Prospect Info: Question regarding how fans feel regarding Oiler size?

[Oilfan66]

So im just wondering how many fans agree with me that Edmonton Oilers REALLY need to add "size" to the equation when drafting a player from now on?

I honestly think one of the biggest issues that have been plagueing the Oilers for the last decade is team size and grit.

Really the ONLY time I feel the team had any grit at all was the Pronger year that we made run for cup, but I suspect that had far more to do with Pronger being a true blue leader then Oilers over all team grit because many of those players that had grit when Pronger was here became ultra soft and fragile after he left.

I really think that from now on Oilers should only draft (outside first round where you take most talented first and formost) players that 6'1", 220 lbs (or projected to be anyways) or taller and heavier when drafting any players.

I hate watching Oilers play teams like Anaheim and Sharks and Philly and even Calgary because they get pushed around and beaten up for the most part because they lack size and ability to stand up for themself. I mean, we all cheer when Sam Gagner gets into it with someone else but we all know if Sam was taller and heavier, people wouldnt be stepping up to take him on.

So what you think? Size important dimension lacking on this team or just a over blown stat media uses to create controversy ?

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Thats what they did this summer. At the draft and in free agency. That said if you only worry about getting big guys your going to pass on some talented players in the later round. Kind of a toss up. You draft by need but you also have to draft by skill. You can't take a big guy over a smaller player who is head and shoulder better even later in the draft.

[Spawn]

BPA regardless of if its 1st round or 7th round and regardless of size.

The Oilers have made the "draft for size" mistake many times in the past. The most obvious example being Pouliot instead of Parise.

[Oilfan66]

Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay

Thats what they did this summer. At the draft and in free agency. That said if you only worry about getting big guys your going to pass on some talented players in the later round. Kind of a toss up. You draft by need but you also have to draft by skill. You can't take a big guy over a smaller player who is head and shoulder better even later in the draft.

Thats why I say after 1st round.

2nd and later are all ?s anyways. It never a sure thing the player will pan out anyways outside the early start of draft (and even there you occationally get burned by under producing player).

[WilliamRanford]

Originally Posted by Oilfan66

So im just wondering how many fans agree with me that Edmonton Oilers REALLY need to add "size" to the equation when drafting a player from now on?

I honestly think one of the biggest issues that have been plagueing the Oilers for the last decade is team size and grit.

Really the ONLY time I feel the team had any grit at all was the Pronger year that we made run for cup, but I suspect that had far more to do with Pronger being a true blue leader then Oilers over all team grit because many of those players that had grit when Pronger was here became ultra soft and fragile after he left.

I really think that from now on Oilers should only draft (outside first round where you take most talented first and formost) players that 6'1", 220 lbs (or projected to be anyways) or taller and heavier when drafting any players.

I hate watching Oilers play teams like Anaheim and Sharks and Philly and even Calgary because they get pushed around and beaten up for the most part because they lack size and ability to stand up for themself. I mean, we all cheer when Sam Gagner gets into it with someone else but we all know if Sam was taller and heavier, people wouldnt be stepping up to take him on.

So what you think? Size important dimension lacking on this team or just a over blown stat media uses to create controversy ?

I think they've starting drafting some players with size, and some of our future stars are above average height, so I think it'll rectify over time.

Btw - just some tips for readability -- you used the word 'the' only three times in that paragraph, it's a little hard to follow...

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Originally Posted by Oilfan66

Thats why I say after 1st round.

2nd and later are all ?s anyways. It never a sure thing the player will pan out anyways outside the early start of draft (and even there you occationally get burned by under producing player).

All the same the oilers are doing that. Martindale, Hamilton, Marincin the oilers took some size. I still think even later in the draft you have to take the BPA or who has the most upside. I sort of agree in a way though. You can't draft all smurfs but theres times where theres a gem in the late rounds that you have to grab and that guy might not be the biggest.

[Jephman]

I think size is overrated. All things being equal, yes size is important, however when that is your main focus it can be a bad thing (Pouliot over Parise for example).

Look at Dustin Penner, 6'4", 245 lbs. He adds almost no grit to the team.

[Oilfan66]

Originally Posted by Spawn

BPA regardless of if its 1st round or 7th round and regardless of size.

The Oilers have made the "draft for size" mistake many times in the past. The most obvious example being Pouliot instead of Parise.

??? That was numbers first for that draft.

Pouliot was Crosby linemate and there for looked WAY BETTER then he really was.

Pouliot was not drafted for his size if memory serves me right.

Besides, just looked and Pouliot was drafted by Minn in 2005.
Our draft picks that year were:
Coglianno in 1st (small)
and
Chorney in 2nd (smallish for Defence man at 6'0"/190 lbs
and
Danny Syvret in 3rd (small at 5'11")

BTW, we also got Brule from Columbus in a trade who is small at 5"11" but at least he plays like he was 6'2" 220 lbs.

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Pouliot was not Crosbys linemate his draft year it's been said a hundred million times.

[misfit]

The size issue is by far the most overblown issue of the last 2 years.

The Oilers didn't suck last year because they're too small.
The Oilers don't suck this year because they're too small.
The Oilers aren't bad defensively because they're too small.
The penalty kill isn't last in the league because the Oilers are too small.
The Oilers don't suck at faceoffs because their centermen are too small.

Hockey is a sport, not a livestock auction.

[Dorian2]

Originally Posted by Spawn

BPA regardless of if its 1st round or 7th round and regardless of size.

The Oilers have made the "draft for size" mistake many times in the past. The most obvious example being Pouliot instead of Parise.

Another good example is Linus Omark. Wasn't he a 4th rounder. If the Oilers had gone for size, we certainly wouldn't be talking about him neither.

[Oilfan66]

Originally Posted by Dorian2

Another good example is Linus Omark. Wasn't he a 4th rounder. If the Oilers had gone for size, we certainly wouldn't be talking about him neither.

Well until he produces in the NHL, hes still only potential so dont put the cart ahead of the horse quite yet! Look at Giroux on our farm team, hes scored 110 goals in last 2 seasons in the minors but for what ever reason he cant seem to find a home on a actual NHL team.

Not saying OMark wont produce, just saying we wait till he does before saying hes a success story!

Listen, there are always the odd exception, all Im saying is all things being equal, Oilers should draft size

Got the choice between:
a 50 point man whose 5'10" 170 lbs
and
a 50 point man thats projected to be 6'2" 230lbs.

You take the bigger player.

[SephF]

If you need to add size to your line-up you do it via trades of free agency.

Drafting is BPA, always, no matter what.

[tsnTpoint]

In the later rounds if your not going for size, I would choose hockey sense over BPA. To me hockey sense is the most underrated aspect when drafting for many teams.


I remember reading an article about how Detroit was able to obtain Datsyuk and Zetterberg in late rounds. Basically it said something about how Detroit stressed "hockey sense/IQ" for their late picks.

[Grod]

Originally Posted by Oilfan66

??? That was numbers first for that draft.

Pouliot was Crosby linemate and there for looked WAY BETTER then he really was.

Pouliot was not drafted for his size if memory serves me right.

Besides, just looked and Pouliot was drafted by Minn in 2005.
Our draft picks that year were:
Coglianno in 1st (small)
and
Chorney in 2nd (smallish for Defence man at 6'0"/190 lbs
and
Danny Syvret in 3rd (small at 5'11")

BTW, we also got Brule from Columbus in a trade who is small at 5"11" but at least he plays like he was 6'2" 220 lbs.

Wow. You clearly haven't been here for long. The Pouliot selection fit the CSS, Kevin Prendregast selection criteria. That's why they picked him over Parise. They were able to sweeten the pot by adding the Jacques pick in that acquisition. Benoit Pouliot is a winger and got traded to Montreal from Minny for Latendresse last season.

Marc's stats were slightly inflated by Crosbys presence but that wasn't the very reasoning over selecting him instead of Parise. He fit the size and position mold over BPA. He was a "safe pick" and fundamentally stronger pick in our scouting agenda.

[Grod]

Originally Posted by Oilfan66

Well until he produces in the NHL, hes still only potential so dont put the cart ahead of the horse quite yet! Look at Giroux on our farm team, hes scored 110 goals in last 2 seasons in the minors but for what ever reason he cant seem to find a home on a actual NHL team.

Not saying OMark wont produce, just saying we wait till he does before saying hes a success story!

Listen, there are always the odd exception, all Im saying is all things being equal, Oilers should draft size

Got the choice between:
a 50 point man whose 5'10" 170 lbs
and
a 50 point man thats projected to be 6'2" 230lbs.

You take the bigger player.

Tell that to Ken Holland. There are a lot more variables than just stats and size.

[tsnTpoint]

Originally Posted by Grod

Wow. You clearly haven't been here for long. The Pouliot selection fit the CSS, Kevin Prendregast selection criteria. That's why they picked him over Parise. They were able to sweeten the pot by adding the Jacques pick in that acquisition. Benoit Pouliot is a winger and got traded to Montreal from Minny for Latendresse last season.

Marc's stats were slightly inflated by Crosbys presence but that wasn't the very reasoning over selecting him instead of Parise. He fit the size and position mold over BPA. He was a "safe pick" and fundamentally stronger pick in our scouting agenda.

How many times do people need to be told that Pouliot was drafted by the Oilers before Crosby played with him.

One of the main reasons Edmonton drafted Pouliot was how they liked that he was the lone bright-spot on an absolutely horrible Rimouski team.

[Spawn]

Originally Posted by Oilfan66

??? That was numbers first for that draft.

Pouliot was Crosby linemate and there for looked WAY BETTER then he really was.

Pouliot was not drafted for his size if memory serves me right.

Besides, just looked and Pouliot was drafted by Minn in 2005.
Our draft picks that year were:
Coglianno in 1st (small)
and
Chorney in 2nd (smallish for Defence man at 6'0"/190 lbs
and
Danny Syvret in 3rd (small at 5'11")

BTW, we also got Brule from Columbus in a trade who is small at 5"11" but at least he plays like he was 6'2" 220 lbs.

1. Marc Pouliot was drafted in 2003. Which was a year before Crosby played with him on the junior team. Pouliot at the time was viewed as the best player on a very bad team. They passed on Parise (traded down) because they wanted size down the middle and hoped that Pouliot at 6'1 could fill out. It wasn't solely based on size, but it was a contributing factor.

2. Benoit Pouliot, not Marc Pouliot was drafted in 2005. Benoit never played with Crosby.

I would rather have a highly skilled smaller player who fell because of his size than a an averaged skilled large player who fell because he can't skate/doesn't have good puck skills ect.

All things being equal of course you take the bigger guy. But I take skill over size every day of the week.

[Grod]

Originally Posted by tsnTpoint

How many times do people need to be told that Pouliot was drafted by the Oilers before Crosby played with him.

One of the main reasons Edmonton drafted Pouliot was how they liked that he was the lone bright-spot on an absolutely horrible Rimouski team.

They liked his all around play. His hockey sense, size and position. You're right he didn't play wing with Crosby until his final year. In which his stats did inflate. Hence why I said into didn't apply to their reasoning in selecting him.

[tsnTpoint]

Originally Posted by Grod

They liked his all around play. His hockey sense, size and position. You're right he didn't play wing with Crosby until his final year. In which his stats did inflate. Hence why I said into didn't apply to their reasoning in selecting him.

Wrong you said "very reasoning" inferring that it had some reason as to why we drafted him.

Anyways who cares honest mistake.

[Grod]

Originally Posted by tsnTpoint

Wrong you said "very reason" inferring that it had some reason as to why we drafted him.

Oh so now I'm wrong. I misused my english. I stand corrected. I apologize for the misdirected implication. Hope you're not too confused. I meant to say that it had no reasoning. This horse was beat to death this summer. Read my posts if you don't believe me. It was "Very Reasoning" so now you're wrong.

Honest mistake.

You can rag on Oilfan though. He not only made stated that Pouliot was selected for that reason solely but that his first name was Benoit.

[rigger]

If all the oilers were 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier they would not make the playoffs. The defense isn't small. The only couple players it would help would be Gagner, Eberle and maybe Brule, oh and Hemksy would be like Hossa. But the players aren't losing cause their size, maybe some battles.

[ZenOil]

Originally Posted by misfit

The size issue is by far the most overblown issue of the last 2 years.

The Oilers didn't suck last year because they're too small.
The Oilers don't suck this year because they're too small.
The Oilers aren't bad defensively because they're too small.
The penalty kill isn't last in the league because the Oilers are too small.
The Oilers don't suck at faceoffs because their centermen are too small.

Hockey is a sport, not a livestock auction.

Well put.
When I hear people harping about the importance of size, the name Gretzky always pops into my head.

[Oilfan66]

Originally Posted by Spawn

1. Marc Pouliot was drafted in 2003. Which was a year before Crosby played with him on the junior team. Pouliot at the time was viewed as the best player on a very bad team. They passed on Parise (traded down) because they wanted size down the middle and hoped that Pouliot at 6'1 could fill out. It wasn't solely based on size, but it was a contributing factor.

2. Benoit Pouliot, not Marc Pouliot was drafted in 2005. Benoit never played with Crosby.

I would rather have a highly skilled smaller player who fell because of his size than a an averaged skilled large player who fell because he can't skate/doesn't have good puck skills ect.

All things being equal of course you take the bigger guy. But I take skill over size every day of the week.

ahhhh got the Pouliots wrong
heh, I blame it on old age!!!!

Still, I said this in a different thread and ill say it in this one.

People can find a million "ONE OFF " examples to say it disproves a logic or genralization. Its the exception to rule. It doesnt prove anything.

OK, So MARK Pouliot was drafted for size (first I ever heard about it, I always heard Pouliot (either of them) were drafted for their skill and "potential") and didnt work out! BIG WHOOP! So what?

One name, Gretzky, What a Bleeping stupid responce!
Heres a name back at you MESSIER!

What have either of us proved? NOT A DAMN THING!

There will always be a good small player and a good big player for the negative nanies to single out.

Here is what I know, the Oilers up front are beat up game in and game out because THEY ARE ALL SMALL!

Who cares if the defence is big, its Hemsky and Gagner and Eberle and Brule and Coglianno and even Hall that are trying to crash into the opponents end against 6'5" monsters. Besides, you cant beat up every player that touchs your small players or you will be in the penalty box for the entire game. So you leave the small guys to their devices and we see game after game of Regher CLEANER demolishing Hemsky and Hemsky eventually getting injured cause hes to small to take the continued beating.

I mean the commentators on HNiC and on the TSN desk make running jokes about Edmontons size. They do that FOR A REASON.

Edmonton has to get bigger or its going to continue to have years like last years injury plagued season.

Do any of you computer GMs even realize that the small player is hurt more often on like a 3-1 ratio over the big player?

SIZE matters and Oilers are to small.

Tell you what, you find 12 gretzkys and make a team of them, ill find 6 Scott Stevens and 6 Mark Messiers (to keep it local) and by the 3rd game you will not be able to ice a healthy team and I will win the remaining 79 games in the season by default!

But dang it, you will look amazingly good and talented for 3 games! I bet for those 3 games you get play of the night on TSN, congrats!

Size does matter in hockey. Penner was offered crazy money because he was a POWER FORWARD. Many players can get 30/30 in a season, its not a earth shattering amount of points. Bur Penner gets more then them because HES BIG and can single handedly take over a game with his size. Same goes for Rick Nash, Shane Doan, Horton, other Boston guy. Size is in demand in this league and is rewarded.

Listen, we have a core of medium (Hall & Paajarvi) to small (Eberle, Hemsky, Gagner, & maybe OMark). What im suggesting is we draft, trade for, and fill the remaining spots with size being one of the important aspects involved.

You know who tells you size doesnt matter? Small people! Thats who. Well I watch a ton of MMA and I dont see the 170 lbs fighting the 265 lbs. There is a reason for that, so why would we expect a group of 175 -200 lbs will stand up (long term) to groups of 220+ lbs?

Common sense answer is YOU DONT! You take a mix of all. Well folks, we already have a wealth of small players! What we missing is the long term large players.

Gretzky rarely stepped on the ice with out good ol cement head in Edmonton. There was a reason for that people.

[Stiffler's Mom]

Originally Posted by misfit

The size issue is by far the most overblown issue of the last 2 years.

The Oilers didn't suck last year because they're too small.
The Oilers don't suck this year because they're too small.
The Oilers aren't bad defensively because they're too small.
The penalty kill isn't last in the league because the Oilers are too small.
The Oilers don't suck at faceoffs because their centermen are too small.

Hockey is a sport, not a livestock auction.

They suck because they are one of the softest teams in the NHL. You can't win championships without imparting some kind of physicality on the opposition. In addition, on many nights too many of the Oilers disappear because they can't handle the oppositions physicality. This is an issue that I don't see resolved for quite awhile. Not a single team in the NHL is worried about the Oiler's physicality, that's for sure.