. Sharp could also become a pretty good player if you give him some talented linemates. And let's not forget Ruzicka who just happened to be the OHL Rookie of the year. Find me 10 other teams with those type of forwards in the system...

EDIT: I think I forgot Umberger who has also done very well in college and the Flyers scouts are usually good judges of talent.

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06-14-2004, 01:13 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
I would disagree... Carter is a legit top line player and Richards probably is too. The Flyers have plenty of others as well as Droz has done very well in the RSL, 29 pts in 57 games with 16 goals. 29 pts may not seem like a whole lot, but I think GKJ said it translates to around 60 at the NHL level? I don't think you are high on Eager, but he had done okay in the NHL and can probably translate into a physical 3rd line guy. Sharp could also become a pretty good player if you give him some talented linemates. And let's not forget Ruzicka who just happened to be the OHL Rookie of the year. Find me 10 other teams with those type of forwards in the system...

EDIT: I think I forgot Umberger who has also done very well in college and the Flyers scouts are usually good judges of talent.

Well I agree that Carter and Richards are real top end talent and that Umberger, Niittymäki, Patrick Sharp & Stefan Ruzicka are nice prospects but there is a real drop off after that. Also, this team lacks a guaranteed top end defensive prospect or depth at goal.

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06-14-2004, 01:21 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Find me 10 other teams with those type of forwards in the system...

EDIT: I think I forgot Umberger who has also done very well in college and the Flyers scouts are usually good judges of talent.
Pittsburgh
Mon
Washington
Edmonton
Phoenix
Atlanta
Bufflo
Columbus
NJ
Ott

I definitely think these 10 teams come before us.

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06-14-2004, 01:27 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Well I agree that Carter and Richards are real top end talent and that Umberger, Niittymäki, Patrick Sharp & Stefan Ruzicka are nice prospects but there is a real drop off after that. Also, this team lacks a guaranteed top end defensive prospect or depth at goal.
Saying no depth at goal isn't laughable, but it's close dude. Tremblay was the goaltender for Gatineau which got to the QMJHL finals (did they win?). Buckler had a great season at Wisconsin at NCAA and don't forget Dov Grumet-Morris or whatever it is, I am too lazy to check. Beauchemin isn't so bad either.

Richards, Carter, Ruzicka, Umberger, Sharp, and Drozdetsky all have top-6 potential. Who knows how many other teams have that? I am not too worried about depth when you add Radio and Gagne to that. And Zeus is only 27. That's 3 lines of solid prospects/forwards, I'll take that any day.

D is weak, admittedly. Ruggeri is good, but probably a no.2 or no.3 D prospect on a good team. Picard isn't so hot either. However, Pitts and Seidenberg are both now playing in the NHL plus Markov and Johnsson both have yet to reach 30.

The Flyers main weaknesses in their prospect system are LW and D. LW, we got Gags and Eager, a 1st line and a 3rd line probably. That means that we probably need a 2nd line LW somewhere down the road. They also need some D depth, that's something that they can address in this draft and the next one. These weaknesses aren't too big compared to what a lot of other teams face.

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06-14-2004, 01:36 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Also, this team lacks a guaranteed top end defensive prospect or depth at goal.

Umm... im with you on defence with ruggeri being their best prospect but i think we have great depth in goal. For example...

1. Antero Niittymäki 7 (rank should go up)
2. Bernd Bruckler 6 (should go up; best season ever for wisconsin last season)
3. David Tremblay 5.5 ( may go up had a very good record this year 33-10-3 )
4. Rejean Beauchemin 5.5( should stay the same; he had an above average record and a pretty good GAA.)
5. Dov Grumet-Morris 5 ( stay the same he had an ok year with a good save%)
6. Ville Hostikka 5 ( im not sure what kind of year he had)
7. Chris Houle 4 ( Houle had an pretty good year but i dont see him moving up in rankings.)

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06-14-2004, 01:39 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Saying no depth at goal isn't laughable, but it's close dude. Tremblay was the goaltender for Gatineau which got to the QMJHL finals (did they win?). Buckler had a great season at Wisconsin at NCAA and don't forget Dov Grumet-Morris or whatever it is, I am too lazy to check. Beauchemin isn't so bad either..
Some reports have Tremblay being the week link on his team.
Buckler had a nice season but does to equate to top goalie prospect? No!

Just look at what other teams in the league have in goalie prospects. The Flyers are below average at best in that dept

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Richards, Carter, Ruzicka, Umberger, Sharp, and Drozdetsky all have top-6 potential. Who knows how many other teams have that? I am not too worried about depth when you add Radio and Gagne to that. And Zeus is only 27. That's 3 lines of solid prospects/forwards, I'll take that any day...
Radio, Gagne and Zeus are not prospects and have nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about prospects.

Again, in my opinion, only Richards and Carter are top 6 potential. The rest are more like top 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
D is weak, admittedly. Ruggeri is good, but probably a no.2 or no.3 D prospect on a good team. Picard isn't so hot either. However, Pitts and Seidenberg are both now playing in the NHL plus Markov and Johnsson both have yet to reach 30. ...
Pitts, Seidenberg, Markov and Johnsson are not prospects and have nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about prospects.

Settle down boy, Ruggeri and Picard are 5th Defenseman at best

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06-14-2004, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Pittsburgh
Mon
Washington
Edmonton
Phoenix
Atlanta
Bufflo
Columbus
NJ
Ott

I definitely think these 10 teams come before us.
I'm assuming this is just forwards...

Pitt- I'll say we're equal with. They have more depth, we have more top-end talent. Remember, we don't need the depth.

Montreal- They are better.

Washington- They are better.

Edmonton- Push. Rita's star is falling very fast and they have a bit more depth, but I like our top-end talent better.

Phoenix- Remember that Sjostrom and Taffe no longer count here. They are deep down the middle, but I like our top 2 center prospects better than theirs and we are better on the wings. I'd take us over them.

Atlanta- I'd take us over them. According the HF, they have 1 7. We have an 8, 7.5, and 2 7's. We are better on RW and C and they might keep a slight edge on LW.

Buffalo- Their top 2 are nice, but Roy no longer counts as a prospect and that gives our C depth a huge boost. Give them edges on both wings. Remember that 5 and 5.5 look okay, but those guys are projected as 4th liners and 4th liners come a dollar a dozen. Push I guess.

Columbus- Zherdev is no longer a prospect. He has 57 NHL games. I like us better anyway. Columbus has a very long list, but most of those guys are 4th liners or minor-league guys, our top enders are plain out better and depth is nice, but you can get AHL guys any time.

NJ- Give the Devs an edge although what is all the hype about Sugbolov if anyone could help here? His stats don't seem to impressive, too bad I haven't seen him play.

Ottawa- Spezza and Vermette both have a full NHL season and are no longer prospects. Ottawa's depth is worse than ours and our top end talent is better. I'd give this one to us.

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06-14-2004, 01:58 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
I'm assuming this is just forwards...

Pitt- I'll say we're equal with. They have more depth, we have more top-end talent. Remember, we don't need the depth..
Your kidding right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Montreal- They are better.

Washington- They are better.

Edmonton- Push. Rita's star is falling very fast and they have a bit more depth, but I like our top-end talent better.

Phoenix- Remember that Sjostrom and Taffe no longer count here. They are deep down the middle, but I like our top 2 center prospects better than theirs and we are better on the wings. I'd take us over them.

Atlanta- I'd take us over them. According the HF, they have 1 7. We have an 8, 7.5, and 2 7's. We are better on RW and C and they might keep a slight edge on LW.

Buffalo- Their top 2 are nice, but Roy no longer counts as a prospect and that gives our C depth a huge boost. Give them edges on both wings. Remember that 5 and 5.5 look okay, but those guys are projected as 4th liners and 4th liners come a dollar a dozen. Push I guess.

Columbus- Zherdev is no longer a prospect. He has 57 NHL games. I like us better anyway. Columbus has a very long list, but most of those guys are 4th liners or minor-league guys, our top enders are plain out better and depth is nice, but you can get AHL guys any time.

NJ- Give the Devs an edge although what is all the hype about Sugbolov if anyone could help here? His stats don't seem to impressive, too bad I haven't seen him play.

Ottawa- Spezza and Vermette both have a full NHL season and are no longer prospects. Ottawa's depth is worse than ours and our top end talent is better. I'd give this one to us.
I find most of your evaluation to be very biased. You are rather quick to down play other teams' talents and equally as quick to hype up the Flyer's guy. Try being objective about this. Granted there were a few prospects I forgot had graduated but man you just dismiss too much.

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06-14-2004, 01:58 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
Some reports have Tremblay being the week link on his team.
Buckler had a nice season but does to equate to top goalie prospect? No!

Just look at what other teams in the league have in goalie prospects. The Flyers are below average at best in that dept


Radio, Gagne and Zeus are not prospects and have nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about prospects.

Again, in my opinion, only Richards and Carter are top 6 potential. The rest are more like top 9.



Pitts, Seidenberg, Markov and Johnsson are not prospects and have nothing to do with this discussion. We are talking about prospects.

Settle down boy, Ruggeri and Picard are 5th Defenseman at best
Tremblay weak link? Face it, in all hockey leagues, when a team gets to a championship, the goalie is not the weak link, you cannot win Championships in hockey without a good goalie. Buckler had a great season, he's a decent prospect. We don't have Lehtonen or Miller, but we have depth. Going around the League, 10 other teams have prospects higher than Niitty's 7 on HF. His stock will also go up after his very good season.

Point taken about Zeus, Gags, and Radio. Richards and Carter only ones with top 6? I'd disagree with that, I think Umberger and Ruzicka go in that group as well.

Our D prospects suck, but I'll live with that as long as we have strong D up top and we have a few years to pick up some good D prospects in drafts.

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06-14-2004, 02:05 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I find most of your evaluation to be very biased. You are rather quick to down play other teams' talents and equally as quick to hype up the Flyer's guy. Try being objective about this. Granted there were a few prospects I forgot had graduated but man you just dismiss too much.
where do I downplay other teams' talents? Rita's star is falling, he has had plenty of time and opportunity to produce and he has not come through. That's what I would call a guy who might be fading. He has failed to make EDM twice out of training camp, he might be the kind of guy that produces in the AHL and not at the NHL. Who knows?

I am just wondering about Sugbolov, maybe he is an amazing talent? I said the Devils were better than us anyway. Where else do I downplay other teams' talent. Most teams have more depth than the Flyers, I think the Flyers have more topline talent. Depth can be important, but right now, I'll take the talent.

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06-14-2004, 02:20 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Tremblay weak link? Face it, in all hockey leagues, when a team gets to a championship, the goalie is not the weak link, you cannot win Championships in hockey without a good goalie. .
I am only telling you what I read. Again, I think you are overvaluing these guys. They' re nice prospects but nothing special.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
Buckler had a great season, he's a decent prospect. We don't have Lehtonen or Miller, but we have depth. Going around the League, 10 other teams have prospects higher than Niitty's 7 on HF. His stock will also go up after his very good season.
10 other teams have better prospects in goal plus what comes in this years draft. Also, how may teams have more depth in goal? 10 or so !


Last edited by Cuiff: 06-14-2004 at 02:32 PM.
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06-14-2004, 02:25 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh
where do I downplay other teams' talents?

You don't give other teams credit. To say the Flyers are on par with either Pitt or Phox is laughable.

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06-14-2004, 02:32 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuiffitelli
I am only telling you what I read. Again, I think you are overvaluing these guys. They' re nice prospects but nothing special.





10 other teams have better prospects in goal plus what comes in this years draft. Also, how may teams have more depth in goal?
nice prospects and nothing special? Can you define the difference? If either Tremblay, Beauchemin, or Buckler turns into a good NHL back-up, that is a success considering we have Niitty and Esche.

How many other teams have more depth? The Flyers have 6 goalie prospects above "5". Only TB has that many, but their highest one is only 6. Niitty, Buckler, Tremblay, and Beauchemin should all have significant jumps after their season as well.

PS: Just some stuff on Nitty, he was 5th in the AHL in wins despite playing 10, 11, and 15 games less than the guys in front of him.

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