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Most at fault?

View Poll Results: Most at fault?
Charles Wang 47 61.04%
Garth Snow 7 9.09%
Scott Gordon 4 5.19%
the players 19 24.68%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-10-2010, 11:42 AM
  #51
Pnut
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Pnut, I'm not suggesting Snow should be fired, I like the job Snow has done in a lot of ways. The patience. The focus on the draft, the type of players being brought into the system (focus on character, leadership, hockey sense) etc.

But to say he's done a great job is completely wrong.

He's made some great moves and some questionable moves - but, the measuring stick is wins and losses, progress. To date, I haven't seen it.
I never said "snow has done a great job" i said not the greatest or best but a GOOD job (with what **** he has had to play with and was left here by Milbury/Smith) Good for drafting on character and signing character guys.....pure hockey skills or strong skaters, not so much
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He inherited a team that was probably as bad as any expansion team can be. But are we much better today?

Do we have potential to get better one day? SURE. But potential is just that. No guarantee or any expectation of one day being better.
I think we had Okposo as a prospect and that's it. We have El Nino, Hamonic, deHaan, Kostieten (sp?). Now are they Tavares level prospects? No but there are very few of them (Stamkos, Seguin and Hall) in the whole NHL. This franchise seems to be unfairly criticized by its Own fanbase for having high standards (I guess because this franchise had such low standards for a few years)
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I believe the budget is placed at "league minimum or less" - it's obvious to me based on the actions I see, regardless of what is said publicly every few months when they are gracious to grant an interview to the pathetic media they have. Thank you.
So what there are plenty of teams that actually win with a low budget. Also we need to keep $$ for when Okposo and JT are nearing RA status. why spend it on a temporary fix or another Guerin and Mr. Hillary Duff
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
The inability to balance the roster with NHL caliber players and to add skills/traits that lack in the system has been a huge failure.

This may be heavily influenced by budget but to a large extent, it's on Snow. The money spent on Schremp, Parenteau, Sim, Hilbert, Grabner may have been better spent on players who can forecheck, skate, win a battle. Things that completely lack on the roster.
What about the money spent wisely on Streit? Or Eaton? or Weight?
I guess people see the waiver wire Schremps and Grabners more than the other things......to me its much more easier to see the less quality grabs. That we in effect got for nothing. Two you mentioned were waiver wire fodder and 2 are AHL level vets (Sim and Stone Hands Hilbert) and PAP is ??
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
The fact that Sim is the best player in Bridgeport OFFENSIVELY (by a large margin) is telling. We don't have the prospect pool many of us think. The Petrovs, Niederreiters and Kabanovs of yesterday were named Figren and DiBenedetto and Joensuu. There was a time when these guys looked promising but I doubt whether we'll ever see them playing important roles on an NHL roster.
I am amazed that you know what Petrov or Kabanov or El Nino will be. Tell Snow so we can get more 2nd liners in here.
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
You don't get points for drafting and you get little more by developing.

The GMs job is to augment the roster in any way possible to get the team competitive.

I'd say Snow has done a poor job on this.

While I believe it's Wang who's not making it possible, Snow is ultimately responsible.

But Wang pays Snow, that matters.

The fans pay Wang, that doesn't seem to matter much.
We send Nino back and seem to take calculated risks on both Kirills and time will tell. This is too quick to say he has done a bad or terrible job either. Time will tell that the drafting was good ro bad. Quite possibly either one of deHaan or hamonic will be a top2 dman and any of those 3 that you mentioned or 2 "darkhorses" make it. Give it another season or 2 (forgetting how this team finishes this year)
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Originally Posted by Sammy2010 View Post
The team was at the bottom of the barrel, just where it is now.

You cannot say what another GM would have done.

What you fail to understand is that outside of JT, these kids are not so good. KO is decent, and no one is tearing it up in the minors. So eventually JT and KO can sign elsewhere, and the revolving door continues.
I cannot say what another GM would have done (or not done) right or wrong or otherwise. But you can say that Okposo and Tavares will sign elsewhere "eventually"?????
that seems hypocritical.

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Old
11-10-2010, 11:55 AM
  #52
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What a lot of Snow supporters seem to be missing is that talent does not have to be picked up only through FA, especially when those top guys supposedly dont want to sign here. As I have said before, and this is no exaggeration, look it up, the only trade Snow has made for an actual NHL players (not draft picks) since the Smyth trade is the one for Wiz.
Please explain to me how Tampa Bay was able to get Simon Gagne (we could not offer more than Matt Walker and a 4th pick? and this is just an example, I am not saying Philly would have trade him to us). How did Toronto get Kris Versteeg, how did Atlanta get Dustin Byfuglien and Andrew Ladd, and there are plenty of other examples. Any one of these guys would look better in our lineup than half of the guys there.
I am sorry but Snow supporters have no backing for their case... the team has been bottom 5 for 4 straight years, maybe 2 of these supposed wonderful prospects has come to close to proving anything yet and the GM has not come close to doing what he can to make this a better team.
At what point do we stop hearing every single year that the excuses are over, no more rebuilding talk, we expect to make the playoffs.... and actually see it HAPPEN.

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Old
11-10-2010, 12:00 PM
  #53
Sidney the Kidney
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This is just out of curiosity -- and I mean no malice or to be confrontational by it -- but how long exactly do you think is fair to wait during a "rebuild" before you see a team emerge and start to look good?

I ask this because this year's Isles team looks no better than last year's, which looked, at best, marginally better than the previous year's. Unless Wang opens his pocketbook next off-season, the team could very well look similar to this year's squad in 2011-12.

So when, exactly, will fans then start demanding Snow actually do something in trades/free agency to bolster the line up? Surely you can't believe that a rebuild will be a success by building the team exclusively through the draft?

The common examples that get thrown around when it comes to "rebuild through the draft" are teams like the Pens and Blackhawks. But keep this in mind with regards to both of those teams. Once they'd drafted their "star core" (for the Hawks that would be guys like Kane and Toews, for the Pens that would be Crosby, Malkin, Staal), it didn't take them 3 or 4 years to start being good.

The Hawks had one sub-par season after Kane and Toews made the NHL. That was in their rookie seasons. In their second season, the Hawks made the playoffs and made it to the Western Conference finals before losing to Detroit. In their third seasons, the Hawks won the Cup.

Similarly with the Pens, in Crosby's rookie season they sucked. But then in his second season (Malkin and Staal's rookie season) they were a 100+ point team and made the playoffs. In Crosby's third season (Malkin and Staal's second) they made it to the Stanley Cup finals. In Crosby's fourth season (Malkin and Staal's third) they won it all.

So what's my point, and what is the common theme? That in both those cases, they were ready to contend by, at the latest, the second season of their "core".

And that's why I ask about how long exactly fans are expecting to give Snow to rebuild. This is Tavares' second season, and Bailey and Okposo's third. They're not contenders this year. Do you believe they'll be contenders next season in Tavares' third year and Bailey and Okposo's 4th? Or the year after that?

When, exactly, does "rebuild" transform into "now is the time to add pieces"? Because if you're relying on following the Pens or Hawks model, then Snow should by now be adding veteran pieces to augment the youngsters.

And before anyone repeats that the Isles farm system was bare when Snow took over, you might also want to look at the Pens' farm system before they drafted Crosby. They were basically where the Isles were, with a couple of touted prospects in Malkin and Fleury, but the majority guys like Ryan Stone, Jonathan Filowich, Noah Welsh, Drew Fata, and Shane Endicott.


Last edited by Sidney the Kidney: 11-10-2010 at 12:06 PM.
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Old
11-10-2010, 12:02 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
This is just out of curiosity -- and I mean no malice or to be confrontational by it -- but how long exactly do you think is fair to wait during a "rebuild" before you see a team emerge and start to look good?

I ask this because this year's Isles team looks no better than last year's, which looked, at best, marginally better than the previous year's. Unless Wang opens his pocketbook next off-season, the team could very well look similar to this year's squad in 2011-12.

So when, exactly, will fans then start demanding Snow actually do something in trades/free agency to bolster the line up? Surely you can't believe that a rebuild will be a success by building the team exclusively through the draft?

The common examples that get thrown around when it comes to "rebuild through the draft" are teams like the Pens and Blackhawks. But keep this in mind with regards to both of those teams. Once they'd drafted their "star core" (for the Hawks that would be guys like Kane and Toews, for the Pens that would be Crosby, Malkin, Staal), it didn't take them 3 or 4 years to start being good.

The Hawks had one sub-par season after Kane and Toews made the NHL. That was in their rookie seasons. In their second season, the Hawks made the playoffs and made it to the Western Conference finals before losing to Detroit. In their third seasons, the Hawks won the Cup.

Similarly with the Pens, in Crosby's rookie season they sucked. But then in his second season (Malkin and Staal's rookie season) they were a 100+ point team and made the playoffs. In Crosby's third season (Malkin and Staal's second) they made it to the Stanley Cup finals. In Crosby's fourth season (Malkin and Staal's third) they won it all.

So what's my point, and what is the common theme? That in both those cases, they were ready to contend by, at the latest, the second season of their "core".

And that's why I ask about how long exactly fans are expecting to give Snow to rebuild. This is Tavares' second season, and Bailey and Okposo's third. They're not contenders this year. Do you believe they'll be contenders next season in Tavares' third year and Bailey and Okposo's 4th? Or the year after that?

When, exactly, does "rebuild" transform into "now is the time to add pieces"? Because if you're relying on following the Pens or Hawks model, then Snow should by now be adding veteran pieces to augment the youngsters.
Not every team gets lucky and drafts a Crosby and Malkin. Don't you think that helps speed up the process a bit?

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Old
11-10-2010, 12:03 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
This is just out of curiosity -- and I mean no malice or to be confrontational by it -- but how long exactly do you think is fair to wait during a "rebuild" before you see a team emerge and start to look good?

I ask this because this year's Isles team looks no better than last year's, which looked, at best, marginally better than the previous year's. Unless Wang opens his pocketbook next off-season, the team could very well look similar to this year's squad in 2011-12.

So when, exactly, will fans then start demanding Snow actually do something in trades/free agency to bolster the line up? Surely you can't believe that a rebuild will be a success by building the team exclusively through the draft?

The common examples that get thrown around when it comes to "rebuild through the draft" are teams like the Pens and Blackhawks. But keep this in mind with regards to both of those teams. Once they'd drafted their "star core" (for the Hawks that would be guys like Kane and Toews, for the Pens that would be Crosby, Malkin, Staal), it didn't take them 3 or 4 years to start being good.

The Hawks had one sub-par season after Kane and Toews made the NHL. That was in their rookie seasons. In their second season, the Hawks made the playoffs and made it to the Western Conference finals before losing to Detroit. In their third seasons, the Hawks won the Cup.

Similarly with the Pens, in Crosby's rookie season they sucked. But then in his second season (Malkin and Staal's rookie season) they were a 100+ point team and made the playoffs. In Crosby's third season (Malkin and Staal's second) they made it to the Stanley Cup finals. In Crosby's fourth season (Malkin and Staal's third) they won it all.

So what's my point, and what is the common theme? That in both those cases, they were ready to contend by, at the latest, the second season of their "core".

And that's why I ask about how long exactly fans are expecting to give Snow to rebuild. This is Tavares' second season, and Bailey and Okposo's third. They're not contenders this year. Do you believe they'll be contenders next season in Tavares' third year and Bailey and Okposo's 4th? Or the year after that?

When, exactly, does "rebuild" transform into "now is the time to add pieces"? Because if you're relying on following the Pens or Hawks model, then Snow should by now be adding veteran pieces to augment the youngsters.
The problem with this rebuild is that Snowang have not put any vets of value to play with the youngsters. This rebuild would've been fine if they actually got off their ***** and did that. Have a winger to play with JT and someone who could play 2nd/3rd line effectively would've gone a long way with this team.

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Old
11-10-2010, 12:10 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Isles Fan View Post
Not every team gets lucky and drafts a Crosby and Malkin. Don't you think that helps speed up the process a bit?
So then ignore my Pens example and focus on the Blackhawks. Same question applies, since the Blackhawks' rebuild followed closely to the Pens (ie. they were already contenders in Kane and Toews' second season).

Regardless, you didn't answer my question. Which is, when exactly will it get to the point where you believe Snow should start doing something to augment the youngsters, and when should the Isles be considered, at the very least, playoff competitive year after year?

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11-10-2010, 12:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
So then ignore my Pens example and focus on the Blackhawks. Same question applies, since the Blackhawks' rebuild followed closely to the Pens (ie. they were already contenders in Kane and Toews' second season).

Regardless, you didn't answer my question. Which is, when exactly will it get to the point where you believe Snow should start doing something to augment the youngsters, and when should the Isles be considered, at the very least, playoff competitive year after year?
From the moment Tavares was drafted he should've been looking for players to put with him as well as supply secondary scoring. Also another defensemen as well. This team should've been fighting for a playoff spot this whole year if that was done(not saying they would make it).

Snowang are happy sitting on their hands till they deem these youngsters worthy and then trying to sign free agents/trades. And by then JT, Bailey, Okposo, ect won't want to be here.

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11-10-2010, 01:24 PM
  #58
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Exactly. You put your prized assets in a position to make them pay dividends.....or you drafted a real nice kid you're not gonna do anything with (but the team signing him to an offer sheet or as a UFA will).

The pluses are Streit and Rolo. Moulson and Weight were stabs, as were about every other fail we have.

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11-10-2010, 01:26 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
So then ignore my Pens example and focus on the Blackhawks. Same question applies, since the Blackhawks' rebuild followed closely to the Pens (ie. they were already contenders in Kane and Toews' second season).

Regardless, you didn't answer my question. Which is, when exactly will it get to the point where you believe Snow should start doing something to augment the youngsters, and when should the Isles be considered, at the very least, playoff competitive year after year?
You are 150% correct Sid.

People on this board are blinded by the thought of prospects and bringing in guys like Eaton and Wisniewski while completely ignoring the big picture here. The Islanders said they were "ready." When you go to the Coliseum, the opening video is all about training and it being "our time" and "we're ready." Ready for what? Another top-5? Because that's where we're headed this year AND next year if there are no improvements to this club.

A lineup of:

Moulson-Tavares-PA Parenteau/Okposo
Comeau-Bailey-Grabner
Martin-Nielsen-Hunter
Sim/Weight-Konopka/Schremp-Gillies

Is not enough. It's not no matter how you spin it. The Islanders will never win anything with that lineup. You need veteran support, even for 1-2 years. You need it.



...You're counting on John Tavares to put the Islanders on his back and move mountains. How can you say Snow is doing a good job? He's had pluses, don't get me wrong...but, I agree 150% with Sid. Echoes my sentiments exactly.

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11-10-2010, 09:35 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
Where was this team when he took over?? Snow had no minor league system filled with players or a franchise player.
First of all, it's pointless to get personal-we can discuss the issues, and voice our opinions. But when you resort to going personally-you really dilute your argument

Second of all: The Islanders were a playoff team 3/4 times in the last 4 seasons before Snow took over. They were a playoff team the first year he was here too, and had good pieces to worth with. Yashin and Dipietro (at the time) were franchise players-like them or not. The team also had players like Satan, and Zhitnik. By the end of the year Poti, Smyth, Kozlov, Zednik, and more were on the team. There is NO way this team is worse than the team they're icing today. Snow only labeled the team as a "rebuild" after he failed to keep many/most of those players (or Smyth wouldn't have been his main objective).

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No we are missing our top dman in Streit and a top 4 in MacDonald and you don't think we wouldn't be better? Their injuries do count for something.

What a pity YOU are the one equating a 7 game losing streak with a aweful season. We are evening out. The Isles still have a chance at a playoff spot. You are the one making that connection, it dosent mean its true. In fact it is a fallacious argument because your premises don't prove your conclusions
Injuries happen to every team-the good teams are deep enough to work around it-the Islanders aren't. It's an excuse that quite frankly doesn't belong in professional sports whatsoever. Also the Islanders haven't been in playoff condition since Dipietro got hurt in that all-star game (and that was only because of him). There's no reason to believe they'll make a playoff run.

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You are wrong because Snow DID improve the d (and therefore consistently did address a big need/problem of the team last off-season) . If you don't think that Eaton and Wis are an upgrade from Sutton and Meyer (which is really the case, we got rid of Sutton at the trade deadline and Meyer was not resigned), then i don't think we will ever see eye to eye.
Wiz has 1 point, and is -12 even strength! That's is pitiful. Wiz isn't that good, and no he's NOT an upgrade over Sutton. Eaton has a whooping 0 points (total), and isn't that great in his own zone. sorry-once again no upgrade

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Progress? We have improved from worst to 5th worse and we will be probably 10th worse or better this season but you want the SC now!!!!!!!!!
Obviously I NEVER stated I expected a cup (or even to make the playoffs). I said some flashes would be nice. Don't twist my words out of context. And if finishing 5th last in the NHL is an accomplishment-those are some pretty low standards.

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Old
11-10-2010, 10:52 PM
  #61
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Um..I voted 'the fans.'

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11-11-2010, 12:12 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Pnut View Post

I cannot say what another GM would have done (or not done) right or wrong or otherwise. But you can say that Okposo and Tavares will sign elsewhere "eventually"?????
that seems hypocritical.
Why would they stay on this awful team? Serious, stop with the denial and even with them they are not even close to being a contender.

BTW, they are in last place. Great improvement.


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11-11-2010, 12:37 AM
  #63
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Um..I voted 'the fans.'
I kind of agree with you, people here are ridiculous, Snow says he has money to spend, but my God what is he supposed to say: "my god damn owner is losing 20M a year and he's told me until we get the Arena situation handled, your gonna have to sell me on every acquisition."

The fact is Snows hands are tied, and Wang has Spent plenty over the years only to be fed lies by Hempstead Township, Public records indicate hes lost almost 150M in Accounting Losses over the time he's owned the franchise, even if you deem 2/3rds of that as merely accounting fluffery its still a considerable amount.

The rebuild isnt Ideal, granted but until There is the prospect of some hope of a return on investment your not going to see any unnecessary expenditures and if fans cant understand that this will lead to a less than ideal rebuilding process, then the fault is on the fans.

Snow can only do what he's permitted to do, same with Gordon. Ive yet to see anyone make filet mignon from peanut buttter and Jelly and it seems like our fans expect that. I bet most of us say things on our jobs because its what we're expected to say, I know I had to at the IRS, and if I didnt like it I was free to find another job.

common sense people, Snow and Gordon can only do as they are permitted and if you expect otherwise the blame is totally on you, remember Roy Boe, The Millsteins, John Spano, The ownership can and has been worse. so get some perspective. many of our fans are just jealous of Rangers fans and are chicken littles who have no idea of how close we were to losing this franchise to Portland before Wang showed up.

So yes clueless fans should be an option

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11-11-2010, 08:46 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
This is just out of curiosity -- and I mean no malice or to be confrontational by it -- but how long exactly do you think is fair to wait during a "rebuild" before you see a team emerge and start to look good?

I ask this because this year's Isles team looks no better than last year's, which looked, at best, marginally better than the previous year's. Unless Wang opens his pocketbook next off-season, the team could very well look similar to this year's squad in 2011-12.
Not aimed at you Mr. S the Kid, but people were raving on this team when they were 4-1-2 now we are 4-9-2 and the naysayers are all out in full force. We are 15 games into a season and people are panicking
Marginally? Well with no Okposo and Streit they were bound to look bad. Bad for a 8 game losing streak? Who could have predicted that?
Well once you after missing a top line forward and your #1 dman what do people expect?
SO did improve this team and if I am the only one who thinks Wis and Eaton and Jucina are better than Sutton and Meyer and Gervais getting top 6 minutes, I don't care.
I did not see the games before last nights game and I saw from the 2nd half of the 1st period last night and they looked better, than I am sure what you guys saw the previous (7) games. (I didnt see most before last night) I saw some turnovers last night from Motteu and Eaton but they seemed ok. They WILL struggle this year if Okposo/Streit are out. Struggle this bad??!?!!? Who could have seen it? But it would also be ignorant for any fan to not think there wont be some bumps for any NHL team during the season, let alone a team missing 2 top players.
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
So when, exactly, will fans then start demanding Snow actually do something in trades/free agency to bolster the line up? Surely you can't believe that a rebuild will be a success by building the team exclusively through the draft?
Lord knows i am not a big Snow fan, I do not see that we are only building through the draft. We got Streit and went after Paul Martin hard. We have tried other big name/big producer FA's, and failed. He traded a pick for Wis and if we haven't had him (James "were off to See the Wiz-ard of Isles"niewski) this team would REALLY be hurting, I believe we would be worse off than where we are now. Worse than 4-9-2. Snow was right on that trade/move. Snow was right on Streit, a guy that wanted to be only a dman and Snow gave him that and a chance to be a top pairing guy. I don't believe that we should only be drafting and drafting, and thank God Snow doesn't either.
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
So what's my point, and what is the common theme? That in both those cases, they were ready to contend by, at the latest, the second season of their "core".
I am willing to say that Toews and Kane > Tavares and Okposo
I am also willing to say Malkin and Crosby are > those two also. There have also been injuries to JT last season and Kyle this one. (and last year too.) We all as Isles fans hope they rbound but Snow nor Wang can make a mans body heal faster just as much as they can't get a once in a generation guy like Crosby. Tavares might take longer but I don't think he cant be in a 2nd or 3rd tier best player in this league (here on the Islanders)
1st level - Crosby and Ovy
2nd level - Malkin and Stamkos and Toews and Kane
3rd level - Tavares and Hall

Thats fine with me. If Tavares turns into Pierre Turgeon the 2nd, I won't complain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
When, exactly, does "rebuild" transform into "now is the time to add pieces"? Because if you're relying on following the Pens or Hawks model, then Snow should by now be adding veteran pieces to augment the youngsters.
Just because we didn't add all-star FA's doesn't mean they cant produce nor be top players that can also mentor or youth when Weight is gone. Hunter and DP and Wis and Eaton and Streit can be those guys when Weight is gone. Pieces that take us to the next level are tough to get. especially since we (the Isles) have nothing to trade for them. Plus when these guys become FA's we have no Ace in the hole Yet. Tavares will be soon be that ace, but not yet, adding that DP is no longer a franchise player.
We have a bad building and an uncertain future (I do know the Pens did too but that was settled quickly). I don't know if you know Nassau county, or more importantly Town of Hempstead pols, but nothing is easy
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
And before anyone repeats that the Isles farm system was bare when Snow took over, you might also want to look at the Pens' farm system before they drafted Crosby. They were basically where the Isles were, with a couple of touted prospects in Malkin and Fleury, but the majority guys like Ryan Stone, Jonathan Filowich, Noah Welsh, Drew Fata, and Shane Endicott.
Hey Our top 2 prospects are dman and they take longer. El Nino wasn't ready so he was sent down. Id rather have a kid learn away from the NHL ice. All teams are different, not all teams follow the same winning plan.....and how could the Isles? Their situation is different than most NHL teams.

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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
First of all, it's pointless to get personal-we can discuss the issues, and voice our opinions. But when you resort to going personally-you really dilute your argument

Second of all: The Islanders were a playoff team 3/4 times in the last 4 seasons before Snow took over. They were a playoff team the first year he was here too, and had good pieces to worth with. Yashin and Dipietro (at the time) were franchise players-like them or not. The team also had players like Satan, and Zhitnik. By the end of the year Poti, Smyth, Kozlov, Zednik, and more were on the team. There is NO way this team is worse than the team they're icing today. Snow only labeled the team as a "rebuild" after he failed to keep many/most of those players (or Smyth wouldn't have been his main objective).



Injuries happen to every team-the good teams are deep enough to work around it-the Islanders aren't. It's an excuse that quite frankly doesn't belong in professional sports whatsoever. Also the Islanders haven't been in playoff condition since Dipietro got hurt in that all-star game (and that was only because of him). There's no reason to believe they'll make a playoff run.



Wiz has 1 point, and is -12 even strength! That's is pitiful. Wiz isn't that good, and no he's NOT an upgrade over Sutton. Eaton has a whooping 0 points (total), and isn't that great in his own zone. sorry-once again no upgrade



Obviously I NEVER stated I expected a cup (or even to make the playoffs). I said some flashes would be nice. Don't twist my words out of context. And if finishing 5th last in the NHL is an accomplishment-those are some pretty low standards.
+/- means zilch.
I never said you expected a cup.
Injuries do happen, and I am certainly no DP fan but the old dp would have had better games this season. We will never have that guy back. So having him back in old form this team wins 2 more games, IMHO. I didn't say 5th was acceptable, I said they will be better (my opinion) this season, form 1st to 5th to better, but if I am wrong belittle me. The season is no where near the end of the season. Everyone should have a little more patience (my opinion)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2010 View Post
Why would they stay on this awful team? Serious, stop with the denial and even with them they are not even close to being a contender.

BTW, they are in last place. Great improvement.
Who says they wont still make the playoffs? Who says they wont be a contender CONSISTANTLY this year or next? Who knows what they are thinking? Just because you or ANYBODY else thinks they will bolt, does not mean they will..........especially without a thread of circumstantial evidence from anybody here.

,
2cent aka Pnut


Last edited by Pnut: 11-11-2010 at 10:02 AM.
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11-11-2010, 08:57 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnut View Post

WHo says they wont still make the playoffs? Who says they wont be a contender CONSISTANTLY this year or next?

,
2cent aka Pnut
They are horrible, and even worse 5 on 5. The evidence is that their minor league players are not tearing it up either.

Even with JT and KO they are a bottom of the barrel team.

A contender this year?


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11-11-2010, 10:10 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2010 View Post
They are horrible, and even worse 5 on 5. The evidence is that their minor league players are not tearing it up either.

Even with JT and KO they are a bottom of the barrel team.

A contender this year?
That makes zero logical sense, on top of it being false

You are saying
(Evidence or Premise)
is the minor league players stink
Your conclusion
Therefore the NHL team is horrible even strength

Something that makes more sense logically is like
Premise:
Scott Gordon puts the wrong guys out on the PK and PP
Conclusion
They are being used too much on the PK/PP so therefore they are also overworked on even strength making the whole team horrible on even strength.

Hey how do you or anybody here (not attacking you Sammy) that they would still "stink" with KO, JT and MS?
Where's the proof?

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11-11-2010, 10:12 AM
  #67
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Follow the trail up

Wang fired a legitimate GM after a couple weeks on the job and promoted

Snow, the backup goaltender who hired

Gordon and assembled the rest of the team/players.


If you don't like the players or coach, look who hired them (Snow). Then understand how he got the job in the first place! I've been saying it for years and years, Wang is a cancer to this team. Any competent owner would have worked out a deal with Queens by now..... this guy is all about his land grab, don't be fooled.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that I think Snow and Gordon have done an okay job. Not GREAT, but okay.

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11-11-2010, 11:53 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
I kind of agree with you, people here are ridiculous, Snow says he has money to spend, but my God what is he supposed to say: "my god damn owner is losing 20M a year and he's told me until we get the Arena situation handled, your gonna have to sell me on every acquisition."

The fact is Snows hands are tied, and Wang has Spent plenty over the years only to be fed lies by Hempstead Township, Public records indicate hes lost almost 150M in Accounting Losses over the time he's owned the franchise, even if you deem 2/3rds of that as merely accounting fluffery its still a considerable amount.

The rebuild isnt Ideal, granted but until There is the prospect of some hope of a return on investment your not going to see any unnecessary expenditures and if fans cant understand that this will lead to a less than ideal rebuilding process, then the fault is on the fans.

Snow can only do what he's permitted to do, same with Gordon. Ive yet to see anyone make filet mignon from peanut buttter and Jelly and it seems like our fans expect that. I bet most of us say things on our jobs because its what we're expected to say, I know I had to at the IRS, and if I didnt like it I was free to find another job.

common sense people, Snow and Gordon can only do as they are permitted and if you expect otherwise the blame is totally on you, remember Roy Boe, The Millsteins, John Spano, The ownership can and has been worse. so get some perspective. many of our fans are just jealous of Rangers fans and are chicken littles who have no idea of how close we were to losing this franchise to Portland before Wang showed up.

So yes clueless fans should be an option
So are you in Isles marketing or what? Wang's losses have gone down over the past few years and he IS NOT losing $20M a year. Those are Kool Aid numbers. This year he will make a profit once the Forbes list comes out.

Now when do we acknowledge that ToH did their job; it sucks, but the Town thought it was TOO MUCH and negotiated a scaled down project to make Wangbucks. Not good enough, oh well.

So Wang makes ALL Coliseum revenue, with concert and hockey events as well as circus and whatnot events.....so he shouldn't spend a dime (except on a Home Depot job renovation of the lockerroom) on the team (READ: FANBASE!) and he should hike ticket prices up.

Good. Defend it, by all means and you'll be one of 1,000 fans who will pay for this.


Now Wang only got interested when D'Amato came back, which was during a MEETING WES WESSLEY CALLED GUTKOWSKI TO TO HASH OUT AN AGREEMENT.

Gutkowski bowed out and Wang turned down the offer D'Amato made. Wessley, SMG bigwig, eventually caved and brought Gutkowski back into the fold to get something done so as to NOT lose revenue. Wang came at the perfect time. If Wang did not come, Gutkowski is our owner with Koppelman and their billions (Koppelman's EMI would go on to make a vast fortune two years later).

The Portland line is, as I've said ad nauseum, an outright lie by apologists such as yourself to edify the owner of this team which some stop at nothing to do.

As fans, what happens in his IRA or board room or yacht matters not one bit. He can't parlay threats of moving into a strongarm tactic to add urban sprawl the ToH hinted at for years would not pass muster? Tough luck. He loses and wates our precious time and grows apathy in the fanbase like he's doing this year yet again.

What matters is that a team owner hires THE BEST PEOPLE.

Fans pay for a service and it's not being delivered as billed because a Corporate Criminal who decieved his own shareholders with an accounting scam is decieving his fanbase with a PLAN led by an inadequate goalie named GM and a minor league coach whose system is failing in the NHL and AHL as well.


So should we root for the Rangers in your book or does the team come before the owner's interests? I've been following the team for so long I can't believe I got it wrong. Where are ownership stats located? I wanna get this right.

Look! Philly just went into first place thanks to unamortized appreciation allowances! Wow I didn't see that coming. Wang's asset distribution is lagging behind Dolan's this past month.

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11-11-2010, 12:15 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
That makes zero logical sense, on top of it being false

Hey how do you or anybody here (not attacking you Sammy) that they would still "stink" with KO, JT and MS?
Where's the proof?

Where is the proof? Man, are you serious? what about last season, when we finished worst 5 in the league with all of those guys?

Seriously, you must be Garth Snow or someone from Isles management, because all you do is keep talking about great everything is. You do realize the Isles just lost their eighth straight game without a point for the first time in 13 years.... yes, 13 YEARS.... and that is considering how bad this franchise has been for 25 years. Where do u see all this improvement and rosy outlook?

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11-11-2010, 12:32 PM
  #70
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Before the draft, I had really hoped for two proven veteran scorers being added.

As the summer went on, I felt one would be enough.

We got Parenteau.

At the same time, I'm not sure that a Ponikarovsky (for example) would be doing all to much to change what's going on right now.

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11-11-2010, 12:46 PM
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We got Wiz to help, but without a defense first system, he's useless as his points don't make up for our porous defense. The "snipers" and "speedsters" are useless as well if we're always caught on rushes.

Do these guys look better under Nolan, I ask? I would wager "significantly."

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11-11-2010, 12:47 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
So are you in Isles marketing or what? Wang's losses have gone down over the past few years and he IS NOT losing $20M a year. Those are Kool Aid numbers. This year he will make a profit once the Forbes list comes out.



The Portland line is, as I've said ad nauseum, an outright lie by apologists such as yourself to edify the owner of this team which some stop at nothing to do.
so youre saying Paul Allen was a liar? its funny but Paul Allen was approached by Bettman to buy the Coyotes as well. since there has been a pattern unlike you, the evidence seems entirely credible to me, and no Wang isnt losing 20M a year now, but only because he has scaled back.

but hey its not your money right? Id rather have a team and hang on til 2015 that not have one thank you......

for your edification

"With rumors that Howard Milstein was looking to sell the Islanders to the first bidder, and that NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman was considering software billionaire Paul Allen as a prospective owner, Charles Wang jumped in the bidding along with Sanjay Kumar with money backed by Long Island software giant Computer Associates, Inc. (CA). They bought the Islanders for $190 million."

Owner-History

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11-11-2010, 12:59 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isles_Guy View Post
so youre saying Paul Allen was a liar? its funny but Paul Allen was approached by Bettman to buy the Coyotes as well. since there has been a pattern unlike you, the evidence seems entirely credible to me, and no Wang isnt losing 20M a year now, but only because he has scaled back.

but hey its not your money right? Id rather have a team and hang on til 2015 that not have one thank you......

for your edification

"With rumors that Howard Milstein was looking to sell the Islanders to the first bidder, and that NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman was considering software billionaire Paul Allen as a prospective owner, Charles Wang jumped in the bidding along with Sanjay Kumar with money backed by Long Island software giant Computer Associates, Inc. (CA). They bought the Islanders for $190 million."

Owner-History
I remember it well....the scenario was scoffed at as much as feared. Gutkowski had partners lined up and was ready to disclose ALL partners once the SMG deal was finished. Allen was a pipedream; the BG/TK bid was reality and about to come to fruiting. They were going to finish the SMG deal after MUCH turmoil.

But hey, Allen fits the "Wang saved us like a Baby Jesus" theme better

It wasn't ever going to happen with Gutkowski involved. The local guy had the inside track and the funds. You might as well list Quebec and Winnipeg with Allen.

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11-11-2010, 01:15 PM
  #74
Chapin Landvogt
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One thing I wonder about:
What do the players feel about the regular line-juggling?

I mean really, I don't think we've seen one line play just about every shift together over a 3-game span.

Obviously we see lots of different line combinations following a PP or PK, but there really is an incredible, incredible amount of line-juggling.

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11-11-2010, 01:27 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
I remember it well....the scenario was scoffed at as much as feared. Gutkowski had partners lined up and was ready to disclose ALL partners once the SMG deal was finished. Allen was a pipedream; the BG/TK bid was reality and about to come to fruiting. They were going to finish the SMG deal after MUCH turmoil.

But hey, Allen fits the "Wang saved us like a Baby Jesus" theme better

It wasn't ever going to happen with Gutkowski involved. The local guy had the inside track and the funds. You might as well list Quebec and Winnipeg with Allen.
Youre right about Gutkowski, he wasnt going to happen because SMG is a league powerhouse. SMG is an arm of comcast-spectacor who own the flyers and run the majority of NHL arenas. which also owns Versus the NHL tv network.

Gutkowski had as much chance of getting this team as Hugh Heffner has of being the pope, Gutkowski's entire bid was based on getting rid of SMG and that was never going to happen. They pretty much run the league

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