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Horcoff - MCL(Knee ligament) injury - Est. 8 Weeks

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Old
11-07-2010, 11:30 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by greatgazoo View Post
Horc is leading this team in scoring. To see him go down is a major concern. Hopefully it's just a bruise and nothing to do with his knee.
He's leading your fantasy team. Hemsky and Whitney are leading the way on the Oil. Horcs is third with nine. It is just a contusion and I agree it would hurt to lose him.

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11-07-2010, 11:38 PM
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11-07-2010, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Burnt Biscuits View Post
I don't think Horc will miss anytime it didn't look that serious, as fun as Omark is to watch, if Horc is going to miss some time O'Marra should be the one getting the call up.
Who would you rather have in the top 9, Fraser or Omark?

Normally I'd agree, but we've got a player in Brule who can slide into the center position.

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11-07-2010, 11:50 PM
  #29
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It's pretty important to reward players who step up their games in the minors.

Omark has done that. He's been a leader on the team and a go to guy for the coaches. He plays top unit PP (taking McDonald's spot with Giroux and Moran).

He's hot and has confidence and has EARNED a shot. You have to send the proper message to your minor leaguers that performance=opportunity.

Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
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11-07-2010, 11:54 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Who would you rather have in the top 9, Fraser or Omark?

Normally I'd agree, but we've got a player in Brule who can slide into the center position.
If Horc is out for a bit, I'd like to see:

Hall - Gagner - Hemsky
MPS - Brule - Eberle
Penner - Cogliano - Omark
whoever/who cares/meh

And Brule should absolutely be moved to centre. If Renney can't see this, I'd like to know what he's been smoking so far while with this club.

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11-08-2010, 12:29 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Who would you rather have in the top 9, Fraser or Omark?

Normally I'd agree, but we've got a player in Brule who can slide into the center position.
Omark for sure, in the top 9. The thing I am more concerned with is the penalty kill though and Omark is not at all a viable option in that regard, also while Brule is doing pretty good on draws I don't think he is responsible enough defensively to take on the assignments the centers get.

Horcoff can be replaced on the powerplay given all the skill guys we have and probably won't have a huge decline in the numbers we put up (although Horcoff gets a lot of grief for being put on the powerplay his powerplay points per minute have traditionally been decent). The harder places to replace Horcoff is in terms of even strength effectiveness and the penalty kill (especially 5 on 3's), our penalty kill is already putrid if Horcoff goes down you need to address the issue. O'Marra isn't going to single handedly fix our pk or anything like that but I would assume he is more effective than Gagner or Cogliano in this regard and our best pk option at center on the farm team.

P.S. Please don't put Cogliano on the powerplay anymore.


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11-08-2010, 12:38 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
It's pretty important to reward players who step up their games in the minors.

Omark has done that. He's been a leader on the team and a go to guy for the coaches. He plays top unit PP (taking McDonald's spot with Giroux and Moran).

He's hot and has confidence and has EARNED a shot. You have to send the proper message to your minor leaguers that performance=opportunity.
While I agree that Omark should be called up (didnt think he should have been sent down in the first place) it is odd that many think he has "earned" his shot based on being a ppg player for fifteen games while Schremp never earned a shot at all despite being a ppg player in the ahl for his first two years in the minors. As a 20yr old and not a 24yr old to boot.

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Old
11-08-2010, 12:49 AM
  #33
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What?

You think Horc is playing poorly, but you want Penner on the top line?

I think hes not doing whats required of him on the line hes on!

Maybe hes not the player for that line.

Penner bangs and crashes in the corners and stands in front of goalie, those are the two most important things the 3rd man needs to do when playing with Hall, Eberle, or Hemsky. And thats exactly what Horcoff hasnt been doing consistantly!

Thats why I want Penner with Hemsky and Hall, his style fits their play.

Im sorry but Shawn Horcoff is a VERY SOFT 6'1" almost 210 lbs player.

I posted in a thread before the game for person there to watch and they would see Shawn pulls up short on puck races to avoid being hit and will not commit himself to standing at top of creese fully screening goalie. Instead he losses the puck battles most times and tries to play from parimeter of slot or next to net. This game didnt get the chance really to prove that right but anyone can look at any game already played to see EXACTLY what Im talking about.

Horcoff could easily be up around 10 goals if he played the position thats required of ANY PLAYER that plays with Hall, Eberle, Hemsky. Instead hes gotten 4 goals. 2 literally bounced in off him FROM THE SLOT. 1 he was at side of net and JUST BARELY managed to get into slot area (where he should have been standing) to get the rebound that bounced out. I forget what 4th goal was (I think it was anouther rebound in the slot though that he was in position for this time) but 3 of his 4 for sure were slot plays and hes missed a number of others that bounced out and no one was there to get them (because he wasnt in slot position that Penner or Fraser or Jones or RYAN SMYTH would have been in position for).

Doesnt have to be Penner, could be Fraser, Jones, Stortini, or even Coglianno. They all play that style and would fit better on the top line.

Horcoff has played his normal game which really is a 3rd line checking style game. Not first line offensive style. His defensive game has not been anywhere close to the level its falsely advertised as this year and his plus minus would be sinking faster then the Titanic if Eberle hadnt covered his (Horcoffs) assignment numberous times already this season.

While I never wish ill of any player, Im very excited to see Hall and Eberle or Hall and Hemsky get a chance to play with a player that fits their make up and style of line.

Sorry but after Horcoff left that line tonight, things really started to pop for them. Gagner missed a gimme (IN THE SLOT), Coglianno got a rebound (IN THE SLOT) that goalie made nice save on, Hall got Cogliannos rebound and his post, ect ect ect.

So while I dont think hes played poorly persay, I dont think hes played anywhere near the level some posters suggest he has. And I dont think hes played remotely close to the level the Edmonton media thinks he has.

I think some time away from Horcoff will do wonders for Hall. I dont understand why Renney is trying to force Horcoff on Hall. If anything, Eberle had more chemistry with Horcoff (but no where near the chemistry Hall and Eberle have togather).

I think Playing with a player like Hall or Eberle or Hemsky is the easiest thing in the world to do for a player:

1) You chase after and retreive dump ins, taking the hit if need be to send puck to linemate to set up zone control;
2) You support them on the boards and corners to retreive pucks;
3) You move to front of creese and Screen goalie once puck retreived;
4) You bust hump back to own end and take care of defensive responsibilities;

After that, you leave it up to the Halls, Eberle's, Hemskys to make you look good. You can only screw things up if you try to do more then your job details (and thats when we get into the constant running into each other (Horc has ran into Hall like 6 or more times when Halls got puck already this season), constant passing behind people, ect. ANYONE that overthinks their role on this top line ends up hurting the line IMO.

I think Horcoff should be moved to 3rd line (Ethan Moreau did fine as captian while on 3rd line) and a player that SUITS the style required to play on top line slides in. Be it Coglianno, Be it Hall shifting to center, be it Fraser. We need someone that will retreive the dump ins, support other players on the boards, set up shop in the slot, and take care of their defensive responcibilities in their own end (while facing the other teams top line usually).

So no, I dont think Horcoff been terrible this year, I just dont think Horcoff is the right fit as the 1st line center and I look forward to someone else getting the oppertunity to show what they got to offer.

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Old
11-08-2010, 01:06 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
While I agree that Omark should be called up (didnt think he should have been sent down in the first place) it is odd that many think he has "earned" his shot based on being a ppg player for fifteen games while Schremp never earned a shot at all despite being a ppg player in the ahl for his first two years in the minors. As a 20yr old and not a 24yr old to boot.
How many times does it have to be pointed out? Like banging my head against a brick wall. The only thing that Omark doesn't have going for him is his size.

Schremp can't skate. Omark is a very fast and shifty player. Schremp can't gain the offensive zone to save his life. Omark gains the offensive zone with ease. Schremp can't play in the corners and wont go to the slot. Omark earns his living in those areas and has exploited the opposition at every level in those areas. Overall, Schremp plays like a scared little boy about to wet his pantalones, and Omark is pretty much fearless when he sees he has a scoring opportunity.

But wait, they both have YouTube shoot-out moves. They must be the same player.

Top that with Schremp being told again and again and again, what he had to do to reach the next level. So what does he do? He publicly states nothing is wrong with his skating and goes further to say Wellwood is doing great and that's who he should model his game after.

Some of us don't have to jump on the Omark train because we've been there all along. If you don't believe me, take a look at my posts in the "Linus Omark: Can his game translate to the NHL?" thread. Still doubtful, take a look at my posts regarding Omark over the last two years.


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Old
11-08-2010, 01:10 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Oilfan66 View Post
Doesnt have to be Penner, could be Fraser, Jones, Stortini, or even Coglianno. They all play that style and would fit better on the top line.
OK then.

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11-08-2010, 01:19 AM
  #36
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How many times does it have to be pointed out? Like banging my head against a brick wall. The only thing that Omark doesn't have going for him is his size.

Schremp can't skate. Omark is a very fast and shifty player. Schremp can't gain the offensive zone to save his life. Omark gains the offensive zone with ease. Schremp can't play in the corners and wont go to the slot. Omark earns his living in those areas and has exploited the opposition at every level in those areas. Overall, Schremp plays like a scared little boy about to wet his pantalones, and Omark is pretty much fearless when he sees he has a scoring opportunity.

But wait, they both have YouTube shoot-out moves. They must be the same player.

Top that with Schremp being told again and again and again, what he had to do to reach the next level. So what does he do? He publicly states nothing is wrong with his skating and goes further to say Wellwood is doing great and that's who he should model his game after.

Some of us don't have to jump on the Omark train because we've been there all along. If you don't believe me, take a look at my posts in the "Linus Omark: Can his game translate to the NHL?" thread. Still doubtful, take a look at my posts regarding Omark over the last two years.
Geez Louise.........Shremp cant skate, gain the offensive zone, cant go into corners, wets his pants and yet still scores a ppg in the ahl as a 20yr old? How can that be? And yet, despite this accomplishment, somehow he didnt deserve a shot (coach said so) and yet a 24yr old rookie with fifteen games under his belt, all of a sudden deserves one. Ok then. Carry on.

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11-08-2010, 01:36 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Geez Louise.........Shremp cant skate, gain the offensive zone, cant go into corners, wets his pants and yet still scores a ppg in the ahl as a 20yr old? How can that be? And yet, despite this accomplishment, somehow he didnt deserve a shot (coach said so) and yet a 24yr old rookie with fifteen games under his belt, all of a sudden deserves one. Ok then. Carry on.

Linus is also in his 6th year of professional hockey while Schremp was in his 1st...

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11-08-2010, 02:42 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Geez Louise.........Shremp cant skate, gain the offensive zone, cant go into corners, wets his pants and yet still scores a ppg in the ahl as a 20yr old? How can that be? And yet, despite this accomplishment, somehow he didnt deserve a shot (coach said so) and yet a 24yr old rookie with fifteen games under his belt, all of a sudden deserves one. Ok then. Carry on.
***pantalones***

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11-08-2010, 03:29 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by the word View Post
How many times does it have to be pointed out? Like banging my head against a brick wall. The only thing that Omark doesn't have going for him is his size.

Schremp can't skate. Omark is a very fast and shifty player. Schremp can't gain the offensive zone to save his life. Omark gains the offensive zone with ease. Schremp can't play in the corners and wont go to the slot. Omark earns his living in those areas and has exploited the opposition at every level in those areas. Overall, Schremp plays like a scared little boy about to wet his pantalones, and Omark is pretty much fearless when he sees he has a scoring opportunity.

But wait, they both have YouTube shoot-out moves. They must be the same player.

Top that with Schremp being told again and again and again, what he had to do to reach the next level. So what does he do? He publicly states nothing is wrong with his skating and goes further to say Wellwood is doing great and that's who he should model his game after.

Some of us don't have to jump on the Omark train because we've been there all along. If you don't believe me, take a look at my posts in the "Linus Omark: Can his game translate to the NHL?" thread. Still doubtful, take a look at my posts regarding Omark over the last two years.
I've never heard you say a single positive word about Schremp yet he's in the NHL as we speak, out of curiosity when was the last time that you saw him play? Have you seen improvements in his game? Or will you simply not respond as usual and just do your little hit and run routine?

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11-08-2010, 03:53 AM
  #40
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Back to the original topic. It looked clear to me after watching the replay of Horcoff pulling up at the blue line. He collided with Jack Skille. It looked to me like skille's knee hit Horcoff in the thigh at the Oil blue line. Very unsuspecting play. I've encountered this type of injury before. Nothing more than a charley horse from what the replay shows. With the amount of medical advancements and healing processes i'd be suprised to see Horcoff miss more than one game. Even, one game would be for precautionary issues and I think recommended with their dense upcoming schedule ahead.

Oilfan; you should seriously consider condensing your posts.

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11-08-2010, 04:45 AM
  #41
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Back to the original topic. It looked clear to me after watching the replay of Horcoff pulling up at the blue line. He collided with Jack Skille. It looked to me like skille's knee hit Horcoff in the thigh at the Oil blue line. Very unsuspecting play. I've encountered this type of injury before. Nothing more than a charley horse from what the replay shows. With the amount of medical advancements and healing processes i'd be suprised to see Horcoff miss more than one game. Even, one game would be for precautionary issues and I think recommended with their dense upcoming schedule ahead.

Oilfan; you should seriously consider condensing your posts.
This. I was talking to a guy yesterday after the game who has access to the players/dressing room and he said its just a minor contusion to his leg, we wont miss much, if any time.

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11-08-2010, 04:56 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Geez Louise.........Shremp cant skate, gain the offensive zone, cant go into corners, wets his pants and yet still scores a ppg in the ahl as a 20yr old? How can that be? And yet, despite this accomplishment, somehow he didnt deserve a shot (coach said so) and yet a 24yr old rookie with fifteen games under his belt, all of a sudden deserves one. Ok then. Carry on.
The Oilers mismanaged Schremp, he should've gotten time with the Oilers during that stretch after Smyth was traded but I believe we couldn't call him up because we were at some kind of limit, which is just poor roster management.

Also just to get the facts, Schremp was far below a PPG in the AHL. He played basically three full years and 2 of the 3 years he was considerably below a PPG (his second year he was close).

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11-08-2010, 06:38 AM
  #43
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If they call someone up, who will it be?

Lots of people are going to want Omark after his 5 goal night, but realistically a centerman will be needed to fill in for horcoff.
Perhaps Brule!

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11-08-2010, 06:55 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Geez Louise.........Shremp cant skate, gain the offensive zone, cant go into corners, wets his pants and yet still scores a ppg in the ahl as a 20yr old? How can that be? And yet, despite this accomplishment, somehow he didnt deserve a shot (coach said so) and yet a 24yr old rookie with fifteen games under his belt, all of a sudden deserves one. Ok then. Carry on.
Omark is 23, and is not a rookie according to the AHL. Try again.

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11-08-2010, 08:27 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Geez Louise.........Shremp cant skate, gain the offensive zone, cant go into corners, wets his pants and yet still scores a ppg in the ahl as a 20yr old? How can that be? And yet, despite this accomplishment, somehow he didnt deserve a shot (coach said so) and yet a 24yr old rookie with fifteen games under his belt, all of a sudden deserves one. Ok then. Carry on.
Are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right?

Also, some people do well in the AHL without being able to translate into the NHL. It looks like Schremp is finally doing okay for himself at the NHL level, but with Omark the jury is obviously still out.

I think the point is that people see more potential for Omark's game to translate than Schremp's. I've seen too little of either player to make a fair judgement, but I'd tend to agree that Omark looks like he "gets it" on a whole other level than Schremp.

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11-08-2010, 08:56 AM
  #46
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Omg schremp sucks can we move on? That was a different era for the Oilers. Omark is more dynamic and deserves the call regardless of Horcoffs status. I would send mps down and call up omark and reddox

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11-08-2010, 09:16 AM
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Why do sports teams hate the word "bruise"
Just using the medical term...

Contusion is a bruise.

Laceration is a cut.

Fracture is a break.

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11-08-2010, 09:20 AM
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And when did 53 points in 69 games start equating to 1 PPG?

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11-08-2010, 09:30 AM
  #49
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Are you suggesting that two wrongs make a right?

Also, some people do well in the AHL without being able to translate into the NHL. It looks like Schremp is finally doing okay for himself at the NHL level, but with Omark the jury is obviously still out.

I think the point is that people see more potential for Omark's game to translate than Schremp's. I've seen too little of either player to make a fair judgement, but I'd tend to agree that Omark looks like he "gets it" on a whole other level than Schremp.
No. I think Omark should have made the team. It wasnt the end of the world that he got sent down but if he doesnt get significant time with the big club this year at some point, especially the way he is playing, I can see him exercising his option and going back to Europe next year.

What I am saying is many of the same people that have repeatedly said Schremp never deserved or never "earned" a shot with the Oilers are now saying that Omark has "earned" a shot with the Oilers based on a ppg pace in the ahl after fifteen games.

Schremp played a whole season (his second) in the ahl as a 21yr old (three yrs younger than Omark no less) as a ppg player 76 pts in 78 games, yet he never "earned" a shot. Hilarious.

People are still slagging on Schremp even though he is playing in the nhl right now.

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11-08-2010, 09:32 AM
  #50
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So any new news on Horcoff? I mean is this something that lands him on the IR or are we going to be forced to go with Jones-Stortini-Macintyre?

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