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Gordon's days numbered?

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11-09-2010, 11:42 AM
  #51
redbull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
Too often when a team struggles and gives up a lot of goals, people automatically blame the 6-man defense corps when in actuality, the issue has to do with the forwards not doing their part properly. I think that's more the issue with the Islanders than the actual 6-man defense unit.
absolutely correct in this case. The poor goaltending and terrible defensive play of the forwards (lack defensive awareness, speed, size) are directly responsible for the losses, goals against, sustained pressure by the opposition and LACK of sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Serious stuff - not fixable within the season either.

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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Just don't forget Ron Francis, someone who is being lauded as the next great up-and-coming coach.
Gordon's a well-respected coach. The hockey world sees it and he's treated that way. On Long Island, he's a scapegoat for a fraudulent owner and a GM who hasn't helped with a competitive roster.

I think the "next great coach" wouldn't take the job. Maybe Kevin Connolly would be interested now that Entourage is in its final season.

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Old
11-09-2010, 11:46 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by IslesNorway View Post
I think the Western roadtip will ultimately decide Gordons fate. More defeats and he'll be gone.
I agree, I think if we come back without a win, Gordon will be gone. I actually am a big fan of Gordon, but my biggest complaint is his reluctancy to adapt his system to injuries. Yes we have had a insane amount thus far, and I know ihs style is the run and gun style, but when we are missing our best defensemen, we need to concentrate on keeping the puck out of our net.

I hope we get out of this skid, and take 2 out of 3 on the trip, but if we come back empty handed I think Gordon may be gone

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11-09-2010, 12:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
absolutely correct in this case. The poor goaltending and terrible defensive play of the forwards (lack defensive awareness, speed, size) are directly responsible for the losses, goals against, sustained pressure by the opposition and LACK of sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Serious stuff - not fixable within the season either.



Gordon's a well-respected coach. The hockey world sees it and he's treated that way. On Long Island, he's a scapegoat for a fraudulent owner and a GM who hasn't helped with a competitive roster.

I think the "next great coach" wouldn't take the job. Maybe Kevin Connolly would be interested now that Entourage is in its final season.
Your first reply highlights lack of defensive awareness (seen since Gorton got here), speed (we lack but is vital to Jimmy System's system), goals against (odd man rushes, pinching, Overspeed related death) and our inability to give sustained pressure (our opponents have boxed us out and will continue to do so, neutering our attack).

Now the system is useless. The players stopped trying a lot more than I'd like to see - meaning the coach lost his team. Whoever respects Gorton can have him because he's lost the bench and is perhaps a victim of our Backup GM and meddling owner, but once a coach loses his bench, it's over.

So of the three most necessary upgrades, one is about to happen if we hire someone of value to coach. Next up: a new GM or a local billionaire who loves hockey and will hire a real GM!

I share your view of the GM and owner, but we have a coach coaching a roster he doesn't have and a system that is tanking and for any coach to not acknowledge he needs to address his gameplan in light of a miserable string of performances....said coach is not doing his job. He never has gone to the trap save for few instances. He rarely has his defenseman stay back to protect the lead. He's lost.

Time for old school coaching of players and an end to system coaching. To get that guy here, Snow has to lock Wang in his trunk and back the car into the East River, unfortunately.


Last edited by OlTimeHockey: 11-09-2010 at 12:35 PM.
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Old
11-09-2010, 01:57 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
absolutely correct in this case. The poor goaltending and terrible defensive play of the forwards (lack defensive awareness, speed, size) are directly responsible for the losses, goals against, sustained pressure by the opposition and LACK of sustained pressure in the offensive zone. Serious stuff - not fixable within the season either.



Gordon's a well-respected coach. The hockey world sees it and he's treated that way. On Long Island, he's a scapegoat for a fraudulent owner and a GM who hasn't helped with a competitive roster.

I think the "next great coach" wouldn't take the job. Maybe Kevin Connolly would be interested now that Entourage is in its final season.
The Destroyer of Groins was...
  • named to coach the 2008 PlanetUSA AHL All Star team on January 28, 2008 as a result of the P-Bruins owning the best record in the American Hockey League at the mid-season break.
  • awarded the 2008 Louis A. R. Pieri Memorial Award, presented to coach of the year in the American Hockey League.
  • named assistant coach to Ron Wilson for the 2009 U.S. Men's National Hockey Team by the team's general manager Brian Burke.

It seems like others think he's a good coach...

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Old
11-09-2010, 02:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan View Post
The Destroyer of Groins was...
  • named to coach the 2008 PlanetUSA AHL All Star team on January 28, 2008 as a result of the P-Bruins owning the best record in the American Hockey League at the mid-season break.
  • awarded the 2008 Louis A. R. Pieri Memorial Award, presented to coach of the year in the American Hockey League.
  • named assistant coach to Ron Wilson for the 2009 U.S. Men's National Hockey Team by the team's general manager Brian Burke.

It seems like others think he's a good coach...
if he's Canadian, does he get mentioned for Team Canada?

Steroing had a good reputation in the minors, as did Butch Goring and many other have nots.

The rep? Good for him....it'll help him land a job in the future. Right now he's awful and not putting his players in a position to succeed. I wish him luck in the future but if you're not winning, you're losing. His system just is not NHL calibre without the Soviet Red Army out there on the ice.

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11-09-2010, 03:28 PM
  #56
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There is not much else a new coach would do with this team, there is very little proven offense(lots of potential but little proven) The D is a little better but 3 of the top 6 are hurt right now. He has a goalie whom we have no idea will ever re-gain any of his prior form who he is forced to play and another goalie who is excellent but is also 41 years old. The team needs the likes of Tavares, Bailey, Comeau, Schremp etc. to be consistent NHL scoring forwards and none of them are there yet. If they are going to compete for a playoff spot this year they need to add another offensive minded forward and another NHL defenseman, i am guess the salary cap will make those types available but it is up to Snow to get them in here or this is going to be another write of year for this team.

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11-09-2010, 04:20 PM
  #57
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Its only November and I dont want to throw away the season just yet but realistically anyone who thought this team on paper was going to be remotely good was only fooling themselves. The Islanders did absolutely nothing to upgrade there offense. They got a few AHL scraps and the rest is banking on Tavares and the young guys to carry the load. It doesn't work like that!!!!

I feel bad for Scott Gordon, Like Laviolette he will succeed elsewhere and we will be left with more Charles Wang Puppets.

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Old
11-10-2010, 02:09 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
I feel bad for Steve Sterling, Like Laviolette he will succeed elsewhere and we will be left with more Charles Wang Puppets.
If I read this in 2005, I'd have the same reaction. Lavy was a big league coach one could tell right away. Gorto is an AHL coach who could be an excellent assistant coach if he's so system happy, but he's not very deep. Not versatile. Not someone I think will make it anywhere unless it's a FAST team with SKILL and enough offense and goaltending to allow for such awful defense as a gameplan.

If Gorton doesn't make it anywhere or if he does and is great.....does it matter? I still stand by our need to fire Lavy (and Lavy benefitting from a life lesson). Once you lose the room, you either change the entire team or change the coach.


Last edited by Homeland Security: 11-10-2010 at 09:37 PM. Reason: Edited QUoted user name.
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11-10-2010, 08:38 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If I read this in 2005, I'd have the same reaction. Lavy was a big league coach one could tell right away. Gorto is an AHL coach who could be an excellent assistant coach if he's so system happy, but he's not very deep. Not versatile. Not someone I think will make it anywhere unless it's a FAST team with SKILL and enough offense and goaltending to allow for such awful defense as a gameplan.

If Gorton doesn't make it anywhere or if he does and is great.....does it matter? I still stand by our need to fire Lavy (and Lavy benefitting from a life lesson). Once you lose the room, you either change the entire team or change the coach.
bingo!

I choose "A" - change the entire team

Gordon is the right TYPE of coach to work with a young team. I don't think he's lost the room by any means. I see the team working really hard, just not good enough. I think the players really care about one another and the coach, just not talented enough.

Much the same as Toronto. Ron Wilson employs a similar playing style to Gordon (I imagine that's why he chose Gordon for the USA team) but that "system" is quite the failure in the NHL. The same system works well with a talented roster (USA) vs a sub-par NHL roster (that they both share)

No coincidence they will have top 5 picks again this year (well, Boston will anyway )

Your point about being able to adapt to your roster may be a valid one. I don't know enough about the system nor the options so I won't comment. All I know is, the on-ice product is terrible in all facets of the game. Seeing all that youth and potential out there, really struggling to play the game they once starred in, is tough.

Hopefully it makes them stronger and they can overcome any confidence loss.

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11-10-2010, 08:44 AM
  #60
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Gordo is the Schremp/PAP of coaching. Too good for the minors but his strategies and coaching style aren't condusive to the NHL. Personally to me he'd make a fine assistant at this level.

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Old
11-10-2010, 12:09 PM
  #61
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The problem with getting rid of Gordon as I see it is that no reputable replacement will accept the position. Any coach that takes this job is being put in a position to fail. No top tier coach would come here right now. That's why I fear them firing Gordon only to call up Capuano, which I would consider a lateral move at best.

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11-10-2010, 01:56 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Your point about being able to adapt to your roster may be a valid one. I don't know enough about the system nor the options so I won't comment. All I know is, the on-ice product is terrible in all facets of the game. Seeing all that youth and potential out there, really struggling to play the game they once starred in, is tough.

Hopefully it makes them stronger and they can overcome any confidence loss.
All one needs to know is the aggressiveness means rushing to pinch, putting pressure on and if one does that, ask yourself:

If you were the opponent and KNEW the opponent was coming to you, don't you have time to spot your outlet and get out? Who fares better, the one rushing or the one thinking ahead?

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11-10-2010, 08:25 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If I read this in 2005, I'd have the same reaction. Lavy was a big league coach one could tell right away. Gorto is an AHL coach who could be an excellent assistant coach if he's so system happy, but he's not very deep. Not versatile. Not someone I think will make it anywhere unless it's a FAST team with SKILL and enough offense and goaltending to allow for such awful defense as a gameplan.

If Gorton doesn't make it anywhere or if he does and is great.....does it matter? I still stand by our need to fire Lavy (and Lavy benefitting from a life lesson). Once you lose the room, you either change the entire team or change the coach.
{EDITED post that was a problem}

I am glad that YOU stand by Lavy being fired.. Carolina and Philadelphia thank you!!!


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Old
11-11-2010, 06:43 PM
  #64
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If they lose another couple of games out of the next three, then I actually think that the Isles need to extend his contract or cut bait. An extension would solidify the system and send a message to the players that they need to stick to the system because it's not going away. If Snow doesn't sign him to an extension now, the message is that even the GM has doubts about the system.

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11-11-2010, 06:53 PM
  #65
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{EDITED post that was a problem}

I am glad that YOU stand by Lavy being fired.. Carolina and Philadelphia thank you!!!
hindsight is 20/20. The lockerroom problem was not Lavy, it was one Michael Peca. I saw the run and gun thing and know NOW who was probably behind that as well.

It was a good team we saw the coach lose. Gorton is no Lavy, though.

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11-12-2010, 11:44 PM
  #66
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FYI for those on the ledge, 1/5 of the season is over and with jerseys ot win we are officially in 30th. Ouch

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11-13-2010, 06:59 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by beach View Post
If they lose another couple of games out of the next three, then I actually think that the Isles need to extend his contract or cut bait. An extension would solidify the system and send a message to the players that they need to stick to the system because it's not going away. If Snow doesn't sign him to an extension now, the message is that even the GM has doubts about the system.
Seems like a good point...

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11-13-2010, 07:42 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
hindsight is 20/20. The lockerroom problem was not Lavy, it was one Michael Peca. I saw the run and gun thing and know NOW who was probably behind that as well.

It was a good team we saw the coach lose. Gorton is no Lavy, though.
I loved Lavy as coach here, but I agree that he had to go. To expand on what you said, he became too close to certain players, and I think that went a long way in causing the schizm in the lockeroom.

I'm a firm believer that his success as HC in other cities afterward, was a direct result of what he learned here on LI.

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11-13-2010, 07:48 AM
  #69
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I think people are being way too hard on Gordon. With this lineup, it really wouldn't matter what system was in place. We've got TWO legitimate top six forwards people.... TWO, and only one of them is (barely) old enough to buy beer.

This combined with the horror show that is Rick DiPietro, injuries to Streit/Okposo/Mac and IMHO, the absolute WORST schedule in the NHL to date....

This team has flaws all around, top to bottom... Gordon included. He's probably the least of this teams problems right now though, and lets face it.... who the hell would replace him anyway.

The devil you know..... you know?

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11-13-2010, 11:29 AM
  #70
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I think Gordon has shown signs of being a great coach and if he gets fired it won't be because of his coaching but a need for change. He will lead the Boston Bruins to the Stanley Cup, they will fire Jillien and bring in Gordon and he will get that long overdue cup to the Beantown.

As for replacement, it would be Chynoweth for now, and maybe Weight becomes the asst coach. Gets Weight off the ice which is good. When they canned that awful Stirling they moved their defense coach to head coach in Brad Shaw, who was pretty bad.

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Old
11-13-2010, 11:36 AM
  #71
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You can only fault Gordon so much. His lineup is just atrocious. I am not th biggest Gordon fan, but sometimes as a coach there is only so much you can do. he can't go out there and help the guys hit the ****ing net or score a ****ing goal, or stay in the ****ing net and make a save. Sorry, thats on the players.

I have played and coached and as a coach you are helpless to what the guys do on the ice/field. You can teach them and give them options and advice, but ultimatley its the players job to execute. The isles are not executing right now, and I think it has to do more with a lack of talent than lack of good coaching. JMO.

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11-13-2010, 11:49 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by OhNoItsComeau57 View Post
FYI for those on the ledge, 1/5 of the season is over and with jerseys ot win we are officially in 30th. Ouch
Let's talk 2011 draft class!

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Old
11-14-2010, 05:57 AM
  #73
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Let's talk 2011 draft class!
Watching last night's game, that thought crossed my mind too.

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Old
11-14-2010, 07:20 AM
  #74
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Hmmm, very coach-like comments from Weight after last night's game:

"We came back with a goal on the next shift after their second goal, but to explain the rest, it's pathetic,'' Doug Weight said. "This isn't an internship. You're not racing to get a cup of coffee; you need to do other things in this job. You have to make good plays. You've not only got to work hard but you've got to execute and execute as a team.''



http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...2459471&part=0

(I only have mobile Newsday)


Last edited by beach: 11-14-2010 at 07:21 AM. Reason: added comment
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11-14-2010, 07:45 AM
  #75
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Hmmm, very coach-like comments from Weight after last night's game:

"We came back with a goal on the next shift after their second goal, but to explain the rest, it's pathetic,'' Doug Weight said. "This isn't an internship. You're not racing to get a cup of coffee; you need to do other things in this job. You have to make good plays. You've not only got to work hard but you've got to execute and execute as a team.''



http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo...2459471&part=0

(I only have mobile Newsday)
It is too bad Weight does not follow his own advice and execute

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